Purchase from Lego.com arrived re-taped/box damage

Legomonor

I bought 71043, Hogwarts for $399 directly from Lego.com. I noticed that the original tape on one end had been cut and new strips of official Lego tape replaced over the old tape as close as they could match it. There were two areas on the box where the cardboard was cracked/pushed in  and one  corner of the box was damaged like it had been dropped on that corner. I contacted logo and they told me to send it back and once
they receive it and examine it they will replace it. This was not damaged in transit since it was inside of the shipping container and then a fitted cardboard box which had zero damage. Has anyone ever received a Lego set directly from Lego.com which was obviously opened and retaped with Lego tape? Since I don’t plan to open this set but keep it as a collectible, I’m not comfortable with this. The whole thing just seems weird. I’ve included just one picture of one strip of tape as an example. They were all like this

klinton

I dunno. I bought a set from the Lego Store that had been retaped (#70424 ). The contents were exactly as expected. While I'd never accept it from a mass retailer like Walmart, I don't even check the tape when buying from Lego directly. I've every confidence they wouldn't sell me an incomplete product. 

I really don't understand all of the fuss people put up over the cartons, to be honest. Like, I constantly see people demanding refunds from [email protected] or Amazon for dented boxes. It's completely absurd, imho. 

CCC

Legomonor said:

Since I don’t plan to open this set but keep it as a collectible, I’m not comfortable with this. The whole thing just seems weird. I’ve included just one picture of one strip of tape as an example.

It sounds like a customer return. I'd definitely want to know it is complete, especially if you are not opening it right away. So getting a new one is probably a good idea.

klinton said:

I really don't understand all of the fuss people put up over the cartons, to be honest. Like, I constantly see people demanding refunds from [email protected] or Amazon for dented boxes. It's completely absurd, imho. 

If you are opening the box and don't really care much about boxes, then I'd agree. However, if a collector wants a sealed set in decent condition then it is understandable. If LEGO and amazon didn't send out damaged items or customer returns, then it wouldn't be a problem.

Legomonor

Thank you for the replies. I know that it is the law in many places that you cannot sell customer returns as new. If they are returned/open box items, that must be disclosed. If I was opening it right away, then no big deal. I’d be verifying contents then. But, I’d hate to find out years from now, or sell it to someone and then they come back at me about it being retapped or stuff missing. 

Brainslugged

I've never experienced double-seals, but just a couple of days ago in the "Modular rumours 2020" thread there was discussion about some of the new modular sets coming with an extra baggy of 1x1 bricks due to a colour issue. @DadsAFOL2 's comment (screenshot below) would suggest double-taping might be a standard practice if a small error needs to be corrected in a batch of sets.

WhiteDove

I have had a set with double seals. It was an Elves set (Ragana’s castle) and the seals were Lego official seals. I opened it and found a sheet of the plastic banners loose inside, as well as a sheet of the plastic banners sealed inside the bag with instructions. The set was meant to have two sheets of the plastic banners. So it was definitely the case that TLG had reopened the box to correct a problem. 

jnscoelho

klinton said:

I really don't understand all of the fuss people put up over the cartons, to be honest. Like, I constantly see people demanding refunds from [email protected] or Amazon for dented boxes. It's completely absurd, imho. 

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

klinton

jnscoelho said:

klinton said:

I really don't understand all of the fuss people put up over the cartons, to be honest. Like, I constantly see people demanding refunds from [email protected] or Amazon for dented boxes. It's completely absurd, imho. 

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

It's a method of getting the product safely from the factory to your home, at which point it goes straight into the recycling.

Do you also hoard pizza boxes? How large is your collection of cookware cartons? Blister cards from pens are wildly collectible this season, yo! ;)

I get the idea that CCC was trying to get across, where purchase with the inent of resale might have different concerns. If you're purchasing something for your own collection with every intention of opening the box and using the product, then these concerns are absurdly overblown. That is absolutely the line between 'collecting' and merely 'hoarding'.

ReesesPieces

jnscoelho said:

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

Preference of the box is based on each individual but I think we all know (including you) that that is not a very good comparison.  I don't most people take off the body of the car and throw it away.  Let me know if you do.  I might have to go dumpster diving at your house.

jnscoelho

ReesesPieces said:

jnscoelho said:

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

Preference of the box is based on each individual but I think we all know (including you) that that is not a very good comparison.  I don't most people take off the body of the car and throw it away.  Let me know if you do.  I might have to go dumpster diving at your house.

Of course it's not the same thing, for the most obvious reasons. Still, a dent doesn't compromise the car's function or even its body's function. Furthermore, It's not the body that makes it work, it's just the "packaging". Also confers protection to what's inside, same as the box.
I just wanted to make a point. The box is part of what you are buying. Many people, non-AFOLs included, keep the box, even after opening and assembling the sets. So, I understand if they want it to be perfect. And, if you buy online and you can't chose or know in which state the box is in, if it arrives in imperfect conditions, I understand if they complain.

jnscoelho

klinton said:

jnscoelho said:

klinton said:

I really don't understand all of the fuss people put up over the cartons, to be honest. Like, I constantly see people demanding refunds from [email protected] or Amazon for dented boxes. It's completely absurd, imho. 

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

Do you also hoard pizza boxes? How large is your collection of cookware cartons? Blister cards from pens are wildly collectible this season, yo! ;)

Sure I do. You wouldn't believe the diversity of fungi one can grow on those. It's called reusing, yo! ;)

SumoLego

klinton said:

It's completely absurd, imho. 

I wouldn't expect a 'perfect' box from [email protected], and frankly, it's unreasonable.  If I were LEGO CS, I'd be hard pressed to send out a new set because the box was dented.

If you want a perfect box, you're best buying it in-person at a Retail Store, or pick through your choices at a third-party retailer.

(That said, I very carefully picked my UCS TIE Fighter box at my local store.)

SumoLego

jnscoelho said:

You'd also buy a dented car at full price?

The car is the product.  And let me tell you, driving home my car in the box was a chore. 

The box is not the product.  It's the packaging.  (But if the collector market wants the packing  preserved, that's why we have box-sensitive folk out there...)

Cyberdragon

A part of me hopes that somehow...someway...they knew you were a filthy cardboard-only collector and filled the box with gravel out of spite.

Oh dear...you noticed...now a real Lego set has to suffer.

Someone link that hilarious ASPCA style anti box collector post I made a while back about boxed sets left abandoned on shelves gathering dust being Lego abuse.

CCC

The box is more than just packaging. I'm sure most people would not be happy to have an address label stuck on the box if ordering online. Similarly, would customers be happy to receive the product in a plain brown box with no artwork, switched at the till if you pick up a printed box from the shelves. 

KungFuKenny

I must confess that I really like the boxes. I like the artwork, and I like unopened sets lined up on shelves so it looks like I have my own personal Lego store. That way when I feel like building I can go peruse the shelves and pull something down.

I also know that my taste in Lego today will likely shift to new themes in the future, and the boxes are helpful in getting a good resale price.  The only boxes I throw away are from sets I have parted out to the parts collection...

jnscoelho

SumoLego said:

jnscoelho said:

You'd also buy a dented car at full price?

The car is the product.  And let me tell you, driving home my car in the box was a chore. 

The box is not the product.  It's the packaging.  (But if the collector market wants the packing  preserved, that's why we have box-sensitive folk out there...)

You must have skipped my post after that one.
Nevertheless, I never said the box is the product. I said it's part of the product. Same as the car's body. I also admitted it was a dodgy comparison.

They pay people to design what's in the box. There's work, there's investment on those. Most of us, me included, may discarded it as it was a plain brown box, but it's part of the product.

klinton

CCC said:

The box is more than just packaging. I'm sure most people would not be happy to have an address label stuck on the box if ordering online. Similarly, would customers be happy to receive the product in a plain brown box with no artwork, switched at the till if you pick up a printed box from the shelves. 

I'd be perfectly happy if they dumped the contents into my shopping bag and discarded the box themselves, tbh. I insist on this with many purchases, like shoes and multipack items.

jnscoelho said:

They pay people to design what's in the box. There's work, there's investment on those. Most of us, me included, may discarded it as it was a plain brown box, but it's part of the product.

The artwork and design exists to lure in buyers from store shelves, not to be stored to your attic for all time. It has served its entire purpose the minute you put it in your cart.

This is such a bizarre conversation. People are so passionate about rubbish. Hahaha.

SumoLego

CCC said:

The box is more than just packaging.

I think to some people the packaging may feel like the product, but it's just packaging.  There is nothing about the packaging that is necessary to use the product.  

For collectors, on the other hand, the product itself may have less value than the condition of the packaging.

If I buy an Instapot, or any other product that doesn't have a collector market, the box is just packaging to deliver the product to me.  And I wouldn't care if the label were slapped on the outside of that box.

CCC

It is also a storage box for the set, with an identification label on it. For sets kept together it is a useful part of the product. I chuck out most of my boxes if the set is bought for parts. But if it is going to be built then taken apart, the box is useful.

The other thing about a good condition box for a new set is that chances are the set is complete and undamaged. Whereas a box that has been torn or punctured or crushed is less likely to be in good condition.

SumoLego

And as an aside, if there were a way to get LEGO at a 20% discount with no-nonsense packaging, I'd be interested to see if that would sell well.

(Because it doesn't exist, I would guess it wouldn't.)

M1J0E

^Nice idea!  Could be implemented on S&H I’d think, but it might not be worth it if for them they’d have to have 2 different ways of packaging.  But given I throw out boxes anyways (except for architecture & creator expert) I’d be all over this.  Really for smaller sets in general themes (City, Marvel, etc.) who wants the box anyways.

jnscoelho

^^I'd buy! That, and less plastic bags inside. I know, I know, some will complain about sorting pieces and stuff like that, but for me a since bag with everything on it (in a plain brown box) would be more than enough. 

CCC

M1J0E said:

 Really for smaller sets in general themes (City, Marvel, etc.) who wants the box anyways.

Retailers and customers. Imagine a LEGO aisle full of plain boxes.

SumoLego said:

And as an aside, if there were a way to get LEGO at a 20% discount with no-nonsense packaging, I'd be interested to see if that would sell well.

(Because it doesn't exist, I would guess it wouldn't.)

20% off is probably too much - what are LEGO actually saving by going to non-printed boxes. Maybe if they removed the instructions too, so this cuts down on printing costs / paper wastage but also transportation costs.

But I doubt they would do a cheap version of their premium product. It makes the brand look cheap. Plus clone bricks could have a great time copying their plain packaging. If there is no artwork or similar on boxes, or sets are just supplied in clear bags, then there is nothing to stop them copying LEGOs numbering system.

daewoo

jnscoelho said:

ReesesPieces said:

jnscoelho said:

You'd also buy a dented car at full price? The box is part of the product, whether you like it or not.

Preference of the box is based on each individual but I think we all know (including you) that that is not a very good comparison.  I don't most people take off the body of the car and throw it away.  Let me know if you do.  I might have to go dumpster diving at your house.

Of course it's not the same thing, for the most obvious reasons. Still, a dent doesn't compromise the car's function or even its body's function. Furthermore, It's not the body that makes it work, it's just the "packaging". Also confers protection to what's inside, same as the box.
I just wanted to make a point. The box is part of what you are buying. Many people, non-AFOLs included, keep the box, even after opening and assembling the sets. So, I understand if they want it to be perfect. And, if you buy online and you can't chose or know in which state the box is in, if it arrives in imperfect conditions, I understand if they complain.

You are effectively comparing apples to moon rocks.

jnscoelho

You are effectively missing the point of the comparison.

klinton

jnscoelho said:

You are effectively missing the point of the comparison.

Nobody's missing your point. They're telling you that your 'point' is ridiculous. 

Astrobricks

Can we all just agree to disagree? Some people like the box, some don’t care.

klinton

Astrobricks said:

Can we all just agree to disagree? Some people like the box, some don’t care.

I really don't have any issue with people liking the boxes. Fill your house with whatever you please. 
I was just commenting on the absurdity of people who complain to retailers when the box has shipping labels on it, or is damaged in some fashion... but the contents are in order. It's obscene, regardless of your collection preferences. 

datsunrobbie

SumoLego said:

And as an aside, if there were a way to get LEGO at a 20% discount with no-nonsense packaging, I'd be interested to see if that would sell well.

(Because it doesn't exist, I would guess it wouldn't.)

I mostly just buy LEGO at Savers (used), for about 20% of the retail price. Of course the trade-off is never knowing if the set is complete, and the "extras" can range from "Wow, I haven't seen on of those in 20 years" to "What IS that sticky stuff?".

M1J0E

^ for 20% I’d take a chance. Your pricing seems alright. Our pricing here seems to be done by the same people who make ads stating “LQQK!!! Goes for hundreds on Amazon!”  For that kind of pricing when a set does actually come up I don’t bother. 

Recce

Someone mentioned about Lego boxes? I like to play stacking with them. 

Bumblepants

I do have an issue with shipping labels slapped on a Lego box because it isn't strong enough to be a secure shipping carton and can easily get punctured while tossed around in whatever company is handling it. I complained to Walmart when my Horizon Express showed up looking like a raccoon had tried to eat it. It wasn't so much a concern for the packaging but how careless they were to ship it that way.

SumoLego

Bumblepants said:

...showed up looking like a raccoon had tried to eat it...

My apologies, I was hungry.

Although - I do agree that the retail LEGO box isn't sufficient to protect the contents during shipping.  LEGO themselves ship in heavier casepack boxes.  

Cyberdragon

I don't have a problem with people keeping the box, you can even use it to store or transport the sets later. I have a problem with people who just want the box alone and think it's basically sacred and can never be opened. For something that is displayed inside its box through plastic or something I guess it's OK since you would still be displaying the item. But for a model/kit building toy like Lego, Airfix, exc, not assembling and displaying the actual toy and keeping it hidden is just cringe.

Oh, and yes, I have personal experience that box collectors can go ga-ga (Bad Romance style) over ugly brown boxes too. (I've told the story here before)

msanders

I`m not sure I agree that the box is not part of the product. Lego is quite a premium product and like with other premium products, the box is also part of the product and experience. I know that it also serves purpose as packaging as well, but many companies put a lot of time and effort into the box and packaging. It actually gives another level to the experience. I love holding the box and looking at the images - even some Lego ideas sets have special boxes because Lego know that the box is also part of the premium product/experience. The highest priced products like the Falcon, and technic cars even have special boxes with additional information, places to put the instructions etc etc. I don`t think Lego at alone in this - they know the importance of good boxes/packaging. 

Therefore, I understand if people are annoyed that the shipping label is slapped on the box or there is damage. It`s awful giving a damaged box as a present to someone. Why should you not be unhappy if the box is damaged when receiving it yourself? It takes away from the experience. I get that people say what does it matter if the contents inside are OK, because most people build the set, but some don`t (and I get that as well). Not everyone understands but there is something special about seeing all of the Lego boxes displayed on shelves as a collection - like the Lego vault! Its like an art gallery. 

I keep the boxes of the more expensive Lego sets, mainly because some of them are really nice and I love looking back at the images in future years. I used to keep all boxes but that just highlights (to my wife) the level of my Lego addiction, so best I recycle them! :-)

MaffyD

I love my Lego boxes. I try to open them without using the thumb tabs because it spoils the look. I keep the sets in them afterwards so I can locate them easier (I do very little MOCing, and even then only from the same set - Rebrickable both tantalises and scares me). I would hate any of my boxes to be damaged before I get it. Each one is a present to me, and I'd like to receive the way I'd like to give. 

I think there are others who are at completely the other end of the spectrum, where the box is ripped apart, the pieces added to a generic collection (maybe after the original set is built, maybe before) and then the box is recycled.

This debate isn't about how a box should be transported, it's about the differences between people's attitude towards Lego collecting. And Vive La Difference I say, but trying to reconcile the two above positions (and all the ones in between) just isn't possible.

I shall leave you with my horror of buying multiple Benny's Space Squad sets from a store only to find they had slapped a massive sticker on the back of each one which would not peel off. I've reconciled it with the fact that I would be creating a space 'army' and only needed one pristine box, but I was very uneasy until I got that final decent box. Mad, I know!

MaffyD

Also, compare Lego to jewellery. I would be very disappointed if my wife received a damaged presentation box, even if the only thing that matters is the ring, necklace, bracelet, earrings, charms, whatever, and those are fine. Part of the experience is opening the whole thing (why unboxing YT videos exist) and Lego, as a premium product (especially the more expensive sets) is similar.

CCC

MaffyD said:

I shall leave you with my horror of buying multiple Benny's Space Squad sets from a store only to find they had slapped a massive sticker on the back of each one which would not peel off. I've reconciled it with the fact that I would be creating a space 'army' and only needed one pristine box, but I was very uneasy until I got that final decent box. Mad, I know!

For a set where I wanted to keep the box, I would not buy from places like Argos or Morrisons, where they are likely to stick on their own product identifier labels or security tags. But for small sets where I am buying for the contents, I don't care.

Last year I bought two Destiny's Bounty sets from Argos, and in store I opened them both and managed to get the contents of both sets into one box and told Argos to keep the spare empty box. It's a shame LEGO still use boxes so large  that you can fit two sets into one box.

vanvonfull

I’ve kept all of my architecture boxes as they were built to be reused, and I store them assembled (size permitting). 

The others get recycled ASAP. Only regrets are some of my childhood sets with the display windows/trays.

I’d be fine if all my sets came in ziplocks straight outta billund. 

klinton

msanders said:

Lego is quite a premium product 

MaffyD said:

 Lego, as a premium product .

I think this is precisely where the disconnect between the two camps lies.
No matter how large the build is, I don't see a marked difference between Lego and, say, those LOL dolls @SumoLego loves to collect. It's still just a mass produced building block set, meant to be used as such. Premium Lego sets do exist - the tour sets come immediately to mind - but they're not the sort of thing you'd order through a mass retailer. Anything you're ordering off of Walmart, [email protected], or Amazon is absolutely not a 'premium' item. It's just a toy. 

daewoo

jnscoelho said:

You are effectively missing the point of the comparison.

No, an actual apples to apples comparison would be if the car came in a box, and that box got dented during transit, and now you want a discount off the price of the car (even though the car itself has no damage) because the box wasn't perfect.  In the end the value is the product inside the box, not the box. 

datsunrobbie

daewoo said:

jnscoelho said:

You are effectively missing the point of the comparison.

No, an actual apples to apples comparison would be if the car came in a box, and that box got dented during transit, and now you want a discount off the price of the car (even though the car itself has no damage) because the box wasn't perfect.  In the end the value is the product inside the box, not the box. 

Not if you are buying the set as a speculative investment. Take a look at the Kenner Star Wars action figures made around 1978/79. I had most of them, and of course trashed the packaging immediately so I could play with them. Some of them have been sold for over $30,000 when kept in mint condition in the packaging. In another 50 years somebody might be willing to pay that much for a mint-in-the box #7591.

klinton

datsunrobbie said:

Not if you are buying the set as a speculative investment. Take a look at the Kenner Star Wars action figures made around 1978/79. I had most of them, and of course trashed the packaging immediately so I could play with them. Some of them have been sold for over $30,000 when kept in mint condition in the packaging. In another 50 years somebody might be willing to pay that much for a mint-in-the box #7591.

The idea that you'll ever make that kind of money off of modern toys is completely absurd though. The very reason those toys are so prized today is because nobody thought to leave toys unopened. Now, everyone and their dog thinks toys are 'investments', so there are scads of MIB specimens of literally everything released. Ask anyone trying to unload a collection of the 90s relaunch figures just how much of a cash cow they're sitting on. They sell at a loss. 

That's not even the topic at hand. I think everyone here has conceded that people looking to resell sets want a presentable package. We're talking about people who open and enjoy the product, and insist that the packaging is still somehow intrinsic to the set. It's just not.

The reason MIB toys were initially so sought after was to enable the buyer to relive the experience of opening a beloved toy. Now, it's become a cycle of just keeping toys in boxes like they're precious materials, buying and selling them over and over again in that state. Once you've opened and built a set, the condition of the opened box is irrelevant, even if you decide one day to sell your set. The condition of the interior numbered bags would be a bigger concern imho, something that can be compromised no matter how pristine you keep the outer box. 

datsunrobbie

Legomonor said:

 Since I don’t plan to open this set but keep it as a collectible, I’m not comfortable with this.

@klinton Actually, the thread was started specifically about a set bought as an investment.

CCC

klinton said:

msanders said:

Lego is quite a premium product 

MaffyD said:

 Lego, as a premium product .

I think this is precisely where the disconnect between the two camps lies.
No matter how large the build is, I don't see a marked difference between Lego and, say, those LOL dolls @SumoLego loves to collect. It's still just a mass produced building block set, meant to be used as such. Premium Lego sets do exist - the tour sets come immediately to mind - but they're not the sort of thing you'd order through a mass retailer. Anything you're ordering off of Walmart, [email protected], or Amazon is absolutely not a 'premium' item. It's just a toy. 

Maybe you don't think of Lego as a premium product, but others do. For some people it is more than a toy, it is an obsession. For others it is somewhere in between.

PS. Inside tour sets are also made to be opened.

KungFuKenny

CCC said:

PS. Inside tour sets are also made to be opened.

Sigh... I’m not slated to visit Billund until June and I already have struggled a bit with this... luckily my son is coming so we can build one IT set and keep one ”mint“.  I will (needless to say, I hope) be keeping both boxes, especially since they will likely be autographed by the designer.  Now people can argue over whether an autographed set is more desirable or valuable than an unmarked version!  :-)

SumoLego

I take it from the standpoint that people collect whatever they like.  But LEGO is a company in the business of selling product, and fielding returns due to a box crease is silly.

I'm sure LEGO will humor those folks because they have the best customer service, but it's maddening to me that they are obligated to.

(They're also obligated to sell very popular products to a LEGO-hungry populace, most of which I have no interest.)

CCC

The first sentence on their terms page for shipping and handling (at least for UK) are:

Our Commitment to You

We believe our toys and other products must meet your highest expectations - and so must our service. Our goal is your complete satisfaction with your order.

I don't think it is that unreasonable to expect a set that is delivered to be as good as a set that you purchase off the shelf in a store. It's not even a high expectation, just a reasonable one. I've had a few that were dreadful, where the set box has been absolutely crushed to the point of splitting, but the outer shipping box was fine with no apparent damage at all. If nothing else was in the box, then I find it hard to believe it happened during transport.

And if the set box is that bad, then the contents have probably been crushed too and could well be broken or bent.

Although since DPD have been delivering in the UK, I find probably 50% of boxed orders have had the shipping box crushed. I think this is partly to do with the weak boxes they are using these days, plus they are designed to fold at various points so they can choose the box size. And if they use a box with the fold up high, I find it is normal for the box to give way at a lower fold hence damaging the contents.

jnscoelho

The shipping by DPD has been much worse than before with DHL... And I've had part of the contents stolen twice already, which had never happened before.

CCC

I missed two orders just before christmas due to DPD. I was out, and their website was not allowing customers to rearrange deliveries for at least three days and DPD returned the parcels to LEGO. I'm still going through a dispute with LEGO about it, they claim they are delivered whereas tracking shows they have been delivered but to their warehouse in Poland. I know people say they have good customer service, but at least two of them do not understand tracking information.