Wedding Favour Set 40197 not promoting diversity

justb1justb1 Member Posts: 28
Thought I’d post this on here just to gather some thoughts from other members on what they thought on this matter. 
I’ve got a wedding coming up, and as a huge Lego fan I thought I would purchase the 40197 set as a gift for my close friends getting married, as not only would it be a nice momento of their day but as the Lego fan would always be a reminder it came from me. 
My issue came when I looked into the minifigures that the set contained. Quite simply 2, a man and a woman. The wedding in question is a celebration of marriage between two men. As a member of the LGBT community myself I was quite shocked by this. I always thought of Lego as being very innovative and forward thinking and I would have thought in 2019 as a strong promoter of diversity. I really would have thought they would have had the insight to include 4 mini figures, 2 men and 2 women so people can display the diverse celebrations of marriage we see in the present day. Just wondered what people thought. I’ve written to Lego directly about this and will of course feedback what they say. Are Lego not promoting diversity enough in sets? Not really thought about it before but are they also being diverse in other ways and not being for example gender stereotyping with minifigures such as nurses always being female and construction workers men? 
wardmBrickByBrick

Comments

  • datsunrobbiedatsunrobbie West Haven , CTMember Posts: 1,459
    https://forum.brickset.com/discussion/25998/women-of-nasa-can-of-worms/p7

    The dead horse meme is around the middle of the page
    oldtodd33gmonkey76SprinkleOtter
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,374
    klinton said:
    It's LEGO.... The very nature of Lego means that parts are interchangeable. If you need something not included in a given set, you can add those parts from innumerable other sources. 

    I'm still bitter that my Speed Champions sets don't include parts for building a plane. *hurrumph*
    I wish the wedding set contained a goat, so it could be given as a dowry.
    Gibbo1959davetheoxygenmanPumpkin_3CK5gmonkey76SumoLegocaterham7alexwilSprinkleOtter
  • DeMontesDeMontes North YorkshireMember Posts: 549
    I am gay and married and I guess I could also be offended that you assumed that it was a man an a women in the set.

    I saw two women in the set, one with a dress and the other in a tux.

    (ps. Im not really offended but people will see what they want to and complain anyway)
    Brainsluggeddrdavewatford1265SumoLegoToc13Jern92
  • DeMontesDeMontes North YorkshireMember Posts: 549
    On a separate note, a 'sort-of' friend of mine also complained about this and LEGO sent her another set for free. I thought it was overly nice of them but I guess they do have the best CS ever!
    Pitfall69BrainsluggedSumoLegoJern92
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,374
    ^You beat me to it, I was going to suggest calling CS and I'm sure they would send either another set or another Male/Female minifigure.
    gmonkey76SumoLegoAyliffe
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 553
    Pitfall69 said:
    klinton said:
    It's LEGO.... The very nature of Lego means that parts are interchangeable. If you need something not included in a given set, you can add those parts from innumerable other sources. 

    I'm still bitter that my Speed Champions sets don't include parts for building a plane. *hurrumph*
    I wish the wedding set contained a goat, so it could be given as a dowry.
    I'm sure that the devout Mormons are testy about the fact that it only contains one bride. 
    DeMontesdmcc0SprinkleOttereggshen560Heliport
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,374
    klinton said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    klinton said:
    It's LEGO.... The very nature of Lego means that parts are interchangeable. If you need something not included in a given set, you can add those parts from innumerable other sources. 

    I'm still bitter that my Speed Champions sets don't include parts for building a plane. *hurrumph*
    I wish the wedding set contained a goat, so it could be given as a dowry.
    I'm sure that the devout Mormons are testy about the fact that it only contains one bride. 
    Uhhhh You said "testy"  Uh huh uh huhhhh
    SumoLegoCaptainRogersBumblepantsSprinkleOtter560Heliport
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,911
    Since I think we managed to settle this little discussion, perhaps it's time to close it up before we actually need the Dead LEGO Horse w/Stormtroopers Meme.

    I respectfully request that this discussion be closed.  @Huw; @drdavewatford; @CapnRex101
    pharmjoddavetheoxygenmanLobotPitfall69madforLEGOSprinkleOttergelkster
  • justb1justb1 Member Posts: 28
    edited March 23
    Okay, so some quite harsh comments in relation to my post. Can someone possibly explain the dead Lego/stormtroopers meme to me as I don’t get the reference? Just to clarify my post wasn’t to say I was ‘offended’ by the set. It was simply to gather other people’s thoughts on whether or not by including a minifigure in a dress and one in a tuxedo, clearly depicting a man and a woman that this wasn’t promoting diversity enough.

    I hadn’t thought at the time that the beauty of Lego can lie in the imagination so the mini-figures could be what you want them to be as some people have suggested, ie man in a dress and woman in tux. I fully understand as well what people are saying about the beauty of Lego and it’s interchangabilty. I get that.

    I’ve actually asked to buy a separate ‘male’ minifigure so I can give that with the set. For all I know my friend may actually want to keep the existing figures. My whole point of the discussion was to gather people’s thoughts and have an adult conversation as if Lego are actually promoting diversity enough in sets.

    At a time when other retailers are making a stand for example card retailers openly selling mr and mr and mrs and mrs cards, gender neural clothing my point was simply to gather other people’s thoughts on whether Lego are being as forward thinking and starting to promote diversity in their sets. I’m not sure why some feel the need to put people down, and become almost rude. My post as I say was to gather people’s thoughts.

    Clearly many think Lego are or it’s not relevant because of the interchangabilty of Lego. That’s the kind of discussion I wanted. I did also ask thoughts about diversity in other ways. Thanks to those who have highlighted sets like the woman of NASA and previous minifugures. I hadn’t thought of these at the time, so yes it would seem that Lego do not stereotype in sets and are promoting diversity, which is great. 

    I love Lego and spend 1000s a year on sets, love Lego’s whole ethos. As I’ve outlined my discussion was merely to gather thoughts on whether Lego was being diverse enough based on one set that didn’t appear to me to be promoting diversity enough. For those asking for the conversation to be shut down.

    Maybe that just highlights what’s wrong in this world. Shut it all down, don’t talk about it, exclude diversity from everything. Then wonder why horrific things happen to the LGBT community around the world. I’m not asking for Lego to include gay minifugres in hundreds of sets.

    That would be ridiculous but as I say this set in particular just got me thinking that maybe just maybe if they’d included either 4 mini figures or an option to interchange them without having to buy two separate sets, then that in my opinion would be sending a great message. 

    {broken into smaller paragraphs to make it readable -- Huw}
    wardmDiggydoes
  • The_RancorThe_Rancor Dorset, UKMember Posts: 757
    Lego, particularly in the last few years, have been persistently trying to be more inclusive in sets. Such as generally more female minifigures across themes, particularly City where they are often doing jobs that in the past would've been stereotyped as for men (and seemingly there's been a few more male mini dolls in Friends etc lately). Lego also introduced more catering for disabilities such as with the wheelchair and crutches. Plus depiction of new baby moulds with both men and women. Admittedly the wedding set is one of the most obvious missed opportunities, but it's otherwise quite difficult to clearly depict sexual orientation in a minifigure. But Lego are catching up and they'll probably find a way, it's just a matter of time.
  • CaptainRogersCaptainRogers Greensboro, NCMember Posts: 734
    Lego doesn't have to represent every possibility when it comes to marriages, holidays, etc. They usually just go with the most common representation. Most weddings are between a man and a woman. They release Christmas sets but no Kwanzaa or Hanukkah sets because most people, in some way or form, celebrate Christmas. It isn't them endorsing or rejecting anyone's religion, orientation, etc. It's just a company appealing to the largest amount of people with one set.
    BrainsluggedBOBJACK_JACKBOBgmonkey76
  • PJ76ukPJ76uk Derby, UKMember Posts: 435
    A simple solution is to give the set along with two minifigures that you put together to depict them, with the vast array of parts in the Lego database I'm sure you could put together two minifigures that resemble your friends more accurately than the included figures in the set.

    There are plenty of places online to order custom parts too, one of the first figures I put together as a gift for someone had a custom Star Trek outfit to depict their other interests...
  • BOBJACK_JACKBOBBOBJACK_JACKBOB ScotlandMember Posts: 504
    I think it is unreasonable to be "quite shocked' by LEGO only including a bride and a groom in this set. 'Disappointed', 'dismayed', even 'annoyed' I would sympathise with but not 'quite shocked' This combination would suit the majority of people buying the set.
    Might I suggest a solution? If I was you I would buy two. Swap the bride for a groom on this occasion, give the two grooms set to my friends and I would be left with a ready made present for two brides getting married. I would keep that for future use as a present, offer it for sale on here or ebay or use it as part of a diversity promoting MOC celebrating a wedding between two women.
    raygunnbrickventures
  • LobotLobot UKMember Posts: 942

    I'm hoping that this thread will be closed, but being objective for a moment...

    If any product is to be truly representative they'd need to consider all demographics within the current world population (e.g. gender, age, height, weight, religion, ethnicity, disability status plus a multitude of other factors!). Then, and if you took it to the logical next step and to be totally fair, you'd need to ensure that each of these appeared in the appropriate ratios.  So, for example, minifigures would need to be aged as follows:

    • 26% would be 0-14
    • 16.3% would be 15-24
    • 49.5% would be 25-64
    • 8.2% would be 65+

    As mentioned previously, it just gets to a point where it becomes unrealistic to achieve and for me it's only reasonable to draw a line somewhere.... In my view LEGO seem to be doing a pretty decent job on that, overall.

    Toc13pharmjodCyberdragonDeMontes
  • Toc13Toc13 Member Posts: 1,048
    klinton said:

    I'm sure that the devout Mormons are testy about the fact that it only contains one bride. 
    You're thinking of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of  Latter Day Saints, which schismed off over this issue following the revocation of polygamy by the then President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1904. 
    I wont bore you with details of the 1886 revelation & how it impacted the 1890 Manifesto...

    (I'm not but my wife is a devout Mormon (or Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a recent edict insists they should be called))
    klintonMegtheCat
  • BOBJACK_JACKBOBBOBJACK_JACKBOB ScotlandMember Posts: 504
    The thread was started by @justb1. It has generated debate, stayed on topic, is currently about 24 hours old, yet two people, neither of whom are justb1, have expressed a desire to see it closed. I find that troubling.
    There are plenty of threads on this forum that don't interest me - I ignore them.
    BrainsluggedToc13dmcc0wardmmak0137MegtheCat560Heliport
  • justb1justb1 Member Posts: 28
    Okay so I think I’ve gathered enough from people’s comments that clearly it’s only me that had the thought about lack of diversity in this set. Can I ask admin now about how I close down a thread. I must say I’m somewhat shocked that an honest question on an open forum can generate so much negativity towards me as an individual and some quite harsh comments together with some quite frankly ridiculous statements about animals and polygamy.  As I stated I asked an honest question with reasons behind my questioning. To answer those who have called me selfish and the like. No I’m not. I’m merely someone who represents a minority group who would like to buy a gift for someone and have that gift represent my minority as well as the majority. Thank you to those who have posted genuine answers and opinions to my question. I
    mak0137
  • wardmwardm BelgiumMember Posts: 558
    When I saw the wedding set I thought actually the exact same thing as you @justb1 and I think the negativity in this thread is sad. 
    I just thought: if they just included two more figures, they can be used as guests, best man, etc OR they could be representative for a minority group. That way there won’t be any problem. I wasn’t shocked or anything that TLG decided to just put the ‘standard’ marriage scene in a set, I just thought of it as a tiny missed opportunity. 
    To the people saying that you should just buy another figure or get two sets: that wasn’t the point of justb1’s topic. 
    My thoughts: more diversity could’ve easily been achieved in this set, without opening a giant debate about politics. 
    Sad to see I’m apparently the only one who also thinks there could’ve been done something.
  • dmcc0dmcc0 Nae far fae AberdeenMember Posts: 736
    @justb1 you asked for opinions and people gave their opinions. I don't recall any comments that were particularly negative to you personally although plenty that didn't necessarily agree with you opinion.

    As others have said, Lego are in this to make money, therefore they'll produce sets that will appeal to the majority and keep costs as low as possible, and as far as I'm aware the majority of weddings are still between a man and a woman so makes sense their wedding set contains a man and a woman. Sure they could include  a more diverse set of figures, but that all adds to the cost and you have to draw the line somewhere. Even including 20 minifig elements you'd still have someone complain that their particular wants weren't in there.

    It would be pretty cool idea though if you bought this set in a Lego store they let you swap minifig elements for those on the BaM section so you could customise them.
    BOBJACK_JACKBOBSumoLegogmonkey76LittleLori
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,911
    edited March 23
    As a post-script, titling the discussion with 'not promoting diversity' kinda gives away atleast part of the motivation for the post.

    Transformers: The Last Knight - A Complete Assault on Your Intelligence and Senses

    Solo: Like Watching Someone Else's Vacation Videos

    Admittedly, I may be a bit defensive on this particular topic, because LEGO pushed forward through a lot of gender-pandering criticism and social pundit nonsense and kept with the Friends theme.  Their marketing and focus-group data indicated there was a significant, untapped market (particularly in the US and the EU) that was not being served by conventional LEGO product.  And now Friends sells just as well as any other theme. There is an element of high-minded social consciousness, but not everyone gets there at the same pace.  LEGO is part of the solution, not a barrier to equality.
    Pitfall69pharmjodBumblepantseggshen
  • MrJacksonMrJackson Member Posts: 322
    I have to echo @SumoLego's opinion that the discussion here has been reassuringly civil. If you want to see cutthroat insults and barbed responses, I recommend digging up the press release and especially review of the James Bond Aston Martin from last summer. Other than a few attempts at humor that are not atypical for those particular posters, the conversation has been on-topic with multiple opinions and viewpoints, of which none that I have read seem like an attack on anyone.

    The way I read it, I don't think it's that responses are an attack so much as maybe not what the OP wanted to hear.....
    BrainsluggedpharmjodRenegade007cjhgmonkey76LittleLorioldtodd33SprinkleOtterPolyphemusgelkster
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