CUUSOO Corner

Diggydoes

I'm really curious to know how all the released Cuusoo-sets gonna perform on the after-market! The Minecraft-set for example looks like it's gonna be available in limited quantities and Lego-shop exclusive.

cheshirecat

I dont think licensing causes any issues for TLG in respect to cuusoo. If they can't get it, if its too expensive or if it how against an existing license they have a ready made get out.

Cuusoo is a marketing machine, without licensed ideas it would achieve nothing and just be a hang out for existing lego fans.

atkinsar

Couldn't help but notice the run My Little Pony had last week either, nearly 3,000 votes in 1 week. Never knew there were so many bronies about, still quite a few haters spamming the comments though:

http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/11176#CommentsTab

Redbullgivesuwind

We all remember the skull police sets. Which is why I worry if lego arent careful these sets will go exactly the same way.

As for taking away the lisence themes you would have another place for lego fans to hang out. I dont think it would be. As all ready mentioned how many of those voting will actually buy it. Im doubtful and these things seem to mask the actual good sets such as the AT AT or the western modulars. And thats really my issue, that in my oppinion the good sets loose out to the flavour of the month themes.

Si_UKNZ

Personally I think Cusoo is not a bad idea, but the execution needs improving.

Also, I can't help but wonder if the designer of a model which enters production get paid any royalties for their hard work?

starfire2

I just wonder if My Little Pony gets 10,00 votes, will Lego be able to get Hasbro to agree to it? Hasbro probably won't budge. They already have Kreo

atkinsar

^ they get paid 1% of sales or profit?, not sure which.

CUUSOO is a great idea, sure it needs a bit of refinement but that's why it's still in beta. How many times over the past decades have fans wished TLG would listen to their ideas? Now that we have that outlet, with a real opportunity to get the sets made that we want, it seems to take an unfair amount of criticism IMO because people aren't seeing the sets reach 10,000 votes that they want made. To those people I say get out there and promote those sets, it really is the only way to do it, it's not enough just to give your single vote.

It seems to me that other communities have grasped the way CUUSOO works a lot quicker than the Lego community. For clarity, this is just a general comment on the way people have reacted to CUUSOO on this and other sites, and not in response to any individual.

Si_UKNZ

^ I think if it was designed to be properly browsable it would overcome a lot of the criticism. If you're directed to a page it works well (e.g. from a Halo fan forum) but if you like 'Lego' so are in the market for all of it, it's a mess to use.

atkinsar

Yes i agree the site needs some work, why not submit your ideas for improvement to Dave so he can pass them on through the ambassador forum.

princedraven

I decided to collect together some of my favourites on my latest blog posting; I'd particularly love Legoloverman's Exo Suit and Cavegod's AT-AT to get to the production stage, so if you like what you see then vote !

Love both of those and voted for both.
The Exo Suit is getting there, up to 2,170 now, but rather criminally Cavegod's AT-AT has only 62 votes!!! If people could see this in person you would see how amazing it really is! I would seriously consider selling half my collection if it meant I could get one of these, it's a masterpiece.

Si_UKNZ

^ I agree, I dont even 'do' star wars and I voted for it, plus I'd buy it too, its a great Lego model period, not just a great Lego Star Wars model.

I put down £350 as the price I'd pay but not sure that's realistic. I know he said it cost him £200 on bricklink (which is very tempting, and I for one would pay him for the plans!) but bricklink is often cheaper than TLG prices per brick.

princedraven

^ Maybe he should go it alone, because I too would pay him for the plans, I would love to build this and have it on display in my house.

drdavewatford

Love both of those and voted for both.
The Exo Suit is getting there, up to 2,170 now, but rather criminally Cavegod's AT-AT has only 62 votes!!! If people could see this in person you would see how amazing it really is! I would seriously consider selling half my collection if it meant I could get one of these, it's a masterpiece.

Nice one, Geoff - thanks for voting ! The AT-AT has only been up on the site for a few days and hence the small number of votes so far.

Per Si's comment, I also put down £350 for the price, pegging it with the UCS Millennium Falcon, but at 8,000 pieces that's probably optimistic..

cheshirecat

Redbullgivesyouwind - From TLG's stand point, if lets say the AT-AT gets over 10,000 votes and got built what have Lego gained? I'm almost certain they know that a UCS AT-AT would be a good idea, if they're not already planning one over the next 10 years I'ld be surprised and if they're not its because there would be a good reason not to. But either way, if they release it now in addition to their planned UCS releases then it would only take away from other sales, they'ld give away 1% of the money etc etc. Current lego fans using Cuusoo does little for lego beyond giving them some market information about what fans want. Its a very longwinded way of getting that.

Non lego fans or older fans being brought back into the fold through an entirely different medium (minecraft, eve, the bttf fanbase for example) is where lego can really benefit. These fan bases are huge, completely towering over the hardcore AFOL fanbase for example (the inability of us to get the western modular theme to 10,000 proves this). So even if a very small percentage, or even part of a percentage, buy one set, and then a proportion of those buy another set etc etc then its good business for Lego. These are new customers, or potential customers (a marketers dream), being brought in through a different brand (one they already love) without even that brands permission. It's a brilliant form of viral marketing where TLG does nothing and rides all over another brands fan base, using that fan base to market Lego for them.

Sure, you can say quite rightly how many of those people that voted for the eve spaceship will buy it - certainly not 10,000 (you could say the same for the western modular to be honest). But then they have gone to the trouble of following a link, registering an account and voting. Equally importantly how many of them have then looked around Cuusoo and thought wow thats a nice idea, or seen the modular western and then looked at the current modular range. How many have gone to the lego website? And remember the people that we're talking about aren't current lego fans or buyers, they're new customers - the hardest thing to get.

What happens with minecraft will be interesting. Will minecraft fans buy the set? (I think its possible, they're obsessive geeks with a lot of love for the franchise who'll possibly buy it out of loyalty as much as anything). It seems unlikely that many others will - unlike a spaceship that is still a spaceship without knowing the licence that sits behind it the minecraft set will have little to no appeal to non-minecraft fans - but anything left unsold will just end up in pick a bricks and grab bags. The question that remains for Lego will be is the loss that's presumably made on it be small enough to be counter balanced by the marketing/publicity/new customers that will now continue to buy new lego?

If a lego fans idea gets made? Will we all go out and buy it? More importantly if we do will it increase each of ours total expenditure on Lego? For all but the most hard core no - I'm sure most of us end up leaving lego on the shelves not because we don't want it but because we can't afford it / justify spending any more. If I buy the western modular then its going to mean I don't buy something else from Lego.

The upside for lego from Cuusoo isn't in providing the lego fans what they want (if anything it will just impede any medium term plans they already have in place) so much as encouraging non lego fans into (or back into) the fold.

Steve_J_OM

I supported the AT-AT, but you have to wonder how commercially viable an 8,000 piece set would be. I wonder if they would be able to bring down to par with the Millenium Falcon without too much compromise that the model would be ruined.

cheshirecat

Oops, even though my post was stupidly long, I forgot to mention one thing and can't now edit it...

There are at least two reasons why TLG get rid of ranges and sets and limit the total number of sets available: First is the often mentioned shelf space argument. Second is the less mentioned fact that the more sets/themes Lego sell at one time the fewer of each set they will sell - its simple dilution. There is an amount of money the public will spend on Lego each year and by limiting the number of sets available you increase how much is spent on each. The more they sell of each set the higher the profit will be on that set. The only way to increase the range without seeing the dilution effect is to bring in new customers. Lego fans don't do that, non-lego IP's do do that.

princedraven

Nice one, Geoff - thanks for voting ! The AT-AT has only been up on the site for a few days and hence the small number of votes so far.

Ah that explains it then, I had voted for it when he posted it a while back, but think he had some issues with the way it went online, so looks like he has re-posted, so voted again: 65 now.

princedraven

I do wonder what some people are thinking:
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/15029
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/14882
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/14761

Strangely like this one:
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/7162#

sidersdd

@cheshirecat - excellent posts. I agree with your synopsis.

CCC

^^ I think it is a case of "I made this, I am going to put it on cuusoo". That squirrel looks nice, but probably very fragile and no playability.

TheBrickLadd

Looks like the Winchester isn't going to be made. Just seen it on there Facebook page:

http://legocuusoo.posterous.com/results-of-the-lego-review-for-the-winchester

Apologies if already posted.

bricksan

I read the statement and I think they handled it well myself.

Si_UKNZ

I'm glad to be honest, it was too ugly to make a decent set. If it could have stood on it's own as a nice looking set in it's own right, it might have been a good idea, but not as it stood. The subject matter was just not attractive to start with.

Also, I agree with Lego that they shouldn't be directing kids towards films like that!

And yes, it's well worded.

cheshirecat

Looks like its been removed from the list entirely as well - to stop posting disappointment I guess.

I see they've also posted their 10,000 congrats to the eve model, and said they're moving to a quarterly jury panel timetable. I guess this means that they now expect more ideas to reach 10,000 more frequently.

princedraven

I think its a bit unfair to remove the model from the website now TBH....
It was online for months and got lots of support, was labelled as a Cuusoo model and now doesn't exist on there at all, seems a tad out of order.
Think it would have been fairer to leave it online as reached the vote count, but didn't reach the criteria to make it to retail. That way it would also assist people in judging what will and will not make it.

sidersdd

Bravo LEGO.

Now of course, to @cheshirecat's points above, this brought 10000+ people to the site, many of which probably wouldn't have come before. There are many more people exposed to what can be created with LEGO, and probably many new customers - despite the project being turned down. LEGO may actually have already made up their mind that this wasn't a project they were going to do early on, but let it ride as it continued to gain exposure.

cheshirecat

Actually I was sort of wrong - it is still there but just not showing in the supproters list. It's now an archived project. By going to it from the old brickset news link I could find it...

http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/7451

Although it looks like comments are now disabled.

@sidersdd - exactly. The only thing they need to be careful of is not turning down too many ideas, otherwise it will just turn people off lego all together. The winchester they have a good reason for, not being able to agree licensing will always be a good excuse although even too much of that could just turn people towards mass disappointment and cynicism.

Redbullgivesuwind

^Yeah but its how the fans will now react. And I garantee that we will see a massive blacklash. And I think once we see the reaction it will give a furthur gauge of how Cuusoo will go down; because if there is going to be a massive over reaction everytime they say no, then it will get dull very quickly. And it will create the opposite of what lego want bad publicity.

@cheshirecat I do agree that there may well be fans who do look at the rest of the site and go wow cool and get back into lego. However I think the Minecraft sets will be a gauge of how well that has actually happened. People are fickle and have very short memories. How many will remember that they even voted for it? What, as is the fleating nature of the internet Minecraft crashes and loses popularity? We all remember how popular myspace was and who uses that now. This would have worked better if you could submit your ideas to lego to a special email and they put the best ones out on to rebrickable and people can comment on it. It would avoid all of this.

As regards to the losing lego space. You lose space anyway. Minecraft will have to replace something so dont hold your breathe that we will see monster fighters or dinosaurs lasting as these are replaced by minecraft stuff. I would rather have good stuff than what is effectively 1x1 blocks attached together.

CCC

There is a recent comment on there - "This awesome I would pay 100 bucks for this". It just highlights the problem of non-Lego fans using cuusoo. Most voters wouldn't go near when they see the real price.

Redbullgivesuwind

Or be put off if they vote for it then can't afford it. Personally I like others on here would just pay to have the instructions for that thing. It is amazing

Bumblepants

I think we can all agree there needs to be a filter of some kind before ideas even get posted. I get frustrated navigating past all the rubbish ideas like 'Here are 10 minifigs I would like to buy all at once for cheap' or 'Crude image I rendered of something that may or may not be Lego' or 'Giant MOC Mountain that would cost $5000 if produced'

cheshirecat

On the basis that LEGO are highly unlikely to create a new mould for a Cuusoo idea I think the simple requirement is that the item should be made from actual pieces (either genuine lego or custom) and not just a cgi.

Bustin

I think Lego could have compromised and decided to build the building only.

Si_UKNZ

^^ But that would mean that 'my little pony' would never happen and surely you can't want THAT? :o)

caperberry

I don't feel LEGO would have added the invitation to design new parts if they felt new mould costs were prohibitive and had no intention to approve sets/piece designs that had new parts.

Can anyone explain for me... as moulds are so expensive, how come CMFs have so many new parts?

bricksan

With the Winchester TLG/Cussoo was damned if they do damned if they don't but if people read the statement they can't really moan as they loved the idea but due to the nature of the film it was turned down. I hope this does not have a negative effect on the whole Cuusoo project as it is something I am a fan of.

I think EVE will pass the review stage and it will be interesting to see BTTF reviewed

andhe

Wow, totally missed the EVE thing hitting 10,000 votes. Interesting to see how none of the lego sites I frequent have shown any interest in reporting on the voting on that one or it hitting 10,000 (unlike the Shaun of Dead process).

Looking at the top sets, I like the Zelda idea, mainly for the new elements it could produce. But as TLG state "We encourage you to come up with a concept for a single set that you feel best commemorates the game, and we can work from there" so unlikely we would see everything produced.

Interesting also to see some of the finer workings of cuusoo through the official comments. At 5,000 votes for the EVE thing TLG said "Typically at this stage, one of our model designers produces a concept model. Right now there are a few projects in line for one ahead of this, so we won't start right away. We'll build one once we are able though, and will keep you posted here."

Having hit 10,000 votes TLG said "From here forward, the LEGO Review will take place quarterly. The next review will be held starting in June and will include all projects that reach 10,000 between now and then. We'll update the LEGO CUUSOO blog with additional details soon." Guess they've realised that more projects than they expected may hit 10,000, and need to stall the process a bit!

bricksan

I report on a lot of Cuusoo projects @andhe . I have had Tim Courtney comment a few times on the site as well. The Cuusoo posts I did became popular so it now has a dedicated section: http://brickfanatics.co.uk/category/cuusoo/

The EVE fans swamped my site when I featured it and took it down for a while, even got an apology from CCP Mainfest one of the main EVE guys :)

atkinsar

My suggestion would be for TLG to do a feasibility review at 5,000 votes (or perhaps even earlier) and if it fails then to can the idea there and then. It would save people getting their hopes up for something that TLG will never produce.

bricksan

You have a good point, that fact it is still in BETA means they will tweak the project as things develop, such as the new quarterly review process. They do have the power to veto any project before the public sees it now as well.

andhe

My suggestion would be for TLG to do a feasibility review at 5,000 votes (or perhaps even earlier) and if it fails then to can the idea there and then. It would save people getting their hopes up for something that TLG will never produce.

That seems to be the case, with them assigning their designers to come up with a conecpt based on the idea. Don't know whether they could 'freeze' an idea/votes at this point, and re-open if it passed a feasibility review (on thematic suitability, commercial viability, cost of licensing etc). Things like BTTF or Zelda may seem great, but if TLG can't (or doesn't want to shell out for) a licence, then it's dead in the water.

princedraven

Have to also add that I am dissapointed and would have bought the Winchester.

Redbullgivesuwind

^I think that would be a good half way thing.

atkinsar

Currently the process that takes place at 5,000 votes seems to focus on concept designs rather than whether they would actually produce it. It seems to me that they wasted their time (and the time of 5,000 extra voters) when they could have spent the time doing a quick feasibility study and deciding it was a no go. This should focus on thematic content and feasibility of getting the licence, if it fails on either of those points, then can it.

cheshirecat

^Not entirely. The Lego comment about the box of storm troopers basically killed the idea dead. Bare in mind also that some of these are moving very quickly. The eve online project only started a month and a half before hitting 10,000.

cheshirecat

@caperberry

I just don't believe that Lego would take the risk of creating a new mould on a Cuusoo whim. With the minecraft set the risk is fairly small; basic pieces can easily be re routed if sets don't sell, box design is probably minimal as are instructions. Not sure how smaller run manufacturing can accommodate, but if its sold online exclusively they could attempt a more just-in-time approach than normal. With a new mould you don't have all those options.

As for the CMF's, and i'm far from an expert, but I'm guessing its got something to do with the high markup of the sets themselves, being made in china and cheap packaging all keep the cost down. The huge number of items being produced/sold helps as does the fact that many of the pieces can then be reused in later main-stream sets.

andhe

^I'd be interested to see the actual cost to produce a CMF, and whether it was the profits, or ability to reduce cost of new moulds by mass producing them that instigated the CMF range (or if the new moulds at a cheaper price are a fortunate by product). I'd guess the former, by would prefer it to be the latter.

On topic, I'm sorry to see the Winchester get rejcted, mainly for disappointment for the designer. On the other hand, I'm also glad TLG aren't just going to be forced into making every project that gets pushed to 10,000.

cheshirecat

^ It might also have been that Lego didn't have a product in the market at that price point. I know from experience that companies like to cover the widest range of price points for their products, and with the cheapest sets starting at about £5 there was a gap their for lego to fill, a gap that manages to sustain a number of toy manufacturers.

dougts

I supported the AT-AT, but you have to wonder how commercially viable an 8,000 piece set would be.

Nothing really to wonder at - 8000 is not viable at all.

on principle, I won't vote for anything that has zero feasibility as a production model. Cavegod's AT-AT is an A+, as is the light-up motorized sand crawler (easily one of the best MOCs I've ever seen), but there's really no point in pushing either on Cuusoo. LEGO would have to gut them down to such an extent that they would no longer be what we love about them.

CCC

As to CMF, I reckon they have been a great way of getting people into lego. They are pocket money cheap, they are often placed by the tills so you see them in the queue, they are addictive / collectable. You buy a few, then you buy a few sets, then you're hooked.