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Is this baseplate damaged? And what the rapture??

245

Comments

  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,643
    edited June 2016
    CCC said:
    MattsWhat said:
    ^why does another persons opinion bother you that much though? 
    It is not just an opinion if it is printed on a leaflet and included with shopping.
    So if I get some business cards and print 'Market Street is not a modular' on them, post them out with my bricklink orders - is that then a fact?  Would that stop you shopping with me?  I don't see a line here at all, religion isn't a special fancy thing that is any different to any other opinion.  The fact that it wrote it down and gave it to you just means I was too lazy to tell you in person.
    Anyway, this is far too high brow for Brickset, let's get back to the drooping holes.
    Furrysaurus
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    The 'advertising' on that card might be illegal in the UK, given that it states that believing in Jesus will mean you don't die and instead will give you everlasting life - fairly sure that's misleading. 

    There was a similar discussion before the release of TFA when the church of england wanted to advertise in cinemas and Odeon, Cineworld and Vue chains refused to allow it. 
    MattDawson
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark UKMember Posts: 3,388
    edited June 2016
    TigerMoth said:
    It's a piece of printed card. The significance attached to it, good or bad, is yours and yours alone.
    We once received a 'piece of printed card' (a postcard) at work, with no details of who it was from. On one side was a photo of a doctor with his arms outstretched and hands together, palms open.

    Laid out in his hands, was an aborted foetus.

    Thankfully I was the one who picked up the post that morning, rather than the lady who also worked there. It went straight in the bin.

    So forgive me if I choose to believe that 'pieces of card' can have quite an effect on people. If you sell Lego to people, you should not be trying to change their religious or moral beliefs while doing so.
    cheshirecatPeteMkiki180703catwranglerRirinettesnowhitieTheBigLegoski
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,629
    edited June 2016
    The 'advertising' on that card might be illegal in the UK, given that it states that believing in Jesus will mean you don't die and instead will give you everlasting life - fairly sure that's misleading.

    How can you prove its misleading?

    SprinkleOtterkiki180703legomental
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited June 2016
    ^I see what you did there.. :)

    However, the ASA rules mean that I don't have to its up to the advertiser to prove that they aren't misleading...

    "We expect advertisers to hold evidence to back up their claim"
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,629
    But faith cant be justified, you are justified through faith.
  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,643
    TigerMoth said:
    It's a piece of printed card. The significance attached to it, good or bad, is yours and yours alone.
    We once received a 'piece of printed card' (a postcard) at work, with no details of who it was from. On one side was a photo of a doctor with his arms outstretched and hands together, palms open.

    Laid out in his hands, was an aborted foetus.

    Thankfully I was the one who picked up the post that morning, rather than the lady who also worked there. It went straight in the bin.

    So forgive me if I choose to believe that 'pieces of card' can have quite an effect on people. If you sell Lego to people, you should not be trying to change their religious or moral beliefs while doing so.
    But in this example you are not offended by the opinion, just the nature of the image they chose to use.  That's exactly the same as saying all religion is bad due to terrorism - a minority example which isn't reflective of the whole.  Speech should be free for everyone, if they choose to do that through a leaflet so be it.  What shouldn't be free is trying to upset people - advertising can't be misleading and you can complain if you found it offensive etc.  Shocking you isn't the same thing as giving you my opinion.

    How is buying Lego any different to, for example, walking down the street or coming on the forum?  People can give you a passing sentence or a leaflet at any point in your life.  Provided the content isn't designed to shock/upset then I don't see why people have a problem.  Everyone seems happy to ignore the opinions they don't like on here, why is any other part of life different, or rather why is any part of life exempt from one specific opinion (religious belief) where people are happy to receive a leaflet claiming Burger King is better than McD (also an opinion).
    SprinkleOtterkiki180703
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    MattsWhat said:
    CCC said:
    MattsWhat said:
    ^why does another persons opinion bother you that much though? 
    It is not just an opinion if it is printed on a leaflet and included with shopping.
    So if I get some business cards and print 'Market Street is not a modular' on them, post them out with my bricklink orders - is that then a fact?  Would that stop you shopping with me?  I don't see a line here at all, religion isn't a special fancy thing that is any different to any other opinion. 
    It would depend on why I think you are doing it. There must be some reason for you to do it, otherwise why do it? If I thought that the reason you were doing it was to insult to me (if for example I had an alternative opinion), then I wouldn't shop with you again. Even if you didn't do it to insult me, if I thought that was your intention, that is all that matters.

    If you were selling me a newspaper and I was overweight, and you gave me a leaflet about Weightwatchers, I might not shop with you again if I thought that it was a personal attack. You might have put that leaflet in with everyone's newspaper, I don't know, but as a retailer you should know not to upset customers if you want to keep them. Is the gain you get from including those leaflets more than what you lose by alienating customers.

    As to the line between advertising religion and products, if you don't see one that is fine for you. That is why I have used the phrase "for me" a couple of times. I don't believe advertising religion should be part of a business transaction. I think religion is different to products. Of course, the lines are occasionally blurred (things like football team support, some premium brands such as Apple products, etc) where products become religions / cults depending on your point of view.

    Imagine if a future generation in the family was strongly religious and followed a branch of Christian exclusivism, and as a company LEGO started to put strongly Christian literature in with every set telling their customers that they will be going to hell if they do not follow the business owners' beliefs. Even if the customers do not believe in hell, I reckon that would be a bad business decision. It's inappropriate for me, as I do not believe religion should be advertised that way.


    TheBigLegoski
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    MattsWhat said:

    Speech should be free for everyone, if they choose to do that through a leaflet so be it. 
    I agree free speech is for everyone. But an audience isn't. If you offend someone (intentionally or not), then you stand to lose part of that audience. Just because someone can say what they like doesn't mean someone else has to listen to it. If you choose to do it through your business, then your business is at risk.
    catwranglerTheBigLegoski
  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,643
    edited June 2016
    ^your business is at risk because you are making really bad decisions if you think the cost of printing them is a good investment (for your business).  Don't let your heart make business decisions.
    Fair enough, you would not shop with them again, that's up to you at the end of the day.  But my question was why you feel differently about religion.  What is it about religion in particular that evokes that reaction?  I guess I am just interested rather than trying to influence you.  I agree with the whole fat person/weight watchers leaflet, but I don't know what the religious equivalent of a fat person is.

    In response to @cheshirecat , I'm not sure religious stuff hits the same advertising rules of 'proving'.  In the same way Coke don't have to prove that Santa drinks their drink for example.  It's almost as if they believe it to be widely understood to be wrong maybe.
    TheBigLegoski
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    MattsWhat said:

    Fair enough, you would not shop with them again, that's up to you at the end of the day.  But my question was why you feel differently about religion.  What is it about religion in particular that evokes that reaction?  I guess I am just interested rather than trying to influence you.

    Because I don't believe religion is a product, and I don't think it is something that should be advertised like a product.

    Of course, that is at odds with some religions. The Church were not happy when the Lord's Prayer advert was "banned" from cinemas. Of course, it wasn't actually banned, but the advertising company decided not to run it in cinemas as they thought it might cause offense and hence lose them customers.

    And if religion is a product and advertised as such, then should it be treated any differently to a can of Coke? Coke is nice on a hot day, but other products are available and may be a bit cheaper.

    TheBigLegoski
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,871
    For a Christian, business man or otherwise, the call to witness in a loving manner trumps any concerns of whether someone might be offended. Jesus himself said people will be offended. The key is to try to form relationships and give people a reason to believe you. Perhaps this seller feels strongly convicted to use his business as part of his ministry. If a totally passive, non judgemental (nothing hateful or inflammatory) piece of paper with words on it offends you, then that's on you. Not the person that gave it to you. The seller cares more about what his Savior thinks of him / her than whether you continue to do business With them. Now if they were terrible as a business person and tried to cheat you or give you poor service, that is a different matter.

    And to answer an earlier question. I get random things on my door all the time from different religious groups that I don't agree with. It doesn't offend me in the least. 
    SMCSprinkleOtterFurrysaurusGoldfreekkiki180703oldtodd33adol7
  • PeteMPeteM Gallifrey (near Bristol)Member Posts: 397
    If I got something like that through in a Bricklink (or any other shop) order, I wouldn't say it would affect my feedback (so long as the pieces are there in the stated condition) - I find it difficult to be offended by something I think is made up.

    In this case though I would definitely bookmark their store - if they are convinced that they are going to beamed up to heaven due to the imminent return of Christ (2000 years and waiting), hopefully they'll have time for a decent closing down sale before ascending...
    Furrysauruscheshirecatplasmodiumkiki180703TheBigLegoski
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,731
    PeteM said:
    If I got something like that through in a Bricklink (or any other shop) order, I wouldn't say it would affect my feedback (so long as the pieces are there in the stated condition) - I find it difficult to be offended by something I think is made up.

    In this case though I would definitely bookmark their store - if they are convinced that they are going to beamed up to heaven due to the imminent return of Christ (2000 years and waiting), hopefully they'll have time for a decent closing down sale before ascending...
    Just wondering- why talk about something that you don't know anything about and don't believe in, only to show that you know nothing about it?
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    ^ You don't have to believe in a religion to understand its faults (or its positives).
    TheBigLegoski
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,731
    ^ Yet he showed that he does not.
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,629
    SumoLego said:
    My chihuahua is trying to attack a deer.  Be back later!

    If by chihuahua you mean Wales and by dear you mean England I have the same problem.

    Be back after the match!

    BumblepantsMattDawsoncheshirecatPeteMdrdavewatfordkiki180703TechnicNickeanair
  • PeteMPeteM Gallifrey (near Bristol)Member Posts: 397
    PeteM said:
    If I got something like that through in a Bricklink (or any other shop) order, I wouldn't say it would affect my feedback (so long as the pieces are there in the stated condition) - I find it difficult to be offended by something I think is made up.

    In this case though I would definitely bookmark their store - if they are convinced that they are going to beamed up to heaven due to the imminent return of Christ (2000 years and waiting), hopefully they'll have time for a decent closing down sale before ascending...
    Just wondering- why talk about something that you don't know anything about and don't believe in, only to show that you know nothing about it?
    It was intended to be a light-hearted remark based on my overwhelming quest for cheaper Lego at the expense of my immortal soul, rather than an 'accurate' portrayal of what would happen (though not even believers seem quite clear on an exact programme of events). As I'm fairly sure I'm not on the 'save list' anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about my lack of knowledge :)
    TheBigLegoskilegomental
  • bandit778bandit778 Docking Bay 94. Member Posts: 1,902
    edited June 2016
    While this religious leaflet banter is all very enlightening, some people seem to be missing the most important bit.
    If there are lots of people that are leaving the party early, what's happening to their Lego collections and can i have first dibs on those that are not needed anymore.

    SumoLegokiki180703Pitfall69catwrangler
  • Bricklover18Bricklover18 PA, USAMember Posts: 720

    My chihuahua is trying to attack a deer.  Be back later!
    Is it a piranha dog? A dog that will eat out of your hand but will also eat your hand? 
    SumoLegokiki180703
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,629
    edited June 2016
    ^ I hope that's not deer in his mouth!
    SumoLegobobabricks
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    SMC said:
    SumoLego said:
    My chihuahua is trying to attack a deer.  Be back later!

    If by chihuahua you mean Wales and by dear you mean England I have the same problem.

    Be back after the match!

    Deer bite back. St George has slain the dragon.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    Despite the best efforts of woy England managed to nick a win
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,629

    CCC said:
    Deer bite back. St George has slain the dragon.

    To be clear I wrote it that way around because at the time Wales were winning not because they were my Wales.

    I can be accused of many things but being Welsh is not one of them.

    TheBigLegoski
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    So what would happen if in the next BL order someone gets from Wales, they use scrumpled newspaper for packaging that happens to be the back pages of  tomorrow's papers ...?
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Has anyone heard any similar uproar against In-N-Out Burgers considering they have Bible verses sprinkled throughout their offerings and packaging? Noticed this decades ago under their cups but never affected my love or repeat business for a Double-Double with grilled onions.

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-story-behind-the-Bible-verses-on-In-N-Out-cups-and-burger-wrappers

    Pitfall69pharmjodbandit778kiki180703gmonkey76
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,251
    religions are getting quite a bashing, aren't they?
    at least, religions are mostly about promoting positive values, how to become better. (and not mostly about promoting war). I think there must be far more people trying to do good for religious reasons than causing harm for the same reason.

    In another hand we are spammed all the time with messages promoting materialism and that we should all aim for more money and power but those seem ok...

    I still think the card was not relevant in that case.
    SprinkleOtterpharmjodkiki180703Bumblepantslegomental
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,871
    There are several companies that are Christian based and wildly successful. Chic-fil-a may be one of the most prominent. Clearly there are plenty of people that don't get their knickers in a twist over it. And those that do can protest and see where that gets them =)
    SprinkleOtterkiki180703cody6268
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Fauch said:

    religions are getting quite a bashing, aren't they?
    I wonder why.

    I mentioned this whole scenario to some people earlier. The consensus was along the lines that it was if people were afraid - that the card either had the power to burn your fingers to ashes, or perhaps to somehow to "infect" you with, presumably, religious zeal.

    The thing is that, for people who really don't believe in some sort of supreme being, it is just a piece of card with no meaning; for those that do, it is either a piece of evangelism (and therefore presumably legitimate) or a bit of advertising on behalf of "a competitor" - although I suspect the latter doesn't apply to most people here. So you really need another scenario - namely that the complainants are most likely not ardent believers, but have a nagging doubt that they should be, and that religion therefore needs to be kept at arm's length.
    SprinkleOtterpharmjodkiki180703oldtodd33
  • PeteMPeteM Gallifrey (near Bristol)Member Posts: 397
    TigerMoth said:
    Fauch said:

    religions are getting quite a bashing, aren't they?
    I wonder why.

    I mentioned this whole scenario to some people earlier. The consensus was along the lines that it was if people were afraid - that the card either had the power to burn your fingers to ashes, or perhaps to somehow to "infect" you with, presumably, religious zeal.

    The thing is that, for people who really don't believe in some sort of supreme being, it is just a piece of card with no meaning;  
    Agreed - as I said above. Though most of the so-called 'bashing' posts are just having fun with the incongruity of it, in the same way they would if it had been a flyer advertising Mega Blocks!

    TigerMoth said:
     
    So you really need another scenario - namely that the complainants are most likely not ardent believers, but have a nagging doubt that they should be, and that religion therefore needs to be kept at arm's length.
    That's a lovely straw man - here's mine. I should imagine that any irritation stems from the presumed motivation behind the card - an unsolicited desire to influence the recipient in some way. There may be no ill will intended but, depending on someone's previous interactions and engagement with religious bodies, this could be considered quite an unwelcome, even offensive, intrusion.
    catwranglerTheBigLegoski
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    What utter bullocks, perhaps after a life of having religion forced upon us at school, arguing against the same nonsense forced on your kids at school, you just want to be given a rest. Its unnecesary, exactly why those who are religious here don't preach it in every post they make as it would clearly annoy even if they feel they should spread the words of whoever is important to them. As I said earlier, I would just toss it in the bin and not overly care just as I do various political fliers I get, double glazing and conservatories and offers from Able and Cole veg boxes. But as with all of those I'd rather not have to bother.If I want double glazing I'll ask for it, if I want political advice I'll ask for it, if I want religious advice I'll ask for it. Placing an order for lego bricks isnt asking for any of those.

    As a general rule its a good idea not to assume you know what someone else thinks and even less why they think it. Its almost the ultimate example of a know-it-all, who almost certainly doesn't know it all.
    PeteMcatwranglerPaperballparkTheBigLegoskidrdavewatford
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,354
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,251
    at least, unlike with the political flyer, I could think the religious dude actually believes what he says XD
    legomentalRainstorm26
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    PeteM said:

    I should imagine that any irritation stems from the presumed motivation behind the card - an unsolicited desire to influence the recipient in some way.
    But what's special about religion?

    Some voters are genuinely floating, but a good many are very polarised in their attitudes. Come the elections, doormats disappear under propaganda from all parties - declared enemies sometimes. They "wrong" ones may be treated with contempt and ridiculed, but they're accepted as part of the process. A religious leaflet, however, is deemed offensive.

    Political leaflets are, of course, definitely trying to influence the recipient.
    What utter bullocks, perhaps after a life of having religion forced upon us at school, arguing against the same nonsense forced on your kids at school, you just want to be given a rest.
    Don't you want to be given a rest from the referendum lies? I suspect you're more likely to just shrug and aim them at the round filing cabinet, than to take offence at them.
    If I want double glazing I'll ask for it, if I want political advice I'll ask for it, if I want religious advice I'll ask for it.
    I can go along with that. But your attitude to double glazing salesmen and politicians is different.
    As a general rule its a good idea not to assume you know what someone else thinks and even less why they think it.
    Then don't.

    The question of why religion, in particular, is so offensive reared its head. It seems a good question. I asked around and only got one logically consistent response.I still don't know the answer, because every reason presented seems to have a non-religious parallel that doesn't illicit the same response.

    Even putting a big spoon in the pot doesn't get an answer.
    SprinkleOtter
  • RirinetteRirinette CanadaMember Posts: 84
    Pitfall69 said:
    Well...she is getting up there in age; she's bound to have droopy holes....wait....are we talking about baseplates still?
    Just curious... were those my holes that you were talking about?? O_o
  • ryjayryjay Member Posts: 984
    edited June 2016
    hmmmm....me, I'd just look at if for a sec,  flip it over to see if there was a coupon on my next order, if not then toss it.  Dang, I think  I need to have a stronger reaction.....nahhh......oh, and God bless you all :)
    Furrysaurusoldtodd33
  • Pumpkin_3CK5Pumpkin_3CK5 CaliforniaMember Posts: 762
    edited June 2016
    Imagine if sellers were just wondering which one would irritate you more: droopy-holed
    base plates or random cards thrown in? Maybe other orders got restaurant cards or entire menus.

    Repent! And thou shalt be saved!


  • legobodlegobod CA USAMember Posts: 213
    A nonreligious person has just as much right to be annoyed or offended at someone trying to impose their beliefs on them as a religious person's right to be annoyed or offended at anything antireligious. Having a belief in a higher being does not make you better than nonbelievers and does not give you the right to try and change their lives no matter how honest or well meaning your intentions are. Religion is a choice not a requirement and anyone who insists they need to convert people can go build some mega blocks.
    Anyway, England were pretty lucky, played better and had more chances but we were unlucky to not get at least a point from the game. As long as we beat Russia and make it through to the next round then it will be a big success for us being one of the smallest European countries and all.
    catwranglerTheBigLegoski
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,354
    Ririnette said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    Well...she is getting up there in age; she's bound to have droopy holes....wait....are we talking about baseplates still?
    Just curious... were those my holes that you were talking about?? O_o
    No, Candace Cameron...I am not sure I want to have this conversation ;)
  • LusiferSamLusiferSam MontanaMember Posts: 470
    As a life long and fairly hard core atheist this sort stuff mildly annoys me on good days to ticks me off on bad.  Over the years I've gotten a lot of dumb and unwanted business card from folks on eBay and Bricklink.  Most I can blow off and throw away.  But I've never gotten one that was so blatant.

    Personally I think I'd waste the stamp and send it back.  Depending on my mood I might possibly include a note or my own made up atheist card.  Or maybe a Church of Satan card and see if I can offend them.  I don't really care if people want to believe or not.  That's your business, please don't make it mine.
    TheBigLegoski
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,251
     Or maybe a Church of Satan card and see if I can offend them.
    then they will probably try twice as hard to save you XD
    pharmjodRainstorm26
  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,643
    As a life long and fairly hard core atheist
    How can believe in something less than someone that doesn't believe in it?
    SprinkleOtterpharmjodRainstorm26
  • catwranglercatwrangler Northern IrelandMember Posts: 1,732
    "Rapture" has stopped looking like a word to me; now every time I see this thread, for some reason my brain defaults to "rupture"...
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,507
    MattsWhat said:
    As a life long and fairly hard core atheist
    How can believe in something less than someone that doesn't believe in it?
    Quite easily. Compare a hard core atheist with a wishy-washy atheist. Just like comparing a Christian that is devout with one that attends church at Christmas only.

  • LusiferSamLusiferSam MontanaMember Posts: 470
    ^ You're right I don't believe in any of this stuff.  And you're correct in that it's malicious (and immature) reaction to get to piss people off.  It's a knee jerk reaction to try and offend them in the most viscerally way I can.  Would I do it?  Not likely.  The more I think about it the more work it sounds like for a joke that I don't even get to see.

    If somebody insults you with what you know is an empty threat (eternal damnation) you should still be insulted.
    BOBJACK_JACKBOB
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