Speculation on the upcoming Death Star

eggshen

Paperballpark said:

What's the world coming to when a business actually wants to make MONEY?!

Jeez guys, are you for real? :/

I was just making a funny reference to the old movie Space Balls.

I actually think it was a pretty cunning move on TLG's part. If they had made something completely different, they may have risked people not liking it in favor of #10188. If people had preferred #10188 to the new one, TLG would not have made any money since the second market would have gotten sales.

I actually plan on getting #75159 eventually, but had no plans on getting #10188 due to the figures (petty reason, I know). 

HugeYellowBrick

I actually plan on getting #75159 eventually, but had no plans on getting #10188 due to the figures (petty reason, I know). 

Sounds like a win for TLG.

binaryeye

Aanchir said:

Weren't AFOLs mostly getting hyped about the new Death Star on their own?

Yes. I believe the only thing LEGO has done to create any hype is discontinue #10188. Everything else has come from the rumor mill.

TheLoneTensor

Paperballpark said:

What's the world coming to when a business actually wants to make MONEY?!

Jeez guys, are you for real? :/

Ok, like Sumo mentioning needing a canned response to anyone so ignorant as to directly compare Lego collecting to, say, baseball cards, I need one for this one, because this weed burrows up to the surface a lot.

First off, yeah, I'm for real.  Real enough to get insulted when someone believes they have to actually state that businesses are in it for money.  Yes, they are.  Crime in Gotham.  Water wet.  We. get. it.

What I'm trying to say is that this isn't economics 101 at the community college, and we aren't talking about widgets.  We're discussing something that many of us consider to be a hobby at least, and to the more enlightened, an art form.  Honestly, it's in that which I feel makes us better as humans, and illuminates the key role that business plays in the evolution of humanity - both good and bad.

If I'm getting a bit too esoteric, consider an inverse.  What if a company rapes the environment by dumping chemicals.  They are fully compliant with the law, and when they aren't, they pay the pittance penalty fee and continue to dump.  They are making money, so who are we to judge?  That's what they are there to do.  Screw humanity.  Screw making the world a brighter place.  They need to make their product and have a positive bottom line to appease their shareholders, no matter how many sea otters die off.

My point is, it doesn't have to be all about the money, and it shouldn't be about the money, and for the sake of our progeny it can't be all about the money.  It is, and probably always will be for most businesses, but as long as some folks out there in influential positions feel that it's not all about the money, there's hope for humanity.

I still feel Lego completely dropped the ball on this.  It was a golden opportunity they vomited directly into the toilet, all in the name of profits.  We had a chance here to really see our craft, new parts, new techniques and most importantly, new ideas developed using one of the most iconic things that has ever existed in pop culture as a phenomenal driving force.  Instead, we just end up with a boring, uninspired retread, just because it was determined to be the best way to make money.  Lego should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.

Bottom line, Lego can do whatever they want to make money, and as a result, I can judge them however I want.

Fauch

Down with the system!!!

mr_benn

OK - here's a question.  It's decreed that there is to be a Death Star playset (in the same style, and pretty much the same size, as #10188).  But maybe it can be a bit different from the previous one.  What would we really like to have seen?

Aanchir

mr_benn said:

OK - here's a question.  It's decreed that there is to be a Death Star playset (in the same style, and pretty much the same size, as #10188).  But maybe it can be a bit different from the previous one.  What would we really like to have seen?

One that's more dollhouse style like the Ghostbusters Firehouse Headquarters, with a closed exterior and a hinge to access the interior, was one thing I considered that could've been interesting. But that might've been an unrealistic hope to begin with, since it's much easier to work a sturdy and unobtrusive hinge onto a box-shaped model than a sphere-shaped one. If you cut a sphere in half and open it up, the two sides only really meet at one point.

HugeYellowBrick

I'd like to see how it works. All those shots of the inside and still no explanation how it is powered.

natro220

My vote would be for it to be a playset, but with some sort of a shell at least so it can be properly displayed.  The way 10188 is, it looks more like a bunch of random dioramas mishmashed in the general form of a sphere (even that is debatable).  In addition, with a NEW movie coming out in a few months prominently featuring the thing, they so could have added some scenes and minifigures from it.  On the topic of minifigs, ALL the minifigs in the set need a good rehash, not just a couple.  I think all of those additions would have brought the piece count up to maybe 5000+, but that would then justify the $500 price tag at least.

datsunrobbie

LEGO has to weigh the likelihood of a typical buyer who already owns 10188 dropping another $500 for another Death Star.

In the Brickset database, roughly 9600 of 130,000 members own 10188. 6900 marked it as wanted - but not wanted enough to have actually bought it. Roughly 1800 own 10143. I would guess that anyone who was going to buy the new Death Star either has not yet bought 10188, or bought both 10188 AND 10143. If they have not purchased 10188, then the similarities are a moot point because they don't already own one. If they already have 10188 and were realistically considering the new one, chances are they also already own 10143, and make up a very small portion of the pool of potential buyers. 

Building the Death Star in LEGO back in 1978 was a lot more of a challenge. Any other old folk remember building Star Wars themed MOCs back before LEGO started making them?

CapnRex101

I am not sure whether it would be possible to add a shell of sufficient durability to the model but I do think the display value could be improved with some simple alterations.

• I think the weakest aspect of #10188 is the stepped design on the exterior edge of each wall. A combination of bricks with studs on the side and curved slopes could have resolved that quite easily. 
• The tractor beam terminal area could be improved with some additional detail as it has always looked rather bland to me.
• The two images we have seen so far do not show the window of the Emperor's throne room but I hope that has been improved by the relatively new window element introduced in #75093 Death Star Final Duel. It will be inexcusable laziness if not.
• The lift between the maintenance bay and the hangar bay requires some refinement as the original design did not fit into the floor of the hangar properly.
• I would have omitted Darth Vader's TIE Advanced and the loading rack as it does not look very good in my opinion and also hinders access to the hangar bay for play.
• The play value could have been further improved by allowing the floors to be easily separated, akin to a Modular Building. That would also have allowed the bottom floor to be used properly, even if only for some corridor space.

These are not difficult changes for a LEGO Star Wars designer to implement and I cannot believe that they thought #10188 Death Star was a perfect set, no matter how successful it was.

binaryeye

natro220 said:

In addition, with a NEW movie coming out in a few months prominently featuring the thing, they so could have added some scenes and minifigures from it.

This set will likely be available for a few years at least. The long-term popularity of Rogue One is unknown at this point. The long-term popularity of the original trilogy is known, and the intended audience better matches LEGO's target demographic.

natro220 said:

On the topic of minifigs, ALL the minifigs in the set need a good rehash, not just a couple.

Hm? It looks to me like all of the minifigures have been updated.

bobabricks

@CapnRex101 that's just too much trying for Lego, you gotta give 'em a break.

natro220

@CapnRex101 Do you intend to do an article listing every change Lego makes between the two sets when it comes out?  Assuming Lego provides a copy for you to review.  That would go a long way for AFOL's on the fence about whether or not there's enough "newness" to justify buying the thing.

natro220

binaryeye said:

natro220 said:

In addition, with a NEW movie coming out in a few months prominently featuring the thing, they so could have added some scenes and minifigures from it.

This set will likely be available for a few years at least. The long-term popularity of Rogue One is unknown at this point. The long-term popularity of the original trilogy is known, and the intended audience better matches LEGO's target demographic.

natro220 said:

On the topic of minifigs, ALL the minifigs in the set need a good rehash, not just a couple.

Hm? It looks to me like all of the minifigures have been updated.

Oh, I thought I read that they only changed up a couple (I didn't actually look at them myself).  If they did update them all, then that's something at least.

CapnRex101

@natro220 - Yes, although it may be incorporated into the main review.

fourstud

A giant, giant picture of the back of the box is now out, thus ruining all claims it is fake.

SprinkleOtter

CM4S said:

A giant, giant picture of the back of the box is now out, thus ruining all claims it is fake.

@CM4S Link, please...

binaryeye

The lack of a non-Stormtrooper Han is a bit glaring. Maybe it's been held out for a promo.

starwars4ever

SprinkleOtter said:

CM4S said:

A giant, giant picture of the back of the box is now out, thus ruining all claims it is fake.

@CM4S Link, please...

They are all on google images and on From Bricks to Bothans main page. I don't think links to leaked images are allowed.

binaryeye

So in terms of actual minifigures, it looks like there are three more in the new version:
Admiral Motti

C-3PO

Chewbacca

Darth Vader

Emperor Palpatine

Grand Moff Tarkin

Han Solo

Han Solo (Stormtrooper)
Imperial Gunner (2)

Imperial Navy Trooper (2)

Luke Skywalker

Luke Skywalker (Jedi)

Luke Skywalker (Stormtrooper)

Obi-Wan Kenobi
Princess Leia

Protocol Droid
RA-7 Protocol Droid

Royal Guard (2)

Stormtrooper (2)
Stormtrooper Officer

And for droids, it looks like one fewer:
Assassin Droid
Interrogation Droid
Mouse Droid
R2-D2
R2-Q5
R3-M3

TigerMoth

starwars4ever said:

I don't think links to leaked images are allowed.

As @Huw posted a couple of days ago, links to leaked images are permitted, but you may not post the image itself here.

fourstud

Tatooine Han is in the set, he's just not in the current images.

bobabricks

CM4S said:

Tatooine Han is in the set, he's just not in the current images.

Wait you mean black vest right? Certainly not desert skiff version..

SumoLego

eggshen said:

#75159 The Death Star 2, The Search for More Money

Merchandising!  Off to buy my SW Lego toilet paper.

https://youtu.be/fgRFQJCHcPw

Penkid11

I think all of this would have been remedied if Lego just came clean and said:

"Hey, guys. It's been eight years, and we want to update the Death Star. It will be out of production for a few months, but we'll have it available again before Christmas."

We'd all sit here content until they officially confirm it's $500...

Then we riot.

SumoLego

HugeYellowBrick said:

I'd like to see how it works. All those shots of the inside and still no explanation how it is powered.

As soon as George Lucas (er... Disney Imagineers) figures that out, you'll be the first to know.

But, I'm pretty sure it's powered by a series of reactors.  There's one in prisoner control.

https://youtu.be/_V3M89xf9uw

SumoLego

CapnRex101 said:

• The play value could also have been improved by allowing the floors to be easily separated, akin to a Modular Building. That would also have allowed the bottom floor to be used properly, even if only for some corridor space.

Did you say 'modular'?  There better be some friction pins.  Then we can add that to the list of things to argue about!

Although that would be a nice design feature to be able to expand the DS...

prevere

I wonder if they've strengthened the laser? My 2-year-old thinks that's the easiest way to disarm the fully armed and operational battle station.

empire

prevere said:

I wonder if they've strengthened the laser? My 2-year-old thinks that's the easiest way to disarm the fully armed and operational battle station.

Your 2 year old son is a rebel and a traitor.

waynlewis

Is there any hope for the rumored Snowspeeder UCS model?? Or any new UCS models?

playwell

I hope they continue to kill the aftermarket and give us a ucs millennium falcon

SumoLego

I'm not one bit surprised that this is essentially the same playset.  There is obviously enough of a market that sustained this behemoth for many, many years.  Although it would be nice to see some of the design items @CapnRex101 mentioned above, I am happy the set simply remains available.

raven1840

I am dreading this set now. The connectable series, outside of modulars, hasn't worked yet imho.

starwars4ever

Next is the minifigure scale Star Scavenger. It will be first decent UCS set in a while! ;)

chrisalddin

ARE YOU TELLING ME THE IMAGE I FOUND 2 DAYS AGO WAS REAL?
omg.... it's the same set.
this is not cool.
well it cool if, i find my self with lot's of cash and no set's to buy in 2 years time i could buy this. but i not going to go out of my way to get it.
and now all the old death star play sets that are sitting unopened have just been devalued.

Molican

I have a question about the original set and I think this seems the right place. So after hearing that the new one will be a rehash, I finally decided to put out my "sealed" 10188 and check if I may sell it quick.. But, when inspecting the seals, they were broken. I bought this set 2 or 3 years ago and I don't know why I didn't check the seals properly then. So I opened it and all boxes "1" to "4" inside are sealed and the manual seems to be untouched. There was no sticker sheet outside the 4 boxes.  Is the sticker sheet then inside one of the boxes then?

snowhitie

I know a lot of people are disappointed with this set. I however, agree with @bandit778; I never picked up the #10188 because of the dated figs. I had a lot of Lego as a kid/teenager and my parents don't want to hand it over (God knows why) so we've only got Lego from the last years so I felt it would be easier to not get into older figs (and be tempted by spending lots of money on retired sets).

I doubted very much to drop the cash on it when it was rumoured to retire  (and then again when it was a bit more sure it was going to retire (and then even more doubts when it was really going to retire (and the some more when it went out of stock and back in again so it was surely going to retire))). But I though I'll wait for a new version.

I think @CapnRex101 makes some excellent points about improvements that could have been made and it's too bad Lego didn't take that opportunity, but still, that way people who have the old one don't have to spend a lot of money just to have a bit of a better build/special minifigs (guess that's similar to your thinking @sumolego ?). Although it might mess with the completionist amongst us like @legoboy ...
I'm pretty pleased I didn't plug for the old one even though this one is more expensive.

I totally understand a lot of people would have wanted something new but for those of us who are pretty recent AFOL's or all the kids that are still coming along I think it's a good (and in my opinion quite expected ) move.

I do agree with @ecmo47 that it would be nice to have an announcement from Lego that a statement about a 'rehash' from TLG would have been nice to quell the excitement of some (and my worry about buying the old one or not), but on the other hand I do understand their reasons for secrecy as well. I think they sold a lot of Death Stars at the end to people upping their stock, whereas if everyone was sure it was going to be a remake, people might have held back from buying 60.

bobabricks

@Molican the sheet is in box 1.

Fauch

if they said it was a rehash, they wouldn't sell a ton of the old one to resellers.

tecjam

It may be the only country, but it's never been gone in Germany! McRib! Wir schaffen das!

ps: Has the death star retired yet?

Scott1

tecjam said:

ps: Has the death star retired yet?

If you mean 10188, yes, it has. It retired around last Christmas.

Aanchir

Scott1 said:

tecjam said:

ps: Has the death star retired yet?

If you mean 10188, yes, it has. It retired around last Christmas.

How long after release before we're allowed to begin asking when the new one will retire? A week? Two weeks?

chrisalddin

i wish to set a task for someone. to give the death star playset. a outer shell.

SprinkleOtter

chrisalddin said:

i wish to set a task for someone. to give the death star playset. a outer shell.

I'm already working on it, but College just fstarted, and that takes up a lot of time....

Mynatt

It is a bit of an older post from 2009 but someone did just that to 10188:

http://www.fbtb.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1216

bobabricks

I wonder how many extra pieces it is to do the cover. Can't be more than 1500.

SprinkleOtter

bobabricks said:

I wonder how many extra pieces it is to do the cover. Can't be more than 1500.

But they are expensive parts. I just completed a Bricklinked SSD. I know.

bobabricks

SprinkleOtter said:

bobabricks said:

I wonder how many extra pieces it is to do the cover. Can't be more than 1500.

But they are expensive parts. I just completed a Bricklinked SSD. I know.

I was more or less leading to production cost, if Lego was to do this to the official model...

ecmo47

Not very kid-friendly but very cool!