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Can we close General Discussion Threads
playwell
Member Posts: 2,280
So we have had General Discussion Threads around for 9 months now and we even have our first new one.
@The_Mad_Vulcan just started a topic in the forum "General Mixels Discussion Thread" and said:
"I didn't see a thread for Mixels, and greatly appreciate the General threads. The most recent discussion thread was about Series 6."
My original idea was not to have a number of random General threads floating around in the collecting category that I started.
My original idea was this:
http://bricksetforum.com/discussion/21300/suggestions-for-forum-improvements
To have a General category with a thread for each current line and major former lines, this could be used instead of starting a new topic if you had a small comment to make. If you had a large point to make or there was a new D2C set coming out you would still have the Collecting category which could be used in the same way it always has been used.
Maybe this was and still is hard to explain but here is a bad Photoshop to clear things up:
For a few reasons I would now like to see my general threads closed.
They were created to see if they would work and if they would be used, 5 out of 7 have been used and are still active to this day.
But I think its time to do it properly, to make a topic for every line in its own category so that they can be easily found and for them to stop taking up room in the Collecting category.
This would mean we could drop the word 'general' from all of the threads.
Also and sadly because of the reaction I received I hate the sight of them. (just being honest here).
So can you please close all my general topics and if you want to do it properly great if not people are free to restart the topics if they are wanted.
Thanks
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Comments
Gimme back my threads!
I'm happy that the Marketplace Threads are closed promptly once the items are traded/sold. Thank you again to the mods!
It would also appear that some folks are utilizing the 'General' threads to continue discussions on particular themes. I'm not sure why that would warrant closing the threads. Isn't that the point?
I think this would be the argument for either not doing it at all (which to be fair was the case before I started the general threads), or having it in its own category where the popular themes would rise to the top and the others would drop down but would still be easy to find and without taking up room in the collecting category.
...
OK so I was being a bit cheeky with the way I present it this time around. I thought if I started a new topic with "Lets expand the General Discussion Threads and give them there own category" I would be hammered again. By asking for them to be closed I got @SumoLego to admit that some people use these threads.
The experiment didn't fail it worked, people are still using the topics and someone even saw the value in adding another with the 'General Mixels Discussion Thread' in January which is still being used today.
That fact that these threads are doing well is bittersweet as they do reminder of a time when people here were very unkind:
Two people personal messaged me to abuse me.
A topic was started to make fun of the general threads.
As well as being given a hard time in the original thread, I was also given a hard time in a number of other unrelated threads.
When I posted a Marketplace thread I was offered Lego in return for changing the 'General Threads".
But a big thank you again to Huw who sorted this out.
So I guess I had two points to make with this thread.
1. My idea had some merit, it doesn't mean it should have been implemented but it should have led to a thoughtful discussion.
2. We should all be a little nicer to each other, incidentally all the posts that are liked in this thread are the unkind ones.
(at the time of writing @Huw and @plasmodium were the only replies without likes)
Thanks all
I said this back in September when this whole thing started, and I'll say it again as this is being brought back up... I'm not really sure what's wrong with the way everything is running now. Personally, I like the forum the way it is currently structured. I've never had problems finding what I want to read about. If anything, I have more problems looking for specific material in your "general" threads. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Just because you and one other person find it useful, doesn't mean the rest of us do. It's a small sample size, but I think you're hearing plenty more adverse opinions above.
Personally, I wouldn't consider 5 of the 7 threads successful, considering 3 of them have just over 100 comments since September (I'll admit, slight stretch on Ninjago with that), which is less than a comment a day.
None of that is meant to be harsh, it's just my opinion. Which is what everything in this thread is so far, individual opinions. I'm not sure why you are able to state your opinion as much as you want and tab it as thoughtful... and then anytime someone states their own opinion that disagrees with your own, you label it as "unkind". If you really want to have a thoughtful conversation, you'll stop acting like you're always a victim.
Stop trying to control things, and let threads germinate naturally, like most human communication has for millennia.
I had a much longer and eloquent post, but as is prone to happen, it wasn't saved.
1) @Huw as very fair about your threads, you are acting very petulant.
2) You made me agree with @TheLoneTensor.
I think I'd be overstepping my bounds by demanding administrative review over all new threads - solely because I am a gooder language enthusiast.
Like others say, just let things evolve naturally rather than trying to over-engineer the forum. I don't think your suggestion would really make things clearer or easier to navigate.
FWIW, I didn't really mean my comment above in an unkind fashion. I didn't really mind what you did, but you must understand how you annoyed a lot of long-standing members by proposing changes to the organisation of the forum, and then, when they gave you reasoned replies as to why not, you ignored them and went ahead anyway. I'm pretty sure that's why you earned their ire - by your response, not your original idea.
The fact remains that if a thread is 'dead' (ie, no one commenting) there's no reason to close it. It'll be buried naturally and if someone really has something relevant to say, they might dig it up. As far as I understand, closing is for topics where input would be counterintuitive, such as topics that have turned into pointless or vitriolic arguments, or sale topics where everything has been sold (even then, I think many people just let the topic bury itself naturally). Closing the general topics won't change anything - they'll still be there, and if people are actually using them, it'll actually be more annoying than leaving them open.
1) They are not your threads, they are our threads. You cannot dictate how a thread should be used if it goes in a different direction to what you wanted. (Marketplace threads excepted).
2) And that mixels thread was started in January.
Unkind doesn't mean that someone has a different opinion to you.
I agree with this, and it is why I never thought that they were a good idea either.
If there is one general Star Wars thread, for example, then if all SW discussion goes there then there are multiple conversions in a single thread, which means it is difficult to follow. Better each specific subject (which in total would be general, but individually they are specific) goes into its own thread to keep a continuous conversation on one topic.
Or part of a conversation might be in a general thread and part in a specific thread which later breaks off.
Also there have been many other specific threads set up that could have gone into the general threads if people had wanted them to. The fact that they were posted as specific topics suggests that general threads are not so successful.
I don't want to see Brickset become a eurobricks clone, where SW is in one section, licensed, historical, pirates, trains, city, etc in others. Of course, within the sections, there are then specific threads on different subjects depending on how the administrators want their section to be run. If people want that type of structure then they should use eurobricks. And obviously not break their rules multiple times and get banned.
As a consequence I have no opinion on this issue other than to say, one topic per theme is quite clearly useless, especially for a theme the size of SW. Having a whole section on each theme would sort that, but would then make it so there were millions of sections which would be useless anyway. Also, I'm not sure that having a thread ready in case the topic comes up is as useful as creating one when it does.
If it ain't broke don't fix it I say (and if you like the lay out of another forum better (people keep saying eurobricks, which I don't spend much time on as I can never find anything!), then spend your time over there rather than trying to make everything on the web the same. Different strokes and all that).
^ That's exactly what I was thinking.
When I first joined I looked at all the different sub-categories or whatever they're called, and after finding it hard work to browse them efficiently I happened across the /discussions 'view' and have stayed there ever since (once I'd worked out how to get straight to that address from Brickset proper).
Then I read each new post/reply I am interested in since my last visit and then mark all viewed.
My only problem is the occasional titlegore entry which can lead me to visit threads which can be a surprise when I get there, but I can live with that (context aside, I had very little clue about "Challenging Cycle for Ovaries" before I visited - hope the prep for that is going well @MattsWhat).
I have noticed that this forum is replies heavy and original post light - but that's not an issue in and of itself, unless content starts to stagnate. If that happens we can always post photoshopped/mspaint Lego memes...
I had nearly forgotten the earlier thread, but I wasn't surprised to find it had something to do with...you guessed it, closing general discussion topics.
(I prefer Discussions too fwiw).
As people have said it is horses for courses and the way you view the forums is not the same as everyone else. Threads will die and resurrect organically on here and I think the forum is a better place for it.
So nice try, you have given it your best shot, now just move along and no need to bring up the past or bury it. It will always be there just move along onwards and upwards and enjoy what you have.
The only exceptions to that might be REALLY short-lived and recurring topics like "Look at my latest MOC" or "Identify this part please?" threads, where you never really need any more context than the last several posts.
With that said, I do like the idea of having sub-topics for space, castle, Belville, Galidor, Mixels, Trains, Star Wars, Nexo Knights, etc, etc, etc. Because hey, there are some themes that I'd like to read about.
The only solution I can imagine that would work in the current framework might be tagging threads with relevant topics. IE, not making their own distinct areas (because there would be dozens or even hundreds), but making context tags that could be searched on, notified on, etc.
That way you could (say) have a little "Subscribed Topics" area in which all the tags you subscribed to would show up.
But since that's likely coding at the Vanilla Forums level, and (I expect) not something that the BrickSet forum config could be set up to do as-is, that's likely just a pipe dream.
DaveE
1) General threads can have a place (eg the deals threads in UK Shopping), but can also kill a community. If they take off, they can be great for regular members to chat with each other. But their size can off putting to new members, who may think they'd need to read everything to catch up. When the older members move on, there may little community left to replace them.
2) Intentions for what does and doesn't go in to a general thread can be well intentioned, but it might not always stay that way. You can say threads would NOT HAVE to be merged in to them, but I've seen this rule first hand get warped over the years so that anything vaguely on the topic of a general thread en up getting merged in and members told off for failing to post in the general thread. If damages the community and makes people afraid to post.
3) General threads and stifle discussion. It's hard to have more than one or two consecutive discussions in a general thread. You either find a discussion ends prematurely or is never given the chance to get off the ground. Better to allow different discussions to have their own threads, even if they fall under the same general heading.
4) Trying to prescribe too much to a forum will never work - you can't just make a load of threads or a load of forums for a community and get success. You need to give the community the ownership to organically create their discussions and feel like they are a positive contribution. Creating 20/50/more general threads and hoping the community use them is likely to fail, with many perhaps never getting any posts. It's too prescriptive and controlling.
5) General threads do not need their own section/category. I'll risk the wrath of the people who run Brickset, but I'd say we potentially have too many sections here already (I struggle to know the precise differences between some). Too many sections can split a community as people who browse by section will tend to stick to the sections they know and miss discussions in other areas. It can also make a forum look dead and un-interesting, so people wont stick around. General threads too, if they exist, should be in the most appropriate forum - which again makes general threads for threads on specific themes tough - should they be in Collecting, Building and Techniques, Buying? The themed general threads could contain discussion on all these things, so which is right? It could see one or more of these sections killed off depending on what happened.
Sorry about the length of that - it's longer than I intended. Hopefully it's got some valid points in it. But even though I have a lot of experience in forum management, I'm far from having all the answers and this is just my opinion, based on my experiences :D
Thank you for your post,
1) I just went back and had a quick look though the 'General threads' here on brickset and there are a lot of posts from people with less than a 100 total posts (more so than on other threads). My experience has been that many people start with a general thread that they have a passion for before moving onto use more of a forum, a gateway if you like for new members.
We should remember this thread is not representative of the general brickset user and is certainly not representative of people who use the main site but not the forum.
@Huw this could be a interesting one for you, to ask people on the main site that don't use the forum why this is the case?
2) Agree and this is a massive problem on EB but brickset is moderated very differently and I am sure even if you had an official general star wars thread there would still be lots of other threads about star wars.
Maybe the only fear people have about starting a new topic here on brickset is that they might get told off by another member followed by numerous likings of this post.
3) Anything major should get its own topic, general threads are a place to ask the small questions like this one in the star wars general thread which is coming up to 500 comments in 9 months:
"So, would #75134 considered either OT or canon? I like the minifigures but appreciate they don't actually appear in the OT..."
Should this question get its own thread or not be asked at all?
4) There are thousands of examples of website that do just this and they work as long has they have the number of active members to support the amount differentiation. (i.e. the more the spilt up a forum the more members you need to have all parts of the forum active).
Also the persisting idea here that everything should be organic doesn't combine well with the face that the forum was built and design with a purpose in mind, it was not organic. When a community grows and as time passes changes might be advantageous. The brickset forum wont grow legs and cruel out the sea, it will in time change or be left behind.
5) I agree in part, thinking about it I am not sure it has too many sections but the problem is that on the home page everything is shown which makes it look a bit messy and can be confusing for new members.
I think this is easier on the eye.
http://bricksetforum.com/categories
Although I would then like to be able to click on General, Shopping, Brickset, Other. This could then show you the five most recent threads in each of the sub-categories without showing you everything.
From the threads identifying sets or parts & helping other members, entering community competitions, finding bargains that would have gone unnoticed, learning about other aspects of the hobby that I would normally not look for, to seeing what's for sale in different countries, I like to have a browse through them all, and it all boils down to the reason why I like Brickset as a Forum in the first place - It is the only forum on the net (that I have used) where I could just as easily picture myself having a pint with the members whilst having these conversations. And I like that.
The point of a forum is the exchange of ideas, informatiom and varying viewpoints. You can have the best infrastructure, but if nobody wants to use it, you've missed the point!
Some topics are better independent of a 'general' thread, some topics are not.
This 'position' with regard to this forum pinpoints the resistance and criticism for your efforts. The people in the forum (the organic) and their thoughts, perceptions and experiences ARE the forum.
The forum is not pretty little topics all in a row. As soon as it turns into that, then I would anticipate that most of us would go elsewhere.
Don't take this the wrong way but based on your history with both Eurobricks and Brickset it seems like you have a very specific idea about what you want in a LEGO forum. I don't mean this in any aggressive or condescending way, have you considered starting your own forum?
I know that might sound flippant but I mean it as a genuine option, if you are not happy with the way things are done here or at EB and can't find another alternative then why not make your own solution rather than offering your preference on groups that have repeatedly shown strong opposition to your preferred style.
I like the natural flow of conversation here on Brickset and the light touch moderation, I disagree with you about the nature of organic conversation- I think you've taken the word organic too literal and missed the greater point about how conversation naturally progressed.
Like you I've had issues with EB, but frankly I've always preferred Brickset and see no reason to try to change anything with either site, they each serve a different style of the same content and there's easily room for both as they are.
@Shib you are going to make me break my rule about posting more than once a day in this threads by asking a reasonable question. I do try and learn from my mistakes and last time we had this discussion I answered every point right away and it lead to an unconducive atmosphere.
So if I started my own forum I would start by making a forum much like the brickset forum where everything could be seen on the homepage. This would be for the reasons @RogerKirk pointed out, that if you fragment a forum too much you will just be left with numerous empty threads where no one is posting. You have to have a user base first before you can create a great forum. If I ever got this user base then I would move closer to the EB model of having multiply sub forums. So why don't I do this because I don't have the user base, resources or time but I cant say it doesn't appeal to me.
Secondly and more importantly I don't dislike the brickset forum, it is just the way I am, I analyse everything and enjoy looking at how things can be better. The secret is that I only try and change the things I already have a passion for, the things I love. So maybe if I am trying to change something it could be seen as a complement rather than criticism.
A good example is the brickset database, the main site is my favourite site on the internet and @Huw has done an amazing job and created something he should be truly proud of. So how have I responded to this:
http://bricksetforum.com/discussion/20460/set-ratings#latest
http://bricksetforum.com/discussion/23338/a-set-or-not-a-set-that-is-the-question#latest
I have suggested changes, these are just new topics I stared but I have made a number of suggestions in other threads and in emails. These are just suggestions some might be good and some bad, even the good ones might not make the cut as @Huw only has so much time and he need to prioritise the things he thinks will make the greatest difference or even the thing he has the most interest in as its his time after all. But I am happy to help not just by making suggestions but by doing the leg work where I can. I wanted to help because I love the site so much and Huw is a great guy willing to humours my little ideas, I can only hope one day I can do something truly helpful for the site and him.
My suggestions are meant to be tailored appropriately (i.e. my suggestions for EB are different from BS because the sites are different).
I suggested that eurobricks had a sub-forum for Super Heroes like they do for Star Wars as the Licensed forum was bursting at the seams and Super Heroes was growing into a major line. EB now has a problem that the site was set up at a time when Space and Pirates were the major subthemes and minidolls were but a dream. The site hasn't updated and this is a common problem for forums which aren't commercial beasts, they have less reason to change and are more likely to be left to decline as they get more obsolete.
My suggestion for the brickset forum was meant to be similarly sympathetic to the currant rationale. It would be a simple edition of general threads in their own category leaving the rest of the site to work in the same way it has always done. It would be easy to implement and would not become dated as new themes could be added when they came along and old themes would fall down the list as they were no longer discussed.
The idea was to encourage people to join by having easy to understand topics that could be joined with little knowledge of the mechanics of the site. Why do I want more people on the forum, because I would like to talk about different things that don't currently have a big enough user base for here on the forum. Where can I find a discussion about 42055 Bucket Wheel Excavator, the largest technic set ever?
This suggestion is tailored to what exists at the moment, my dream suggestion would be to start a new forum that is integrated into the main site. This would encourage growth on both parts of the site and help increase profitability though the pre-existing avenues on the main site.
Now why have I persisted with this and brought it up again? (sorry for the long story, it has a point)
I recently saw the 'General Mixels Discussion Thread' which reminded me about this idea and so I made my little Photoshop and was about to email it to @Huw. I would except to get a nice reply saying thanks but no thanks and that would be that.
I then saw the "General"? thread and decided it might be fun to post my Photoshop in there as it was already made and had 'General' as the new category.
http://bricksetforum.com/discussion/23664/general#latest
So I posted "If I ruled the world (and it annoys me that I don't) this is what I would use it for." followed by my Photoshop.
I then deleted it out of fear of the response I would get (you cant delete so I just left ".").
I then got mad that I was afraid to post and I wanted to address it, so I stared this thread.
My "." post has got many likes and response like:
"^That's the best point you have made in awhile...and you got a "like". It's a win!!!"
"See, it's not hard to get likes :)"
Funny or unkind, I will let you decide.
Why do I bring this up, its not because I want to be a victim its because I want to challenge this culture and I will challenge it. I am not saying it is meant to be unkind but I am saying it can come across that way to the person involved.
I am and have been trying to help, for what I get wrong I am sorry.
Some of the things that have happened have been unpleasant.
But to @Huw I say a big thank you for putting up with me.
"... I would like to talk about different things that don't currently have a big enough user base for here on the forum. Where can I find a discussion about 42055 Bucket Wheel Excavator, the largest technic set ever?"
Are you saying there is no discussion of that particular set here? In that case why don't you just start one?
I've seen evidence of Technic fans here and, I think, plenty of people are looking to get into Technic at the moment thanks to the big sets Lego are releasing this year.
You probably think I'm being awkward or "unkind" but I genuinely am struggling to understand why you think people are supposedly too reticent to start a thread in one of the various existing categories (rather than in a newly created General category) on a subject or theme that is of interest to them?
i still think you are trying to push for something that sits in the middle of BS and EB in style, to me it's pointless petitioning either to change to be more like the other when you seem to be in a distinct minority that wants that.
you say if you started your own forum you wouldn't have enough users....does any website?
I'm not quite sure you're sorry. You have been told, what, dozens of times now, to just give it a rest, yet you're still chugging along. You continuing to push your agenda is "wrong," and if you're truly "sorry" about getting things "wrong," then you will stop.
You're not a victim, but you are confused. Just let things go, dive into discussions without tossing around narcissistic BS like "you made me break my one post per day rule," and I can tell you, all of this crap will be forgotten in a week...unless you decide to keep bringing it back up.