LEGO announces 90th anniversary 10305 Lion Knights' Castle!

Brickset.com

The spectacular 10305 Lion Knights' Castle has finally been revealed!

Containing 4514 pieces and 21 minifigures, this is easily the largest Castle set ever released and will be available from the 3rd of August. This set costs £344.99, $399.99 or €399.99.

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Source: https://brickset.com/article/78773

Phoenixio

This is going to be a trying time for AFOLs.  Castle, Classic Space, and a new modular.  Lego listened to all the demands, but will the AFOLs actually buy?  With niche projects like this, any not selling as well as expected might spell doom for its theme.  That Classic Space set is especially worrisome, with how much of a funding failure the other classic space imitation was in the Bricklink Designer Contest.  And this castle is gorgeous, but will it sell at that price?  Almost makes you miss those bigger clunkier pieces to cut down on the price, heh?

sipuss

Don't worry, speculators will fill up on them to try and sell at $1000 a few years from now.

Bumblepants

I really want it but I don't $400 want it

CCC

Phoenixio said:

This is going to be a trying time for AFOLs.  Castle, Classic Space, and a new modular.  Lego listened to all the demands, but will the AFOLs actually buy?  With niche projects like this, any not selling as well as expected might spell doom for its theme.  That Classic Space set is especially worrisome, with how much of a funding failure the other classic space imitation was in the Bricklink Designer Contest.  And this castle is gorgeous, but will it sell at that price?  Almost makes you miss those bigger clunkier pieces to cut down on the price, heh?

I doubt these are any more niche than cacti, typewriters,  globes, haunted houses, jazz musicians, ...

madforLEGO

Bumblepants said:

I really want it but I don't $400 want it

Yeah.. I think it was supposed to be $350 USD before LEGO instituted their 'hardship' increases on everything. As much as I hate the price, Ill probably get one. Either by cashing in on VIP points I have or buying it during a 2x points event... Ill justify it by the fact I bought the DareDevil and Punisher figures from BL instead of dumping 400 USD on the Bugle.

The_Rancor

There’s too much good news to absorb with these releases but I do want to add that this castle design is fantastic. The increased price is a shame but I can’t pass this by so VIP point redemption for discount it is!

lowlead

CCC said:

I doubt these are any more niche than cacti, typewriters,  globes, haunted houses, jazz musicians, ...

...a shoe.

andhe

I was excited to see what a 4000 piece castle was going to look like, but I'm starting to wonder if a 200-250 price range might have been a better choice. I like it but as @Bumblepants says, I'm not sure I £350 like it. That's a huge chunk of money and somehow doesn't feel as epic as some of the star wars offerings in a similar price bracket, or as detailed as say two modulars?

Seems a bit ironic coming from a classic castle collector/builder...

Not sure what I was expecting. If the forest hideout gwp had been available at the same time then it would have lessened the sting a bit, but it's all the more frustrating that they deliberately made them available at different times...

Is the castle a lego store exclusive? 

Redbullgivesuwind

I really like it. We finally got a castle that looks a lot more like a medieval keep than previous iterations. Although, they are leaning heavily into fantasy elements with Wizzards and nods to Monty Python. 

I am not a fan of the slope entrance I think it is meant to give an idea of the castle on a motte. day one purchase for me. 

Charmiefcb

I'd love it but space is becoming an issue now.

madforLEGO

andhe said:

I was excited to see what a 4000 piece castle was going to look like, but I'm starting to wonder if a 200-250 price range might have been a better choice. I like it but as @Bumblepants says, I'm not sure I £350 like it. That's a huge chunk of money and somehow doesn't feel as epic as some of the star wars offerings in a similar price bracket, or as detailed as say two modulars?

Seems a bit ironic coming from a classic castle collector/builder...

Not sure what I was expecting. If the forest hideout gwp had been available at the same time then it would have lessened the sting a bit, but it's all the more frustrating that they deliberately made them available at different times...

Is the castle a lego store exclusive? 

The rumor is that LEGO is going to have the #40567 Hideout GWP again in August, likely to be available when the Castle is available for purchase.

Charmiefcb said:

I'd love it but space is becoming an issue now.

No kidding, see #10497 ? But seriously, Im also running low on space again. Last time this happened I sold off all of my Castle and Classic space sets, but regretted it and slowly have been building up my collection for those themes again... Now sure what Ill do at this point. I do like the giant LEGO yellow classic style box though. Too bad it does not also come with a giant flap to show you whats in the box :-)

andhe

madforLEGO said:

andhe said:
... If the forest hideout gwp had been available at the same time then it would have lessened the sting a bit, but it's all the more frustrating that they deliberately made them available at different times...

Is the castle a lego store exclusive? 

The rumor is that LEGO is going to have the #40567 Hideout GWP again in August, likely to be available when the Castle is available for purchase. 

Yeah read that too, but not from any reputable source so think it's more wishful thinking at the moment. Would also cheese off a lot of buyers who stumped up 150 this time round just to get it. Only for lego to offer it again a month later... Especially 'hardcore' castle collectors who got the forestmen GWP and who would be buying the new castle anyway, no incentive needed.

madforLEGO

andhe said:

madforLEGO said:

andhe said:
... If the forest hideout gwp had been available at the same time then it would have lessened the sting a bit, but it's all the more frustrating that they deliberately made them available at different times...

Is the castle a lego store exclusive? 

The rumor is that LEGO is going to have the #40567 Hideout GWP again in August, likely to be available when the Castle is available for purchase. 

Yeah read that too, but not from any reputable source so think it's more wishful thinking at the moment. Would also cheese off a lot of buyers who stumped up 150 this time round just to get it. Only for lego to offer it again a month later... Especially 'hardcore' castle collectors who got the forestmen GWP and who would be buying the new castle anyway, no incentive needed.

I don't think it should cheese off anyone to be honest. Now, if they lowered the threshold price for the next run, sure I can see it. However if its the same it should not cheese anyone off IMO.  At least not as much as it will cheese off people if they do not offer it at all at the time the Castle is available. Cause lets face it, at its price, if most are committed to buying the castle, they are buying the castle, GWP or not.

The_Rancor

madforLEGO said:

andhe said:

I was excited to see what a 4000 piece castle was going to look like, but I'm starting to wonder if a 200-250 price range might have been a better choice. I like it but as @Bumblepants says, I'm not sure I £350 like it. That's a huge chunk of money and somehow doesn't feel as epic as some of the star wars offerings in a similar price bracket, or as detailed as say two modulars?

Seems a bit ironic coming from a classic castle collector/builder...

Not sure what I was expecting. If the forest hideout gwp had been available at the same time then it would have lessened the sting a bit, but it's all the more frustrating that they deliberately made them available at different times...

Is the castle a lego store exclusive? 

The rumor is that LEGO is going to have the #40567 Hideout GWP again in August, likely to be available when the Castle is available for purchase.

Handy for me then, as I’ve only made one order with the GWP right now, so I’d qualify for another one to keep sealed if this were true.

andhe

Yeah don't get me wrong, would love it if the GWP was available again as passed on it this time round as didn't want to stump up the 150. But just feel it would be an odd decision to rerelease it so soon, and it's not like people need a 'push' to buy the castle day1 from lego (unless its going to be sold elsewhere at discount later on).

pxchris

Just as an FYI - TheBrickFan is reporting on the rumor of an August re-release of the Forestmen GWP... so at least a little credibility behind it.

https://www.thebrickfan.com/lego-forest-hideout-40567-gwp-rumored-to-return-in-august/

ReesesPieces

andhe said:

But just feel it would be an odd decision to rerelease it so soon, and it's not like people need a 'push' to buy the castle day1 from lego (unless its going to be sold elsewhere at discount later on).

With the high purchase requirement and limited stock of currently available items, I think they are left with a heavier stock of the forest GWP than originall intended.  They've rereleased previous GWPs, most recently the retro taxi.  With Lego not providing a monthly calendar anymore, they can be more flexible with what GWPs they offer, which is probably why they got rid of the calendar to begin with.  Of course, this is all an assumption.  :)

CCC

The rumour about the second availability was before it was released so chances are it was planned. Isn't it currently out of stock for the US too?

ReesesPieces

Looks like the forest is still available in the US.

CCC

Yeah, someone on eurobricks said it was OOS in the US but others have said it is not. Presumably someone trying to spread panic buying failed at the first step!

Brickchap

The castle is a really nice set but way too expensive. $400 AU could work, so $200 is just wasted on thin air. ($200 is roughly speaking one modular building so its an awful waste).

I like the idea of a big castle but I think it would have been a much better set if it was cheaper, and smaller if that was necessary to make it more affordable. It's not that the castle is too big, but I highly doubt people would have been disappointed if it was slightly smaller or minus a couple of rooms or so resulting in say, $100 off the price for example.

As I said on the main page, heaps of people who want this are going to miss out and thus Lego is losing lots of potential customers.

Fauch

I like it, but it looks more like a 300€ build. curious to see reviews, video in particular

FireFox31

I'm fascinated by the price, size, and feature disparity between the retro Classic Space #10497 at $100 and the retro Castle at $400.  The spaceship seemed "so cheap" that I pre-ordered it without seeing reviews (and I'm a cautious shopper).  Yet the castle is "so expensive" that I can't justify it by any means.

The quantity of figures is excessive, in case that contributed to price at all.  The size of rooms seems small for that price, while a square footprint castle with an interior courtyard would have "felt" much bigger.

Brickchap

@FireFox31 You've summed it up very well.

I'm not a Classic Space fan, so I won't be buying the spaceship, however it is pleasantly cheap and very detailed plus (to me at least) it appears to be everything one would expect form a Classic Space spaceship. It's also just a really cool set even if you set aside nostalgia or basing it on any old set. The shaping for the wing is really well done, the rover looks like it's driven straight out of a 1980s box (which is pretty cool) and the minifigs are good too.

The castle on the other hand, it's not that its 'bad', it's just of all the things there is to like about it it doesn't matter because it's just too damn expensive and despite being probably the best looking castle Lego has ever done, it just doesn't seem to have the same WOW factor as other sets (eg many modular buildings) have had. (for me at least).

I also very much agree that despite clearly being a very large model (with a very large piece count) it doesn't feel all that substantial, especially given the price.

For example, I considered the Harry Potter Diagon Alley set at one point as although it was dreadfully expensive, I could clearly see a whole modular street in one set (or if you only consider closed back buildings as modulars than it's still 2 modulars and for $500 [assuming the average modular is $250] that's pretty good).

The new castle however as you say, especially when it is closed up really doesn't feel like the massive castle it should be given it's part count and price.

The rooms are a lot smaller than expected, especially the Queen's bedroom (which being the monarch you would expect to be quite ornate and reasonably large, yet it is only about the size of the little room in the Creator Castle.

The so called treasury is literally just a cave with a chest in it which is a real shame. I was expecting some piles of yellow bricks with the occasional gold stud or gold bar, maybe some jewels (like Smaug's lair in the Hobbit).

I would agree with Jangbricks in his thoughts video that it definitely has the most detail of a Lego castle to date, and that's great, but for me it still feels lacking. I think it's because the rooms are so small they naturally can't have that much detail. Maybe if Lego had gone for less rooms but more detail?

Pirates of Barracuda Bay was a really special set, and I think it will be for a long time into the future. The 90th anniversary castle however isn't special, which is sad considering it's celebrating 90 years of Lego. The classic spaceship I think will have that 'special' feeling for Space fans (and others) and that's great. Pity about the castle :(

CCC

They were never going to satisfy AFOLs as a whole.

$400 is too expensive, too big, too many minifigures.

Yet at $100 would be too cheap, too small, not enough minifigures, not as good as the 3-in-1 and why is it the same price as a Classic Space set when Castle won the poll?

And at $250 would be too expensive, too big, too many minifigures for some. Whereas for others it would be too cheap, too small, not enough minifigures, and why couldn't they have made it $400 and made it special for a once in a decade anniversary.

60% of brickset users have said they will buy on release / eventually, and only 16% that it is too expensive. 71% have said they will buy the $100 Galaxy Explorer. So should they have gone with a less substantial Castle set to go from 60% to maybe 65% or a significantly less substantial set to get to about 70% or even 75%? They might sell more but at 1/4 of the price it could well lead to a drop in overall sales. Plus a missed opportunity. It is highly unlikely that they are going to do a $400 Castle again in the next decade.

Brickchap

@CCC I do agree they were never going to satisfy AFOLs as a whole. However, a $250 or maybe $300 castle could have been equally substantial (if not in quantity than quality) and far more affordable for more people.

Remember that thing about 'GoT tO GeT NoN-LeGo FaNs tO bUy LeGo!!!', (the obsession that brought us black boxes, 18+ and now Icons whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), yeah well good luck with that Lego because I don't see kids or currently non-FOL adults spending $600 in one shop on a Lego set, especially a somewhat regular castle.

I wouldn't go too much into Brickset statistics though. Firstly, it's one thing to choose an option on a poll and another to actually go about and spend $600 all in one go. Of those 60% of users, it is likely not all of them will actually make the purchase.

As for the Galaxy Explorer, 71% of people saying they definitely will buy it is a pretty good figure. After all, there are people like me who just wouldn't buy it no matter how good or cheap it was. (not saying its bad btw, I think it's awesome, I'm just not into Classic Space). Now if 71% of people were going to go out and buy the Castle, that would be a much better result for Lego.

I don't think $250 would be considered too big or expensive, that's the average modular building price. There is a big difference between $250 and $600. $600 is over half a grand and a price normally reserved for a MASSIVE exclusive model like UCS Star Wars.

Some people have mentioned 'just save up' which is crazy. Even with my wages as a washup boy/kitchen hand at age 15, maybe some Christmas money, I could save up and buy a modular building without too much trouble.

But $600? That's a pretty hard hit on the old credit card even for medical professionals I know, let alone anyone else.

Furthermore, myself and many others are looking at this $600 castle and not seeing $600 worth of value at all.

Now the Galaxy Explorer theoretically could have been cheaper, or more expensive, but for the 'amount of stuff you get' as Jangbricks says, it is clearly good value. It's a rare opportunity as you mentioned (in this case to get a Classic spaceship) and I think that opportunity has been used well for the Galaxy Explorer. It's affordable (especially for it's AFOL target market), but also accessible for other fans; and it's got everything you'd want for a Classic spaceship.

The castle on the other hand is prohibitively expensive, locking out both people who really want it and also those who might have considered it; like many are considering the Galaxy Explorer even if they aren't huge Classic Space fans.

There isn't really anything that stands out about it; the rooms are more detailed than previous castles, but hardly anything to write home about. Consider the 'Castle in the Forest' or 'Lowenstein Castle'. Much smaller and cheaper models, yet far more interesting and frankly, the 90th anniversary castle is just a larger rip off of the Lowenstein Castle, yet the Lowenstein Castle has more or less has all the same features (aside from the minifig selection.)

andhe

FireFox31 said:

I'm fascinated by the price, size, and feature disparity between the retro Classic Space #10497 at $100 and the retro Castle at $400.  The spaceship seemed "so cheap" that I pre-ordered it without seeing reviews (and I'm a cautious shopper).  Yet the castle is "so expensive" that I can't justify it by any means.

The quantity of figures is excessive, in case that contributed to price at all.  The size of rooms seems small for that price, while a square footprint castle with an interior courtyard would have "felt" much bigger.

If anything, for a $400 set I would have expected more figures! Both the Daily Bugle and Ninjago Gardens are $100 'cheaper' and have more figs (22-25) with the Daily Bugle offering a particularly bigger bang for your buck (IMO) with the licensed characters. So I don't think the figures contributed to the price, I think it's just the case of lego sets being so parts intensive these days that 4500 pieces can be easily swallowed up in building angles and details (I think the recent Boutique Hotel was a culprit of thislooking comparitively small for a modular despite its 3000 piece count).

The castle looks to be split into 4 hinged sections, but I struggle to say that each section looks like a $100 build. I'm hoping for a review before release date that shows lots of clever techniques and hidden details. I'm personally quite pleased it has a smaller more solid footprint than the 'play theme' castles as my display space is limited and have just having to accept that this is the cost of my hobby these days (though telling myself this might have to be my last purchase for a long time).

I'd love it to be cheaper, but seeing as that's unlikely to happen, and we're unlikely to ever get a castle set or theme like this again it feels like a 'must have' for castle collectors (and I'm guessing lego are banking on that also) just like the big star wars sets for the star wars collector, hopefully there will be some gwp or other bonus to lessen the blow a little...

CCC

Brickchap said:

@CCC I do agree they were never going to satisfy AFOLs as a whole. However, a $250 or maybe $300 castle could have been equally substantial (if not in quantity than quality) and far more affordable for more people.

Remember that thing about 'GoT tO GeT NoN-LeGo FaNs tO bUy LeGo!!!', (the obsession that brought us black boxes, 18+ and now Icons whatever the hell that's supposed to mean), yeah well good luck with that Lego because I don't see kids or currently non-FOL adults spending $600 in one shop on a Lego set, especially a somewhat regular castle.

$400 (US) is not that out of line with other large sets. And I don't think this set is for kids or people not into LEGO. It is a celebration of LEGO, so essentially a licence for fans of LEGO just like other fanboy sets are aimed at fans of those licenses. You can cut the price and size but eventually you can end up with a high quality but small set. The Forest hideout is a quality set and probably ~$25  but I wouldn't be happy if they went for quality over quantity at a more affordable price with the flagship set.

Brickchap said:

I don't think $250 would be considered too big or expensive, that's the average modular building price. There is a big difference between $250 and $600. $600 is over half a grand and a price normally reserved for a MASSIVE exclusive model like UCS Star Wars.

This is a massive exclusive model!

Sure they could have made it half the price, matching the price of the boutique modular. They could have used 3000 parts (as in the modular) instead of 4500, cut the humber of figures to seven and removed the horses to match it. That would still give a reasonable sized castle but few figures. But I doubt that is what many fans want. I've sold a lot of classic castle stuff in the past. What I've seen is that people don't really want generic basic bricks to enlarge or extend their existing castles, they want the minifigs - not just armies but variations in design for multiple factions.  If this set came with seven figures or six plus a horse, we'd probably get a couple each of three designs or three each of two. And there would be complaints of having to buy multiple sets to get enough figures to populate one castle, without the issue of the leftover bricks (meaning more space requiring more figures to fill it). 

As to seeing value, I don't think I've seen the value in hardly any sets recently but that doesn't stop them flying off the shelves.

daewoo

You know, I think that the castle is way too expensive.  I'll have to restrict myself to only buying two of them.  :D

Onebricktoomany

@daewoo I too think it expensive but my policy is one to open, open to save and one to sell… so I’m down for three!  Sheesh I need help

CCC

Onebricktoomany said:

one to open, open to save and one to sell…

I don't think that model works any more. To get the same monetary profit these days, it is more like one to open, one to save and three to sell!

I'm glad the images were released. I was going to place another order to get more modern forestmen in the promo set. But given they are in the Castle set too, I can wait.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the prices of vintage figures now. In anticipation of this, I have been selling off most of my vintage ones. I got rid of nearly all my Black Falcons a while back (their prices held up reasonably well despite the re-release) and more recently Crusader Lions and forestmen, so I'm glad they went with the Crusader Lions (although that was pretty much a dead cert). The "breastplate" and "scale mail" ones also went, but I kept Wolfpack (only have a dozen or so) and I kept about half my Crusader Axe ones although they will probably look a bit odd next to updated BF and Lions.

lowlead

andhe said:

...I'd love it to be cheaper, but seeing as that's unlikely to happen, and we're unlikely to ever get a castle set or theme like this again it feels like a 'must have' for castle collectors (and I'm guessing lego are banking on that also) just like the big star wars sets for the star wars collector....

You beat me to it - I was thinking the exact same thing.  If I were an avid Castle fan I would find a way to purchase at least one of these, even if it meant accumulating temporary credit card debt.  Case in point: UCS AT-AT.

If I want a set badly enough, I'll gladly deal with the consequences of compounded interest.  If anything, it's a motivation to pay it off as soon as practical.  Win-win from my perspective.

MaffyD

The problem here is that we're speculating on what the majority of AFOLs would like. We just don't know because our experience is too anecdotal and influenced by our own priorities and preferences. Even the Brickset stats on who is going to buy the castle or Explorer are not indicative of the global AFOL market (even if it's the best guide we have).

We'll just have to wait and see. If you asked me 2 years ago I wouldn't even consider buying such a massive Castle - but now here I am having bought 3 of the Creator Castles and I'm still thinking of getting this one. If my mind can change, then others will be swayed also.

CCC

MaffyD said:

The problem here is that we're speculating on what the majority of AFOLs would like. 

I don't think what the majority of AFOLs want is that important, for this set or any other. So long as they satisfy enough people with what they decide then they'll sell what they have made.

Phoenixio

CCC said:

60% of brickset users have said they will buy on release / eventually, and only 16% that it is too expensive. 71% have said they will buy the $100 Galaxy Explorer. So should they have gone with a less substantial Castle set to go from 60% to maybe 65% or a significantly less substantial set to get to about 70% or even 75%? They might sell more but at 1/4 of the price it could well lead to a drop in overall sales. Plus a missed opportunity. It is highly unlikely that they are going to do a $400 Castle again in the next decade.

I like your point, but this specific part doesn't mean much as the two polls are different and might not have the same number of voters.  So the % don't mean much.  I for myself would vote on the Castle article because I've read it, but I have zero interest in childish looking classic space, so I don't even bother to read those articles.

Astrobricks

^ “ childish looking classic space “

Oh no he di’nt!!! 

;-)

Phoenixio

Astrobricks said:

^ “ childish looking classic space “

Oh no he di’nt!!! 

;-)

I knooooow, risky place to say that.  And I understand the nostalgia having grown up on some of them as well.  But I really can't get over the fact that the builds are not polished: they're super messy, with pieces here and there, and the novelty was mostly on how "cool" the translucent pieces were.  I don't see the interest as much as an adult, if not for completion reasons. 

The more modern space stuff like Galaxy Squad looks much better IMHO.  I'm quite eager to see what their next iteration of space will be, if we don't count their current more realistic approach to modern space age.

CCC

Phoenixio said:

CCC said:

60% of brickset users have said they will buy on release / eventually, and only 16% that it is too expensive. 71% have said they will buy the $100 Galaxy Explorer. So should they have gone with a less substantial Castle set to go from 60% to maybe 65% or a significantly less substantial set to get to about 70% or even 75%? They might sell more but at 1/4 of the price it could well lead to a drop in overall sales. Plus a missed opportunity. It is highly unlikely that they are going to do a $400 Castle again in the next decade.

I like your point, but this specific part doesn't mean much as the two polls are different and might not have the same number of voters.  So the % don't mean much.  I for myself would vote on the Castle article because I've read it, but I have zero interest in childish looking classic space, so I don't even bother to read those articles.

Sure, not everyone reads every article and voting numbers will be different. But I reckon a set that 70% of responses say they will buy will sell better than a set where only 30% say they will buy. A percentage point here and there is meaningless. But as a rough guide, they seem to be quite good barometers to popularity and comments elsewhere. Maybe we should check back in a year's time and look at the numbers of users that have logged them as owned.

FireFox31

Do Castle fans feel this is a good tribute to Castle, a reimagining of the theme?  I expected the 90th anniversary castle to be a true homage as #10497 is to #497, but instead I see something a bit more unique.

Put the price in perspective:  This is a luxury among luxuries.  It's a set for dedicated fans of an expensive brand.  It's like a limited production sneaker, a sport-tuned car, or a gold Apple watch.  Aspirational to many, a real treat to a few.

Castle won the poll, so they deserve this extravagant and lovely set.

560Heliport

I think both #10497 and #10305 are excellent. The new Galaxy Explorer is the logical choice to remake: the largest set of the first wave of LEGO Space. If not that set, then which one should they have redone?
For Castle, if they didn't redo #375 the yellow Castle, then which castle? Better to go all new. 
Either #10497 or #75337 will be Day One for me- I don't think I can afford both on August first. #10305... maybe eventually.

Brickchap

@FireFox31 To answer your question yes and no. Yes, the castle itself (basically the walls and towers) are definitely the best castle we've ever had and a wonderful tribute to all that came before.

I'd also like to mention that the castle (to me at least) is also actually quite realistic. As in, the original Lion King's Castle for example was just a square grey four walls, more like an American wooden fort (i.e Fort Legorado) then a medieval castle. This set has interesting angles, is fully closed up, and one of the very few castles to include a proper moat (or an actual crossing rather then just a ramp that was labelled a drawbridge).

The minifigs for the most part are also excellent updates of original figures, especially the Lion Knights. The forestmen look great and one of my favourite figures is actually the lady who uses the Egyptian warrior headdress to great effect. She is an interesting and unique figure that represents a medieval lady very well and I appreciate that.

On the other hand, this set just doesn't have the same WOW factor as say, Pirates of Barracuda Bay did. I'm actually probably more of a Castle fan than Pirates, but POBB was really something. It felt like a 90th anniversary set and celebration of the whole Pirates line.

Even the Galaxy Explorer for me does have a WOW factor that I can share with those who are Classic Space fans, whereas this castle it's just okay. I like the detailed walls and nice set but.. something's missing. I'm not quite sure what it is, and I'm curious whether others feel the same way?

Side note, this isn't necessarily what would give the castle a WOW factor, but I do think there was a real missed opportunity to have some fun here by including a catapult, trebuchet, battering ram or some other siege engine for a small force of Black Falcons to besiege the castle.

Have the ability to 'break' parts off the walls, maybe knock down the main gate. They do have a trap door to the dungeon but that's about it.

I'm not saying it needed to be a playset and I know some people will be cringing at that idea, but yeah have some conflict or humour like the original sets (and after all, it's a castle which is designed to protect people from attackers. Not much point if no one is attacking).

Maybe that is what's missing. The love and fun (maybe call it nostalgia) for Classic Castle.

POBB had a real sense of fun to it. Funny remakes of old characters with little details like Redbeard going grey, the dunny in the bow of the ship (I forget the maritime name), Jose's Inn, the Islanders statue half buried in the sand. To me, that same love hasn't been extended to this set. It's just a static big castle with some updated minifigs and a horrendous price tag.

As for the price debate consider this. Firstly there's just the idea of many people missing out despite really wanting this set. Secondly, just think from a capitalist perspective then.

At $600, you might sell two of these to a couple of diehard Castle fans. But at $300 for example, you could sell this set to 10 people. You might have 2 diehards who'd pay anything, 5 people like me who love Castle (although aren't made of money and like to see value in a set) and also say, 3 people who otherwise probably wouldn't have bought the set, but with the more reasonable price (and maybe more fun in the model) would buy it just as a cool set. (like people are doing for the Galaxy Explorer). Quick maths you've made $3000 compared to $1200 (and a lot of disappointed people who miss out).

Oh and just to return to your point FireFox, I don't think this set is extravagant. It's big yes, but the overall presence and detail of the model don't feel like a huge celebration of whatever how many years its been of Lego Castle and 90 years of The Lego Group. POBB for example went above and beyond by providing not just a Pirate Bay, but an entire Black Seas Barracuda remake, in the one set, that could be easily converted back and forth (and leave the island for other uses). And to return to some of my previous points, Castle in the Forest, Lowenstein Castle and arguably the 3 in 1 Creator Castle all achieved a great homage to Classic Castle but in a much cheaper (yet probably better value) way.

madforLEGO

-So the new Castle is great, but at the same time... its not?
-Every large scale LEGO castle of note in the 80's and early 90s did not have a fight scene as it was put. Even the dragon master castle type sets in the 90's, with a dragon in the keep, did not have any conflict going on. True the smaller sets had conflict situations (like Battering ram and Siege tower) but they were smaller sets, vignettes if you will (and could be modded into the over large castle which was nice about the old system). However, the sets like #6080 kings castle and #6085 Black Monarchs Castle, among the rest of large castle sets had no fighting in them, so they did not have a wow factor either? I mean that is the definition of 'Classic Castle' concerning large Castle sets. Yeah it does not have the ability to have 'battle damage' but neither did the original Castles. Then again its LEGO... make your own battle damage.
-The set is compared to PoBB, so you really wanted the Castle to transform into something else? I'm a bit confused as PoBB really had no 'Conflict' either but could transform into the ship, granted I like the novelty of the set having enough pieces to transform into a version of the Black Seas Barracuda (and Im guessing this Castle may get alt instructions to maybe make smaller castle scenes as well, Id be surprised if they did not). As for the whimsy of the PoBB set, I think the Castle is the same. It has updated figures calling back to the old crests of yore, a bunch of call backs to the original yellow castle sets as well (the kid playing with what appears to be a yellow castle in his room, and the shields in the one I guess dining room from the original yellow castle shields). The only difference I see that may rankle some people is a 'Queen' instead of a king but not really sure why.
-Finally, I and I'm sure others, would love to have a 2500 pieces Castle for only $300 (Heck Id absolutely would love it for 100). However, LEGO has chosen to make the price $400. My guess is, despite our opinions on this, that they have found -through their marketing dept- what people would likely pay vs what it costs to make. Time will tell if they are right, or if LEGO makes too many that do not sell and has to clearance them out or reduce price during its run (the latter of which will likely not happen). In which case, roll the dice, take your chances that the price will hit a mark you want in a clearance if they need to move them to clear them out...
My apologies I thought I could respond without make a large post.

Cymbeline

Is it just possible that we don't know all the castle's secrets yet? I just watched the designers' video and looked more closely at the box art and there seems to be a hidden room and a secret entrance. The castle balcony turns into a bridge when the castle is opened up as well. Perhaps it's too soon to critique a set that no one else has built or reviewed. It's hard to imagine that a set of this importance created by very imaginative and experienced designers is going to disappoint. 

Brickchap

@madforLEGO Fair point about the price. Glad I'm not the only one who would appreciate a slightly cheaper castle :)

I wouldn't say this won't sell because of the high price, but I will maintain that it is a poor choice on Lego's behalf considering the amount of people who will miss out and my own belief that if hypothetically Lego came out with a 2500 piece $300 castle, it would be equally as good, if not better than this (yet half the price).

You made good arguments; I obviously didn't make myself clear. You are absolutely correct the original sets didn't necessarily have conflict. I suggested conflict as a possible addition that could have made the set more fun, however I wasn't saying it needed conflict to be fun or a good set.

And no I wasn't at all arguing the castle needs to be changed into something else. I just gave that as an example of going above and beyond whereas for me this castle is just a castle. There's no love of the theme like there was in POBB. I had better explain that further. I don't mean it needs anything more than a physical castle, it's about the little details and funny scenes. Think of a piece of piano music. There's a big difference between just playing something as it's written and plonking the keys, to having feeling and emotion, a gentle touch on the piano keys etc.

You're right about the shields and I did think the yellow castle was cool but yeah, overall this set just doesn't have that special something to make one really want to go out and buy it as soon as possible, the way one did with Parisian Restaurant for example.

@Cymbeline Agreed. I didn't even know the designer video was out yet. Hopefully Lego can 'sell' the set well!

Side note, speaking of reviews, can someone please post when/if someone puts the new Sanctum Sanctorum up against a regular modular building?

Brickchap

@Cymbeline Sorry where is this video? I searched online for 90th anniversary castle designer video and it's all just random Youtubers thoughts. Please post the link if possible.

Russell844

This is the one I know of.

CCC

FireFox31 said:

Do Castle fans feel this is a good tribute to Castle, a reimagining of the theme?  I expected the 90th anniversary castle to be a true homage as #10497 is to #497, but instead I see something a bit more unique.

Put the price in perspective:  This is a luxury among luxuries.  It's a set for dedicated fans of an expensive brand.  It's like a limited production sneaker, a sport-tuned car, or a gold Apple watch.  Aspirational to many, a real treat to a few.

Castle won the poll, so they deserve this extravagant and lovely set.

I think it is a great castle. As to reimagining, it depends what you mean. It is not a remake of an old set with modern parts but it is what Castle would look like if designed for adults based on sizes of other adult sets these days. So yes, it is a reimagination of vintage Castle but build with modern parts and with part counts and prices of today's sets.

Sure it's a luxury, but then a $100 set is also a luxury. If they had just remade an old set (and gone a little bigger, like the Classic Space set) then I would have been disappointed given Castle was chosen as the winner. The winning set should be more luxurious than other homage sets released at the same time.

Redbullgivesuwind

FireFox31 said:

Do Castle fans feel this is a good tribute to Castle, a reimagining of the theme?  

I think so, there are plenty of little nods to other sets and factions. The castle clearly has influences from #375 and #6086. But it also takes it to the next level and we finally get a castle that isn't just an empty square building. All of the internal details really bring it to life in a way we have not have in the other castles. We finally get a functional close to realistic castle. They have put in a lot of texture using smaller parts which will push the price up. It is also really big as well so is going to look very impressive on display. 

In regards to the price I don't think Lego could have won. Could they have done a £250 set with max 2500 pieces. Yes. Could they have given it the same foot print in size? Yes. However, it really isn't going to contain anywhere near the level of internal detail. Then we are back to the bare bones of a castle with a couple of rooms and a lot less figures. Then Lego will get accused of lacking detail and that they should have put it at a higher price point so people could get more. POBB is a great set but it also has a lot of limitations - there is very little internal detail, you have to modify it heavily if you want to the cannons to stick out through the gunports. 

So the choice was either push the price up and include a lot of areas and nods. Or strip it out to meet a price point. I would much rather that they go all out and make this the flagship set. As others have said this is not a we hope people buy more of this set from Lego. This is a set that I would argue is more in line with the UCS sets like the AT-AT, MF or Star Destroyer it is a display piece. 

Brickchap

What an awesome video! It reminded me of a bunch of musicians getting back together like ABBA or the Beatles talking. Very enjoyable to watch.

I love the harpsichord!! That does show how bad Lego's marketing team is though, when I saw the harpsichord build in the pictures I thought it was a manger or something. They should have made that clearer. The drawbridge fall into the dungeon feature is cool (although not THE most amazing thing).

I wonder what is hidden below the castle. Maybe a cave with references to Fright Knights? A dragon like in The Adventures of Merlin TV show? Perhaps even a tunnel where the Black Falcons are digging under the walls to blow them up and get inside (as used to happen during a siege).

Thanks for sharing this! I am a tad more happy about the castle now, however that price.... Even seeing the castle 'in person' (sort of), it still doesn't feel like $600 worth of stuff. It's also very annoying because we all know Lego and sales sadly don't mix. It's $600 or nothing (aside from maybe some VIP points although I've accumulated them for years but only got like $50 off which wouldn't help much).

Is there any chance of this coming to stores like Myers or David Jones?

Brickchap

Oh that reminds me. I wanted to clarify the Australian price. On an Australian Lego fan website they said $600 and on Brickset they said $550. Which is correct?