Sealed tabs on Lego sets

jonboy2000

I have sold a high end set to someone on ebay and they are convinced that I have opened the set.  It is a little odd I have to admit but I don't check every tab on every Lego set that I buy for myself or to sell.
The issue is that on 1 of the tabs a second identical sticker has been placed on top of the first sticker (fractionally to the side).  
Also the set has 2 different batch numbers on the tabs either side of the box which I have never noticed before on a set.  I side has 2 stickers with the number 45S9 and the other side 2 stickers with the number 46S9.  I had a live chat with someone from Lego about the number differences and they said it was most likely that the set was part packed in 1 area and then finished off in another area but in the same factory.
The other issue the person has is that when they opened the set 2 of the 3 instructions booklets were inside each other and the other instruction book had the sticker sheet in them.
Whilst they have not openly said it I am basically being accused of opening the set, putting 1 instruction book inside the other, putting the stickers inside the other instruction book and then sealing the set back up. I have somehow then obtained or reproduced and identical Lego factory seal and placed it over 1 of the tabs.
CRAZY SCENARIO I KNOW!
I have built sets of this era where instruction books have been inside each other and not always all of them.  The only explanation I can think for the double sticker is that 2 have been placed instead of 1 on the assembly line by mistake (by a machine presumably).
What I would like to know is has anyone every had a double sealed tab (2 stickers on top of each other) or had a set where it has 2 different batch numbers?
No matter what I say this person is adament I have defrauded them which having sold Lego sets for 10 years relatively hassle free is now driving me nuts!

datsunrobbie

Unless there is something missing from the set, what is the buyer's problem with the set? If they were after a MISB set for investment and had doubts, they should never have opened it. If they planned to build it and it is all there, what's the problem?

jonboy2000

My thoughts exactly.  But if he decided to send it back I doubt I would get much sympathy from Ebay.....just a bill for the return postage.

Yodalicious

I've experienced the double tabs before. Didn't notice it until I opened the set. Bought it from Target and box was in perfect condition, so didn't check the tabs at the store. When I cut them at home, I noticed. All that was supposed to be in the box was there, so I just assumed it was some assembly line error. 

SumoLego

Retail Merchandisers used to have rolls of those stickers. None with batch numbers, of course, as that is a newer production phenomenon.

I'm sure when you get the set back, it'll be filled with MegaBloks.  That should be exciting!

HugeYellowBrick

I've had two double tabs, on a new set from LEGOShop online! Sorry, that doesn't help you much.

jonboy2000

@HugeYellowBrick and @Yodalicious that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Puts my mind at ease a bit. If only this guy would accept that it would be perfectly​ plausible for this to happen.
@SumoLego if it comes back I'm kind of expecting it to be sabotaged in some way out of spite.  Maybe replaced with a Lepin set! : )

SprinkleOtter

All of the many Dimensions sets I have with Supergirl have double tabs. I don't know if that is relevant or not.

Legogram

I have a #21303 WALL*E that has 2 double tabs with different numbers top and bottom, and a center tab with a completely different number.  I bought it at a LEGO Store.

akunthita

Sounds like the buyer is either hyper nervous or trying to cheat you. In either case, remain courteous and friendly in all communication.

If they are just nervous, I would ask them gently what is exactly their problem. If all the pieces, minifigs and instructions are there what are they worried about? How did you exactly cheat them in their opinion? What is exactly that they are not happy with? Emphasize that you have been selling LEGO for many years with many happy customers, and that you love LEGO too. Sometimes people are just half accusatory because they are nervous, or they have a buyer's remorse and try to wiggle themselves out of the transaction. If you are friendly and professional they will move on.

If you suspect it is a cheater, try to avoid talking about returning the set. If they are planning to cheat you and fill the box with garbage, you will have no recourse, and you will be out both the set and the money. Just remain very friendly, ask them what is their actual problem and hopefully they will change their mind about cheating you.

masterX244

Legogram said:

I have a #21303 WALL*E that has 2 double tabs with different numbers top and bottom, and a center tab with a completely different number.  I bought it at a LEGO Store.

you probably got one with a hotfix packaged in since the initial release had a build error

Legogram

@masterX244  I called Lego to find out if that was the case, but the codes on the tabs didn't match anything they had.  They sent the fix kit to me just to be safe.

jonboy2000

@akunthita  I have done as you said and been courteous with all communication.  I have got to the point where I have asked them to detail the series of events that they believe I have done (which is basically what I describe in the original post) so that I can speak to ebay about exactly what they are accusing me of.  I have tried to put them at ease and provide them with information (like other peoples experience of the double seals above) but there is no appeasing them.  They are adamant I have resealed the set (with no logical proof).
I would like to say more about the transaction but I don't want to accuse someone of something I can't prove especially on a public forum.  If you are curious you're welcome to PM me.

akunthita

jonboy2000 said:

@akunthita  I have done as you said and been courteous with all communication.  I have got to the point where I have asked them to detail the series of events that they believe I have done (which is basically what I describe in the original post) so that I can speak to ebay about exactly what they are accusing me of.  I have tried to put them at ease and provide them with information (like other peoples experience of the double seals above) but there is no appeasing them.  They are adamant I have resealed the set (with no logical proof).
I would like to say more about the transaction but I don't want to accuse someone of something I can't prove especially on a public forum.  If you are curious you're welcome to PM me.

I'm not clear on what are they trying to achieve with these accusations. They have opened the set, and it seems they have full intention of building it. Why are they so hung up on how many sticker seals were on the box if everything is there? Is anything missing? Or damaged? Are they asking for a discount? Or are they wanting to send the set back? Or they are just grumpy for no reason?

jonboy2000

They said they bought it as an investment so as datsunrobbie said they shouldn't have opened it if they were suspicious about the tabs.  There has been no mention of a return but that I should compensate them that the set has been resealed(no mention of a figure).
The other original accusations were that the base board was placed upside down(?) and that the board was on 1 side of the box and the instructions on the other side with the bags in between.  These accusations seem to have died over the various e-mails.

datsunrobbie

Be sure to save every bit of correspondence with the buyer. If they have stated in writing that it was purchased as an investment (not to be opened) and they opened it it might help if things escalate. Now that they opened it, if they want to return it they should have to pay you for loss of value of an opened vs unopened set (won't happen, but it should).

akunthita

jonboy2000 said:

They said they bought it as an investment so as datsunrobbie said they shouldn't have opened it if they were suspicious about the tabs.  There has been no mention of a return but that I should compensate them that the set has been resealed(no mention of a figure).
The other original accusations were that the base board was placed upside down(?) and that the board was on 1 side of the box and the instructions on the other side with the bags in between.  These accusations seem to have died over the various e-mails.

Wow, sounds like dealing with someone very fastidious and/or someone who just wants a discount. Are they convinced that every single piece in every single box is located at the exact same place? I would just keep replying to their messages in a timely manner to show good customer service and listen to their grievances without arguing. However unless they mention a specific figure they want as a refund, I wouldn't offer anything. Just keep reassuring them that this is normal and that you are a LEGO fan yourself with many happy customers.  

Legoboy

At this stage I would stand by my gun.  Effectively, they are unable to return the same set that they received because they have cut the seals and opened it.  You have advertised and sold a sealed set.  They have received one.  They have opened it and hopefully acknoedged it is complete.  If not, get that out of them.  A sealed set (with original seal tabs) that was complete when opened.

If I were you I would put a phone call into EBay to get your side across to them early doors.  Verbal is better understood than trying to ask them to interpret you mailing about double seals and batch codes etc.  Explain it person to person.  There is no claim as yet, but should there be (and it sounds like there might be very soon), eBay will have that memo left by their rep to hopefully get it across in English to the claim decider.

I'm speaking from experience.  Good luck.

Legoboy

The other thing to mention is that if I've understood correctly, the first seal wasn't even cut?  You had two seals intact at the same point of box?  So what!  Hopefully you have the transcript saved with LEGO and can forward to eBay in the event it all goes Pete Tong.  If not, get a one liner out of them again.

I wouldn't worry too much just yet.  Phone eBay.

ReesesPieces

I would give them a link to Lego customer service and have him bring up his issues with them.

jonboy2000

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond.  Hopefully things will work out for the best.

SumoLego

Does this mean I can commit rampant eBay NISB Lego fraud?!?!?



(I photographed a battered set of stickers.  I've been told that the circular stickers were done away with a few years ago.)

willobee498

^ Just be careful not to put sticker sheets inside the instructions, it's a clear giveaway!

jonboy2000

It just get more ridiculous.  Despite explaining that I had contacted Lego directly about the different batch numbers and sought out other peoples experience from this post he still says it was opened.
His "proof" was that he asked 1 persons selling 1 on ebay about their set!  He asked if I would accept a return (to which I didn't reply).  He also was whining that the set wasn't worth it despite being about 35% less than any other comparable set on ebay and that he would have to sell it at a loss.
I explained that he shouldn't have opened it if he had doubts.
His "smoking gun" proof was that there was a finger print on the edge of the sticker sheet.  In 1 picture he sent me the stickers are upside down laying in the instructions as found.  The next picture the stickers are face up with a finger print on the edge of the sheet.

jonboy2000

@SumoLego no batch numbers on the stickers...must try harder : )

bluedragon

@SumoLego I hope that sticker sheet is inside the instructions :)

Fauch

I suggest you offer a 100% discount. and send him a 2nd identical misb set for free. and praise him.

ryjay

I'd offer 100% refund, buyer pays shipping back and move on to the next sale.  I'm not debating with any buyer, if you're not happy, return it.   And I bet they don't return it.

SumoLego

Fauch said:

I suggest you offer a 100% discount. and send him a 2nd identical misb set for free. and praise him.

I would send a trophy and giftcard as well.  And a puppy.

madforLEGO

If this is some skeeziks looking for a handout Id tell him to go scratch and get eBay involved if he is so sure. I would not offer jack, eBay would have to pry the cash from my account because last I heard you may get a neg feedback but eBay does not boot anyone for any first 'offense' If the guy is looking for a hand out, make him work for it..  Considering you have LEGO verifying your side and he supposedly has one guy on eBay verifying his I'm guess eBay is not going to give him jack, especially when he admits he was buying to resell it later AND opened it (reducing its value) to 'check it'.
Just my opinion. and I would say next time you sell something take good pictures of the seals and add that to the listing.