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Bricklinking 10179 UCS Millenium Falcon

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Comments

  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    I'm curious to know something about each person's motivation to acquire 10179.

    Is your interest in this particular set subject matter specific? I.E., do you want this because you love Star Wars and the MF is your favorite vehicle from the original movies? Are you a collector who is only interested in actually-released official Lego offerings?

    10179 is a great set and if you are a MF junky, you can argue you have to have 10179.

    My interest in this set is not necessarily like that. I am interested in it because to me, it is a giant, highly detailed, very time consuming and complex build of something generically cool in the form of a space ship. The fact that it is the MF in particular, or specifically comes from the Star Wars universe is borderline immaterial to me.

    If you view this set like I do, it gives rise to some interesting results.

    Like, TLG could just design their own "space ship" with a Star Wars flavor, make sure it is highly detailed, visually appealing, and pack the set full of parts, like 5,000 let's say...but then offer it at a price well below what the 10179 cost originally as there would be no licensing cost involved. If they did that, my need to acquire 10179 specifically would instantly disappear.

    I'd buy a set like that in a heartbeat, and the fact that it was not a specific ship from the Star Wars world wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

    It also occurred to me that if you view the set as I do, it becomes much more cost effective to acquire a boatload of parts any way you can, for a relatively low price, and then just MOC your own ship. One can MOC their own MF if they choose to, or MOC an entirely orginal creation for way less than current 10179 prices.

    That is all the long way of saying this: if you don't specifically want an exact copy of Lego 10179, but just want a huge, really cool spaceship "set" made out of LEGO, you have a lot of options that cost way less than current market prices for 10179.

    There are always 100 ways to build a given object out of Lego. I would love to see someone make the "98% as good as 10179" MF for a relatively cheap price. I will concede that the massive size of a built 10179 is a huge part of its appeal, but the size could be reduced by 10 or 20% and still be HUGE, while maybe eliminating the need for 1,000 pieces and a lot of cost. Who knows.

    I would note that just about every mind blowing Lego creation I have seen in the last 9 months since coming out of my dark ages has been a MOC, not a released set....and the MOCS are usually of a generic subject matter, not a licensed property. Think "generic castle creation" as opposed to "Helms Deep" for example.

    10179 is fantastic as an officially released Lego set, but you don't need to spend $2,000 to get a huge, really cool, Lego spaceship.

    You don't even need to spend anywhere close to that to end up with a 4,000 or 5,000 piece Lego rendition of the MF! The troublesome and stupidly expensive mast rigging pieces are a great example. There are 20 ways to recreate the back end of the MF in Lego, you can avoid the use of the rigging pieces entirely if you so desire.

    You won't end up with TLG's approach to that design issue with 10179, but that doesn't mean it won't look great or be an effective way of designing the ship in Lego.

    It all hinges on where you are coming from in your desire to end up with 10179.

  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^I'm attracted to the uber complex build experience of the 2nd biggest set in Lego's history. Whether or not it was the Millenium Falcon or even Star Wars related, I would have gone for it either way. How can one proclaim to be a true Lego fan if they don't reach for the ultimate building experiences? So if Lego ends up doing a super complex 5,000 piece version of something mundane, like a police car or building; I know darn well I would go to the ends of middle Earth to buy it or bricklink it if it must be. Only to 'have been there and done that'.

    You only live once... build it to the fullest.
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71
    Motivations are always difficult to pinpoint, each one has some that are evident to himself, and other not so evident.

    An example of evident motivations, I like a lot flight simulators, but for me the more complex the better, even if it means having to read manuals of thousand of pages, that is what drives me to those simulators even if I do not have the time available, for other people the simpler the better.

    Not so evident motivations...those are difficult to fathom, maybe someone wants to buy it (or to BL it) because he was unable to adquire it when it was released but wanted it real hard and created some hidden trauma (this may sound excesive, but may not be so...), and he wants to make for the lost opportunity and get even...

    And like this thousands of motivations.

    For me, I am a Star Wars junkie, but I do not really like static items that you buy ready for exposing, and as I always liked constructions I may say the two worlds collide in UCS MF, for me exposing has a bit less excitement as building.

    I hace other UCS as well, as well as other SW sets, and a couple of non-SW technic sets, that may increase because I also like those a lot.

    Rgrds
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Anyone here have a single Bley rigging piece for sale? It's annoying to have one but need two.

    Would these ever have been singles? To my knowledge, this is the only set this part has ever been in, so they should always be a pair.

    Or did I miss something?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    My interest in this set is not necessarily like that. I am interested in it because to me, it is a giant, highly detailed, very time consuming and complex build of something generically cool in the form of a space ship. The fact that it is the MF in particular, or specifically comes from the Star Wars universe is borderline immaterial to me.

    I suspect you are by far in the minority here...

    Like, TLG could just design their own "space ship" with a Star Wars flavor, make sure it is highly detailed, visually appealing, and pack the set full of parts, like 5,000 let's say...but then offer it at a price well below what the 10179 cost originally as there would be no licensing cost involved. If they did that, my need to acquire 10179 specifically would instantly disappear.

    1. A current set released today would not have 5,000 parts and cost "well below" what UCS Falcon cost. UCS Falcon was a downright bargin at 5,197 parts for $499 when it was released, given the size and weight of the set, the price per pound was a good deal. Current sets are much more expensive on both a per part and per pound price.

    2. The Star Wars licence does add cost, but I doubt it is as much as everyone thinks it is. It is just a reason for TLG to charge more, because "they can", so it gives them higher profits. I'm sure there are sets that are break-even or even loss-leaders for TLG, to draw in interest or offer a wide ranging product line. Expensive sets like this just help pay all the bills.
  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168

    My interest in this set is not necessarily like that. I am interested in it because to me, it is a giant, highly detailed, very time consuming and complex build of something generically cool in the form of a space ship. The fact that it is the MF in particular, or specifically comes from the Star Wars universe is borderline immaterial to me.

    I suspect you are by far in the minority here...

    Like, TLG could just design their own "space ship" with a Star Wars flavor, make sure it is highly detailed, visually appealing, and pack the set full of parts, like 5,000 let's say...but then offer it at a price well below what the 10179 cost originally as there would be no licensing cost involved. If they did that, my need to acquire 10179 specifically would instantly disappear.

    1. A current set released today would not have 5,000 parts and cost "well below" what UCS Falcon cost. UCS Falcon was a downright bargin at 5,197 parts for $499 when it was released, given the size and weight of the set, the price per pound was a good deal. Current sets are much more expensive on both a per part and per pound price.

    2. The Star Wars licence does add cost, but I doubt it is as much as everyone thinks it is. It is just a reason for TLG to charge more, because "they can", so it gives them higher profits. I'm sure there are sets that are break-even or even loss-leaders for TLG, to draw in interest or offer a wide ranging product line. Expensive sets like this just help pay all the bills.
    Don't underestimate licensing costs for something like this. They are a lot bigger than you think.

    What size set Lego could do now at a given price point (assuming no license involved) and a specific part count isn't the point.

    The point is if you missed the boat on this set and are prepared to start altering the purity of the original set, making your own can be an interesting alternative.

    This thread has already discussed eliminating the box, instruction manual, sticker, rigging pieces, printed radar dish, yellow Technic internals, etc...

    It raises the interesting question of "how far are you willing to go?" in terms of massively reducing the price.

    If a huge model of the MF specifically is what you're after, a MOC of the MF is a great way to go. If the MF specifically is not the target, but rather, you are just after a huge, cool, and complex Lego set, you're still better off making an unrelated MOC or simply buying a different set that doesn't cost $2,000.

    Then I guess there is the 3rd camp: you have concluded that you must have 10179, for whatever reason. In that cast, you're just screwed! You either pony up the cash or skip it.

    I love Star Wars and the UCS sets, but I have no specific attachment to any of them thankfully. I am drawn to Star Wars UCS stuff within the Lego universe simply b/c that is one of the very few places you can find big, huge, complex sets within that Lego universe, and those are almost the only types of Lego sets which interest me as an adult. There are always a few exceptions that peak curiosity/interest however.

    Our options are actually incredibly limited. We have the modulars, the biggest/best Technic sets (Unimog for example), the UCS stuff, and the Creator line of famous landmarks like Taj Mahal, Tower Bridge, etc.

    That's about it! Where is the $300+, 3,000+ piece LOTR set? The "kingdoms" equivalent, etc.?

    Another question: how many here would continue in their efforts to buy or bricklink 10179 for $1,000 to $2,000 if Lego released something roughly equivalent next month, but for "normal" Lego money without all the aftermarket mark-up?

    For example, the Cuusoo Sand Crawler is now going to force Lego's hand. The Cuusoo community has effectively said "we want a UCS sand crawler."

    What if Lego gives us one? Let's say it's 3,000 + pieces and costs whatever Lego decides to charge. We can all guess what the price might be. That price will still be massively below 10179. Would you still entertain the costs of 10179?

    It seems to me it would make much more sense to skip it at that point and consider it the fish that got away..focusing on newer and huge UCS offerings at massively cheaper prices.

    I guess it all hinges on whether you want 10179 or a MF specifically.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    There are Lego Collectors and there are Star Wars Collectors. The UCS MF satisfies both. The Millienium Falcon is the most iconic ship in the Star Wars galaxy. A UCS Jawa Sandcrawler or AT-AT will not make people "give up" on either buying a UCS MF or Brickinking one. Most of us are purists and want the exact model and all it's pieces. Forgoing the box and/or instructions is an option people do to lower costs, but most people will not modify the Falcon by using different color parts in my opinion.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    All fair points...

    Don't underestimate licensing costs for something like this. They are a lot bigger than you think.

    What do you think they are?

    If I had to personally guess, LucasFilm LTD is getting 5% of RRP of every set that TLG sells. That can be a lot of total money, but it also means it increases the cost of each set by only 5%.

    5% of $499 is $25. Not exactly "huge" in my personal opinion.

    The point is if you missed the boat on this set and are prepared to start altering the purity of the original set, making your own can be an interesting alternative.

    Yes, it can be for those people inclined or able to MOC.

    Me? I have zero design skills what-so-ever... I couldn't MOC my way out of a paper box.

    I enjoy the zen of putting little plastic bricks together while listening to music, following high quality instructions.

    Not everyone feels that way of course, but many do.

    This thread has already discussed eliminating the box, instruction manual, sticker, rigging pieces, printed radar dish, yellow Technic internals, etc...

    It raises the interesting question of "how far are you willing to go?" in terms of massively reducing the price.

    That is a great question... Me? I'd be willing to swap out the dish and the bley/bley levers, but the bley rigging has to be there, it looks silly in black IMHO. The manual? For $400, I'd use an online PDF copy, but it is indeed a nice manual. The sticker can be replaced by a copy pretty cheaply.

    Other people will feel differently, but I think with the above changes, the average person walking in the door would have no idea and would just think it was cool as heck.

    If a huge model of the MF specifically is what you're after, a MOC of the MF is a great way to go. If the MF specifically is not the target, but rather, you are just after a huge, cool, and complex Lego set, you're still better off making an unrelated MOC or simply buying a different set that doesn't cost $2,000.

    See above comment about MOC skills, many people have none. :)

    Then I guess there is the 3rd camp: you have concluded that you must have 10179, for whatever reason. In that cast, you're just screwed! You either pony up the cash or skip it.

    That would be me... and given the price of the sets going no where but up, I think I have a lot of company. This was not a limited edition, 10,000 unit run that is rare. Hundreds of thousands of copies (perhaps a million) were produced, it is only expensive because demand outstrips remaining supply.

    Our options are actually incredibly limited. We have the modulars, the biggest/best Technic sets (Unimog for example), the UCS stuff, and the Creator line of famous landmarks like Taj Mahal, Tower Bridge, etc.

    That's about it! Where is the $300+, 3,000+ piece LOTR set? The "kingdoms" equivalent, etc.?

    I agree with you... I already own almost all of them and have built more than half of them.

    I'm running out of 2,000+ part sets to build, at some point I'm going to have to find something else to do, as I being to get caught up with the Lego back catalog.

    Another question: how many here would continue in their efforts to buy or bricklink 10179 for $1,000 to $2,000 if Lego released something roughly equivalent next month, but for "normal" Lego money without all the aftermarket mark-up?

    For example, the Cuusoo Sand Crawler is now going to force Lego's hand. The Cuusoo community has effectively said "we want a UCS sand crawler."

    What if Lego gives us one? Let's say it's 3,000 + pieces and costs whatever Lego decides to charge. We can all guess what the price might be. That price will still be massively below 10179. Would you still entertain the costs of 10179?

    It seems to me it would make much more sense to skip it at that point and consider it the fish that got away..focusing on newer and huge UCS offerings at massively cheaper prices.

    I guess it all hinges on whether you want 10179 or a MF specifically.

    That has little to do with it... Both 10188 and 10221 are on the market now, both have over 3,000 parts, both are priced at $400. Yet demand for 10179 continues...

    A UCS Sandcrawler is not going to change that. If they came out with one, I'd of course buy it, but that has no effect on UCS Falcon, very different ships.

    Now, a better question is, if they redid the Falcon at some point, would I care about the older one? No, probably not. I generally only care about the newest, nicest models, the older ones were replaced for a reason. :)

    See original Republic Gunship vs newer one, ditto with X-Wing, AT-TE, AT-AT, B-Wing, and a dozen other models...
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    I wouldn't want just any generic large ship. There's a reason people want the MF. It's the Millennium Falcon!!! It's Star Wars!!!
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71
    edited September 2012

    [...]It raises the interesting question of "how far are you willing to go?" in terms of massively reducing the price.

    If a huge model of the MF specifically is what you're after, a MOC of the MF is a great way to go.

    [...]Another question: how many here would continue in their efforts to buy or bricklink 10179 for $1,000 to $2,000 if Lego released something roughly equivalent next month, but for "normal" Lego money without all the aftermarket mark-up?

    For example, the Cuusoo Sand Crawler is now going to force Lego's hand. The Cuusoo community has effectively said "we want a UCS sand crawler."

    What if Lego gives us one? Let's say it's 3,000 + pieces and costs whatever Lego decides to charge. We can all guess what the price might be. That price will still be massively below 10179. Would you still entertain the costs of 10179?

    It seems to me it would make much more sense to skip it at that point and consider it the fish that got away..focusing on newer and huge UCS offerings at massively cheaper prices.

    I guess it all hinges on whether you want 10179 or a MF specifically.

    Well, as I said motivations are complex...

    About how far, that is a question of money, simple and pure money, if I have had enough to spend in a single shot I may have bought one for building, as I do not have that money I try to get as far as I can, or allow myself, each one has to, or even better, must know their economical and motivational limits.

    About MOCing, well, I thought about it, and I know that all the parts that I am getting can be used for that, but you should also have in mind that not everybody can go for a MOC that kind, not everybody has the skills needed, although can be developed with enough time, also not everybody is into MOCing, there are a lot of people that just enjoy the building and creating of their own, but not to level of a MOC of this level.

    If Lego released an UCS of the complexity of the MF and I like it I would most probably go for it, but I would keep BLing the MF, as I said before, I also enjoy "the hunt for parts", in fact I am also BLing 10129, yeah, I'm weird, I know... :-D

    And a UCS Sand Crawler would be great...

    Rgrds
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ 10129 is underrated, my wife built that a month ago and it is far more impressive in person than the pictures give credit.

    It isn't all that accurate in physical shape, but it is close enough and only a really hard core Star Wars nut would care, everyone else goes, "oh, that is cool".
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Pitfall69 said:

    I wouldn't want just any generic large ship. There's a reason people want the MF. It's the Millennium Falcon!!! It's Star Wars!!!

    ^ THIS

    My lovely 67 year old silver hair Mother wouldn't know a Star Destroyer from Slave 1.

    But she knows what the Millennium Falcon is, everyone knows what the MF is. It is perhaps the most iconic ship in all of Star Wars, rivaled only by the Death Star.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    Exactly brother :)
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71

    ^ 10129 is underrated, my wife built that a month ago and it is far more impressive in person than the pictures give credit.

    It isn't all that accurate in physical shape, but it is close enough and only a really hard core Star Wars nut would care, everyone else goes, "oh, that is cool".

    To be honest I started BLing 10129 before MF, then I went for both at the same time to reduce shipping costs, as there are not many sellers in Spain.

    10129 also has a few rare parts, mainly the windscreen and the orange slopes, but I am lucky, I already have 1 windscreen and half the orange slopes (all 3 used below 1€ when some were sold used at 1.5€, new are about 7€) , only 124 parts of 22 lots to finish, and I already have an "alternative" stickers sheet. It is good the parts for this set are not so expensive as 10179.

    Rgrds
  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    Well you guys at least have sort of answered my question. It IS all about the MF in particular for you. In that sense, various other options (MOC) or a different new UCS creation is not going to scratch your itch. You need the MF!

    I was watching Star Wars in the theatre before some posters on here, I'm quite sure, were born! So I know what's what from Star Wars. Though I have to say, the MF never did a ton for me. The model guys quite literally modelled it on a "cheeseburger" and there is something wrong with that. But that is a topic for another thread! As a Lego creation, however, 10179 is fantastic. There's no mistaking that.

    I am not picky about subject matter with the Lego kits. Either they are big, special, and really well designed, or they are not. If they are, I'm interested. Doesn't matter if that's a SSD from Star Wars or a fire station. By the same token, the subject matter can be "perfect" but if the set is poorly done, who cares? Pretty much all of the LOTR sets fall into this latter category unfortunately.

    @legofantexas: I think your license estimate is a good floor. There is also quite likely a flat dollar amount paid by Lego in addition to the per unit costs, and no doubt, Lego is passing those licensing costs straight to the consumer. There is no question a non-licensed comparable set would be considerably cheaper.






  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71
    edited September 2012

    [...]
    I was watching Star Wars in the theatre before some posters on here, I'm quite sure, were born! So I know what's what from Star Wars. [...]

    You bet, I was born in 1973 and my father took me to EPIV and V when they were released in Spain in 1977 (I think I saw it in mid 1978 in a local town cinema) and 1980, and I remember being in a cloud (Tibanna cloud :-D ), the I went by myself to VI, and also remember being in the University and going to the 20th aniversary screening in the cinemas the release day (1997), in fact I remember EPV was the day before a difficult exam, but I saw the movie and passed the exam, Double Jackpot :-P

    Rgrds
  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    Mad_Dog said:

    [...]
    I was watching Star Wars in the theatre before some posters on here, I'm quite sure, were born! So I know what's what from Star Wars. [...]

    You bet, I was born in 1973 and my father took me to EPIV and V when they were released in Spain in 1977 (I think I saw it in mid 1978 in a local town cinema) and 1980, and I remember being in a cloud (Tibanna cloud :-D ), the I went by myself to VI, and also remember being in the University and going to the 20th aniversary screening in the cinemas the release day (1997), in fact I remember EPV was the day before a difficult exam, but I saw the movie and passed the exam, Double Jackpot :-P

    Rgrds
    Fantastic Mad Dog! I will NEVER forget the feeling of utter joy that followed my first viewing of Star Wars at the theatre in 1977! I was 6. I'm lucky I have a cool mom who took me. I instantly became obsessed. There was such a magic surrounding the films at that time...they were totally new and unlike other films. It was not long before I was building (horribly) a model of Luke's X-wing. That is my "iconic" ship from the movie, not the MF. I fell in love with that thing. Though you had to love the way the MF was all engine and filled with brutal horsepower.

    Sorry to meander totally off topic in terms of how to go about bricklinking 10179.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Mad_Dog said:


    To be honest I started BLing 10129 before MF, then I went for both at the same time to reduce shipping costs, as there are not many sellers in Spain.

    10129 also has a few rare parts, mainly the windscreen and the orange slopes, but I am lucky, I already have 1 windscreen and half the orange slopes (all 3 used below 1€ when some were sold used at 1.5€, new are about 7€) , only 124 parts of 22 lots to finish, and I already have an "alternative" stickers sheet. It is good the parts for this set are not so expensive as 10179.

    Rgrds

    I am curious as to how much total you have invested into 10129? Have you ever added it up?

    I bought a very good used copy of the set, with manual and sticker, for $400 delivered. I figured at that price, it wouldn't be worth bricklinking it. However it seems that day has passed, looking online now it seems the new low price is $600.

    I love Lego, you can buy a used retired Lego set for triple RRP, enjoy it for a year, then resell it again for 50% MORE than you paid for it.

    I do not know of any other toy that does that. Way too much fun! :)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Well you guys at least have sort of answered my question. It IS all about the MF in particular for you. In that sense, various other options (MOC) or a different new UCS creation is not going to scratch your itch. You need the MF!

    Yep, that is it right there.

    But I respect and understand that not everyone feels that way. If you want to go another way with Lego, more power to you! That is what is so great about Lego, we can all do it our own way, no need to all be the same!!!

    @legofantexas: I think your license estimate is a good floor. There is also quite likely a flat dollar amount paid by Lego in addition to the per unit costs, and no doubt, Lego is passing those licensing costs straight to the consumer. There is no question a non-licensed comparable set would be considerably cheaper.

    Can you tell me what you consider to be "considerably cheaper"?

    I ask in all seriousness, because I think defining that term will help a lot with our understanding of each other's view points.

    In my mind, 25% or more is "considerable cheaper", and I just don't think the licence and royalty fees are that high. Maybe 10% on the high end, but more than that would be crazy.

    Normal royalty fees are in the 7% range (this is true across many products, not just toys), so between 5-10% seems "right" to me. But anything is possible I suppose. :)
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71

    I am curious as to how much total you have invested into 10129? Have you ever added it up?:)

    I have a home an excel sheet with a complete accounting, but I cannot give you a number now as I am in Costa Rica in a bussiness trip, I guess I will be back to Spain on 24th September.

    I did a rough number against buying, and was close to a used set, the problem was most of the sets at that time were very expensive and you have to add p&p to Spain of a big box with insurance, that raised cost by about 200$.

    And I am also sorry everybody about the off-topic, but it is so easy to wander off-course in this kind of topics, were everybody has a smart opinion and nice talk.

    Rgrds
  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    @Legofantexas: I think 10% is a starting point with it likely being higher than that. Lucas is known for being pretty greedy with licensing fees! Of course, without seeing the K, there is no way to know for sure or have an intelligent debate on the relevant terms. But even 10% to me is very substantial, whereas you thought 25% was more in the "substantial" category.

    We don't know how much exactly the license is adding to a Lego Star Wars set, but we know it does add to the cost. So it makes sense to assume a non-licensed "star wars-esque" generic set would be cheaper. It all helps!

    Of course, as you and others pointed out, it's not just about a "cool space ship" necessarily. If you specifically want the MF from Star Wars, you're going to pay for that. I see Lego as a creative medium for artistic expression, even if just building a Lego set according to instructions. That process need not get bogged down in things like licensing fees for me. The coolest stuff I see over at Cuusoo is the stuff you've never seen before that came out of someone's imagination, not the copy-cat attempts at reducing a known IP property into Lego form.

    But again, that is for each Lego fan to figure out for themselves. I'm sure there are plenty of Star Wars collectors who otherwise don't really care about Lego per se, but own all the Lego Star Wars sets simply b/c it's "that which is Star Wars" and it was not yet included in their collection. So for that Lego buyer, Lego is entirely about Star Wars, quite specifically. Substitutes will not suffice!

    I didn't mean for this to morph into a "knock it off, TLG, with all the licensed themes" comment, but frankly, I wish they would. I see where the licensed properties help drive their sales, particularly with kids and parents of kids, but I'd love to see Lego focus on "Pirates" instead of POTC, "Space" instead of Star Wars, and "Castle" instead of LOTR. The pre-fab IP is not needed in the wondeful world of Lego! In fact, I see it as a kind of poison tainting the pristine waters which run high in the mountains in Legoland.

    But that's just 1 Lego fan's opinion.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ I agree with you... too many licensed themes will cause Lego problems in the years to come I believe...

    Ninjago is a great example of how to do an original theme. My kids LOVE Ninjago, my 4 year old girl is totally into it, she wants to be the Green Ninja! :) (nope, not even Nya, the girl in the show, only the GREEN ONE she says!)

    Monster Fighters is another good example. I personally don't care for it, but I "get it" when it comes to the fans for that series.

    Other lines, like PQ, AC, and Atlantis really don't get the support, story, and other details to support them. How amazing would a PQ cartoon be? That could really make something cool. Or is that just me? ;)
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    For me as an OT SW nut, the MF was not something I was particularly fussed about as a kid, it was the only major ship I didn't own in the Parker/Kenner line-up. As a kid I was more into the Empire than the Rebellion.

    The one thing that makes me really want the MF in the Lego form is the fact that it is a non linear model, the largest by far of all the SW Lego sets, and it'll be an enjoyable build. Some sets just blow you away when you see them in the flesh, and for me this one and the shuttle are 2 of the best. The 7965 is pretty crap IMO, with all the panel gaps etc, but I can't see TLG doing much better with only 1200 parts to play with, it's not something i'd be proud to display.

    @LFT: I have seen the rigging pieces sold individually. Some insist on selling as a pair on bricklink, some appear to have no qualms about selling a single one. I was hoping to get a single for somewhere in the region of £50/$80, but they're going for a bit more than that. I suppose my dish savings will be wiped out by higher rigging costs.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    I know we are kind of getting off topic a bit, but it is understandable. Star Wars is a passionate topic and people take their obsession seriously. I'm 41 and I have been a Star Wars nut from the beginning. I love the Millennium Falcon more than any ship. It was indirectly involved in the destruction of the Death Star and directly involved in destroying Death Star II. It also had a ton of screen time. More than any ship. The Kenner MF opened up into a playset. What else could you do with the X-Wing? Obviously not everyone agrees with me. BTW, who doesn't enjoy a good cheeseburger?
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71
    Hi, there has been a big earthquake here in Costa Rica, about 7 Richter, I am still a bit shaky but OK.

    Rgrds
  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168

    For me as an OT SW nut, the MF was not something I was particularly fussed about as a kid, it was the only major ship I didn't own in the Parker/Kenner line-up. As a kid I was more into the Empire than the Rebellion.

    The one thing that makes me really want the MF in the Lego form is the fact that it is a non linear model, the largest by far of all the SW Lego sets, and it'll be an enjoyable build. Some sets just blow you away when you see them in the flesh, and for me this one and the shuttle are 2 of the best. The 7965 is pretty crap IMO, with all the panel gaps etc, but I can't see TLG doing much better with only 1200 parts to play with, it's not something i'd be proud to display.

    @LFT: I have seen the rigging pieces sold individually. Some insist on selling as a pair on bricklink, some appear to have no qualms about selling a single one. I was hoping to get a single for somewhere in the region of £50/$80, but they're going for a bit more than that. I suppose my dish savings will be wiped out by higher rigging costs.

    I don't tend to buy smallish sets, but I made an exception for 7965 which you mentioned. I agree with you. The set ultimately did not live up to expectations and after a while, I stripped it down to pieces as it was not worthy of display space. In particular, the proportions of the MF are unacceptably wrong for me. The main circular body portion is way too high at the center, and the front "pincers" are too small. I thought about modifying the whole thing to make it better, then decided to just strip it down for MOC parts.

  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    Pitfall69 said:

    I know we are kind of getting off topic a bit, but it is understandable. Star Wars is a passionate topic and people take their obsession seriously. I'm 41 and I have been a Star Wars nut from the beginning. I love the Millennium Falcon more than any ship. It was indirectly involved in the destruction of the Death Star and directly involved in destroying Death Star II. It also had a ton of screen time. More than any ship. The Kenner MF opened up into a playset. What else could you do with the X-Wing? Obviously not everyone agrees with me. BTW, who doesn't enjoy a good cheeseburger?

    We are the same age Pitfall. My interest in the X-wing relates specifically to its aesthetics. When I was 6, 7, 8, I thought it was just the coolest thing of all time. To be honest, I have found that its shape has not held up well with the passage of time. It now strikes me as a bit dated, like many aspects of the Star Wars universe. Although other aspects are not dated at all.

    Two things I love about the MF: it is somewhat assymetrical with the cockpit off to the 1 side, and it had that beaten up "mech" quality to it, before "mech" was a commonly used term of art. I love that! That was one of the brilliant aspects of Star Wars in my opinion. They made this foreign universe accessible and familiar by making the universe into something we could identify with. Things got old, rusty, and beaten up in the Star Wars universe, just like our world. That was cool.

    Tolkien did the same thing with Middle Earth. He made an exotic fantasyland seem familiar by injecting it with realistic touches, like bacon and eggs for breakfast. And tea time.

    Believe it or not, I saw a built 10179 in a display case at a Lego store when the set was still in production. I was in there buying presents for my nephews. I was very much buried in my Dark Ages at the time, and never thought for a second to buy a Lego set for myself. I will always remember how huge and fantastically detailed 10179 is! I was blown away at the time. My immediate thoughts were something like: "Oh my, that's fabulous. I had no idea Lego was now making immense sets like this clearly aimed at adults. And what's that? $500! My gosh that's an insane price for a Lego set."

    I then left the store and didn't really think about it again. Now of course, like a lot of people, I wish I could hop in a time machine, go back to that exact moment, and buy one. My credit card would be out of my wallet and sliding across the counter so fast it would start to melt.

  • ringleheimringleheim Member Posts: 168
    Mad_Dog said:

    Hi, there has been a big earthquake here in Costa Rica, about 7 Richter, I am still a bit shaky but OK.

    Rgrds

    Stay safe Mad Dog!
  • Penkid11Penkid11 Member Posts: 783
    I have to ask: Which pieces in #10179 would be smart to Bricklink now as opposed to later when there is barely any to meet demand? (think like bley mast riggings as opposed to black technic pins)

  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^Radar dish, light bley levers, dark bley cones without groove, sticker, manual. Most of the rest are current parts.
  • Mad_DogMad_Dog SpainMember Posts: 71
    edited September 2012

    ^Radar dish, light bley levers, dark bley cones without groove, sticker, manual. Most of the rest are current parts.

    Fully agree, for me the cones are still pending, as well as boat rigging, but that is another story...

    Rgrds
  • Penkid11Penkid11 Member Posts: 783
    edited September 2012

    ^Radar dish, light bley levers, dark bley cones without groove, sticker, manual. Most of the rest are current parts.

    Wasn't there some sort of rare Technic beam that is also a bit pricey too? And the yellow L-shaped technic beams can still be ordered from TLG as well? I had thought I heard they were Spendy as well if not purchased from them. Also would the design be "criminally altered:P" if I were to get some of the newer dark bley cones?
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    Penkid: some substituted items for me are a no brainer: Long blue technic pins = 1.5p each vs long black technic pins = 10p each and you need 111 of them. I have ordered the grooved cones at 2p each, instead of the originals at 67p each (although light bley ungrooved cones are still in production as some current sets have them - I will check with Lego for availability of dark bley ones when I order my remaining parts). If you need any technic beams and plates larger than 4 x 6, almost all of them are cheaper through Lego directly. The bley levers are something I can also live without.

    If you avoid any substitutions at all and get the original components which are now pricey I would say buy a second hand set (original, not bricklinked), it will probably be cheaper than bricklinking. Cones, Dish, rigging, Black pins and Bley levers will set you back around £350 on their own, and I would estimate you'd spend another £600 for everything else (if you're starting from scratch). Could you get a complete 2nd hand example for £950/$1500? Possibly there or thereabouts and any more than that and you're paying for the box and manual too.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ The 16 stud dark bley beam isn't common, on Bricklink those are almost $2 each from sellers with enough in stock to make ordering worthwhile. And you need a lot of them, but my understanding is that only about 10 of them are really visible, so you could swap out other colors for some of them.

    This is only going to get harder, so you're smart to buy the parts now if you think you'll do it, however keep in mind that as time goes by, currently common parts will become uncommon.

    If you wait two years, it will be completely different.

    And of course a new or used set will cost more then as well. :)
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    There is always the hope that some uncommon parts that are currently out of production may be resurrected for a newer model (like Lukes old style AT/AT rope now being used for Jabba's pipe), but there is also the risk that currently common parts may go out of production and become pricey.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ Given the number of parts used in the Falcon, I'd think the latter is more likely than the former.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889

    ^ The 16 stud dark bley beam isn't common, on Bricklink those are almost $2 each from sellers with enough in stock to make ordering worthwhile. And you need a lot of them, but my understanding is that only about 10 of them are really visible, so you could swap out other colors for some of them.

    This is only going to get harder, so you're smart to buy the parts now if you think you'll do it, however keep in mind that as time goes by, currently common parts will become uncommon.

    If you wait two years, it will be completely different.

    And of course a new or used set will cost more then as well. :)

    I'm sure you'd get your money back later on ebay if you decided not to go ahead. Some of the prices on ebay for listings like "approx 550 parts for Lego 10179" show final closed auction price in excess of 12p per part, when a lot of the numbers have been made up with pins, tiny wedges etc. If you have any parts at all you can associate with the 10179 gets people bidding on them. Presumably the "winner" who has paid over the odds (IMO) has just started thinking about gathering the parts for the job and has no idea of the worth of some of the items in the lot. For most auctions of this type I have seen very few high value pieces to bump up the average part price value to justify the final price.

  • beegeedeebeegeedee Galway, IrelandMember Posts: 380
    re the light bley levers. I noticed you can buy the sticks with a different coloured base for about 3-4c each and then you just need the light bley bases which I imagine are common with the black stick. quick swap and you're sorted. That's a massive saving on the 2USD I saw for 1 lever and if you need 60 I think it was you could cut about 100 USD off the purchase price.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    beegeedee: Do you have an item number for these other levers with a light bley stick to search on bricklink for?
  • beegeedeebeegeedee Galway, IrelandMember Posts: 380
    edited September 2012
    @monkeyhanger maybe I'll just buy them all up and then sell them at 100x the price :D

    joke.

    Same part number, look it up in the catalog and then look at alt colours. As it happens, there's a lot less now than yesterday when I looked. there's 9 with a black base anyway. here: 298c05

    It's that simple. 298c02 is the one with a black lever, and there's about 1100 with a lt bley base starting at a few cents each.

    There's a few levers too: http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=4593
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    If anyone wants light grey stick equipped levers they're 298c03 as far as I can see, and they're from about 8p each. Ordering now, anyone want a set ordering?
  • MorkManMorkMan Phoenix, Arizona, USAMember Posts: 861
    I've put a lot of time and thought into Bricklinking vs. buying. My only problem with buying a #10179 is trust. I can trust myself in knowing that I have purchsed all the correct (not substituted) parts. But how can I be assured that a purchased MF is going to be a real (original) MF and not a BrickLinked MF? Is that even a valid argument? Five years from now the population of original MFs will have declined more and more (people parting them out for cash, breakage, thrown out by spouses, etc.)
    Will there be less value on an MF that isn't sealed in the box or that can't be verified as original (and not BrickLinked)? Is that even a concern to any?
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    edited September 2012
    Morkman: If you're buying a set with box or manual (or both) it's likely that it's an original retail set and not a bricklinked mock up with substitutions as many people wouldn't part with £400 just to acquire a manual and a box for their bricklinked set. At the end of the day I suppose you've got to decide what your motivation is for getting hold of one. Is it purely for your own building and displaying pleasure and getting one that looks 99% right for 60% of the price of a complete 100% no sub parts? Or are you thinking that it's an investment primarily?

    If you bricklink a 100% set vs a set with a few internal substitutions and go to sell it down the line, do you think you'll get so much more for it? People see the finished article on ebay etc when they see pics and if both sets look the same they won't appreciate why one is £1200 and one is £600 unless they truly appreciate the bricklinked cost of spare parts and are prepared to pay twice the price for that extra bit of authenticity that few would appreciate when looking at it on display.

    How many people right now would rather get one bricklinked for £600 with a few subs like ye olde light grey levers, blue technic pins holding the structure together instead of black ones and the right cones (without ridge) for twice the price?

    The ceiling on unboxed examples has to be related to how much one can be bricklinked for, but for boxed sealed examples that will be 100% all genuine unsubstituted parts, that ceiling has yet to be met and every time someone cracks one open, the price can only go up unless Lego did the unthinkable and re-released all the old UCS sets or redid them even better as we see with system all the time.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ I think the average person doesn't really care, but it does affect the future price.

    I think the only sure thing is that new in box sealed copies will continue to go up in price.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    @LFT: Either way I think we can all agree that if you bricklink a set now, it will only get harder to do in the future (and more expensive). Unless Lego do re-release the set or provide an even better one in the future, you won't lose money on your bricklinked one (even selling it as spares should get you all your money back, except if you did pay through the nose for things like bley levers etc, if a new one did come out).
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    edited September 2012
    ^I don't know if you can really tell if a set is original or brick linked. With that said, if you flip over a Lego piece (let's say it is a 1x8 plate) I have noticed that some pieces are different (ejector pin marks) even though from the outside they look exactly the same. There are also numbers inside the parts and they too are different. Can someone explain this to me?
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,889
    Pitfall: Don't know about subtle things like that, but if you'd got a set off ebay that didn't say it was bricklinked and it hd a few structural or subtle substitutions like blue long technic pins instead of black ones, grooved cones etc, would you be a bit pee'd off if you'd paid a price that you'd expect to pay for all original stuff? If someone has done a 100% true bricklink Falcon, I don't think theres anything to complain about though.
  • Rainstorm26Rainstorm26 Chicago Burbs USA (and sometimes Ireland)Member Posts: 1,004

    ^
    I think the only sure thing is that new in box sealed copies will continue to go up in price.

    The prices on BL have really hit a wall at the $2000 level. Will it really continue to rise? Will interest in SW decline as the years go by? Hard to predict the future it is.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ I suspect it is going to be hard to have any Lego set sell for more than $2K. Most people just go "what the heck?" to that...

    Still, there will be a small market there. Give it until Christmas, or just after... The prices hit a wall last summer as well, then punched right through. But I'm sure it gets harder as it goes up.

    Will we ever see $4K? Sure, sooner or later... but it might be a few years...
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401

    Pitfall: Don't know about subtle things like that, but if you'd got a set off ebay that didn't say it was bricklinked and it hd a few structural or subtle substitutions like blue long technic pins instead of black ones, grooved cones etc, would you be a bit pee'd off if you'd paid a price that you'd expect to pay for all original stuff? If someone has done a 100% true bricklink Falcon, I don't think theres anything to complain about though.

    I was talking about a complete Bricklinked set with all the right parts compared to an actual set. Yes, I would be mad if there were substitutions that weren't mentioned.
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