Approx how much do open sets lose value?

happyskunky

I realize that there are a lot of factors in value of sets. Is there a general % of unopened value a set gets if opened with box and instructions.

Sorry this was kind of hard to word properly but I think you get what I am asking.

CCC

There is no general rule, but somewhere between about 5-50%. It really depends on the set and its availability both new and used (and new but opened) and of course condition. Sets that are easy to find new tend not to fetch high prices if used.

MattsWhat

27%

Werewolf_poo

Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay...... So yeah 27.1%

MaffyD

26.9%

LuLego

They lose value?

People pay what they pay and it only takes a couple of keen ebayers to get in a bidding war!

im teaching my 6 year old daughter all about business... She sold some older cmf figures from her own collection and bought the Lego frozen castle. We were amazed by how much some went for. And although she is only 6, she is now trying to work out the future market...

chicken guy - don't buy!!!!
shark suit guy - buy a spare when you've got some pocket money from grandma!
unicorn girl - sell!!!

im also teaching her that lego lovers hate resellers!

MattsWhat

Then she would hate herself for selling CMFs, right?
I actually quite like resellers, they let me get sets I missed (and I don't use them often but I have no problem paying them for the service they provide, unlike a lot of people).  I don't like people that brag about how much they are selling the millions of sets they bought for - these people are arses but thankfully not too many of them around here.

LuLego

She doesn't like selling CMFs. And if she could keep them and also buy the latest sets, obviously she would. But Lego is expensive and she needs to understand that if you want that latest Elsa castle, you either need to save for a few months, wait for a birthday or Xmas, or sacrifice. The sacrifice being selling on the Lego she played with but no longer is interested in. Luckily, Lego holds its value well and she can fund her new sets by selling the old.

I wish I could afford all the new sets for her (and me!) as well as keep old CMFs but things aren't that simple and actually, you can't always have your cake and eat it.

we all wish we kept (and a few did) our childhood Lego. It's not about the value... But the nostalgia. 

As for resellers. I have no issue... Until I try to buy a discounted set and find the guy in front of me bought the last ten. I lined up outside smyths on their sale day only to see the guy in front of me (quite literally) buy three DC tumblers at their sale price of £130. I missed out to a reseller. But that's ok I missed it because I can buy it off him in the future for just a few % more than the rrp. I believe they now go for £220 upwards. 

Fireheart

^You could have got one yesterday on Smyths for £169.99.. Including delivery.

CCC

Lego lovers don't hate resellers. Anyone that sells lego is a reseller. There are various shades of resellers based on what they sell, new vs used, current vs retired, set vs parts. But all are resellers.

If you ever miss out on a normal retail set to a reseller, then it shows that you didn't really want the set that much as you waited until it went to clearance.

And yes, opened and used sets lose value compared to new and sealed ones.

catwrangler

MattsWhat said:

Then she would hate herself for selling CMFs, right?
I actually quite like resellers, they let me get sets I missed (and I don't use them often but I have no problem paying them for the service they provide, unlike a lot of people).  I don't like people that brag about how much they are selling the millions of sets they bought for - these people are arses but thankfully not too many of them around here.

Yeah, I think the atmosphere here tends to filter out the people who are more focused on the money and the bragging rights, and I'm glad of it. Sure, we discuss predicted values a lot, but the same people are also discussing sets they want badly or ones from their childhoods, and if anything I've seen a lot of members here frustrated when the reselling they started to fund sets they want has overtaken the fun of Lego. Love of the brick definitely comes first around here...

LuLego

Fireheart said:

^You could have got one yesterday on Smyths for £169.99.. Including delivery.

Which smyths is that? It hasn't been available online for some time. Website says only available for collection in store and, of course, there aren't any.

maniac

LuLego said:

Fireheart said:

^You could have got one yesterday on Smyths for £169.99.. Including delivery.

Which smyths is that? It hasn't been available online for some time. Website says only available for collection in store and, of course, there aren't any.

It was very briefly available online the other day as Fireheart said. Someone posted it on HUKD and it was gone in 30-40mins.

Werewolf_poo

LuLego said:

Fireheart said:

^You could have got one yesterday on Smyths for £169.99.. Including delivery.

Which smyths is that? It hasn't been available online for some time. Website says only available for collection in store and, of course, there aren't any.

It's a bit of a con. Think that's the general consensus. Every few weeks Smyths all of a sudden have "stock" of the tumbler, it gets put on HUKD really quickly for £10 over the rrp and they sell out within minutes. All at the same time driving huge amounts of traffic to their site and a lot more feet through their store doors. 

I I find it quite annoying but at the same time it's a pretty good business move. I find it more annoying though 

Fireheart

^ I was surprised to see them as well, it was for home delivery so not a click and collect. When I saw it I put one in the basket to check, and then tried to add another to see how many it let you have, but of course it only allows 1 per order. 
I didn't want it (as I don't collect this theme) so didn't then complete / pay for the order, but it was definitely there... The resellers must have got them all.. 

TigerMoth

CCC said:

If you ever miss out on a normal retail set to a reseller, then it shows that you didn't really want the set that much as you waited until it went to clearance.

Or that you couldn't afford it at the full price. Or that you simply couldn't afford it all until that time.

Not everybody has a permanently bottomless budget for sets.

Anyone that sells lego is a reseller.

Pedantically, that's true. However, must people regard a reseller as someone who buys to sell, as opposed to someone who simply sells something at a later date because they no longer want it, or want something else instead. The tax authorities take a similar view. Occasionally, I'll sell my car, but that doesn't make me a car dealer.

datsunrobbie

Personally,  I avoid the problem by purchasing used LEGO most of the time. By my guesstimation I have spent roughly 20% of MSRP for the sets I own, but I missed out on boxes, manuals, and some of the minifigures. There's also the issue of sorting it all, but that's my fault for buying faster than I sort.

While an opened set may lose resale value, an unopened set has minimal if any play value. We can all make guesses at what the next "hot" set will be, but they are only guesses.  Some people may be kicking themselves for opening #10179 back when it was new, others are quite happy having it built and on display.

There may be somebody with a couple hundred #7591s sealed and stored away, patiently waiting for the day they become the must-have set that sells for 2000% of MSRP. Won't we all feel silly if that day ever comes?

catwrangler

Oh. my. god. Construct-A-Zurgs are real??? :O 

This whole time I've been thinking they were an imaginary set, the most unlikeable, unpopular, unresellable set ever... and they exist. 

*swoons*

*lands on Lego*

*screams* 

Pitfall69

TigerMoth said:

CCC said:

If you ever miss out on a normal retail set to a reseller, then it shows that you didn't really want the set that much as you waited until it went to clearance.

Or that you couldn't afford it at the full price. Or that you simply couldn't afford it all until that time.

Not everybody has a permanently bottomless budget for sets.

Anyone that sells lego is a reseller.

Pedantically, that's true. However, must people regard a reseller as someone who buys to sell, as opposed to someone who simply sells something at a later date because they no longer want it, or want something else instead. The tax authorities take a similar view. Occasionally, I'll sell my car, but that doesn't make me a car dealer.

Let's say I bought 10 UCS Millennium Falcons with the intent to make one gigantic "MF", but I never got the chance to open the boxes because that thing called life happens. Are you telling me that if I no longer wanted the sets and sold them on Ebay for $45,000; the "tax man" wouldn't care because I no longer "wanted" them? 

Things are definitely different here in the US when it comes to reporting income. If one of the factors in determining whether you are a reseller is the "tax man", then you are definitely a reseller. It doesn't matter whether you sell 1 thing or 1,000; the US Government wants that tax money on that income. It obviously isn't that cut and dry, but that is the short of it. 

There are gray areas, but it doesn't matter if you sell Lego to buy more Lego, buy Lego and sell it later because you don't want it; you are still a reseller. 

Pitfall69

We can all agree to disagree here because governments operate differently from country to country as it pertains to income, taxes and what the definition of a business is. 

I definitely like these discussions though and we have had them in this forum before, but this thread is definitely not the thread and I would love to stay on topic....for once :)

Pitfall69

People open LEGO sets?

MattsWhat

LuLego said:

As for resellers. I have no issue... Until I try to buy a discounted set and find the guy in front of me bought the last ten. I lined up outside smyths on their sale day only to see the guy in front of me (quite literally) buy three DC tumblers at their sale price of £130. I missed out to a reseller. But that's ok I missed it because I can buy it off him in the future for just a few % more than the rrp. I believe they now go for £220 upwards. 

But the point is he was in front of you. He got there first and happened to want to buy 3. I don't understand why people feel like the person in front has to leave some. Would you have bought one if there had only been one left? What about the person behind you?
What you intend to do with it is irrelevant, you're entitled to buy as many as you want (or are available). Otherwise, there has to be a ranking of entitlement with people moving aside for anyone ranked higher. It probably looks something like:
Lowest of the low = resellers who buy multiples
Nearly as low = resellers who only buy one
Pretty damn low = adults who want minifigs and resell the rest
Pretty low = adults who like to keep it sealed
Low = adults who like to open but don't display for long
Average = adults who display for ages
High = little Johnny 
(in other words - how ridiculous, just be in the queue quicker next time) 

Yodalicious

That makes me a Low. And my three-year-old a High. Not sure where my six-month-old fits. He is "open or sealed, wants to eat everything."

MattsWhat

I think I'm a pretty low because I don't have much space. I'm going to be taking my 5yo with me more to get me a higher ranking in queues. 

datsunrobbie

Lower than the lowest are the scalpers, who don't even like LEGO but clear the shelves on Black Friday to resell on eBay

PeteM

MattsWhat said:

LuLego said:

As for resellers. I have no issue... Until I try to buy a discounted set and find the guy in front of me bought the last ten. I lined up outside smyths on their sale day only to see the guy in front of me (quite literally) buy three DC tumblers at their sale price of £130. I missed out to a reseller. But that's ok I missed it because I can buy it off him in the future for just a few % more than the rrp. I believe they now go for £220 upwards. 

But the point is he was in front of you. He got there first and happened to want to buy 3. I don't understand why people feel like the person in front has to leave some. Would you have bought one if there had only been one left? What about the person behind you?
What you intend to do with it is irrelevant, you're entitled to buy as many as you want (or are available). Otherwise, there has to be a ranking of entitlement with people moving aside for anyone ranked higher. ) 

No, there doesn't have to be a ranking or being the person who gets the last set in the shop. But if there are four copies of a set available for half price, I would rather four people had the opportunity to get one set each, than one person buy all four to resell at an inflated price to the other three later on. I'm aware that that's not how the world works, but simply saying "I was here first" is the moral argument of a five year old.

Mind you, it works ;)

TigerMoth

Pitfall69 said:

Let's say I bought 10 UCS Millennium Falcons with the intent to make one gigantic "MF", but I never got the chance to open the boxes because that thing called life happens. Are you telling me that if I no longer wanted the sets and sold them on Ebay for $45,000; the "tax man" wouldn't care because I no longer "wanted" them?

No - you'd be taxed. But that's mainly because of the example you picked. The value is too high. There's a per-item threshold as well as an annual one.

If you bought ten Brick Banks intending to build a much bigger one, then you'd have to argue the toss with HMRC. If it was a one-off occurrence, you might win; if you made a habit of it, you'd probably lose.

It doesn't matter whether you sell 1 thing or 1,000; the US Government wants that tax money on that income.

In the UK, HMRC aren't interested in the mundane day-to-day sales of personal items - unless they're expensive. Even then, there's an annual allowance. Sell a Rembrandt or your family jewels and they'd be very interested, but not in most other things. If I wanted to sell off that sealed Green Grocer everybody wanted to argue about a while ago, that ought to be fine and there would be no tax. If I made a habit of selling sets, HMRC are likely to argue I was running a business and would want their cut. That's why intent is important.

but it doesn't matter if you sell Lego to buy more Lego, buy Lego and sell it later because you don't want it; you are still a reseller. 

So, on that basis, I'm a car dealer and what I believe you guys call a realtor? But not a reseller.

what the definition of a business is.

There isn't one - that's why people end up trying to justify what they've done. In the end, it comes down to what Hector ordains.

Hector? A cartoon character, now retired, designed to make tax inspectors look less like some hideous creature from the deep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHTt1qgsswI

Briking

We have to leave items on the shelf??

So if the store only has 2 tins of kidney beans on the shelf when I'm planning to cook a chilly for the family, then I'm supposed to leave one in the shop??  Ok, please explain the logic!

If this has to do with little Timmy, then let the little **** eat something without kidney beans in it!

Renny

Didn't take long for this thread to spiral off topic :) Just throwing my 2 cents into the hat on the original topic. In most cases the difference between a sealed boxed set and a used one can be huge, especially for big sets like UCS or Modulars.

Take a look at Bricklink prices for the 10129 UCS Snowspeeder for example (I just built it again so it's on my mind). Average 6 month price for a new one is $1778.02 while the used ones are $888.63.  Those used prices also may not always include the instructions or box (instructions for the 10129 for example are $200 alone).

LuLego

Briking said:

We have to leave items on the shelf??

So if the store only has 2 tins of kidney beans on the shelf when I'm planning to cook a chilly for the family, then I'm supposed to leave one in the shop??  Ok, please explain the logic!

If this has to do with little Timmy, then let the little **** eat something without kidney beans in it!

Lego etiquette?

CCC

PeteM said:

MattsWhat said:

LuLego said:

As for resellers. I have no issue... Until I try to buy a discounted set and find the guy in front of me bought the last ten. I lined up outside smyths on their sale day only to see the guy in front of me (quite literally) buy three DC tumblers at their sale price of £130. I missed out to a reseller. But that's ok I missed it because I can buy it off him in the future for just a few % more than the rrp. I believe they now go for £220 upwards. 

But the point is he was in front of you. He got there first and happened to want to buy 3. I don't understand why people feel like the person in front has to leave some. Would you have bought one if there had only been one left? What about the person behind you?
What you intend to do with it is irrelevant, you're entitled to buy as many as you want (or are available). Otherwise, there has to be a ranking of entitlement with people moving aside for anyone ranked higher. ) 

No, there doesn't have to be a ranking or being the person who gets the last set in the shop. But if there are four copies of a set available for half price, I would rather four people had the opportunity to get one set each, than one person buy all four to resell at an inflated price to the other three later on. I'm aware that that's not how the world works, but simply saying "I was here first" is the moral argument of a five year old.

Mind you, it works ;)

What about what is best for the store? For them getting product out the door quickly is their goal. Better that those four sets go to one person, then the three upset people buy something else so their trip to the store and queueing time isn't wasted.

KnightOfNi

Lets simplify things... If a store was selling £50 notes for £25 would you buy just one or would you fill your pockets?

The ethical issue is the same, and I don't believe there are many people who could honestly say they would take only one.