Lego Bricks Material change

reddragontaiyo

When/if Lego does accomplish a complete changeover of it pieces to a new material, do you think it will have any impact on the values of sets made prior to that? 

Astrobricks

Not immediately, but if the new parts turned out to be more/less likely to break, or better/worse at holding their color, then I could see it having an effect.

prevere

I'm more concerned about slight color variances.

im2cre8iv

prevere said:

I'm more concerned about slight color variances.

LEGO already seems to have issues with slight color variances, so don't hold out too much hope on them getting it perfect

CCC

What do you mean by a change in material? For most parts they are sticking with ABS aren't they. Then polythene for the soft ones.

bricknation

^ he may be referring to the sugar cane plastic. 

gmonkey76

I know LEGO wanted to move away from oil based plastic. Not sure how it's going but the plant parts are just the first step. I remember taking a survey awhile back on new material for bricks.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/business/energy-environment/lego-plastic-denmark-environment-toys.amp.html 

Baby_Yoda

Yes, they are planning to have all their bricks made from plants by 2022 (I think?). Plant-like parts have already had the treatment, and although I don't have any myself, from all reports there's no discernible difference whatsoever. I imagine this new material will go under a great deal of quality control to ensure it behaves exactly the same as the current formula. Colour is probably the only area where this might differ, as we can observe this with regular bricks already such as in sand green.

DeMontes

Baby_Yoda said:

Yes, they are planning to have all their bricks made from plants by 2022 (I think?). Plant-like parts have already had the treatment, and although I don't have any myself, from all reports there's no discernible difference whatsoever. I imagine this new material will go under a great deal of quality control to ensure it behaves exactly the same as the current formula. Colour is probably the only area where this might differ, as we can observe this with regular bricks already such as in sand green.

Why would it behave any differently, It’s chemically identical, just the source of one part of the recipe has changed.

http://www.newelementary.com/2018/07/sustainable-lego-plants-made-from-sugarcane.html

Pitfall69

Try swapping Vanilla extract with Worcestershire sauce ;)

Toc13

Well, I'd notice a difference using vanilla essence rather than extract

Lyichir

Pitfall69 said:

Try swapping Vanilla extract with Worcestershire sauce ;)

 If anything it's more like swapping regular table salt for sea salt. Or organic flour for non-organic flour.

DeMontes

Lyichir said:

Pitfall69 said:

Try swapping Vanilla extract with Worcestershire sauce ;)

 If anything it's more like swapping regular table salt for sea salt. Or organic flour for non-organic flour.

Or exactly like taking ethanol from sugar cane rather than than petroleum... ;-)

Pitfall69

My comment above was just a joke, but aren't manufactured diamonds and real diamonds the same chemically? My point is that they may be the "same"; but they aren't the same. I'm no chemist, so I really don't know for sure. 

Baby_Yoda

I was thinking more in terms of what might go wrong in the part of the process that's different. Yes, there shouldn't be a chemical difference, assuming everything is done correctly. Quality control is to make sure of this. You can see in the article linked by @DeMontes that bricks don't always turn out right.

Pitfall69

Have they done any tests on longevity? We all know that bricks can "yellow" and/or become brittle over time due to a number of conditions. 

Lyichir

Pitfall69 said:

My comment above was just a joke, but aren't manufactured diamonds and real diamonds the same chemically? My point is that they may be the "same"; but they aren't the same. I'm no chemist, so I really don't know for sure. 

Regarding diamonds, manufactured diamonds and mined diamonds are pretty much the same chemically, with the main difference being that manufactured diamonds have fewer impurities. The use of the term "real" diamonds to describe mined diamonds is itself the result of massive marketing pressure by the diamond industry to maintain their scarcity-driven and often exploitative business model in the face of a cheaper and far more ethical alternative.

That's a part of why I'm impressed by Lego's foresight to investigate alternative materials—like the diamond industry, it would be far easier and cheaper for them, at least in the short term, to dig their heels in and stick to their existing way of doing business. Moving over to a cleaner and more sustainable source is a major commitment but one worth committing to sooner rather than later.

Aanchir

prevere said:

I'm more concerned about slight color variances.

I doubt that'd be any more of an issue with new plastics than with the 20 different plastics LEGO already uses (ABS, polycarbonate, SBS, polyethylene, polypropylene, polyoxymethylene, etc) especially since for over a decade they've been buying only colorless granulate and mixing and add dyes themselves prior to molding.

Baby_Yoda said:

Yes, they are planning to have all their bricks made from plants by 2022 (I think?). Plant-like parts have already had the treatment, and although I don't have any myself, from all reports there's no discernible difference whatsoever. I imagine this new material will go under a great deal of quality control to ensure it behaves exactly the same as the current formula. Colour is probably the only area where this might differ, as we can observe this with regular bricks already such as in sand green.

Slight correction — the goal is to have everything switched over by 2030, and while plant-based bioplastics are one of the most promising forms of sustainable material right now, they've also been looking at the possibility of using post-consumer recycled plastics. So far, though, there aren't suppliers of post-consumer plastic granulate that can ensure the kind of consistent material safety and quality LEGO is looking for.

Pitfall69 said:

Have they done any tests on longevity? We all know that bricks can "yellow" and/or become brittle over time due to a number of conditions. 

Since they do heat tests to simulate long-term plastic shrinkage and warping when designing actual sets, I doubt they'd be any less diligent when testing a brand-new material that they intend to release on a much wider scale than any one set.

This article from New Elementary goes into depth about some of the characteristics LEGO is looking for in any new material, many of which are ones we might not ordinarily even think of when naming the material characteristics that LEGO is known for. For example, they're hoping to closely match even the SOUND current bricks make when dropped on the floor or rattled around in a box!

steve57474

It’s touched on in the article but I sure hope they focus on sustainable resources.  Palm oil has been an ecological mess because of deforestation.

CCC

Pitfall69 said:

My comment above was just a joke, but aren't manufactured diamonds and real diamonds the same chemically? My point is that they may be the "same"; but they aren't the same. I'm no chemist, so I really don't know for sure. 

Well, chemically (if you are just talking about the atoms) graphite is the same as diamond. However, in terms of chemical bonding they are different.

Synthetic diamonds have less defects in them than natural diamonds - it doesn't have to impurities, just stacking faults in the crystal. It is really hard to fake the defects in the lab, as lab grown ones tend to be perfect. They are both 'real' diamonds (as opposed to fakes ones such as zirconia / zirconium dioxide), which is why the terms synthetic and natural are better - although of course the diamond mining and jewellery industries prefer people to think of synthetic ones as cheap knock-offs and theirs as the real thing.

CCC

Aanchir said:

prevere said:

I'm more concerned about slight color variances.

I doubt that'd be any more of an issue with new plastics than with the 20 different plastics LEGO already uses (ABS, polycarbonate, SBS, polyethylene, polypropylene, polyoxymethylene, etc) especially since for over a decade they've been buying only colorless granulate and mixing and add dyes themselves prior to molding.

Yeah, and remember that ABS is not one plastic - there are many formulations varingy both the ratios of the A to B to S and also the degree of polymerisation. ABS from different companies (or even within a company) can have different mechanical properties. They must need a lot of testing when changing suppliers, not just for mechanical properties but also for part weights. Just small changes in density will throw of their scales when checking bag weights for packing errors.

SumoLego

Lyichir said:
Regarding diamonds, manufactured diamonds and mined diamonds are pretty much the same chemically, with the main difference being that manufactured diamonds have fewer impurities.

I wish I could like this comment 10x.  If there was ever an industry that is the 'Emperor's Clothes' it's the diamond industry.

I recall reading a story about warehouses full of uncut diamonds in Russia that if ever released, would make high-quality diamonds so common that they'd be essentially worthless.

There is some irony in that manufactured diamonds are objectively better quality - and are better for industrial applications.

blokey9

there are vaults all over the world full of uncut diamonds. not just in Russia.

Baby_Yoda

Perhaps Lego should start making their bricks from diamond, then.

SumoLego

I wouldn't want to step on one of those in the middle of the night!

Yuk yuk yuk!

gmonkey76

But then would LEGO still be more valuable than gold?

SumoLego

gmonkey76 said:

But then would LEGO still be more valuable than gold?

Alanis Morissette's head just exploded.

Pitfall69

Thanks guys, that answered some of my questions. Unfortunately, I'm not blessed with 'infinite' knowledge...even on a day like today ;) I took chemistry and physics many...many years ago and I have lost most of what I learned back then. 

560Heliport

^ and you're still ahead of most people! I tried to explain to a co-worker once why water won't burn- "It's made of hydrogen, right? So it should burn!" I tried to tell him water is burned hydrogen- i.e., combined with oxygen. He scoffed. (sigh)

TheOriginalSimonB

Synthetic diamonds = Lepin.  Got the design spot on but none of the soul of a natural one...

CCC

560Heliport said:

^ and you're still ahead of most people! I tried to explain to a co-worker once why water won't burn- "It's made of hydrogen, right? So it should burn!" I tried to tell him water is burned hydrogen- i.e., combined with oxygen. He scoffed. (sigh)

You could always split water (via electrolysis rather than with a knife) then burn the gases given off to form more water! Keep them in the same tube and the hydrogen / oxygen mix burns nicely.

Pitfall69

Ok guys, now you're making my head explode. All I really want to know is if O can eat the trees that came with my Vestas Wind Turbine?

CCC

You can eat just about anything you can fit in your mouth.

Pitfall69

CCC said:

You can eat just about anything you can fit in your mouth.

Wow. That's a lot of stuff!!!

SumoLego

CCC said:

You can eat just about anything you can fit in your mouth.

And if you try real hard, some things larger than your mouth.

jmeninno

^That's what...never mind.

Lyichir

TheOriginalSimonB said:

Synthetic diamonds = Lepin.  Got the design spot on but none of the soul of a natural one...

I would think that, if anything, Lepin would be natural diamonds. Worse quality and probably produced under more exploitative labor conditions.

Switchfoot55

Pitfall69 said:

Ok guys, now you're making my head explode. All I really want to know is if O can eat the trees that came with my Vestas Wind Turbine?

Only if you eat them out of old/reused parts bags. Pack a lunch full of those bags. Some chili in bag 1, baked potato in bag 2, and a nice salad of large and small pine trees. Yum!