Shopping at LEGO or Amazon?
Please use our links: LEGO.comAmazon
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

42113 launch in trouble

LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
  According to a German organization article (https://www.dfg-vk.de/unsere-themen/anti-militarisierung/friedensorganisation-kritisiert-lego-kooperiert-mit-rüstungskonzernen) and LEGO themselves the impressive Rescue Osprey is the latest in the ongoing world of cancel culture, you might recall that LEGO reduced advertisement for certain sets in the wake of the US protest for the horrific treatment of George Floyd (that people from all over the US political spectrum cried against), there were rumors they were simply removing all the sets and hence the LEGO community outrage until the company said it was only reducing advertisement. The Osprey is a wonderful aircraft and this particular set is clearly marked as a Rescue with six stickers. 
   The other thing that angers me is that there is already an example of Osprey in the LEGO City line being hilariously used by the crooks in a robbery (60209) and as a civillian cargo helicopter (60021). Perhaps the collaboration with Boing is their problem but are we going to renounce to Passenger planes in sets as well? 
«13

Comments

  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    #60209 is not an Osprey. It bears a superficial resemblance to one, but the rotors don't tilt- and that is the defining characteristic of the Osprey! 
    klintonAstrobricksLordmoral
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    Today is July 20th. A lot of these must already be at stores, possibly even on shelves! Good luck recalling them all, if that's what TLG decides to do.
    LordmoralKungFuKenny
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    I wonder if this might be a test case. Maybe TLG wants to change their "no modern war" policy, and this set is to see what people say.
    AstrobricksLordmoral
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 2,958
    Maybe this set is a Boeing marketing tie-in to get sales in the rescue “biz” :)

    If you’re right @560Heliport, this could be a hell of a collector’s item!
    Lordmoral
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    Some idiot will buy a dozen with the idea that they'll be recalled, and he can sell them for a thousand dollars each. Then it will be released, and he'll be stuck with them.😄
    AstrobricksBumblepantsLordmoralMr_Cross
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 2,958
    ^ But it will still be a cool set :).  I want one, but I won’t be surprised if it’s cancelled.
    Lordmoral
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    I want one, but can't afford it. I'll have to settle for my #8856 Whirlwind Rescue.
    Lordmoral
  • daewoodaewoo TexasMember Posts: 426
    TLG's policy is stupid and hypocritical.  They produce historical military items and they  produce science fiction military items, but heaven forbid they make a current military item.  If I could talk to the founder I would vociferously call that out.
    LordmoralCyberdragon
  • KungFuKennyKungFuKenny Deep in the Heart of TexasMember Posts: 1,103
    @Fizyx
    That was a really well thought out and reasonable opinion.  I don’t know how this passed review - I doubt that LEGO is just now finding out that the Osprey is a primarily military vehicle.  I’ll be interested to see if this applies to Germany only or is recalled worldwide...
    560HeliportFizyxLordmoralMr_Cross
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    I wonder if there is an alternative helicopter build. They could recall them and repackage them as helicopters. In fact, maybe this was planned all along to get another helicopter out without AFOLs complaining about it. We really wanted to do that set, but these darned protests mean we have to do this helicopter instead.
    560HeliportLordmoralFizyx
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    edited July 20
    At one point LEGO will have to decide what it does, there have been multiple modern jets in City sets (specifically the Creator and Sky Show series) that this only got in trouble for it's ties to a company like Boeing and not that it resembles a military aircraft.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    edited July 20
    Like I said on the main page. Obviously this group has no issues with Marvel and Batman sets, so slap a Bat insignia on it and call it the Batcopter

    This is what happens with Covid.. Too many morons with nothing better to do than be outraged.
    LusiferSamdavetheoxygenmanBumblepantsLordmoralBrainslugged
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 2,958
    Bat Osprey (TM)
    560HeliportLordmoral
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 2,958
    The link in OP's post now results in a 404 Not Found error. Are we being trolled, or did they take down the page?
    Lordmoral
  • davetheoxygenmandavetheoxygenman Colorado, USAMember Posts: 199

    One of the larger points the group makes is that license fees are likely being paid to Boeing and Bell... that in effect if you buy this set you will be funding (indirectly) the 2nd and 27th largest global arms companies in the world.  Although, taken to that extreme, I will have to swim to Billund for the Inside Tour to avoid supporting Boeing...
    One has to wonder, did the same people make the same dust up about indirectly contributing to Boeing when they released a co-branded #10177 Boeing Dreamliner?  Not that it is a military aircraft, as we all know it is not but Boeing has been in the same business since prior to the 787 Dreamliner coming out.  Just yet another angle to consider.
    LordmoralmadforLEGO
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    The link in OP's post now results in a 404 Not Found error. Are we being trolled, or did they take down the page?
    Yep, apperantly they were getting hammered.
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    Looks like it is still on their website:
    https://www.dfg-vk.de/unsere-themen/anti-militarisierung/german-peace-organisation-warns-lego-cooperates-with-arms-companies

    One of the larger points the group makes is that license fees are likely being paid to Boeing and Bell... that in effect if you buy this set you will be funding (indirectly) the 2nd and 27th largest global arms companies in the world.  Although, taken to that extreme, I will have to swim to Billund for the Inside Tour to avoid supporting Boeing...
    😄😄😄😄😄, good points. Thr new story link and thanks for that:
    https://www.dfg-vk.de/unsere-themen/anti-militarisierung/german-peace-organisation-warns-lego-cooperates-with-arms-companies
  • daewoodaewoo TexasMember Posts: 426
    daewoo said:
    TLG's policy is stupid and hypocritical.  They produce historical military items and they  produce science fiction military items, but heaven forbid they make a current military item.  If I could talk to the founder I would vociferously call that out.
    You don't see the difference? 
    No, I don't.  Weapons made for killing people are weapons made for killing people, regardless of the level of technology.  Pirates murdered and plundered and raped and pillaged, yet Lego has no issues celebrating them in sets.  Vikings did the same, still no issues.  But issue a modern vehicle that was specifically designed to transport things for the military?  Nope, won't make that, but they will make a Shield vehicle that's designed to carry things for a military organization.  And guns?  No worries there either.  So I reject your assertion that there is a difference.
    LordmoralBrickfan50Cyberdragon
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    Because LEGO would never release a military vehicle (seems the set wpuld have been better off without the Boeing brand):

    PapaBear
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    daewoo said:
    daewoo said:
    TLG's policy is stupid and hypocritical.  They produce historical military items and they  produce science fiction military items, but heaven forbid they make a current military item.  If I could talk to the founder I would vociferously call that out.
    You don't see the difference? 
    No, I don't.  Weapons made for killing people are weapons made for killing people, regardless of the level of technology.  Pirates murdered and plundered and raped and pillaged, yet Lego has no issues celebrating them in sets.  Vikings did the same, still no issues.  But issue a modern vehicle that was specifically designed to transport things for the military?  Nope, won't make that, but they will make a Shield vehicle that's designed to carry things for a military organization.  And guns?  No worries there either.  So I reject your assertion that there is a difference.
    Those sets, alomg with the two pictured above are just vans for aoccer moms.
  • WrecknbuildWrecknbuild NetherlandsMember Posts: 4

    One of the larger points the group makes is that license fees are likely being paid to Boeing and Bell... that in effect if you buy this set you will be funding (indirectly) the 2nd and 27th largest global arms companies in the world.  Although, taken to that extreme, I will have to swim to Billund for the Inside Tour to avoid supporting Boeing...
    One has to wonder, did the same people make the same dust up about indirectly contributing to Boeing when they released a co-branded #10177 Boeing Dreamliner?  Not that it is a military aircraft, as we all know it is not but Boeing has been in the same business since prior to the 787 Dreamliner coming out.  Just yet another angle to consider.
    I think it also has to do with the times that have changed. Nowadays everything that might maybe possibly remotely eventually be considered controversial is investigated, and when there is any fear of doing something wrong, the safest option is chosen.
    Companies and governments should show more balls imho. Surprisingly, someone like the US president can get away with anything and still stay in place. It's a strange world...
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    It would be great if a Lepin like company got hold of the design and made a version. It would be funny to see it become a best seller clone set when Lego caved in to a tiny amount of pressure and didn't release it.
    BumblepantsdaewooLordmoral
  • daewoodaewoo TexasMember Posts: 426
    Once you cave to the mob, they will be back, again and again and again.  My view of TLG just declined a little bit more.
    Lordmoraldavetheoxygenman
  • BrainsluggedBrainslugged England (the grim North)Member Posts: 1,212
    daewoo said:
    Once you cave to the mob, they will be back, again and again and again.  My view of TLG just declined a little bit more.
    Agreed! As soon as you take one step back, they will take one step forward... and continue to do so.
    Lordmoraldavetheoxygenman
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667

    One of the larger points the group makes is that license fees are likely being paid to Boeing and Bell... that in effect if you buy this set you will be funding (indirectly) the 2nd and 27th largest global arms companies in the world.  Although, taken to that extreme, I will have to swim to Billund for the Inside Tour to avoid supporting Boeing...
    One has to wonder, did the same people make the same dust up about indirectly contributing to Boeing when they released a co-branded #10177 Boeing Dreamliner?  Not that it is a military aircraft, as we all know it is not but Boeing has been in the same business since prior to the 787 Dreamliner coming out.  Just yet another angle to consider.
    I think it also has to do with the times that have changed. Nowadays everything that might maybe possibly remotely eventually be considered controversial is investigated, and when there is any fear of doing something wrong, the safest option is chosen.
    Companies and governments should show more balls imho. Surprisingly, someone like the US president can get away with anything and still stay in place. It's a strange world...
    Like the US Federal Goverment showing restraint after 50+ days of rioters attacking the Federal Courthouse in Portland were the media is neglecting to mention that the rioters have been tearing the city for over 60 days now? Or how in complete media neglect showing that the US Federal Goverment (which I formed part of) did provide help to Puerto Rico both after the two hurricanes Irma and Maria and early this year after an earthquake situation when we found the followimg thanks to a social media poster?

  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,766
    edited July 22
    Sigh.  I recall standing next to @Huw at LEGO's last military reveal and don't remember it being a problem.

    https://youtu.be/jVeLHr93uqc
    CCCdavetheoxygenmanLordmoral
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    I don't think this is just about Lego following their own policies. If they followed their own policies, they wouldn't have had the set ready for sale in the first place, a step further back they wouldn't have designed it, they wouldn't have tested or internally reviewed it,  a step further back they wouldn't have even had agreements with the warmongers they are against. For me, it is them deciding to follow their own policies only after a small group, that were known of by probably even less people than have heard of this helicopter, told them they will protest it. 

    Either they knew it was military and thought they would get away with it but caved at the first barrier or they did no research whatsoever. 

    It would not surprise me if other groups attack Lego in future given how they crumbled so quickly here and have given publicity to this group.
    datsunrobbiedaewooBumblepantsLordmoralbpk2300
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    There's a review of it on Eurobricks here:

    https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/179228-review-42113-bell-boeing-v-22-osprey/

    It was prematurely released by a vendor in Vietnam. I wonder how many other distributors will release it rather than return them. The retailers can probably double the RRP and people will still buy them, and those customers could double the price they paid and still flip them.
    Lordmoral
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,322
    But the danger to the retailer is being cut off from LEGO’s future releases. Would be short term gain for long term loss.
    madforLEGO
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    Yes, possibly. Excuses:

    It was an accident that they got put on the shop floor and sold.
    They were returned to you but seem to have been lost on return.

    If LEGO can accidentally design, produce and distribute a set that goes against their own policies, then a store accidentally selling what was sent to them seems quite minor. More so if there is only one distributor of LEGO in that region.
    LordmoralFizyx
  • andheandhe UKMember Posts: 2,996
    edited July 23
    And subsequently the instructions are now scanned and available online for those wanting to build their own (minus the exclusive parts...)
    Lordmoral
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    It will probably lead to it being built more and getting more publicity than if it was released. And if you cannot get hold of the "rescue" version due to exclusive parts, then just go for the plain old grey military version.
    LordmoralFizyx
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    Stores have to pay LEGO for the items to sell us, a lot of companies have already invested big $$$$ in new sets that they'll just see what they can get back especially in today markets with the ongoing pandemic, they will prefer to get afloat rather than go under.
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,085
    Lordmoral said:
    Stores have to pay LEGO for the items to sell us, a lot of companies have already invested big $$$$ in new sets that they'll just see what they can get back especially in today markets with the ongoing pandemic, they will prefer to get afloat rather than go under.
    LEGO would reimburse retailers for recalled product. They don't just demand a recall and pocket the money. Hahaha.
    560HeliportLordmoral
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    Yes of course they will be refunded, and they might not have even paid for it yet. But given what these are going to be worth, some will not make it back to LEGO. Boxes in warehouses or loaded on vans will disappear.

    560HeliportLordmoral
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    Plenty on Ebay already.
    Lordmoral
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    edited July 23
    Bumblepants has mentioned on the other thread that LEGO is not asking for returns, they just won't be replenishing stock. So it is a situation where they apologize as they don't agree with what they have designed, produced and shipped, but they won't pay to correct their mistake and recall the offending items.

    If that is so, it makes them look even worse than just a company that doesn't know what the other hand is doing.
    FizyxdaewooLordmoralmadforLEGO
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,725
    Plenty on Ebay already.
    It looks like New Zealand is the place to be!

    FizyxLordmoralandhe
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 667
    For the first time in years my father asked me to send him a picture of the set, I suspect he intends to keep a lookout to nab a few as he agrees with me how much the set will.be worth. 
  • MynattMynatt OH/NYMember Posts: 584
    How would a licensing deal between LEGO and Boeing work in a situation like this? Does LEGO have to compensate Boeing for the loss of royalties?

    I don't expect to know the actual contract between the two companies but is there a way companies deal with situations and relationships like this?
    Lordmoralpanchox1
  • MrShinyAndNewMrShinyAndNew Member Posts: 273
    I'm amused at how many places (here, on the LAN, etc) people have attributed to LEGO motives that aren't in evidence. The reasoning seems to be "too many people worked on this, they couldn't have violated the policy by accident. Therefore they are caving to cancel culture pressure, giving in to the mob, letting the terrorists win, etc."

    I've worked in a company where dozens of people might be working on a project, and elsewhere in the company dozens of others are completely unaware of it. Sometimes this leads to annoying violations of company policy, like when one department signs a contract to buy a piece of tech without first checking that that tech meets the company's ISO certification, data security, privacy, or other requirements.

    The most likely story is that Lego's no-military policy doesn't apply to made-up aircraft even if they're similar to military planes, as long as they're not military colours - this explains the various jets and osprey-look-alikes. Here a team of people thought they had a strategy that would meet the requirements: design an osprey-alike that is rescue-themed. But someone somewhere got the idea to license the plane, and it's the combination of the license with an arms-maker of a plan that's only used by militaries that breaks the deal. There are really several pieces that have to be connected just right for this problem to occur, if past kits are any indication. Various decision makers obviously had not put all the pieces together to form the chain, and the rest assumed that some aspect of this kit made it okay (the rescue branding, for example).

    Why this has to be some sinister plot, I don't know. Lego is a big company. They have many business units that don't cooperate that much. They make mistakes. This one just got closer to market before being found.
    560HeliportdrdavewatfordAyliffeFizyxklintoniwybsLordmoral
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,322
    edited July 24
    The difference here to that example is that this product would have had to go through multiple committees to reach this point so it seems highly unlikely that at no point did anybody question whether it was in line with their brand values. It is possible it’s oversight but it seems a pretty big bit of oversight. 

     While it’s possible it was originally a model that didn’t have the Bell and Boeing branding, once that was added the designers almost certainly would have then been redesigning the model with the actual V-22 in mind. There were a lot of points where this should have been caught before going to production. 

     I don’t think this is “part of some sinister plot” but I do think LEGO have been pushing the limits of their brand values and guidelines for a long time and really need to review whether or not they are still truly relevant to how the company wish to proceed. Personally I’m indifferent to the whole thing (in that I’m not bothered either way of LEGO produce this model) but I find the situation very interesting.
    drdavewatfordFizyxKungFuKennyiwybsLordmoral
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,610
    I think this might have been a test. Maybe TLG wants to change their "no military subjects" policy, so they put out the Osprey to see what the reaction is.
    Lordmoralsklamb
Sign In or Register to comment.

Shopping at LEGO.com or Amazon?

Please use our links: LEGO.com Amazon

Recent discussions Categories Privacy Policy

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Brickset.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, the Amazon.com.ca, Inc. Associates Program and the Amazon EU Associates Programme, which are affiliate advertising programs designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.

As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.