Slimeiest thing that's happened to you on ebay

Pitfall69

My math is apparently fuzzy, but if an item is worthless and you want a large discount on a worthless item; is it worth even less? Worthless is an absolute. 

Maybe if you explained that you only have a 2 up and 2 down house, I might feel sorry for you and give you a discount ;)

Pitfall69

Jerry: You can’t “overdry”.

George: Why not?

Jerry: Same reason you can’t “overwet.” You see, once something is wet, it’s wet. Same thing with death. Like once you die, you’re dead, right? Let’s say you drop dead and I shoot you. You’re not gonna die again, you’re already dead. You can’t “overdie,” you can’t “overdry.”

If it is wortless...the "value" is 0 ;)

...and there yet another Brickset inside joke ;)

msanders

I had a very unpleasant experience once (well a few times but this one inparticular).

Sold item - buy it now. Value over £20, so shipped recorded. 2 weeks later, buyer contacts and says haven't received item. I usually assume it's arrived unless contacted. 
Look up tracking and says something about delivered to sorting office.
Contact buyer and say is there a reception or postal room (because they live in a block of flats). Buyer says no and that it's my responsibility to ensure delivery. I contact royal mail and they say it was signed for and gave proof. I show this to buyer who says they don't know who it is and gets rude saying they want the item or their money back. 
Do my own investigating and see the apartment block is managed by a company. I phone the company who say there is a postal room in that block of flats. I get the number for the posting room and call them. Their records show no parcel in their system that hasn't been collected.  They check the signed for and collected mail and indeed the parcel was collected by the occupants of the apartment (who they know and identified) the day after they filed a 'did not receive item' case through eBay.
I reported them to eBay who just closed the case (because I had proof of signed delivery). I sent an email to the buyer saying they are commuting fraud and I have never encountered something like this in my whole time on eBay. It was such a horrible experience.  Strangely, the buyer filed a case through PayPal not Ebay.  I wonder if they wanted to go undetected on eBay  (if they've done this sort of thing before).

SprinkleOtter

Pitfall69 said:

My math is apparently fuzzy, but if an item is worthless and you want a large discount on a worthless item; is it worth even less? Worthless is an absolute.

"Ten percent of nothing is—let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin’. Carry the nothin’…" ;)

SumoLego

Why isn't the term 'worthnothing', instead of 'worthless'?

Nonetheless, give me a PitfallCon figure for free!  I'll pay the shipping for such a worthless item.  Er... worthnothing item.

(Why don't they call it 'Roundtine'?)

legomental

msanders said:

I had a very unpleasant experience once (well a few times but this one inparticular).

Sold item - buy it now. Value over £20, so shipped recorded. 2 weeks later, buyer contacts and says haven't received item. I usually assume it's arrived unless contacted. 
Look up tracking and says something about delivered to sorting office.
Contact buyer and say is there a reception or postal room (because they live in a block of flats). Buyer says no and that it's my responsibility to ensure delivery. I contact royal mail and they say it was signed for and gave proof. I show this to buyer who says they don't know who it is and gets rude saying they want the item or their money back. 
Do my own investigating and see the apartment block is managed by a company. I phone the company who say there is a postal room in that block of flats. I get the number for the posting room and call them. Their records show no parcel in their system that hasn't been collected.  They check the signed for and collected mail and indeed the parcel was collected by the occupants of the apartment (who they know and identified) the day after they filed a 'did not receive item' case through eBay.
I reported them to eBay who just closed the case (because I had proof of signed delivery). I sent an email to the buyer saying they are commuting fraud and I have never encountered something like this in my whole time on eBay. It was such a horrible experience.  Strangely, the buyer filed a case through PayPal not Ebay.  I wonder if they wanted to go undetected on eBay  (if they've done this sort of thing before).

This is really common on ebay. they often wait until the day before the 30 day complaint period runs out on paypal to file a complaint.

A friend sells a lot on ebay via his shop. He sold some beauty related advent calenders (think they have mini facial creams and things in them), £25 a piece x2 in november. They went before Christmas and registered post. arrived 2nd December and were signed for. Just before the 30 day period ran out the buyer filed a non delivery complaint.

now don't you think for advent calenders they would have been quicker to complain? presumably they wanted them for December? no communication on ebay, just a paypal case same as yourself.

Its a well known scam. They hope you will have disposed of the tracking details by the time they file a case. If you send anything non registered on ebay then good luck because there are now so many scammers on there now its a minefield.

The other scam is a selling one and what they do is post something tiny registered post to the buyer and not the actual (high price) item they have paid for. The buyer obviously signs for it and doesn't know who its from etc. sometimes its just a big box with some odd books or something in. then when the buyer complains that the item hasn't arrived the scamming seller produces this 'proof of delivery' and paypal close the case in their favour. they may not even have the item to sell. I no longer buy anything of high value from there unless I can collect in person and I only sell small value items and send registered post

Ebay and paypal fees are a scam in their own right.

Jackad7

legomental said:

msanders said:

I had a very unpleasant experience once (well a few times but this one inparticular).

Sold item - buy it now. Value over £20, so shipped recorded. 2 weeks later, buyer contacts and says haven't received item. I usually assume it's arrived unless contacted. 
Look up tracking and says something about delivered to sorting office.
Contact buyer and say is there a reception or postal room (because they live in a block of flats). Buyer says no and that it's my responsibility to ensure delivery. I contact royal mail and they say it was signed for and gave proof. I show this to buyer who says they don't know who it is and gets rude saying they want the item or their money back. 
Do my own investigating and see the apartment block is managed by a company. I phone the company who say there is a postal room in that block of flats. I get the number for the posting room and call them. Their records show no parcel in their system that hasn't been collected.  They check the signed for and collected mail and indeed the parcel was collected by the occupants of the apartment (who they know and identified) the day after they filed a 'did not receive item' case through eBay.
I reported them to eBay who just closed the case (because I had proof of signed delivery). I sent an email to the buyer saying they are commuting fraud and I have never encountered something like this in my whole time on eBay. It was such a horrible experience.  Strangely, the buyer filed a case through PayPal not Ebay.  I wonder if they wanted to go undetected on eBay  (if they've done this sort of thing before).

This is really common on ebay. they often wait until the day before the 30 day complaint period runs out on paypal to file a complaint.

A friend sells a lot on ebay via his shop. He sold some beauty related advent calenders (think they have mini facial creams and things in them), £25 a piece x2 in november. They went before Christmas and registered post. arrived 2nd December and were signed for. Just before the 30 day period ran out the buyer filed a non delivery complaint.

now don't you think for advent calenders they would have been quicker to complain? presumably they wanted them for December? no communication on ebay, just a paypal case same as yourself.

Its a well known scam. They hope you will have disposed of the tracking details by the time they file a case. If you send anything non registered on ebay then good luck because there are now so many scammers on there now its a minefield.

The other scam is a selling one and what they do is post something tiny registered post to the buyer and not the actual (high price) item they have paid for. The buyer obviously signs for it and doesn't know who its from etc. sometimes its just a big box with some odd books or something in. then when the buyer complains that the item hasn't arrived the scamming seller produces this 'proof of delivery' and paypal close the case in their favour. they may not even have the item to sell. I no longer buy anything of high value from there unless I can collect in person and I only sell small value items and send registered post

Ebay and paypal fees are a scam in their own right.

How would you get around the second one as a buyer? Open it before you sign, if that's even a thing? Or videotape you oowning it? 

Aleydita

You'd file a "significantly not as described" claim as opposed to an "item not received" claim. PayPal usually find in buyer's favour with the former, and in the seller's favour with the latter providing there's proof of delivery of at least something.

KingAlanI

SumoLego said:

^ The Daily Show said Lego was more valuable than gold.  It can't just be plastic?!?

Say it ain't so!

That clip said it could be a better investment than gold, not that particular pieces were worth more. http://bricksetforum.com/discussion/22564/lego-worth-more-than-gold-the-daily-show

brumey

gawd . i hate this!   got scammed so much in tf2/steam .
i m even dat cautious now, that i check my bricklink sells on paypal every freakin day!
hate getting "chargeback". its not happened to me with lego so far.

only earbuds, max heads, keys, unusuals!

CCC

legomental said:

msanders said:

I had a very unpleasant experience once (well a few times but this one inparticular).

Sold item - buy it now. Value over £20, so shipped recorded. 2 weeks later, buyer contacts and says haven't received item. I usually assume it's arrived unless contacted. 
Look up tracking and says something about delivered to sorting office.
Contact buyer and say is there a reception or postal room (because they live in a block of flats). Buyer says no and that it's my responsibility to ensure delivery. I contact royal mail and they say it was signed for and gave proof. I show this to buyer who says they don't know who it is and gets rude saying they want the item or their money back. 
Do my own investigating and see the apartment block is managed by a company. I phone the company who say there is a postal room in that block of flats. I get the number for the posting room and call them. Their records show no parcel in their system that hasn't been collected.  They check the signed for and collected mail and indeed the parcel was collected by the occupants of the apartment (who they know and identified) the day after they filed a 'did not receive item' case through eBay.
I reported them to eBay who just closed the case (because I had proof of signed delivery). I sent an email to the buyer saying they are commuting fraud and I have never encountered something like this in my whole time on eBay. It was such a horrible experience.  Strangely, the buyer filed a case through PayPal not Ebay.  I wonder if they wanted to go undetected on eBay  (if they've done this sort of thing before).

This is really common on ebay. they often wait until the day before the 30 day complaint period runs out on paypal to file a complaint.

A friend sells a lot on ebay via his shop. He sold some beauty related advent calenders (think they have mini facial creams and things in them), £25 a piece x2 in november. They went before Christmas and registered post. arrived 2nd December and were signed for. Just before the 30 day period ran out the buyer filed a non delivery complaint.

now don't you think for advent calenders they would have been quicker to complain? presumably they wanted them for December? no communication on ebay, just a paypal case same as yourself.

Its a well known scam. They hope you will have disposed of the tracking details by the time they file a case. If you send anything non registered on ebay then good luck because there are now so many scammers on there now its a minefield.

The other scam is a selling one and what they do is post something tiny registered post to the buyer and not the actual (high price) item they have paid for. The buyer obviously signs for it and doesn't know who its from etc. sometimes its just a big box with some odd books or something in. then when the buyer complains that the item hasn't arrived the scamming seller produces this 'proof of delivery' and paypal close the case in their favour. they may not even have the item to sell. I no longer buy anything of high value from there unless I can collect in person and I only sell small value items and send registered post

Ebay and paypal fees are a scam in their own right.

Why are eBay and PayPal fees a scam? You choose to use a service with advertised fees, then you pay the fees. They are not so bad, when you consider the costs at selling at a live auction and the number if potential buyers that see your items. Similarly for paypal, fees for setting up your own credit card processing are huge and you have to deal securely with customer's card data. Much cheaper to let PayPal deal with it.

TigerMoth

CCC said:

Why are eBay and PayPal fees a scam?

Because it's somebody else making money at your expense. The same as garage charges and washing-machine repair call-out.

The fact that most people want to earn a reasonable income often gets forgotten when they have to pay someone else.

MattsWhat

^parking charges, they're the worst.  It's my car for goodness sake!

SumoLego

^^ At my expense whilst providing a service that I am willing to pay for (grudgingly).

Sometimes I don't get the point of griping about these type of things.  If you don't like it, pick a different service.

Pitfall69

Are we talking about parking garages? I must have missed something. 

goshe7

CCC said:

Why are eBay and PayPal fees a scam? You choose to use a service with advertised fees, then you pay the fees. They are not so bad, when you consider the costs at selling at a live auction and the number if potential buyers that see your items. Similarly for paypal, fees for setting up your own credit card processing are huge and you have to deal securely with customer's card data. Much cheaper to let PayPal deal with it.

The percentage-based approach to fees redistributes the cost of business among the entire consumer base.  Any time that costs are redistributed, there are people that end up paying more (or less) for equivalent service.  Many of the people that pay more without consuming a proportionate amount of the resources will feel they are bearing an undue burden, and are therefore being scammed.  

But as you say, this is how those services choose to distribute the costs to their users.  If you feel you are being "scammed" than choose not to use them.  

Pitfall69

"Many of the people that pay more without consuming a proportionate amount of the resources will feel they are bearing an undue burden, and are therefore being scammed."

You just described me when I do my taxes every year.

DoubleD

I will say ebay fees suck but they have maintenance for websites and servers and I am sure their are a couple people working there. They are not hidding their fees you know up front. But it does suck.

Pitfall69

Nobody is forcing anyone to sell their LEGO and other crap on Ebay. There are other places you can use that are free; like Craigslist and Brickset. My wife uses Facebook to sell stuff she doesn't want. I even used Facebook to sell some scratched and damaged LEGO pieces that otherwise wouldn't sell. A mom just wanted cheap LEGO. 

TheLoneTensor

Reasonable fees are acceptable, but I've never been a fan of ebay charging a fee against your shipping costs.

cheshirecat

^^^ They provide the biggest audience for your sales - that's what you're paying for. Its a bit annoying to lose money of course but more often than not completely worth it. And as CCC pointed out, completely in line with 'real life' auction fees, in fact noticeably better - you don't pay to place an item for sale (most of the time now), or to have photos of it, if it doesn't sell you don't have to pay a %age of the reserve prices (I think) and the sold item fees are at the better end of those from auction houses (10-15% is normal in the UK). 

On top of that your buyers don't have to worry about buyer premiums (normally another 15-20% plus VAT) and nor do they have to pay for the pleasure of seeing your item in a catalogue (less of an issue now). All money that allows the buyer to bid a bit higher. 

And, you get your money immediately rather than having to wait 21 days or so, which again would be normal  in the UK.




^ Which they had to do because people were routinely upping their shipping costs to avoid paying fees on the sale price.

MattsWhat

^they had to do something to stop the trend of 99 cent items with $100 postage.
The fees are laid out, and stuff sells faster than on gumtree in the UK.  You get what you pay for (although the %s do seem high).
They do charge a lot less up front than when the site first started too.

TheLoneTensor

cheshirecat said:

^ Which they had to do because people were routinely upping their shipping costs to avoid paying fees on the sale price.

Saying they had to is giving them too much credit.  Assuming the controls they implemented to curb that didn't work (weeding out those overcharging, adding in the star ratings, etc.), if I'm paying exact shipping (something they have knowledge of if I use their service), I shouldn't be penalized with another fee.  Because they couldn't control a minority of bad apples, they reduced everyone's bottom line.

MattsWhat

^it wasn't a few bad apples though, it was the case for many, if not the majority, of items.  Don't forget that having the item cheap also made it look like a better deal and put you at the top of 'by price' searches.  There was a lot of reason to do it, so a lot of people did.  Now, a lot of auctions actually just put free postage (as it makes no difference) which make it much friendlier for buyers.
It is also worth point out that the selling price of items is higher on ebay than other sites, more possible customers means more bids/more purchases.  If I can sell my item for 10% more than I could elsewhere, which in many cases can be realised, then the service is free to you as a seller anyway.
The sting comes when paypal take their bit (the same company charging you twice when you can't effectively use one without the other seems a bit much) but that's just the way it is.  I don't sell on ebay because I don't like it compared to bricklink/brickowl.  But I'm not going to moan about them, they are what they are and they don't hide it.

BuriedinBricks

The percentage of shipping is probably the biggest thing that bugs me about fees. I know why they do it, but I agree it should not kick in when you are setting rates using their shipping calculator.

cheshirecat

^Isn't it the case that if you're using their service you're probably saving almost as much on shipping as the fee anyway?? 

But such is life - its why we have to pay for a police force with our taxes, and a judicial service, prison service. Part of the cost of our home insurance, car insurance etc etc. 

Faced with the same situation I would have done the same - it was an efficient, simple and elegant solution. Although as you say not perfect, especially now that Ebay have the shipping cost services they offer.

TheLoneTensor

Talking about paying for police, etc, that's a little over the top - this isn't taxes for a social service.  By that argument, you are saying I should be paying ebay fees against everything I pay in the course of doing business with them, like insurance, packing materials, storage fees, gas used, etc.

Again, I consider it unfair if ebay knows what I should be charging for shipping (they do) and what I actually charge for shipping (they do), and yet when they match up, I still get dinged.

SumoLego

^ Most folks think they are clever and over-charge for shipping to try and avoid the transactional feea.  Thus eBay is going to hedge against that frequently repeated scenario.

From a consumer standpoint, if I am willing to pay $2.00 for an item plus $98.00 for shipping and the seller only has to pay the eBay sale fee on $2.00, that circumvents eBay's service.

TheLoneTensor

That's not the scenario I painted though.  For your scenario yeah, if I charge $98 for shipping, and ebay sees (because I use their shipping service) that it really only cost me $5 to ship it, it's totally kosher for them to ding for fees on the $93 difference, because that's obvious circumvention.

Dawn

Would be so easy for eBay to "refund" the fees from postage paid using their service. That would also make it better when selling items with "free shipping".

One can dream :)

cheshirecat

@TheLoneTensor  Nope, it was relating to the point that often in life we as a group have to pay more because a few bad apples spoil it for everyone - that's life and we just have to suck it up. 

MattsWhat

^^^but then they would have to employ loads of people to check every auction. Or maybe program a computer to check.  But sometimes you would get stung by that because it didn't know the weight of your object etc. anyway.
Not to mention the calculator they give you relies on people being honest and declaring the actual weight/insurance option they will use.  I could quite easily claim that it weighed 100kg and insured for £5000 just so the postage is high, then lower the price of my item accordingly and save on fees.  People will go to great lengths to avoid the ebay fees, all at the expense of the buyer.  As a buyer on ebay, I have to say that the solution they use is effective and makes my life easier, as a consequence I buy stuff there more often.  This in turn is good for the sellers.
I added this then realised you weren't really slamming ebay anyway (but left it in because I spent all that time typing).
Don't forget that ebay also offer buyer protection, which for every scammer gives plenty of people the piece of mind to buy stuff on the site.  With all the good transactions, which is the majority by far, they are giving the buyer confidence in some random person on the street.  I wouldn't just go to any old website and drop £100 on a Lego set from someone I had no idea about, but I would on Ebay (sort of).  This costs them a lot of resources to offer and is a huge bonus to the sellers (despite the fact that they moan about it above).  There are a lot of scam sellers on ebay that buyers are protected from.

madforLEGO

TheLoneTensor said:

Reasonable fees are acceptable, but I've never been a fan of ebay charging a fee against your shipping costs.

IMO eBay did that because they are lazy, pure and simple. They did not want to listen to, or follow up on, the reports of sellers asking for over the top shipping fees ( which really was all to circumvent eBay's fees).

However, like @CCC says you are getting your value for most of the fees, except for charging a fee for shipping IMO.

cheshirecat

Whilst I still think it was an elegant solution to the problem, it would make sense and be equally elegant for them to now say (given ebay has evolved since the fees on shipping were added) that if you pay/organise your shipping through ebay that you don't incur fees on your shipping. That would be a simple, likely fool proof way of removing fees on shipping for those that desperately want to. As pointed out anything wider than that would be hard to manage and harder to enforce. 

Of course they may already do this?

SumoLego

TheLoneTensor said:

That's not the scenario I painted though.  For your scenario yeah, if I charge $98 for shipping, and ebay sees (because I use their shipping service) that it really only cost me $5 to ship it, it's totally kosher for them to ding for fees on the $93 difference, because that's obvious circumvention.

They ought to be able to accommodate that scenario if the shipping is regulated through eBay.  But that's ultimately their choice to coordinate credits for related services.

I think they're covering the potential lost revenue from non-eBay coordinated shipping.  It's a broad stroke, but protects their bottom line...

TheLoneTensor

"Ought to" is not really in ebay's vocabulary when it comes to their relationship with sellers.  Currently, the best case is that you get a tax deduction on the fees.

SumoLego

^ This is true.  

There 'ought to' be a lot of simple things that could make our lives on eBay and elsewhere much nicer.

monkyby87

I only ever Buy It Now and try not to sell.  It can be such a hassle trying to sell something that after all of the fees it's just not worth it to me. 

Pitfall69

^Ebay periodically offers disounts on seller fees. During the holidays I got $5 max fees on anything sold during a 2 week time period. All you had to do is accept the offer and list within the time period and even if you item sold after the offer ended, you still got the deal. Roght now I am getting 30% off Ebay fees. The offer ends tomorrow.

So, the question is: What reasons would make it NOT worth it to sell on Ebay? For me, as long as I am not losing money after everything is all said and done is fine. Sometimes I just want to get rid of items I don't want anymore that are taking up space.

legomental

TheLoneTensor said:

Reasonable fees are acceptable, but I've never been a fan of ebay charging a fee against your shipping costs.

This is exactly why I feel the fees are unfair. Why should there be fees on shipping? Unless those shipping fees are unreasonable of course which is a different matter. 

And they used to insist you offered paypal first lin incurring more fees

I do choose not to use them mostly for those saying if you don't like the fees don't use. There are too many scams and hassles on ebay for me. Tend to use gumtree and preloved which to date have proved safer . 

legomental

TigerMoth said:

CCC said:

Why are eBay and PayPal fees a scam?

Because it's somebody else making money at your expense. The same as garage charges and washing-machine repair call-out.

The fact that most people want to earn a reasonable income often gets forgotten when they have to pay someone else.

Slightly abrasive comment. You make the assumption I am someone who doesn't want to pay their way in life. Not at all. I happily paid the garage 600 today for a days work ( and that was labour only I provided the parts) because they did a job I couldn't do and they did it well. That's certainly more than I earned today or even this week but I'm grateful for the working truck at the end of the day.

However when I pay ebay I also pay them tax for shipping which I am actually paying Royal Mail to provide so they are charging for something they don't actually do. That is not reasonable income and why I consider their fees unfair. There are easy ways around this as others have alluded to above.

In simple terms if I do a job I expect to be paid fairly for it if I have worked hard and done a good job. I don't expect to be paid for the man next to men's work too. 

TigerMoth

legomental said:

Slightly abrasive comment. You make the assumption I am someone who doesn't want to pay their way in life.

I made absolute no reference to you. Or anybody. Or make any assumptions about you, or anybody. Nor did I reference any post you made.

SumoLego

^  I think that's abrasive.  I'm feeling some chaffing.

TigerMoth

So buy some new underpants.

SumoLego

^ I'll just turn them inside out.  Again.

dougts

cheshirecat said:

Whilst I still think it was an elegant solution to the problem, it would make sense and be equally elegant for them to now say (given ebay has evolved since the fees on shipping were added) that if you pay/organise your shipping through ebay that you don't incur fees on your shipping. That would be a simple, likely fool proof way of removing fees on shipping for those that desperately want to. As pointed out anything wider than that would be hard to manage and harder to enforce. 

Of course they may already do this?

this would make sense, but they are actually vested in NOT to do this, because they are trying to push all sellers to the "free shipping" model, which really just means shipping is built into the price and they can collect fees on the full ride.

goshe7

^ And buyers want free shipping.  Ebay at least believes they will sell more with more things listed as free shipping.   The hard logic of total out of pocket cost isn't as psychologically persuasive.  That is why you see everyone following amazon's lead on offering free shipping on qualified purchases.  

TigerMoth

SumoLego said:

^ I'll just turn them inside out.  Again.

Crusty! Eek!

I know it's now Lent, but they make a hair shirt sound tame.

mountebank

Pitfall69 said:

So, the question is: What reasons would make it NOT worth it to sell on Ebay? For me, as long as I am not losing money after everything is all said and done is fine. Sometimes I just want to get rid of items I don't want anymore that are taking up space.

Two linked things. ebay pushes further along the buyer can do no wrong route and more dodgy buyers latch on to the many dodges available to get free items off the Internet. If you have a bad run and get ripped off by 5% of your buyers it does give you pause for thought.

In addition to the profit, the aggravation factor is a considerable one for me.

koshka

After my early contribution on the used breast pump I've just received my worst ever Lego purchase on ebay. Advert was for 8893 Lava Chamber Gate. The box is certainly for that but everything inside is for a Mega Bloks set that bears no relation to the Lego set. Seller has a perfect record from a feedback score of over 2000 so I can only assume that he never looked inside the box or knows nothing about Lego. The day has been saved by the receipt of two other large sets which are in used but near perfect condition.