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Ebay Dispute - Seller claiming model is pre-production - Can anyone clarify?
jason_ni
Member Posts: 32
Ok, so without boring you with all the details, I purchased what was listed and advertised as "Lego Imperial Flagship".
The box arrives yesterday, and straight away it doesn't look good, there was no padding/bubble wrap, and I can see that the bricks are not stamped as lego. They look like a knock off 3rd party version.
(images here - https://imgur.com/a/t2NwPkX)
He is claiming that the ship was given to him, by his uncle, who worked as a product designer at lego( no name for his uncle, but he name drops Kirk Christensen as having worked on the design with his uncle (former CEO none the less(Kirk junior retired as CEO in 2004, am assuming he wasn't talking about the founder who died in 1958), and that early prototype models will not have the stamps. This sounds highly dubious to me, why would Lego have a separate line to print, non labeled lego for production design?
This is balderdash right? I have raised dispute with ebay, but they give you a week to try and resolve the matter, which is not happening, he is claiming the images I sent, of the box was not what he sent, as he bubble wrapped it, which is lie unless royal mail opened it, removed the wrap and resealed it.
He also offered a partial refund of £100, claiming it was legit lego, just with "no markins".
Then further down the he claims how does he know that I haven't switched out his legit with a fake. He is also saying there is nowhere in the UK for me to return it to, as he has gone to Iraq with the army, and will be moving to his parents in Australia. This whole thing stinks of BS, but part of me is slightly concerned that ebay will somehow not side with me, its soured my recent fall back in love with all things lego!
I'll reach out to lego directly, but not sure they will get back to me, appreciate any thoughts.
The box arrives yesterday, and straight away it doesn't look good, there was no padding/bubble wrap, and I can see that the bricks are not stamped as lego. They look like a knock off 3rd party version.
(images here - https://imgur.com/a/t2NwPkX)
He is claiming that the ship was given to him, by his uncle, who worked as a product designer at lego( no name for his uncle, but he name drops Kirk Christensen as having worked on the design with his uncle (former CEO none the less(Kirk junior retired as CEO in 2004, am assuming he wasn't talking about the founder who died in 1958), and that early prototype models will not have the stamps. This sounds highly dubious to me, why would Lego have a separate line to print, non labeled lego for production design?
This is balderdash right? I have raised dispute with ebay, but they give you a week to try and resolve the matter, which is not happening, he is claiming the images I sent, of the box was not what he sent, as he bubble wrapped it, which is lie unless royal mail opened it, removed the wrap and resealed it.
He also offered a partial refund of £100, claiming it was legit lego, just with "no markins".
Then further down the he claims how does he know that I haven't switched out his legit with a fake. He is also saying there is nowhere in the UK for me to return it to, as he has gone to Iraq with the army, and will be moving to his parents in Australia. This whole thing stinks of BS, but part of me is slightly concerned that ebay will somehow not side with me, its soured my recent fall back in love with all things lego!
I'll reach out to lego directly, but not sure they will get back to me, appreciate any thoughts.
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Comments
Just been stressing a bit, and didn't sleep great, not normally up at 7.30AM on a sunday!!
I have contacted lego directly, so will update if I do hear back from them.
Just tell him LEGO confirmed it was real and don't respond to any further messages, eBay will ask you to return it and should give you a label to print off to do so.
He later sent a message saying all he had in his account was 150, and that was the best he could offer me(although did not actually put it forward as an offer), which would mean he has sold an official flagship for £120.
I paid 270, thinking I would be out bid, based on what others went for, but would be happy to get it at that price( my max offer was actually 300).
It just doesn't add up, but I know I'm going to be stressing about this now until ebay get involved, which is 8 days away yet.
Will provide an update once ebay get involved.
Also given that a main factor in production design is "clutch power" there is zero chance they'd test ideas out with non-lego elements.. This is a totally fake item, either they are openly trying to con you or maybe they fell for it from someone else and are trying to recover losses from someone else i.e you.
You can always threaten them of reporting to Lego as well and to local trading standards office, ultimately they are "passing off" which is unlawful in the UK (eg. like going into a pub, asking for Pepsi and you get given Coke...hence they always would say "is Coke ok" in that scenario).
Trading standards would assist here too if you don't get anywhere but as others have said Ebay is very much on your side here, but given he could try to sell to someone else.. i'd be tempted to lodge it with trading Standards either way.
Fingers crossed for an easy refund :)
Prototype Lego sets and parts do get sold on eBay, however! They are rarely seen, but usually, you can verify with the seller the authenticity based on known other examples in the market. Often the sets, if they are true prototypes, will contain all the usual Lego parts, but pieces that would have debuted as new with the set may be rapid prototyped, and therefore have an obviously grainy or coarse texture. They may even have a slight color mismatched, but they will still have the LEGO logo stamped somewhere. When it comes to individual parts specifically, test pieces may also be of the same quality of normal Lego pieces, but just made in a different color (or fusion of colors!) than what was ever available to the general public.
Anyway, hope that is helpful for you. I really hope you get your full refund and maybe even that seller shut down for good. Fleecing people with that ludicrous story is wretched, and they should face the consequences for it.
He attached an image, saying that he had found the original instructions, hence proving the authenticity of his unbranded Lego. It didn't take me too long for to find the original version of "his" image online, which he had cropped, it's clear to see the matching shadows/glare/crease, so he has pretty made any arguments from his side defunct. I've uploaded the original version of the image, linked where I got it, and called him out on it, saying he was blatantly trying to use false evidence to back his claim!
Pretty sure at this point that ebay will be siding with me on this one!
But yeah, it's pretty mad, he went fully in on his back story, accusing me of calling him out, this is a direct quite in the ebay dispute "that model been in family years as im nearly 40 i got it as a child so dont appreciate being called out"
I mean, it was released 10 years ago, maybe it was Lego Founder Ole Kirk Christiansen who worked on it with his uncle, and it was in preproduction/prototype for 40 years, before there even was a pirate theme, hard to say!
Good sleuthing and we now just need to hear that you get a fully positive result in the end.
Don't worry, @jason_ni you will 100% get your money back. eBay will always side with the buyer. Sadly, I've been on the opposite side of this scenario as a seller with the buyer making up fantastic stories. Have talked to eBay and had the reps agree that the buyer is bonkers. And then proceed to refund them anyway.
Yeah, I kind am 2nd guessing the whole thing, like he is so committed to his story, and is adamant that the ship is legit, and its only because its an early model his uncle worked on, explaining the lack or Lego stamps, as well what appear to be Lepin studs. I don't know if someone, somewhere along the line has given his the set, told him its Lego, and he is refusing to believe other wise. It's a fine story.
Or he is just so committed to the scam, he won't back down. Latest message today claiming that someone at Royal Mail has sliced open the box, as his address label was printed, and the one that I received is handwritten(never mind that the written label on my box had a message inside that stated "Enjoy Jason, this was one of the 1st ships made")
He did claim he sent it bubble wrapped, so I'm not sure if he is claiming that someone is Royal Mail, sliced it open, removed the bubble wrap, and put his ship back in, or that the Royal Mail person has not only removed his bubble wrap, but replaced the whole ship.
He has also stated that I am good at google, and is fed up with the rubbish I have been stating/links to Lego website, to prove that what he has sent is not legit.
@jason_ni Send every correspondence and piece of evidence to eBay, right down to the handwritten note. I wouldn't be looking for just a pound of flesh. I'd take this guy to church.
I called them to double check, mentioning that the seller had claimed they were no longer in the UK. Ebay just said, that as long as I use their postage label(no cost to me) it will be tracked, and once delivery is attempted I'll be refunded, regardless of if whoever is in the premises signs for it, or doesn't take it.
I've photographed everything I've packed and how its been packed, and will video the final seal to be be sure, as no doubt the seller will claim that I didn't return, and put something else in the box or some nonsense!
The seller has now sent me a message, basically threatening me with a solicitor.
This is his message.
"What the actually hell have you sent me that is half a boat you sent me a item wrapped in bubble wrap with a sticker on no box are anything i will be seaking legal action there half a boat no figures no mast load parts missing . My uncle just tried figing this and load stuff missing your a joke a con and herd about people like you .so exect a solicter letter for thieft"
What do I do with that, I just think I'm not going to respond, or I'll contact Ebay to say that he is harassing me.
I took a lot of photos of what was packaged, and a video of the final boxing, showing the wrapped ship going in, and sealing the box. I had a gut feeling he would try something like this. The only thing I don't have is a selfie of me at the postal counter delivering it.
He's a mentalist, and by far my worst ever online purchase experience!
Should I just leave it and not respond? I feel like asking how did he get it, given that he is no longer at that address, and in Iraq, but I don't want to wind him up.
you have choices, not exclusive, can do more than one.
1) as a minimum report to ebay for abuse/threatening behaviours, they have agreed as a seller to follow Ebay procedures and here they are going outside of this.
2) let them do what they want, little chance they would it would cost them hundreds to do and if so easily defended. The thing about solicitors is they will ask for his evidence before they put pen to paper and even if they did write if you landed back your list of evidence, messages from here and ebay back to the solicitor the only thing the person will get is a large solicitors bill... besides getting a solicitor to write a letter these days like this you're looking at at least £200 to £500 as they would want to understand the case beforehand. No solicitor will take up a case where someone is selling counterfeit goods........
3) go to the police, he's calling you a thief...... there must be a crime then and at least you can lodge a harassment position... get the police to call/visit him to take his account of the theft /accusation and see how far he's willing to perjure himself. Imagine him getting a call "I understand you want to report a crime?"
4) go to trading standards, this is a fraudulent trader.. but only useful if company not an individual.
5) on Ebay block him, on email block him and just move on.
6) go to Action Fraud website and raise a case on there, he's now moving from fraud to extortion. eg. making threats.
if was me..... i'd look into tracking/photo and if that's good outcome i'd send it back with a final statement of .... here's the photo of the box on your doorstep, go ahead punk..... and i'd take options 2 and 5....
if a letter does arrive then i'd call the solicitor (let me know if want help on that call) and check it's legit not a fake letter (look them up, don't just call the number on the letterhead) and put over your side and point them to ebay and pass it to whoever provides your legal protection cover on your house insurance if you took that option.... but seriously no real letter will come and if it randomly did easily defended, remember he's selling counterfeit goods......
Last point.... if he then says (based on your evidence) that the courier stole/unboxed/lost bits etc... then as you used his return label it's something for him to resolve with the courier.... eg. he needs to issue that letter against the courier not you ! the contract for delivery is between him and the courier, not you and him and not you and the courier.
From a purely selfish point of view, I'd love it if you just kept the correspondence going and just lead him on (and keep all of us updated!)
About four years ago I was trying to sell a sofa online. Someone contacted me about it it and it seemed a bit off. After doing a bit of research online I realised it had all the hallmarks if a classic scam. But I kept communicating with them, telling him stuff like I accidentally killed a prostitute on it so there may be some blood stains on it and that I'd lost a bag of coke down one of the arm rests and did he still want the sofa. The answer was always "yes". I was a bit disappointed when he finally stopped communicating with me.
Tell him to do one. Say something that will really get under his skin.....and then block him.
Contacted Ebay on chat, and they have said they will report the messages he has sent to me, and that I should just ignore him going forward.
I had previously reached out to TLG, and they got back saying I could pass his details onto them, and they would investigate the selling of counterfeit goods, so there is that option.
At least I am in Northern Ireland, so there is a bit of water between me and him, but he genuinely seems unhinged, and has previously mentioned that he is a "Knife Expert" during the ebay dispute, so I'd rather not have him turn up at my door. It is a bit unsettling that he has my address.
The issue should be over, I'm not sure what he is hoping to achieve with the new threat, does he think I'm just going to respond and be like here, take your money back, and keep the ship that's been returned!!
Think I already mentioned that one of the little red connectors for the sail had snapped when it was sent originally to me due to his poor packing, I even bloody super glued that and fixed it, some thanks I got!
The dude's Atlantean. SeaKing Legal Action, LLC is a highly-regarded office of attorneys in the undersea kingdom of Atlantis. Probably why the returned set ended up in such bad shape, what with the currents and sharp rocks knocking around all mail down there.
By the way, if you respond, Jason, don't mention how this whole transaction seemed "fishy" from the get-go. Atlanteans get really offended by that kind of language!
Regarding his other fanciful claims, as ex military myself, I can assure you that he is not. The British Army only have a handful of senior advisors in Iraq at present and none of those would tell you that they were there. As for his claim to be a 'knife expert', nobody who is would feel the need to tell anybody. He is a fantasist and a liar. Absolutely nothing to worry about.
As tempting as it is to continue to engage him, I would leave it. You have your money back, karma will catch up with him sooner or later. No point spending a single additional minute worrying about it or dealing with him further. Don't open any more messages and leave him to stew.
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokedex/seaking
P.S. The last time any LEGO elements came out without any LEGO markings was 1952.
Awake to find an email to my personal Yahoo, guessing my email was on the dispute, sent to me, where he is responding to an email from Paypal, as though I am paypal if that makes sense. Just replied to an email from paypal, and put my address in. (turns out he didnt have funds in paypal for the refund, so ebay gave it me, and have went to Paypal to get it from him,
I guess he thought if there was no funds in his paypal, I wouldn't be able to be refunded.
Yes and he sent me a item back that was in bits was not the same item i sent it was a load of old lego bricks wrapped in bubble wrap broken parts absolute usless i cant rebuild are re sell as we looked at parts there were just random stuff sent so cant even re make it to re sell so i have bits that looked like been chewed i have parts of god knows what i do t have what was in the photo as photo below he sent me what the photo below just random bits i now at massive lost he kept my figures that worth rd £50 as sent no figures back so why should i re pay you when you not looked at both side you took his side i sold him that boat in return i get a box full of
Its mind bogging how persistent he is, I'm tempted to reply and just ask him to send an image of the package was when it arrived, to see what he sends. (But I think smarted to just keep ignoring him)
He's attached an image of random bricks, I think he has took this one, as he has placed in 3/4 parts of the ship hull, with other random bits, those lego rock formations/tree branches, basically stuff that is nothing to do with the flagship.
Didn't realise the market for Lepin mini figs was so competitive, £50 for 5 Lepin ones, and 2 original blue lego soldiers!!
Worth keep checking Ebay to see if the item crops up again and miraculously with the "missing" parts back again, worth doing a postcode search as could just use another account to relist.
I'm guessing he is going to open a paypal dispute over this, pretty sure that I am protected from that now, and if paypal were to side with him, it comes from their pockets, I'm not sure?
Its just pretty irksome to imagine that he comes out of this was his fake ship back, as well as being 277 better off!
I've been keeping an eye on his ebay, as I was half expecting to see it pop up, that would be a laugh!