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Tampered Boxes

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Comments

  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Getting back on track, I think comparing a £30 lego set to a £700 phone or medicine are quite a way off.
    I also think that we are blowing the problem up considerably. You have to remember that we as a community buy thousands upon thousands of these sets and the amount of issues such as these are very few and far between.

    Coming back to the fact that this is a toy, how many other toys in the store have any more protection than Lego?

    We lose track I believe of the fact that this is plastic bricks in a box.

    Any company has to weigh up decisions like packaging, considering the value of the contents and the audience they are targeted at I believe that the packaging is sufficient and if I ever did receive one that had been opened, I would take it back and swap it and think nothing more.
    Spending extra on every sets packaging (7 sold every SECOND) to protect a few pounds worth of plastic bricks makes little sense, I would guess it costs them a tiny tiny fraction of that to replace a few every now and then.
    SirKevbagslucian
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    I think they could do more with the packaging to make it more secure. If they did though I think it would increase prices.

    So X amount of people miffed because they have a tampered set.

    Y amount of people unhappy because prices are raised to increase security. I think there would be more in the Y column.
    princedraven
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    Even with the window, there will be ways around it. Stuffing the manual in front of it so it looks like contents have moved around will soon cover it. Now anyone in the know will not take that set, but the general person would still pick it up.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    An extension of personal responsibility is that to protect themselves, customers should open sets before paying for them, so they can check they are what they claim to be.
    lucian
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Why do you believe they are "not addressing the anti-theft packaging issue", they have almost certainly reviewed and checked the effectiveness of their packaging and are happy with the current balance.

    I think the suggestion that the tiny amount of instances of this happening is "doing nothing but hurting its customers and its image" is quite frankly silly.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    I don't think I have ever had a tampered box with dog food / megabloks / etc. I had one from a tesco order once that was damaged with parts missing. But it was so cheap, it was worth keeping for the parts. I have avoided buying boxes in store where they had obviously been re-taped.

    Yet virtually everything I buy I open within a day or so anyway. If it had junk in it, I'd return it.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    edited September 2013
    I really do think that a lot of people here (myself included at times) lose sight of reality. We are too close to the subject matter to see it.

    Little Timmy's mum goes to TRU and buys Lego.
    Upon opening the set Timmy finds some scumbag has replaced the parts with whatever.
    Does's Timmy's mum think:
    A) I cannot believe the scumbag did such a thing.
    B) I cannot believe that TRU put a returned (previously opened) toy back on the shelf.
    C) I cannot believe Lego have not provided the toy in a package that is completely tamperproof.

    I'm thinking A with a touch of B, but once TRU replace the item the lasting feeling is A.
    I honestly do not believe for a second 99.9% of parents would EVER expect a box of plastic bricks would come in tamper proof boxes.

    So I honestly do not think this is an 'image' issue.

    Remember 7 sets sold per second..... We have maybe half a dozen instances amongst the thousands of the most vocal of all Lego buyers, over the course of a few years!
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    The word fault isn't a good one here as it suggests some wrong doing. LEGO haven't done anything wrong, rather they could perhaps do something better. Responsibility would be a better word, LEGO do need to take some and I suspect they are. When the problem becomes big enough they'll take action I'm sure - however as said is the problem big enough yet? How often is it occurring really and how much harm does it cause when it does?

    I can't imagine anyone not being able to successfully return a swapped out box to any retailer. Sure its an inconvenience but not exactly a massive problem. As someone suggested earlier in the thread I would feel awful for anyone who opened a present on Christmas morning to find the contents swapped - especially Christmas as it could be a while before you got them replaced (the same would be almost as true for a set with missing parts).

    Whose fault? Clearly the scumbag thief and I would add the retailer who has also done something wrong - putting on sale something they aren't reasonably sure is the real product. Anecdotally it does seem to happen more in the US than UK/Europe.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    If the re-seal fooled a clued up AFOL, then a store assistant has no chance.

    madforLEGOLegoFanTexasLegoMom1
  • FenrisAkashiFenrisAkashi Member Posts: 242
    edited September 2013
    I think probably the biggest disconnect here and the reason a lot of people put this back on Lego is we have had superior packaging the past with the flip front boxes.

    @Princedraven "I think the suggestion that the tiny amount of instances of this happening is "doing nothing but hurting its customers and its image" is quite frankly silly."

    Your next post makes a lot of assumptions about what your average consumer thinks when they open a bad box.
    I'm doing the same. If I weren't a "clued up" Lego fan I would put this negative experience in my mind tied to purchasing Lego.
    We are both just assuming based on our personal knowledge\experience.

    So if you think its silly that's your prerogative but just know your essentially on the same footing.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    @FenrisAkashi Fair enough, not something either of us will be able to prove one way or another I suppose. Wasn't meant as a personal dig, just think we have a skewed view of the experience.
  • margotmargot Member Posts: 2,310
    Another thread derails into petty arguing....this will go back and forth for several pages with people making the same exact arguments stated in a slightly different way... Zzzzzzzzzz
  • FenrisAkashiFenrisAkashi Member Posts: 242
    ^ I think Draven and I are done, having said our bits. Forums typically are about debating viewpoints. Not sure what value your post serves to the original topic myself.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    edited September 2013
    ^ @FenrisAkashi Yep, all good here! :-)
  • coachiecoachie South WalesMember Posts: 476
    I bought a #7939 from a department store in July 2011 about 50% off. there was a repaired rip in the front of the box and a sticker on the box - "minor fault, sold as seen - non refundable". A few parts fallen out, no probs so I thought....

    I left it for my son for Christmas that year and when it came to opening it I noticed some very fine sellotape along the seal of the box. Turned out the train motor, battery box, remote controller, train wheels and bumpers were missing.

    Fortunately we also had a #7938 so were rolling without too much drama, but the retailers answer was for me to contact LEGO for replacements and was not even prepared to do this on my behalf (my preferred solution)
    So much for the customer always being right.

    I ended up buying the parts from LEGO directly. as I couldn't face the humiliation of the phone call (I bought this set and all the rare/expensive/juicy pieces are missing)

    I'll not buy from that dodgy corner shop again.



  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    coachie said:

    I bought a #7939 from a department store in July 2011 about 50% off. there was a repaired rip in the front of the box and a sticker on the box - "minor fault, sold as seen - non refundable". A few parts fallen out, no probs so I thought....

    Surely you should have looked inside the box first if it was non-refundable once purchased? I would have asked to open it to check the expensive parts are there.
    lucian
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    I have bought a few sets that have been damaged or obviously resleald with tape. I take the box to the counter and ask if I can check the contents, never had a problem with that and normally get a bit of an extra discount too.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2013

    LEGO is going to use shoddy protection on their packaging that they know is inferior then they are just as to blame for those who open a box and find dog food.
    I think they asked the scumbags to stop, and they will not (cause they are scumbags), so it falls on the manufacturer to install some confidence in their product packaging to know that what you are getting is really what is supposed to be there.

    You probably believe that spoons make people fat, too.

    (some) people are scumbags. How is this any different than stealing? Lego could put sets in Titanium lockboxes. Still their fault if a scumbag steals the lockbox?

    The problem here is that the scam is far too easy to do. Lego doesn't put great (or even good) controls on their boxes, and retailers have a wide range of processes for returning items, i.e. what gets checked. Then there's the individual retail return person. That person has to be aware of lots of things to make a quality check on the return: Is the box opened? Are the seals intact? Have the broken seals been "healed" by carefully-cut packaging tape? Is it the proper weight? Does it sound right when shaken? (dog food - that's hilarious but sad considering the thought that went into the scam). Now multiply that by the thousands of other items they sell, each with different security controls.

    At the end of the day it's up to Lego and the retailers to put proper controls in place to protect themselves from being scammed.

    @madforLEGO I love the window idea. Even a relatively small window in the top of the box would be enough. A consumer being able to see the actual product might actually increase the on-the-spot marketability of the set too.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    tensor said:



    @madforLEGO I love the window idea. Even a relatively small window in the top of the box would be enough. A consumer being able to see the actual product might actually increase the on-the-spot marketability of the set too.

    It wouldn't be enough.

    Carefully open the box. Slit a bag. Remove the minifigs / expensive parts. Heat seal the bag again. Replace. Seal box as before. Return.

  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    They have windows in the Brickmaster books.
    Doesn't really stop people from opening, taking out what they want and then resealing? If anything it would probably give a false impression that just because you can see some bricks it is all there.
    Yellowcastlelucian
  • chromedigichromedigi Member Posts: 344
    tensor said:

    @madforLEGO I love the window idea. Even a relatively small window in the top of the box would be enough. A consumer being able to see the actual product might actually increase the on-the-spot marketability of the set too.

    I, too, miss the windows. But windows also run counter to the trend to sell more expensive sets in bigger boxes. A window could show you just how much air you are getting for your money.
    gifinim
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    CCC said:

    tensor said:



    @madforLEGO I love the window idea. Even a relatively small window in the top of the box would be enough. A consumer being able to see the actual product might actually increase the on-the-spot marketability of the set too.

    It wouldn't be enough.

    Carefully open the box. Slit a bag. Remove the minifigs / expensive parts. Heat seal the bag again. Replace. Seal box as before. Return.

    I never wrote that it would be enough. The fact is, nothing is enough, and there is absolutely nothing that can be done that will stop the master thief. The best that Lego/retailers can do is to make it more difficult so as to minimize the occurrence.
    madforLEGO
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2013
    Ok, actually I did write that it would be enough :)

    I didn't mean that it would be enough to stop the thievery fully. I meant that it would be enough to take it to the next level of protection. I.e. if you can see inside the box, that's a gargantuan step to allow people to determine if the contents are kosher, or, as I indicated in the comment above, kosher enough to stop everyone except for the most devious, surgical thieves.
    madforLEGO
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    It's not enough though. If anything, it does lull you into a false sense of security.

    It is easy to slit a bag and reseal it. Even with tape, it would be hard to spot if placed behind another bag. Or slip the manual in between the bags, so you can only see a couple of bags, then have a bag of dog food behind the manual.

    For me, I'm not that bothered if a seal has been tampered with as I will spot it as soon as I open the box. For a family at Christmas, it is awful, but still easy to return to the store if not bought too far ahead. For collectors of boxes and resellers, maybe more problematic.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2013
    CCC said:

    It's not enough though. If anything, it does lull you into a false sense of security.

    It is easy to slit a bag and reseal it. Even with tape, it would be hard to spot if placed behind another bag. Or slip the manual in between the bags, so you can only see a couple of bags, then have a bag of dog food behind the manual.

    For me, I'm not that bothered if a seal has been tampered with as I will spot it as soon as I open the box. For a family at Christmas, it is awful, but still easy to return to the store if not bought too far ahead. For collectors of boxes and resellers, maybe more problematic.

    That depends on how prevalent it is, and how many people would go to the levels that you describe. I consider those people outright thieves, and also the ones that cannot be stopped in general, only hindered. I would also hope that those vermin are very, very rare, otherwise we'd be hearing about them a lot more given the simplicity of the security these days.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    I don't think it is very prevalent. Not prevalent enough to introduce new (or old) style window packaging. If you (the thief, not you) are going to the effort of carefully opening boxes and resealing them now then having a window is not going to deter you.
    chromedigilucian
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,540
    edited September 2013
    I think it happens more often than people think.
    I know the LEGO store by me has seen far more than once or twice.

    Many times I have gotten a box from LEGO where the seal has peeled off by itself, that is inexcusable.
    There is better tape. I have seen it, it is not a myth and not the cost of titanium. Heck, use a stickier larger tape the size of the box flap, or double-sided tap under the flap of the box and box itself, not outside the box. Tape that shows obvious signs it was peeled off. Do not laminate the cardboard box where the stickers are applied so it will not peel off as easy. Or perhaps GLUE the boxes. I mean whatever the effort, make the effort.
    Otherwise they are just saying 'we know of an obvious fault with our boxes and their seals but we do not care if people are stealing our product'.

    Again, I get that people are scumbags and they should be punished for theft, and that if you build a better lock then someone may come up with a better way around it. However what I am hearing in some comments is 'Why bother, LEGO should not have to try to deter thieves' in which case why use tape at all?
    Just put the sets in a ziplock baggie on the shelf. Apparently it is thought of as a victimless crime anyway, so what is the harm right? (the person just simply takes it back to the store and gets another). I find some of the previous statements to be a bit hypocritical to be honest, "Thieves are rotten scumbags and should be caught, but LEGO should not try to help deter or STOP them from being thieves in the first place".

    For a company to use 4 crappy small stickers that fall off just due to moisture is ridiculous and just is not enough IMO.

    It is just like an alarm on a car. Is it going to deter ALL thieves? No, of course not, but you will stop the majority of them. That is the name of the game, deterrence, and IMO LEGO is not doing enough. Four little stickers on an enormous box is not enough.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311
    edited September 2013

    I find some of the previous statements to be a bit hypocritical to be honest, "Thieves are rotten scumbags and should be caught, but LEGO should not try to help deter or STOP them from being thieves in the first place".

    Where is that said?

    It is a balance. Of course the boxes should be sealed, but how much extra are you willing to pay for it? 25c on a $12 set? An extra $1 on the same set? $5 on a $100 set?

    I think it happens more often than people think.
    I know the LEGO store by me has seen far more than once or twice.

    If lego staff have been duped into taking back an opened box thinking it is sealed, then it shows that people are going to lengths to cover up theft. It must be pretty good to fool someone who makes a living selling the stuff. Whatever lego do, using windows, more tape, different tape, they are not going to stop that.

    I can guarantee that if they used stronger tape that you had to physically rip off the box damaging the box in opening it, then there would be complaints that lego has changed to a seal that damages boxes when you open them, so they cannot be kept in pristine condition by the box collector.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    It's called risk appetite. Comments such as "I mean whatever the effort, make the effort." are just plain pointless, no company in the world will make business decisions based upon this thinking or else they will go out of business quickly.
    There is a potential issue (one that is miniscule in my opinion) that people can open the toy tamper and take back. TLG have probably assessed the situation, considered options and are happy with the currently risk/benefit balance.
    Oh and in all my experience (I have bought far too many sets) I have never had stickers so much as peel, let alone fall off.
    I honestly don't think the stickers are there as a deterrent to theft.
    lucian
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Also again you are comparing a car with plastic bricks......
    Take a step back and consider that comparison and think about whether the car manufacturer should be concerned about theft more or less than the company selling plastic bricks to children...
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768

    Otherwise they are just saying 'we know of an obvious fault with our boxes and their seals but we do not care if people are stealing our product'.

    Or maybe they are saying no box can be perfect, there are some unsavory people who will do whatever is required to steal our product, however based upon our current research we currently have 0.xx% returns because of tampering and believe this is currently an acceptable level.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2013
    CCC said:

    I don't think it is very prevalent. Not prevalent enough to introduce new (or old) style window packaging. If you (the thief, not you) are going to the effort of carefully opening boxes and resealing them now then having a window is not going to deter you.

    Of course it's not going to deter the heat-sealers, but that's not the buck that will give Lego and the retailers (and us, vicariously) the biggest bang. It's a matter of stopping the casual thief who currently has it way too easy. Making it hard for the casual thief causes them to either stop or become hardcore, the latter being something I hope they would be unwilling to do.
  • chromedigichromedigi Member Posts: 344
    tensor said:

    Making it hard for the casual thief causes them to either stop or become hardcore, the latter being something I hope they would be unwilling to do.

    Unfortunately, something tells me that the dog food packing contingent and their ilk are already hardcore.

    Honestly, this thread is giving me the willies, as I have a fair number of as-yet-unopened sets sitting in storage. I've always hated when LEGO packaging proved hard to open without inflicting box damage, but then I haven't (yet) encountered scam contents in the easier-to-deal-with taped boxes. Maybe I need to rethink this position, even though I still hate it (and also blister packs a la Speedorz).

    The thing is, yes, I liked LEGO's old window-style boxes, but I just have my doubts that they (or for that matter, any box redesign) would actually have much effect on these people. If you're already in the habit of replacing contents, you can find ways of partially raiding even a windowed box such that it looks, feels and sounds legit. I'm not sure there even is a good solution to the problem other than having the retail stores inspect returns. But they no doubt look at it as not cost-effective vs. the occasional loss, which it probably isn't to them.

    Now, blister packs are another story entirely. But I can't see any but the smallest sets ever being handled in that fashion.
  • pantboypantboy EnglandMember Posts: 211

    I blame the resellers [runs behind sofa to hide] :p
    LegoFanTexas
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,540
    edited September 2013

    Also again you are comparing a car with plastic bricks......
    Take a step back and consider that comparison and think about whether the car manufacturer should be concerned about theft more or less than the company selling plastic bricks to children...

    Fine, insert 'other toy that is currently not stolen due to flimsy tape seals' here..
    Whether it is a 99 cent hot wheels car or a 100K sportscar.
    The name of the game is to deter theft, or should be, otherwise we all pay more.

    It's called risk appetite. Comments such as "I mean whatever the effort, make the effort." are just plain pointless, no company in the world will make business decisions based upon this thinking or else they will go out of business quickly.
    There is a potential issue (one that is miniscule in my opinion) that people can open the toy tamper and take back. TLG have probably assessed the situation, considered options and are happy with the currently risk/benefit balance.
    Oh and in all my experience (I have bought far too many sets) I have never had stickers so much as peel, let alone fall off.
    I honestly don't think the stickers are there as a deterrent to theft.

    I have bought many many sets as well and have found that even one sticker peeling is one too many.

    I see a pattern of trivializing theft here, but yet everyone calling thieves scum.. so it is a bit interesting. Maybe I used the wrong word in 'hypocritical' earlier, but it is interesting to say the least.

    It should be the best interest of a company to try to thwart thieves.
    It benefits them, the stores that sell their product, and the consumer.
    Same with stores as well, but if people are doing this outside of a store, then stores will have a hard time with this, and it is up to the product maker to try to deter this.
    To not upgrade security on the boxes tells me that LEGO does not care if people are getting their product for free.
    If that is the case, then I would like them to send me every set for free.
    Now I know that is extreme, and I do not expect such action, but the point here is this: If LEGO really is going to continue to reward theft by not trying to deter it, then why on earth are people paying 150 dollars for a set (other than being a responsible member of society)?
    I think it can be said that if someone finds an easier something to take advantage of they will do so. So make it harder.

    Also if people are stealing to resell it on eBay then doesn't this also, in a twisted way, violate their rules on reselling without authorization to do so? Then they should take it as seriously as they are taking reselling, no?

    Ultimately, it is about DETERRING theft. You can never eliminate it, but that does not mean you do not TRY to reduce the loss (regardless if it is a plastic toy).
  • sweetness34sweetness34 San Diego, CA.Member Posts: 327
    The comparison to the car theft vs returned Lego does not work for me. When you buy a car you know what you are getting compared to a sealed box of Lego.

    Unless you compare buying a car sight unseen and get it delivered to your home, and then pop the hood and find someone had pilfered the motor and then returned the car to be sold as new.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    edited September 2013
    @madforLEGO
    OK so in some ways you are now back to reality, and the reality is that Hot Wheels are not packaged any better than Lego of similar value.

    But then you lose it again with comments such as "It should be the best interest of a company to try to thwart thieves." - Which they do, to the level that they believe is cost effective.
    You don't believe it is enough, but heres the thing, what you consider enough is not what I do, or what another 1000 people think. The company do what they believe is right. Why do you, with absolutely zero facts on returns believe you are in a better position to judge this than the company who actually handle this situation?

    "To not upgrade security on the boxes tells me that LEGO does not care if people are getting their product for free." Seriously!!, clearly Hasbro, Mattel and every toy producer in the world "do not care if people are getting their product for free" as they all use similar packaging.

    Was going to go further, but came to the conclusion it is not worth it, if you seriously believe what you have written then I would suggest you write to Lego to express your concerns, heck it will either teach them a lesson which according to you they seriously need or give them a giggle.

    Phoneboothlucian
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    coachie said:

    but the retailers answer was for me to contact LEGO for replacements and was not even prepared to do this on my behalf (my preferred solution)
    So much for the customer always being right.

    The customer isn't always right, but they are always the customer.
    coachie said:

    I'll not buy from that dodgy corner shop again.

    The shop didn't want to make it easy for you, so you've made it easy for the shop.

    Everyone in business would be wise to read and understand that. :)
    lucian
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    CCC said:

    It is a balance. Of course the boxes should be sealed, but how much extra are you willing to pay for it? 25c on a $12 set? An extra $1 on the same set? $5 on a $100 set?

    That is a nice thought, but your numbers are way off...

    It might cost an extra 1 cent per box to triple the current protection, it really isn't expensive.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Oh and in all my experience (I have bought far too many sets) I have never had stickers so much as peel, let alone fall off.

    My experience probably exceeds yours (I've handled and sold tens of thousands of sets).

    I can assure you that many times the box seals do in fact just "come off" due to temp, humidity, storage, etc.

    I have had to retape way too many boxes.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    The comparison to the car theft vs returned Lego does not work for me. When you buy a car you know what you are getting compared to a sealed box of Lego.

    Unless you compare buying a car sight unseen and get it delivered to your home, and then pop the hood and find someone had pilfered the motor and then returned the car to be sold as new.

    Don't joke, that has happened... at least to rental cars...

    Hertz once had a special offer to rent Shelby Cobra Mustangs... turns out, people would rent them for the weekend, take out the high end V8 and replace with a small cheap V6 and return it. The clueless clerks at the rental car place were none the wiser.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311

    CCC said:

    It is a balance. Of course the boxes should be sealed, but how much extra are you willing to pay for it? 25c on a $12 set? An extra $1 on the same set? $5 on a $100 set?

    That is a nice thought, but your numbers are way off...

    It might cost an extra 1 cent per box to triple the current protection, it really isn't expensive.
    Way off what? No solutions are given, therefore there is no guaranteed cost. 1c might get you a bit of tape, but an alternative like an electronic device maybe light sensitive that sets off an LED on the box which stays on after tampering is going to cost more. And is also way over the top,
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Tamper-resistant tape that comes apart when you remove it, has super sticky adhesive, and covers 2" of the side of each box, would add perhaps a penny to the cost of each set.

    That sort of tape can of course be defeated, but at great cost and effort. After all, US currency is counterfeited, so anything can be defeated, but the effort required quickly becomes more trouble than it is worth.

    Currently a hair dryer is all that is required to defeat the tape on LEGO sets.
    madforLEGO
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    ^Oh noes! You gave away the secret!

    And yeah, I've had far too many seals just "come off" as well, mostly due to age breaking down the adhesive combined with the inherent sheen of Lego boxes.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    I know this is a bit off topic but if the seals come apart because of age and the time it takes to reach that is longer than the shelf life then I'm not sure if it is something that TLG should be worried about, should they?

    @LegoFanTexas From the tens of thousands of sets that you have handled and sold, what percentage of 'current' sets would you say you have had a problem with the seals on?
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,469
    Actually, the Babies R Us I go to constantly has at the least 5 or so (usually Star Wars Lego sets) on the shelf labeled on sale with the note that the set is missing the figures. The boxes are clearly re-taped by the store and the price is dropped to a little less than RRP. For the life of me I can't figure out who would buy these sets for $5 less than RRP missing the figures but someone does as they are constantly rotated to different sets that are missing the figs. I'm talking the expensive ones too, Jabba's Palace, The Malevolence, etc..
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I know this is a bit off topic but if the seals come apart because of age and the time it takes to reach that is longer than the shelf life then I'm not sure if it is something that TLG should be worried about, should they?

    I have Fire Brigades that have seals coming off, that is a current set.

    The other issue isn't just seals coming off, but coming loose, one side stays on, the other side comes free, or "slips" due to heat/moisture/lousy glue and the box flap can move half an inch or so.

    @LegoFanTexas From the tens of thousands of sets that you have handled and sold, what percentage of 'current' sets would you say you have had a problem with the seals on?

    I don't have any hard numbers, I'm not counting, but it is in the low single digit percentages. It does happen often enough that I have long since lost count. I can go to my shelves right now and pickout a dozen of them without even trying.

    I tend to store most sets for 12-18 months before selling them, some do really well, others do poorly.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,311

    I know this is a bit off topic but if the seals come apart because of age and the time it takes to reach that is longer than the shelf life then I'm not sure if it is something that TLG should be worried about, should they?

    I have Fire Brigades that have seals coming off, that is a current set.

    The other issue isn't just seals coming off, but coming loose, one side stays on, the other side comes free, or "slips" due to heat/moisture/lousy glue and the box flap can move half an inch or so.

    @LegoFanTexas From the tens of thousands of sets that you have handled and sold, what percentage of 'current' sets would you say you have had a problem with the seals on?

    I don't have any hard numbers, I'm not counting, but it is in the low single digit percentages. It does happen often enough that I have long since lost count. I can go to my shelves right now and pickout a dozen of them without even trying.

    I tend to store most sets for 12-18 months before selling them, some do really well, others do poorly.
    I don't think it matters how many current sets you have that it has happened on. How many current sets that you have bought have had broken seals at the time of purchase? That is when the seals need to be in tact, at the time a primary seller sells to a consumer.

    Lego doesn't need to worry about protecting resellers. If their box seals are good enough to stay shut (aside of people opening them) in a primary seller's store, then that is good enough. The fact that a reseller may hold a current set for four years and the seals start to go due to their storage is not an issue that lego need to worry about. Even though a current set may be out for 4-5 years, it doesn't mean the ones on the shelf have been there for 4-5 years.
    princedravencheshirecat
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    ^ Very valid point.
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