Rollercoaster project - combining sets and motorizing it

Phantom107

I've started a big LEGO project where my objective is to create an ever more complex and cool rollercoaster. I'm challenging myself not only to get it all working on a technical level and properly built, but I am also bigtime into design and I want it to be interesting and cool.

What I've bought so far:
2x #10261 Rollercoaster set
2x #8883 M-motor
1x #8878 Battery
1x #8871 Extension Wire

Phantom107

I've built a single #10261 to get the hang of it and to study options. I've worked on the new track layout in SketchUp, I think it's pretty cool. I maximized the drops in the table space that I have. I will start to build it out in a bad way to see if it even works out like this, iterate on it, then get into properly building

Closely modeled the track pieces, put it up 2 times as I have the set 2 times:


Using the pieces I've come up with the following design:

Switchfoot55

Looks great! Excited to see your project come together!

Paperballpark

Looks good! Having played Rollercoaster Tycoon extensively about 15 years ago though, I'm worried about the ability of your coaster to make it through the series of humps right at the end of the track.

PapaBear

I'm also planning a giant rollercoaster with 5x #10261 combined.   My plans for now are to leave the left side virtually unchanged and add on to the right side.  I'm going to extend the lift from it's normal height which will save me the pain of trying to introduce another mechanical lift to a different section.

ecmo47

Are you sure you want to make it a square base? Seems like that would be hard to find a pace for it to set and display. Theme park coasters are commonly long and skinny. This will be a fun project to follow! Also, I saw somebody posted pictures of a deluxe coaster that had a loop in it. I'll see if I can find it again. 

Phantom107

PapaBear said:

I'm going to extend the lift from it's normal height which will save me the pain of trying to introduce another mechanical lift to a different section.

Isn't that challenge part of the fun? I kinda solved this already simply by getting 2 motors. 

ecmo47 said:

Are you sure you want to make it a square base? Seems like that would be hard to find a pace for it to set and display. Theme park coasters are commonly long and skinny. This will be a fun project to follow! Also, I saw somebody posted pictures of a deluxe coaster that had a loop in it. I'll see if I can find it again. 

The measurements are actually already from the space it's going to be in! The challenge will be the 'overhanging' bits that go over the laid out green plates.

I saw the coaster with the loop too, it's pretty incredible. I want to do that to someday as I expand it further:

I also found this one where they combined the set 6 times: 
What strikes me as odd in this one is that they show the track design in 3D at the end, which means they surely planned it out, but the track design looks really boring in my opinion. They really could've made some nice long drops, I'm not sure why they chose it to do this way (or simply couldn't envision)

madforLEGO

Ill tell you one thing. LEGO is loving this now, people buying one 380 USD set is one thing, but people likely buying 5+ of them???

They are having joy-gasms in their accounting dept.

PapaBear

Phantom107 said:

What strikes me as odd in this one is that they show the track design in 3D at the end, which means they surely planned it out, but the track design looks really boring in my opinion. They really could've made some nice long drops, I'm not sure why they chose it to do this way (or simply couldn't envision)

I was initially going to say that they probably did it because there are only 7 slope pieces in the whole set, but then I see they had 6 sets to work with!!!  They definitely ran out of those round white pieces first.

madforLEGO said:

Ill tell you one thing. LEGO is loving this now, people buying one 380 USD set is one thing, but people likely buying 5+ of them???

They are having joy-gasms in their accounting dept.

Yea, I'm really kicking myself now that there are people on Bricklink with 100+ piece counts of the track.  I knew the white round bricks were plentiful, but a few weeks ago the track cost 40-50% of the set if you were to Bricklink it.  The track was the gamble I took and I lost big time.

Phantom107

Yes they should’ve cut down on the height, which eats up more and more of the white pieces as it goes and focussed on the drops.

I tore down the built set and unpacked the 2nd, I love the track pieces these weren’t around when I was a kid for sure.
 

Phantom107

You really have to plan things out with this, here is the SketchUp file incase any of you want to do a similar thing (PapaBear): http://guusthissen.nl/lego/track concept 2.skp

Open it up and edit with SketchUp, it's free: https://www.sketchup.com/

PapaBear

No way man, I'm winging it

Phantom107

Good luck with that, it would be pretty amazing if that works out with a large track!

I already ran into problems, turns out my track isn’t separated enough vertically to let a train through... this calls for a redesign of the entire thing. 

eMJeeNL

Are you going to implement the PirateShip in the back on the ride? Lego already did so, it's called #31084 Pirate Coaster.

;)

I'll follow your project closely, and with great admiration. Will get my own #10261 on the 4th of August, and guess will stay with the original design for the layout. Good luck!

Phantom107

eMJeeNL said:

Are you going to implement the PirateShip in the back on the ride? Lego already did so, it's called #31084 Pirate Coaster.

;)

I'll follow your project closely, and with great admiration. Will get my own #10261 on the 4th of August, and guess will stay with the original design for the layout. Good luck!

That's actually a great idea, my track space is limited cause of the ship in the background... if I integrate it the track can be bigger (see post here btw: https://forum.brickset.com/discussion/comment/582612#Comment_582612)

However when going even taller I might run into problems with a lack of the round white bricks, will prototype some more first!

Cyberdragon

Just buy more white bricks, they're definately cheaper than track. (Or is that cheating?)

PapaBear

Phantom107 said:

Good luck with that, it would be pretty amazing if that works out with a large track!

I already ran into problems, turns out my track isn’t separated enough vertically to let a train through... this calls for a redesign of the entire thing. 

Well my design is in my head so far and I've not come across any problems as you have.

:P

Phantom107

No additional white bricks, I've decided to keep it with these 2 sets plus the power functions. 

Plan B is a go, this time I took the vertical differences in track height into account and kept it better in the space available. There's a cool bit in it where the corner pieces are banked, an idea I shamelessly took from here: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/161002-10261-lego-creator-expert-roller-coaster/&do=findComment&comment=2977882 

First test will be to see if it can even make the corner like that, maybe it doesnt have enough speed...

Another problem is at the very end of the track where it has to go back up a level to enter the station

Paperballpark

Will it have enough momentum when exiting the station to get around the first bend?

Phantom107

The 'double track' at the station is for a spare train, just like in the original set. When the train leaves it actually gets launched from the station (they made a really amazing mechanic, check the manual) and makes the corner easily. When the 'stop' wheel at the station is retracted, the train should still have enough momentum to pass the station and enter a new lap. (reference: http://www.brickmagic.asia/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/10261_Front_01-600x600.jpg)

Alright so I tried the corner bank and it passes it very comfortably, I recorded it slow-motion 240 fps: https://youtu.be/V3mJx1JVkXo

SumoLego

madforLEGO said:

They are having joy-gasms in their accounting dept.

It really depends on the margin.  The accounting department has probably been doing cartwheels over Brickheadz and Constractables...

gmonkey76

Phantom107 said:

Alright so I tried the corner bank and it passes it very comfortably, I recorded it slow-motion 240 fps: https://youtu.be/V3mJx1JVkXo

Have to say I love the very end of the video. It made me laugh thinking about what then Minifigures must be thinking. 

Djblythe05

Great stuff, how I wish I had the space to get this set. 

Phantom107

I made it a complete track but unfortunately it doesn’t make it.... So I’ll think about somehow making the chainlift taller or something or figure something else out...

I had hoped it had more momentum.

https://youtu.be/kWXMk5bE8fs

ReesesPieces

Seeing this makes me want the coaster too!  But if I get this set, I'll want another to make it bigger.  Then, I'll want the ferris wheel.  If I get the ferris wheel, I'll want to get the carousel...it is like the children's book "If you give a mouse a cookie."

nexander

Phantom107 said:

I made it a complete track but unfortunately it doesn’t make it.... So I’ll think about somehow making the chainlift taller or something or figure something else out...

I had hoped it had more momentum.

https://youtu.be/kWXMk5bE8fs

Try and see if there is any way you can reduce the weight of the carts, that might be enough. Even try without the figs to see, if it does go to work on the carts and add the figs back in

Phantom107

Without the minifigs it makes it to the next lap, at the last bit it’s almost crawling but it makes it.

I’m now trying some other techniques, I realized the corner banking technique can be extended with straight pieces, then the slope pieces can be used to increase the chainlift section! 



I love the rollercoaster set, I think there’s a market for LEGO brining out a whole new coaster some other time, with the same color scheme, that people can also get to combine, just like with the LEGO modular buildings. But maybe that’s just me...

Phantom107

I’ve increased the first chainlift bit one slope-piece to elevate the height of the track, then I tried bringing the sloped corners concept to the next level by introducing a bend where it goes almost straight down for a bit, unfortunately this displaces the pillars of the track so I don’t know if this will work out at all but it’s definitely pushing the track design
 

I have a problem with the smoothness of the curve when it goes back straight, as you will see in the vid here:

https://youtu.be/p8yvoLLNEOc

Brainslugged

I'm loving the daredevil leap at the end

Switchfoot55

^Agreed! Made all the better by the slow-mo!

PapaBear

Added a bit to my coaster.  I hope you all like my super detailed and well labeled design layout.

Phantom107

Are you now going to outdo me in my own thread? :P

I couldn't make the bend work without too much loss of momentum, now trying out variations of a more toned down design to allow the trains to run on track for a longer time

PapaBear

Phantom107 said:

Are you now going to outdo me in my own thread? :P

Hey, competition breeds.........something

To be fair, you hadn't given us an update in 2 days and I didn't know if you were still alive

mathew

Phantom107 said:

What strikes me as odd in this one is that they show the track design in 3D at the end, which means they surely planned it out, but the track design looks really boring in my opinion. They really could've made some nice long drops, I'm not sure why they chose it to do this way (or simply couldn't envision)

I don't claim to be an expert but physics plays a big role in designing a roller coaster.  My guess is that light weight plastic bricks can't achieve the velocity, weight etc. that allows for a traditional coaster design.  I'm sure Lego designers experimented with a lot of designs before they settled on the one that worked best.

Phantom107

mathew said:

Phantom107 said
...

I don't claim to be an expert but physics plays a big role in designing a roller coaster.  My guess is that light weight plastic bricks can't achieve the velocity, weight etc. that allows for a traditional coaster design.  I'm sure Lego designers experimented with a lot of designs before they settled on the one that worked best.

I like LEGO’s design a lot, I’ve been playing with the track/car physics and they maxed what’s possible, the set is very cool on its own already. What I was talking about is what they made in the video I linked to in that post where’s they combined a bunch of sets, but it was totally uninspired and they didn’t do anything interesting at all with the design. Not the loop one, that is amazing and uses only 3 sets too.

@PapaBear competition breeds excellence :) 
I’ll post findings whenever I figure something out. I’m the CTO of a company so not a lot of time...

But yeah feel free to post! This is even more fun as a community thing 

Phantom107

Alright so after a bunch of tweaking I’ve come to a track layout that works for me. Normally I design everything out in 3D but this time it was actually better to simply use the LEGOs themselves and play with it.

Here’s the track:

https://youtu.be/Fr9x0jd5Td4

Next up is carefully studying the manual to figure out a nice way to make the double chainlift without running out of the white round pieces... and also making a nice way to put up the green plates.

Phantom107

Alright I'm back to planning mode, I put up the design in 3D and used that to come up with a proper layout for the green tiles, it's a perfect fit.

eMJeeNL

How are you going to make the chainlift turn the corner?

Phantom107

eMJeeNL said:

How are you going to make the chainlift turn the corner?

Using the same mechanism with the wheels that the coaster uses at the top:

eMJeeNL

Aah, that should do the trick nicely. I was thinking about using much longer carriages, so the front one would be picked up by the second lift before the last one leaves the first lift. This would be much more efficient. :)

Keep us posted!

eMJeeNL

PapaBear said:

Added a bit to my coaster.  I hope you all like my super detailed and well labeled design layout.

Think of the horror on the MiniFigs faces before taking that ascent! ;)

Phantom107

I have very little free time but I got to making the first chainlift (poorly) to see how it all matches up... I recorded a vid of it because I love how the chainlift design of this set works. Next up is (poorly) making the chainlift on the large section to see if I have enough white round pieces to make it through the whole track... I am limiting myself just to the two sets and a few powerfunctions parts to keep it all as pure as possible for now. 

https://youtu.be/90aWrC_2K1I

Phantom107

I put up the double chainlift proof-of-concept, it works well for the most part. I’ve built it at the front of my desk but the whole thing will be rotated so the large lift is against the wall. I’m loving the building progress and constant iterations. Even if it’s very messy like it is right now.

Vid: https://youtu.be/XRap6QkXZoI

eMJeeNL

Wow. Cool. Just started building mine; cant wait to see your XXL version finished! Those columns are huge, how are you going to stabilize them?

Phantom107

eMJeeNL said:

Wow. Cool. Just started building mine; cant wait to see your XXL version finished! Those columns are huge, how are you going to stabilize them?

Same way the original set has it with the clip-beams that hold the columns together. Right now it's all prototype, trying to get it to work... Once the layout is finalized and all the foundations are in place (I love the way it's done in the set), I can start to figure out just how much LEGOs are left to make the clip-beams 

Phantom107

Turns out I do need to take the construction into account right away cause while testing it again it started to shake and in an instant the whole thing collapsed on itself, fell to the right and crashed into the the rest of the track... lol...

datsunrobbie

I've built several coasters with K'Nex, and one thing I found is that "X" bracing tends to make a much more durable structure than just making boxes. I'd imagine this applies with making Lego coasters as well.

Astrobricks

datsunrobbie said:

I've built several coasters with K'Nex, and one thing I found is that "X" bracing tends to make a much more durable structure than just making boxes. I'd imagine this applies with making Lego coasters as well.

That actually applies to building literally anything. Triangles are just way more sturdy than rectangles.

Phantom107

Yea so I think those triangle braces are not in just cause they look good, they are definately in because of necessity.

From the manual:

ricecake

These coasters are amazing! I can't wait to see the final version.

The thing with triangles for stability is that if you fix the length of the sides, then this also fixes the angles. This is not true for four or more sides. Think about taking a square and pushing one side to form a rhombus or diamond shape.

Addicted2Oxygen

Been having some fun experimenting with the rollercoaster track pieces. A very quick and dirty build. The columns use a frightening number of bricks! You can see which columns I started optimistically with and which ones I finished with a lack of pieces. There is also some tension at the back where to 2 red down pieces are. I assume I am out somewhere. 

I have also also gained great respect for the designer of the official set being able to make something that goes all the way around. 

Next experiment will be making a motorised chain lift - once I find all the suitable parts.