BrickLink Designer Program

Phoenixio

FollowsClosely said:

We see more bricklink sealed boxes than bricklink built sets. I am starting to dislike this program and its potential impact on the hobby.

I'm also bringing back the Bowling Alley, Lego Store and Venetian Houses back from my old Canadian place to France, and once that's done, they'll be joining the Construction Site and the 1950's Diner, all modularized to fit together.  It'll be a great lineup, especially with a couple of official sets such as the Jazz Club, the Boutique Hotel, and the Sanctum Sanctorum...

The rest of the mainline modulars will have to wait, there's only so much space in my luggage...

wardm

@Brickchap I wouldn’t say that the fan made sets are better than the LEGO modulars. I’m very happy and lucky to have the construction site in my collection, but having it built it, though it looks really good, it’s not up to par with the official models in its building experience and also it’s mostly grey, white and tan, so the building itself is a bit more bland than most of the official modulars.

BrickBelt

The one thing that bothers me about the construction set is that while it's a good idea and relatively well executed, it's rather unusual to have a crane present and the top of the building being assembled while the exterior of the lower portion of the building appears finished. If it was being built from the ground up the entire frame work would be finished first. If it was an addition being built on top then the lower portion would be covered. It's like an odd conglomerate of different stages of completeness and since that stuck out to me I haven't been able to unsee it. Still one of the cooler models though!

Marshallmario

sweetness34 said:

Just received the last of my Bricklink designer sets today

That is alot of awesomeness! I'm sorry ...could you repeat your address again, I must have lost it!

1265

Marshallmario said:

sweetness34 said:

Just received the last of my Bricklink designer sets today

That is alot of awesomeness! I'm sorry ...could you repeat your address again, I must have lost it!

Be carefull....you might see Chris Hansen when you show up.

Jern92

Credit card finally got charged today, so fingers crossed they will show up soon.

FireFox31

The new BrickLink Designer Program Series 1 finalists have been announced:

Mountain Fortress - 3986 pieces

Parisian Street - 3465 pieces

The Old Train Engine Shed - 2298 pieces

General Store - Wild West - 1848 pieces

Snack Shack - 548 pieces

Feels like they're missing a lot of opportunity by offering only five sets for funding.  Offering seven or eight (producing the top five) could have appealed to more people, drawing more interest, thus garnering more funding support.  In each of the previous four BDP offerings, I had a hard time narrowing my choices to two or three sets to keep my spending reasonable.  This time, it feels like there's no real choice.  The huge sets

Next, submissions for Series 2 open on May 15 and run only until June 2.  Again, seems like a missed opportunity by having such a short amount of time to submit sets.  Perhaps they only want people who have quality MOCs and designs already done and ready to send.

With the overwhelming number of quality 10,000 club rejected Ideas submissions, I think BrickLink could have success offering those sets another chance at being produced like they did in the previous three rounds.  That was a fun program to be a part of and caused me to spend a lot of money.  Why do you think they changed the program so drastically?

Phoenixio

The Parisian Street seemed tempting at first, but the fact that it's narrow and has no back is a total deal killer.

The Old Train Engine Shed looks nice but very niche to the train lovers.

Snack Shack looks like a great smaller set though.

I personally have no interest for the General Store.  It's the type of sets that wants to revive an old theme "that I love", but doesn't fit with.  It would benefit greatly from having a full line of similarly designed sets released together with it.

I guess that only leaves the Mountain Fortress.  I didn't plan on adding non-official stuff to my limited castle range, but I really appreciate that it's Black Falcon themed, and mostly that it follows in the footsteps of the magnificent Lion's Knights Castle, design-wise. 

Luckily, it'll be a long while before funding starts, I can start starving myself well in advance this year!

FollowsClosely

Phoenixio said:

...I really appreciate that it's Black Falcon themed, and mostly that it follows in the footsteps of the magnificent Lion's Knights Castle, design-wise. 

Luckily, it'll be a long while before funding starts, I can start starving myself well in advance this year!

I am pleased that the castle made it. It was my #1 choice of the candidates. I will be buying two copies of that set and one of the others.

pxchris

We'll see what the pricing ends up looking like, but I might be interested in getting the General Store. Otherwise, it'll be a pass from me on this round.

Switchfoot55

The train shed looks pretty fantastic, but would be out of scale for any inclusion in my winter village and, therefore, not as "usable" for me. 

The Snack Shack definitely has some appeal being on the smaller side and (maybe) less expensive? But, seeing as the budget is always tight, I don't foresee these ever really being on my buy-list. 

All are beautiful designs to be sure!

FollowsClosely

Does anyone know what element this is?

Phoenixio

FollowsClosely said:

Does anyone know what element this is?

The black one is a 25269 nested in a 27925.  I assume it's the same for the blue one, although we don't see the lines quite as well.  Wouldn't be surprising if they did end up with a new element for this 2x2 at some point though, it's only natural since the 1x1 version exists!

FollowsClosely

^ I would have expected to see some lines if that was the case. I suspect that the most obvious answer is the correct one in this case.

ickis

Gotta love JPEG compression.  From another angle you can see the line more clearly (kinda)...




(Enhancing edges.)

FireFox31

Which sets do people like this time around?

Since there were fewer submissions, I had fewer overall that I voted for.  My top three are:

Exoplanet Explorer - Classic Space rover with suspension, interior, robot, etc.

Mushroom House - Clever parts usage to make organic items like acorns, etc.

Inventor's Cottage - Complete playset, enclosed interior, and a cool vehicle.

Modeltrainman

FireFox31 said:

Which sets do people like this time around?

Since there were fewer submissions, I had fewer overall that I voted for.  My top three are:

Exoplanet Explorer - Classic Space rover with suspension, interior, robot, etc.

Mushroom House - Clever parts usage to make organic items like acorns, etc.

Inventor's Cottage - Complete playset, enclosed interior, and a cool vehicle.

I like mine.

Marshallmario

Johnnys fuel and thunder gas station was my favorite!
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/designer-program/series-2/902/Johnny's-Fuel-&-Thunder-Gas-Station-on-Route-66

Glacierfalls265

I was glad that there were half as many as last time in the running for this series, it means my submissions have less competition! I know that's absolutely terrible to say but I'm just glad to have more of a fighting chance :) 

Modeltrainman

Glacierfalls265 said:

I was glad that there were half as many as last time in the running for this series, it means my submissions have less competition! I know that's absolutely terrible to say but I'm just glad to have more of a fighting chance :) 

I agree with you. I feel like sometimes IDEAS/BDP ends up a popularity contest, a bit. I was stunned. I expected 600 or more, the way the last time went. 

Glacierfalls265

Modeltrainman said:

I agree with you. I feel like sometimes IDEAS/BDP ends up a popularity contest, a bit. I was stunned. I expected 600 or more, the way the last time went. 

For sure! I was expecting everyone to resubmit theirs plus new ones and then it would be a huge field! I think a lot of people's enthusiasm dipped after the first one, I've noticed outside of some of the entries with more social media following, the amount of comments is less even on some of the top quality projects. 

I've been monitoring forums to see if anyone has talked about my entries, it hasn't been too bad so far. Someone even said one of mine was a favorite of theirs. Then I got to see my entries get completely roasted by some German dude on Youtube lol. (I assume, it was all in German with no translation and they were all "not for me") 

Phoenixio

I think a lot of people were disillusioned with the first iteration.  Things were expensive and sold out fast, for average quality at most.  I wish LEGO would pass over the models a little to polish them, or at least fix issues.  There's also been much less talk about dates and when voting started.

Then there's the issue that people go to forums to promote their own stuff.  It makes me disconnect almost entirely from threads like this one.  I'm baffled that people made multiple submissions as well: I feel like one submission per person limit (per round) would have guaranteed higher quality of each build.  There's already so little actual discussion arising from people posting their MOCs (to my greatest regret), so when it turns in outright self-promotion, you can see why people would lose interest.

Glacierfalls265

Phoenixio said:

I'm baffled that people made multiple submissions as well: I feel like one submission per person limit (per round) would have guaranteed higher quality of each build.

I am definitely guilty of this! I had three entries in this series. Varied part counts to cover all the categories. I did hear a rumor, and don't quote me on this, that they were going to limit the number of submissions per entrant in the future series. Don't know if it's true or not though. 

Brickchap

I get what you guys are saying, although I'm not sure how I feel about limiting entries. Fans can have multiple great projects that could be similar or entirely different, like a modular building, a space ship and an Adventurers remake for example.

I will say that given the immense number of entries, I quickly got tired of clicking next page through whatever how many pages there are. This is also unfortunate for those projects that are not on the first or second page.

I also agree Lego should at least offer suggestions for improvement to the designer with regards to structural integrity and so forth (again not sure how I feel about Lego interfering too much, after all it's bad enough when they change one Ideas project let alone all 600+ participants. If I make a MOC to be submitted as a potential Bricklink set, I want it to be in the colours I choose, with the style I choose and the minifigures/characters I choose. Same if I have voted for a project, I voted for that project, not Lego's reinterpretation of it).

There were a number of entries that were clearly not going to make it. One other thing lego should do is assist people with presentation. A good MOC shouldn't fail just because the designer didn't have some fancy, super expensive and super time consuming render or couldn't make some fancy Youtube video. For years I struggled with renders being necessary for my LDD based Ideas submissions, but at the same time they always had issues like too dark, shiny pieces appearing grainy, black parts being so dark it was impossible to distinguish two separate parts etc. (and while there were occasionally solutions to one problem, never all of them), whereas other Ideas contestants could get these awesome renders and naturally heaps of supporters.

BrickBelt

Limiting entries to one makes sense IMO, especially when there will be a new series like 3 times a year or whatever it is.

As far as favorites go, obviously I'd love for my Temple of Artemis to make it. I think it's a strong model but it's a bit of a niche theme compared to others.

The five favorites that I picked out of the others actually provided a pretty nice balance of piece count and theme.

Brick Cross Train Station

The Interceptor

Exoplanet Explorer

Italian Flower Shop and Cafe

Mushroom House

Astrobricks

BrickBelt said:

Limiting entries to one makes sense IMO, especially when there will be a new series like 3 times a year or whatever it is.

As far as favorites go, obviously I'd love for my Temple of Artemis to make it. I think it's a strong model but it's a bit of a niche theme compared to others.

The five favorites that I picked out of the others actually provided a pretty nice balance of piece count and theme.

Brick Cross Train Station

The Interceptor

Exoplanet Explorer

Italian Flower Shop and Cafe

Mushroom House

Your Exoplanet Explorer link is a dup of Flower Shop.

BrickBelt

Astrobricks said:

BrickBelt said:

Limiting entries to one makes sense IMO, especially when there will be a new series like 3 times a year or whatever it is.

As far as favorites go, obviously I'd love for my Temple of Artemis to make it. I think it's a strong model but it's a bit of a niche theme compared to others.

The five favorites that I picked out of the others actually provided a pretty nice balance of piece count and theme.

Brick Cross Train Station

The Interceptor

Exoplanet Explorer

Italian Flower Shop and Cafe

Mushroom House

Your Exoplanet Explorer link is a dup of Flower Shop.

Oops, thanks! Here is the correct link: https://www.bricklink.com/v3/designer-program/series-2/744/Exoplanet-Explorer

daewoo

While I appreciate that TLG is giving fans/MOCers a chance to have their designs produced, I much prefer Ideas because the sets are altered to match TLG standards.  I have a few sets from the original AFOL designer program (before Lego bought BL) and while they are cool and unique, they all have design flaws that TLG would never have gone with.  For example, the Bikes! (BL19012-1) set has some issues with the rental stand that make it less than sturdy.  So while I like how it looks, I can't move it without the rental stand falling apart.  For someone who likes to display multiple times a year with his LUG, this is an issue.

Brickchap

@daewoo I disagree. Sooo many good ideas are passed over on Ideas for the sake of yet another 80s Yank sitcom or some random IP Lego wants to cash in on even though no one actually cares. But what I did want to say is that there are plenty of official Lego models that aren't actually that sturdy either, or use illegal techniques (and subsequently make them legal), while at the same time there are fan designs that are arguably better than what Lego does. It all depends on the specific model and while I agree it's better to have things that aren't fragile, I'd rather have a build like that that is the build I voted for, rather than Lego's 'reinterpretation' of it with different colours, different characters, sometimes even an entirely different model altogether.

Modeltrainman

As far as stability, I try not to use any crazy techniques that are fragile. They look nice, but I like sturdy models, because I've always wanted to design for LEGO, SO I've just kind of gotten into that mindset.

daewoo

Brickchap said:

@daewoo I disagree. 

You disagree with my preference?  How does my preference impact you at all?

Brickchap

@daewoo No more than my comment affects you?? I was merely having a discussion based on the points you made. You had valid arguments, I have a different opinion, not sure what the fuss is about lol.

BrickBelt

Lego ideas has a number of issues now. Like theres a huge issue of discoverability of original products as the front page is usually just staff picks and IPs. The IP projects are also rough because usually the extent that the fan model that carries over to the final model is usually just IP and what from the IP is getting a set. Like not to knock the designers, but the BTS Dynamite set Idea is basically "what if there was a set based on BTS Dynamite?". There's also just way too many projects on there and you have people who have hit 10,000 who are submitting many concurrent projects that often hit 10,000. It's to the point 75%+ of the review models are just noise. 

Bricklink Designer program is great because it's actual fan designs but it also has its issues. It sounds like it's largely just votes that determine the final models. The team there has access to the instructions so I kinda wish build experience/quality was taken into account because just looking at a model I don't feel qualified to make a full assessment of it as a product. Voting should be a big influence but they should also look at say the top ten or top fifteen and assess the models themselves using the instructions.

On a side note did anyone notice the pop-up shop they're doing now? Not sure how I feel about that but it's certainly interesting.

Astrobricks

BrickBelt said:

Lego ideas has a number of issues now. Like theres a huge issue of discoverability of original products as the front page is usually just staff picks and IPs. The IP projects are also rough because usually the extent that the fan model that carries over to the final model is usually just IP and what from the IP is getting a set. Like not to knock the designers, but the BTS Dynamite set Idea is basically "what if there was a set based on BTS Dynamite?". There's also just way too many projects on there and you have people who have hit 10,000 who are submitting many concurrent projects that often hit 10,000. It's to the point 75%+ of the review models are just noise.

Very good point. I find it difficult to work up the ambition to look through many projects. Since the same is undoubtedly true of most people, it would mostly be the projects selected for staff picks, and the ones with an IP fan base/social media presence driving their members to vote for that IP’s projects that break through.

Brickchap

@BrickBelt @Astrobricks

I second (or third?) these opinions. There are lots of projects on Ideas and BDP that would just never make it to the 10,000, while at the same time lots of decent projects that get missed due to the 'high profile' of Staff Picks and IPs.

I remember back in the Dark Days when Star Wars was allowed in Ideas and I was of the (arguably justified) opinion that you could put a single black 2x4 brick on Ideas, put Star Wars in the name, and get a bunch of votes. As for Astrobricks point about IPs getting votes based on fans, it's an interesting one because it's great if an IP is popular and people want a Lego set of it, but at the same time it's getting support because it's that IP, not because it's a good Lego set, or even necessarily a good representation of said IP (and BTS is an excellent example of this. Like no faces? Seriously??). If I recall correctly, The Office had like 3 projects that were more or less the same in the one Review and in that case I would wonder how many people voted all of them just because they are The Office. If I was an Office fan I'd pick the best one, although I guess it makes sense to basically spam vote any set of the IP you want so that it gets through.

Personally I'd like to see Ideas split into subthemes or maybe even new themes. Basically have an Ideas line dedicated purely to IPs and then purely to the sort of unique ideas that Lego Ideas is supposed to be for. Now we could also consider this further whether Lego would do a sort of fan design version of Lego Legends given the clear desire for Classic sets and I would emphasise that there have been a number of really cool and unique ideas for sets for be it Classic Castle, Pirates, Space, Adventurers etc. that were not made as sets by Lego and would be a nice thing to do now. I have also previously advocated for a fan design line of modulars.

Given that we often get multiple Ideas sets I don't see why we can't have different categories. Naturally there would be the possibility that no sets in the review process for a particular category are accepted for a certain year. After all, at the moment we already have a more or less guaranteed result of one or more IP sets and one or more non-IP sets, so might as well make it official and thereby open up more spots for unique, non-IP sets (whether those be 100% 'new' ideas like Ship in a Bottle, Old Fishing Store, or using an existing or old Lego theme as inspiration like POBB)

FireFox31

BrickBelt said:

There's also just way too many projects on there and you have people who have hit 10,000 who are submitting many concurrent projects that often hit 10,000. It's to the point 75%+ of the review models are just noise.

I'm still in disbelief over how many sets reach 10k votes each period.  Before the pandemic, each review had about 10 sets.  Now they have about 60.  How did this happen?

I still hold out hope for BDP and its promise of interesting sets.  Ideas has been good for Lego fans (especially seeming to introduce sets for adults) and I believe BDP can be as well.

Keilup

BrickBelt said:

Lego ideas has a number of issues now.

I concur and agree with the opinions expressed so far.  This certainly won't fix everything, but I think they seriously need to consider increasing the votes well above 10,000 to reduce the number of possibles to pull from.  But again it would depend on what other changes are introduced too.  But something needs to be done.

The issue to me is that Lego Ideas hasn't changed in a long time, but the popularity and the hobby in general has.  It's time for Lego to course correct this program in my opinion to better fit in today.  I suspect it is a matter of when, not if, Lego will change the program.  It think they have to.  Let's just hope they make changes for the better.

Brickchap

@Keilup The problem with raising the vote number to above 10,000 would be that it makes it even more unachievable for normal, non-IP projects made by ordinary fans who don't have a massive social media following or an IP-fan group to rely on. Indeed all that would do is increase the number of projects being chosen purely because they have a big fan following or the designer is well known.

Keilup

@brickchap True perhaps.  But how is that different than when Ideas was in the initial years and very few reached 10k?  Different numbers but you get there the same way.

Regardless, I'm not a fan of the large numbers that get into each review each period now.  Too many to chose from and whittle down.

BrickBelt

@Keilup

If you look at one of the recent pools, like the January 2023: https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/1631477b-271d-4263-ab61-10ddd55baefe

Like half the models are IP based, and there's a number from users who have hit 10,000 before and a number that are from users with 2 in that very same review period. I've seen review periods with 4 from the same user in them. IPs and power users are a big reason the reviews are so large.

IMO they should increase the threshold for IP based models and limit it to a single active project per user at a time (active including "in review" and even "in production"). That would significantly clean up the platform. 

Keilup

IMO they should increase the threshold for IP based models and limit it to a single active project per user at a time (active including "in review" and even "in production"). That would significantly clean up the platform. 

@Brickbelt

Those sound like reasonable ideas to me. 

Phoenixio

I don't understand the issues discussed here.  The fact that Ideas gets more and more projects is fairly positive, no?  And we're not even the judges in the end, so scrolling through those projects isn't even an actual problem for us.

I get that IPs can be annoying, but they can also be great sellers and clearly Lego doesn't veto them out because they can benefit from the ideas collected on the platform.

BrickBelt

@pheonixio,

Personally I used to browse Lego Ideas and look for interesting projects, but it's no longer the case because the front page is just 90% noise IMO. IPs, people who have hit 10K and basically farm out more 10K projects off of notoriety or following, and staff picks which aren't even particularly interesting picks half the time IMO. It's an issue of discoverability for more interesting ideas. 

I do like the Bricklink Designer Program a bit better but I wish it wasn't so closely tied to votes. It sounds like outside of product conflict that's pretty much the deciding factor. I vote for what I think is best but without instructions I don't feel like I can really grasp the best overall entries. I wish they looked at say the top 20 or so and built them and decided from there. 

FireFox31

Phoenixio said:

I don't understand the issues discussed here.  The fact that Ideas gets more and more projects is fairly positive, no?

Yes, having more good sets is good.  The question is, are the sets interesting and unique like Ideas has created in the past, and can the Bricklink Designer Program deliver those instead?  The first Bricklink Invitational, before Lego ownership, really delivered some interesting sets.  BDP has been becoming more like Ideas since then.

Even 3000 piece MOCs by power users are still good sets.  I'm just glad BDP is another vehicle for delivering more interesting products.

CCC

Bricklink are introducing a new program where you can buy the instructions for some BDP sets that didn't make it, then purchase the parts through BL and PAB. That way, there is no crowdfunding type limits (minimums or maximums). Even 'failed' projects can be produced, just not boxed.

Marshallmario

    I'm very excited about this new program to buy a variety of instructions and bricks if you choose. For me this would really open up a lot of possibilities. Can't wait to hear more!

daewoo

CCC said:

Bricklink are introducing a new program where you can buy the instructions for some BDP sets that didn't make it, then purchase the parts through BL and PAB. That way, there is no crowdfunding type limits (minimums or maximums). Even 'failed' projects can be produced, just not boxed.

So basically Rebrickable, but maybe with easier parts ordering.

FireFox31

This seems to give designers a "second place" chance to get paid for their work.  This might encourage even more people to submit sets to BDP.  Will this flood the system with entries?  Or is this a great way to get instructions for MOCs you otherwise wouldn't get?

I can think of a few sets I'd like starting with the Ocean House by hanwasyellowfirst, from the same series as the Mountain Windmill which was produced.

CCC

FireFox31 said:

This might encourage even more people to submit sets to BDP.  Will this flood the system with entries? 

I imagine it will. Whether it increases the number of people that want to buy the MOCs is a different matter though. 10 years or so ago when it started to become popular to sell Modular instructions, there were so many similar designs. Some people where literally recolouring designs and putting a few different objects in the windows and calling it something different. Whether that actually worked is not clear.

I think there will be a very different market for these though, compared to the BDP sets. These will be MOCs, wheres the BDP are sets. I doubt the collector aspect will be anywhere near as strong for the MOCs, as they are not official. And of course, little reseller interest. That is probably a good thing, that only people that want to build them will buy them but I also imagine it will cut down the demand significantly.

I guess we will need to wait and see if it is a money making enterprise for designers, and whether some people try to flood the market with their designs. I'd hope BL would put some sort of control in place so that one or a few designers do not take over the MOC shop.

BrickBelt

The pop-up shop is invitation only so there's definitely a control in place.

That being said they invited something like 50 designs which just seems like a lot. Buying on Bricklink is usually a bit more than 10 cents/piece so some of those 4000 piece models could be like $600 after shipping, pieces, and instructions. That seems pretty much unsellable unless you have a highly desirable design. No Minifigures or stickers either.