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General DC Discussion

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  • BrickByBrickBrickByBrick Massachusetts, USAMember Posts: 587
    edited December 2018
    ^^ yes, the only thing I liked in Wonder woman was Steve Trevor. His one speech to Diana towards the end after Ares dies is the only scene from the movie I really liked. I think it's the best DCEU movie, but it's probably on par with some of the worst MCU movies... I just found WW very mediocre overall
    SumoLegogmonkey76
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    I don't have a problem with movies being dark - the problem is that they're bad.  Like Transformers bad with internally inconsistent, unintelligble nonsense strewn up on the screen.

    The Nolan Batman Trilogy is much heavier than any Marvel movie.  (And markedly better than any Marvel movie.)

    I happen to find it amusing that WW and Black Panther are regarded as groundbreaking, but neither are particularly good.
    gmonkey76stluxMynattReesesPieceswardmJ0rgensonatine01
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    I suppose I've a bit of a bias (I'm a DC fanboy to the core), but I much prefer the DC films to most of the MCU. Outside of the Captain America films and the first two Avengers films I have no use for most of it. DC does, though, lend itself better to film interpretation, being that it is a fractured multiverse wherein any and all portrayals of a character are valid. Marvel has long been a static universe, where there is but one true realization of thier characters (most of whom the MCU has done a piss poor job of representing. GotG, for example, are absolute abominations on the source material). I can't really get past the violent abuse of characters I know and love to even begin to appreciate the 'witty' humor that defines these films. They're probably great popcorn flicks for families with young children, but they're painful comic book adaptations. 

    Of the DC films, only BvS and SS really stand out as problematic. BvS is lacking largely because it expected the viewer to be familiar with DC characters and lore, and the nature of DC's fractured multiverse. It was rapid firing all sorts of concepts and imagery that just confounded the average viewer, and added little to the film itself. That, and it completely failed to set up and resolve conflict between Bruce and Kal. The center of the film fell completely flat, and the "Martha" memes were well earned. The final fight with Doomsday was pure magic for me though. It was easily my favorite cinematic moment that year, seeing Superman and Wonder Woman on screen together. I don't begrudge the haters though, as it's a deeply flawed film. 

    Suicide Squad... I just have no excuse for. It was pretty bad from start to finish. Outside of seeing personal favorites Waller (who was perfect!) and Katana up on the big screen, there wasn't much to like here. 

    MoS, WW, and JL were all fine films though. Barring the aforementioned Cap films and the first two Avengers films, they're all leaps and bounds above than anything the MCU has thrown up on the screen. 




  • brianoblivionbrianoblivion NYCMember Posts: 71
    Does Watchmen count as part of the overall DC universe? 
  • andywilsonandywilson UKMember Posts: 57
    Ask Alan Moore. :)
    hoyatablesToc13
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    klinton said:
    I suppose I've a bit of a bias (I'm a DC fanboy to the core), but I much prefer the DC films to most of the MCU. Outside of the Captain America films and the first two Avengers films I have no use for most of it. DC does, though, lend itself better to film interpretation, being that it is a fractured multiverse wherein any and all portrayals of a character are valid. Marvel has long been a static universe, where there is but one true realization of thier characters (most of whom the MCU has done a piss poor job of representing. GotG, for example, are absolute abominations on the source material). I can't really get past the violent abuse of characters I know and love to even begin to appreciate the 'witty' humor that defines these films. They're probably great popcorn flicks for families with young children, but they're painful comic book adaptations. 

    Of the DC films, only BvS and SS really stand out as problematic. BvS is lacking largely because it expected the viewer to be familiar with DC characters and lore, and the nature of DC's fractured multiverse. It was rapid firing all sorts of concepts and imagery that just confounded the average viewer, and added little to the film itself. That, and it completely failed to set up and resolve conflict between Bruce and Kal. The center of the film fell completely flat, and the "Martha" memes were well earned. The final fight with Doomsday was pure magic for me though. It was easily my favorite cinematic moment that year, seeing Superman and Wonder Woman on screen together. I don't begrudge the haters though, as it's a deeply flawed film. 

    Suicide Squad... I just have no excuse for. It was pretty bad from start to finish. Outside of seeing personal favorites Waller (who was perfect!) and Katana up on the big screen, there wasn't much to like here. 

    MoS, WW, and JL were all fine films though. Barring the aforementioned Cap films and the first two Avengers films, they're all leaps and bounds above than anything the MCU has thrown up on the screen. 




    I kind of agree with you, except on the last paragraph... JL is pure trash. I'm still waiting for a sort of Snyder cut, even if it doesn't properly finish the Superman arc (since it won't be complete). It can't be worse than the Whedon version.
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    I also get the impression that Warner Bros. completely forced the team-up movie without the buildup in an effort to replicate the success of the Avengers.  Avengers was the result of four years of buildup establishing the individual parts of the team.

    With respect to character loyalty - you are 100% correct in that MCU characters reflect what fits into the movie narrative and not their source material.  But I think that also highlights why the MCU is wildly successful and why the DCEU is in shambles.

    And JL is unwatchable.  There is no version of that debacle is watchable, makes any sense, or compels me to understand the motivation of the anatagonist and half of the protagonists.  I really can't get past how much of a hack-job they did with Kal.
    gmonkey76FowlerBricksstluxpharmjodRedbullgivesuwind
  • sonsofscevasonsofsceva 1904 World's FairMember Posts: 537
    ^
    SumoLego said:
    And JL is unwatchable.  There is no version of that debacle is watchable, makes any sense, or compels me to understand the motivation of the antagonist and half of the protagonists.  I really can't get past how much of a hack-job they did with Kal.

    And that is too bad, because Cavill had a good Superman in him, if he had a better line across all those movies.
    SumoLego
  • UmandraugUmandraug Doomstadt, LatveriaMember Posts: 69
    I would argue if they had one of the two directors do the entire film, instead of a piecemeal Snyder/Whedon reshot mess, it would have been watchable. I don’t really want the DCEU to go Whedon-y, but I’d rather have that than an indecisive tone.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    I think they missed the archetype of each of the characters.  (Except perhaps the Flash.  And maybe Aquaman - we'll soon see.)  And there isn't a 'plain' human for the audience to identify with (Hawkeye; Black Widow).

    They got most of Kal correct.  He's pretty close to parts of Captain America and Thor.  Diana is pretty good as the other parts of Thor, Black Widow and Captain America.

    Bruce is some version or Nick Fury and Tony Stark, but their usefulness is bumbled.

    Cyborg does nothing for the story.  At all.  

    Nobody could have saved these films - the core stroytelling was beyond repair.  I'm kinda hoping when the Marvel juggernaut wanes, a servicable DCEU can rise from mediocrity.  I don't need 15 Christopher Nolan films, I just want some coherent stories with fun characters.
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,090
    I’m more of a DC comics fan, but more of a Marvel film fan. Sumo is right that the archetype of the characters has been missed but honestly I’d be harsher.

     Superman is way too dark and gritty,his whole thing is meant to be about always being good and inspiring confidence in people, a crisis of conscience is fine but it should be a blip in the story not the whole point of it.

    Batman should be 100% against killing and in particular the use of guns to kill. Look at th body count in BvS, it’s insane. Also they obviously re-wrote Bruce Wayne to be more like Tony Stark in Justice League.

    Wonder Woman is not too bad a representation of the character, although it will always vary a little based on which version of the character you’re used to. The Wonder Woman film suffers typical ott slow mo, if that was all played at normal speed the film would have much better pacing.

    Aquaman they kinda set up the whole conflicted personality thing, but I think they were too conscious of trying to make him cool as he’s typically the butt of most comic book jokes.

    The Flash could be a good telling of a young Barry Allen, but given that such a telling already exists with the Arrowverse version as well it’s hardly a great selling point.

    Cyborg I don’t think they really had any great passion for, so he’s reduced to little more than a side kick.


    Lex Luthor came across far more like the Joker than Lex.

    The Joker was a mess of different ideas, which is basically the same for the whole Suicide Squad film, they were clearly trying to make Guardians of the Galaxy meets Deadpool and it did not work. Will Smith as Deadshot was about the only salvageable thing from that train wreck and only because they played to the side of the character that Will Smith is proven to be able to play, the parent fighting for their child.


    I just want them to do Flashpoint to reset the cinematic universe, then they can cherry pick out the salvageable parts and start fresh (preferably without Snyder involved)


    SumoLegosonsofscevabandit778
  • sonsofscevasonsofsceva 1904 World's FairMember Posts: 537
    Cyborg was the least well utilized character. Most versions of Cyborg are a bombastic character vs. down and dour. The "booyah" in the movie might have been the most understated interjection in cinema history, when compared to any animated version of the character. I kept waiting for the arc turn for him to embrace the machine and go into the verve of joy that Cyborg is known for, but that never happened. A missed opportunity.

    Flashpoint, though...they haven't earned it yet. There isn't even enough of a DC-CU upon which to create an alternate reality for comparison.
  • ReesesPiecesReesesPieces Member Posts: 760
    I'm worried that they are going to ruin Flashpoint and waste it like Fox did with Dark Phoenix (even tho they are taking another shot at it).
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    I'm hoping Marvel Studios takes novel approach and after this round of Phase 4 sequels (BP2, CM2, Spider-Man 2 & 3, GotG3) to 'retire' the Avengers Universe and re-introduce the former Fox Marvel properties in some sort of alternative universe and then do 2x of those movies a year for a decade.

    Although, they are real smart over there at Disney, so perhaps they could retcon some mutants in there.  Or merge universes.  But I fear a George Costanza 'worlds colliding' problem that would just ruin everything.

    I don't want Independent George to cease to exist if Relationship George takes over....

    Anyway, this is the DC thread.  So, nevermind.  I think Cavill was perfectly cast, but the Hollywoodness of conventional comic book movies really undermined the essence of the character.  And he died.

    And I totally agree with the point above about Batman also being out-of-character in callously pro-firearms approach.  It baffles me why they didn't just stick with Bale's version of Batman.  It doesn't matter who the actor is - just to a WWCBB do?
    Bumblepants
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    Shib said:
    Also they obviously re-wrote Bruce Wayne to be more like Tony Stark in Justice League.
    If that was their goal, they did a terrible job.  I think it is safe to say that an audience identifies with Tony Stark.  He's just a 'man in a can'.  This version of Batman is quite the opposite.  It's more of a 'I'm in the cowl, so do what I say.'  They took the humorless outlook of Captain America, and the fatalism of Nick Fury.  (And ejected sarcasm and the 'do the right thing' attitude.)

    It's just a total disjointed mess.
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 185
    @SumoLego I wish there was a Seinfeld thread on here. Jerry's apartment is one of my top dream sets. The apartment in the new modular looks a little bit like it, which I'm wondering wether is intentional, or just me laying too much into it.
    SumoLego
  • DougTemplarDougTemplar Edinburgh, ScotlandMember Posts: 528
    Has anyone else seen the extended safety video for Turkish Airlines featuring Batman directing the LEGO Movie 2 cast? There is a part with Wonder Woman putting on a mask where someone holds up a instruction card with Wonder Woman Earth 2 daughter, Lyta Trevor (Lyta Hall) in her Fury costume.

    Has LEGO produced a Fury figure? Is this a hint to Wonder Woman 2 sets ?
  • DougTemplarDougTemplar Edinburgh, ScotlandMember Posts: 528
    edited February 16
    Here is the Screen Shot

  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    https://www.brothers-brick.com/2019/03/29/lego-reveals-six-new-sets-to-celebrate-80-years-of-batman-including-classic-vehicles-villains-and-shazam-news/#more-175147

    I freaking love that Batmobile! I'm a bit miffed that they stuck Catwoman in the ridiculous Batcave set though. 
    CaptainRogers
  • CaptainRogersCaptainRogers Greensboro, NCMember Posts: 689
    edited March 29
    Wow. That Batmobile is a must. And so affordable! Only issue I see is modding the front to remove that big bat, but wow it's a beautiful set.

    Other thoughts:

    Yay Shazam! And another Commissioner Gordon is nice. I do like the thicker Batwing as well.

    Batcave... Meh. Like other Batcaves, I'll grab it on a discount. It's pretty cluttered, and seems like a missed opportunity to give Robin medium legs. And I've got versions of all of those characters - they're just variants at this point. And that tank is not pretty.

    Mr. Freeze.. It's ok. Definitely like the Mysterio helmet being used on Victor. At least this one won't make a big dent in the budget if you grab it.
    Bumblepantsklinton
  • pxchrispxchris Oregon, USAMember Posts: 449
    To date, I've actually never bought a Batman set (for myself)... that might change for that Batmobile. Definitely brings up the good vibes of 80s Batman!
    klinton
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 5,611
    Ok so I am somewhat ashamed to admit it but the Jrs. Arkham is the one catching my eye. The sand green castle panels, the dark green rooftops, the extra prison jumpsuits. That said the helicopter is a new level of awful and the double catapult cart is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in a Lego set.
    560Heliportgmonkey76
  • jmeninnojmeninno The Batcave (MA)Member Posts: 680
    Copying from the "leaks" thread:
    I must say, I'm not a huge fan of the line.  I really liked getting Firefly, but not really that excited after seeing the images.  Maybe I'm just reaching my breaking point...where is Scarface and the Ventriloquist?  We've seen them in Lego form in various media.  Where is the bigfig Solomon Grundy, especially after the Lego DC Super Villains game?  Where is Mad Hatter?  I could go on...
    Update:  Maybe I just need the images to settle in a bit.  I'll still probably get them all due to my obsess...hobby...but will be over the moon when I do finally see some new villains (new being villains not ever actually produced in a physical Lego form...)
    gmonkey76
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 5,611
    jmeninno said:
    Copying from the "leaks" thread:
    I must say, I'm not a huge fan of the line.  I really liked getting Firefly, but not really that excited after seeing the images.  Maybe I'm just reaching my breaking point...where is Scarface and the Ventriloquist?  We've seen them in Lego form in various media.  Where is the bigfig Solomon Grundy, especially after the Lego DC Super Villains game?  Where is Mad Hatter?  I could go on...
    Update:  Maybe I just need the images to settle in a bit.  I'll still probably get them all due to my obsess...hobby...but will be over the moon when I do finally see some new villains (new being villains not ever actually produced in a physical Lego form...)
    There is a purple top hat in the render for the Jrs Arkham. Not sure why but it reminded me it would be simple enough to find an appropriate head, stick a top hat on, and Boom: Arkham Mad Hatter. I loved the episodes of him in The Animated Series and have given up waiting for a Lego version.
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    Ugh. I dunno, mate. I've learned through trial and error that buying a Juniors set, no matter how attractive it seems, always leaves me regretting the purchase. The five minutes you spend assembling the near nonexistent 'build' never seems to justify the price. 

    Unless you really need those jumpsuits and/or wall parts? 
    BrickByBrick
  • mustang69mustang69 North CarolinaMember Posts: 355
    I'll probably get the BTAS style Batmobile since I dont have one to go with my Penguin Arctic Roller and Joker-mobile but other than that I dont find the rest appealing.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 5,611
    klinton said:
    Ugh. I dunno, mate. I've learned through trial and error that buying a Juniors set, no matter how attractive it seems, always leaves me regretting the purchase. The five minutes you spend assembling the near nonexistent 'build' never seems to justify the price. 

    Unless you really need those jumpsuits and/or wall parts? 
    Oh I wouldn't even consider building it. I would be getting it for moc fodder at a discount if I do indeed get it.
    klintongmonkey76
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,246
    I think there was rumour of a D2C batmobile, or do we only get the 30$ one? this one looks really good anyway, I'm not sure how a 100+$ one is gonna be at least 3 times better.
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,090
    I’m not loving this wave at all. There are some nice figures but the builds look like a massive step backward in design to me. The Batmobile just looks like an undefined version of the one in #76035 to me. The that brick built Clayface is a huge disappointment after the LEGO Batman Movie version too:

    i dont like to be super super negative so, at least some of the figs are great. That Jim Gordon is probably the best version of the character yet. Also is it just me or does that Mr Freeze have the same bubble head helmet as Mysterio in the Spider-Man Far From Home sets? I assumed it was  moulded to the head on mysterio, but that makes it look like a separate piece.
    J0rgenLEGOFan2
  • ReesesPiecesReesesPieces Member Posts: 760
    When the set titles were leaked, I was really hoping for a regular minifigure version of clay face.  One day....
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    I'd just like a Groot minifig with extended legs...
    gmonkey76LittleLoripharmjod
  • gmonkey76gmonkey76 ChicagoMember Posts: 1,397
    ^and also for Chewy.
    pharmjod
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,723
    Well that wave is going to save me a lot of money. Nothing interesting that hasnt seen before and not enough to buy. I will probably pick up the Shazam figure separately. 

    I understand that Kids want the Joker, Riddler and Catwoman as main villians. But the DC villians catalogue is so vast I dont understand why they dont add more variety into the packs for adult fans. I feel like TLBM was as good as it was going to get for obscurer batman villians. 
    jmeninnomadforLEGOSumoLegoCaptainRogersBumblepantsMegtheCat560Heliport
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,631
    ^ Uh, yeah.  I wouldn't expect the Condiment King to surface again in a Batman-related property.
    gmonkey76stluxpharmjodRedbullgivesuwind
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,220
    I wish they would bring back the Joker's 'flat top' hair like his first figure had. Likely will get the Riddler set for Shazam and Gordon, and the police car is nice as well.

    I would buy Shazam separately, but he will likely go for at least 10 bucks on Bricklink due to the fact everyone will want him, so I may as well buy the set and get the extra figure and parts (likely will be discounted at some point as well)
    gmonkey76
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    edited March 31
    Well that wave is going to save me a lot of money. Nothing interesting that hasnt seen before and not enough to buy. I will probably pick up the Shazam figure separately. 

    I understand that Kids want the Joker, Riddler and Catwoman as main villians. But the DC villians catalogue is so vast I dont understand why they dont add more variety into the packs for adult fans. I feel like TLBM was as good as it was going to get for obscurer batman villians. 
    They're not so terrible at randomly releasing lesser known Bat villains, are they? Just last year we got Brother Eye and some Talons. Those were squarely aimed at older fans, as niether have graced the animated programs. 

    It's a trickle, for sure, but it's really no better nor worse than other Batman playline level collections. 
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    klinton said:
    Well that wave is going to save me a lot of money. Nothing interesting that hasnt seen before and not enough to buy. I will probably pick up the Shazam figure separately. 

    I understand that Kids want the Joker, Riddler and Catwoman as main villians. But the DC villians catalogue is so vast I dont understand why they dont add more variety into the packs for adult fans. I feel like TLBM was as good as it was going to get for obscurer batman villians. 
    They're not so terrible at randomly releasing lesser known Bat villains, are they? Just last year we got Brother Eye and some Talons. Those were squarely aimed at older fans, as niether have graced the animated programs. 

    It's a trickle, for sure, but it's really no better nor worse than other Batman playline level collections. 
    Older fans?
    The Court of Owls, and thus the Talons, appeared with the New 52 reboot, when Scott Snyder started scripting Batman (2011 if I recall correctly). Am I to assume that only "old people" read comics? Or that, despite their continuous appearance and reference since then, no younger people started reading comics?
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    jnscoelho said:
    Older fans?
    The Court of Owls, and thus the Talons, appeared with the New 52 reboot, when Scott Snyder started scripting Batman (2011 if I recall correctly). Am I to assume that only "old people" read comics? Or that, despite their continuous appearance and reference since then, no younger people started reading comics?
    In the numbers of potential customers needed to carry a commercial playline product? No, there is no younger market reading comics these days. Comic book readers are indeed largely older people, and even then it's a very niche market these days with print runs of even the most successful books capping out at only a few hundred thousand. 

    If it hasn't been featured in animated programs or in movies, children (and their toy buying parents) are likely not familiar with it at all. Thus the constant retread of the classic screen villains, with little spatterings of popular comic book characters. 
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,246
    I think this wave looks pretty good, the batmobile and batcave may be the best ones so far
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    klinton said:
    jnscoelho said:
    Older fans?
    The Court of Owls, and thus the Talons, appeared with the New 52 reboot, when Scott Snyder started scripting Batman (2011 if I recall correctly). Am I to assume that only "old people" read comics? Or that, despite their continuous appearance and reference since then, no younger people started reading comics?
    In the numbers of potential customers needed to carry a commercial playline product? No, there is no younger market reading comics these days. Comic book readers are indeed largely older people, and even then it's a very niche market these days with print runs of even the most successful books capping out at only a few hundred thousand. 

    If it hasn't been featured in animated programs or in movies, children (and their toy buying parents) are likely not familiar with it at all. Thus the constant retread of the classic screen villains, with little spatterings of popular comic book characters. 
    That's a shame... I remember spending all my money in comics even before I was a teenager...
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,090
    Not wanting to take this too off topic but there are plenty of kids that buy comics/comic books, but the superhero comic book market tends to skew older, so comics are still very much a popular thing, but it's.fair to say that kids are likely to know more of the bigger name villains than current run comic villains. 
    Aanchir
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,723
    Comics are still popular but they are not the powerhouse that they were during the bubble in the early 90's. A few 100,000 is now considered a success hence why DC and Marvel keep changing things to try and attract new readers. It was why DC launched the New 52 to drop a lot of the baggage of the characters to try and get new people in. It didn't work and alienated a lot of their current audience. 

    @klinton yes to be fair they do put some of the smaller villains in the odd smaller set. But I would like to see them add more variety to the lines rather than the big four Joker, Two Face, Riddler and Catwoman. Keep those in but partner them with other villains or more obscure heroes. It gives those villains a bit more exposure so means that they can be used in the comics to draw in new fans.
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    It's funny, though, because with the New 52 I got into a lot more comics than just Batman and Superman related, but with Rebirth I got fed up with the constant changes (and I didn't want the old Superman back) and quit reading comics again...
    They had great storylines with the New 52 (Wonder Woman was a great example), I also thought that Superman and WW together (finally!) was a great decision, but they didn't have the balls to stick with it.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,723
    There were a lot of great stories. Also a lot of dross as well. I dropped out of reading comics because they kept changing and rebooting the universe. I fully understand that to just pick up another characters comic out of the most well known ones is really hard without understanding references etc. I agree they didn't have the balls to stick with it. I felt with the New 52 they threw the baby out with the bath water because they ditched all the stuff that I had invested in and scrapped/changed characters that I loved (like Tim Drake). Then when that pissed off a lot of older fans they reversed and said some stuff is and then isn't in continuity. Then everything was, then nothing was. It just became a dumpster fire and put everyone off. If they had said that this was a whole new start then I would have had more respect. You can head cannon stuff, like I do with Star Wars.    
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    When it comes to DC, I actually don't mind the reboots. The DC Universe is a fractured thing and always has been. The post Crisis stretch (Crisis on Infinite Earths until Flashpoint) in the bronze age was actually an anomaly in it's releative cohesion. The gold, silver, and modern ages are all a mishmash of wildly conflicting timelines. It's always framed in such a manner that the discharge of continuity threads are in continuity. My favorite stories span the gamut of DC's history, and thier place in continuity is irrelevant to thier quality. All realities are relevant in the DC multiverse.

    With Marvel, I'm much less forgiving. Even the most valiant attempts to make any sense of what is supposed to be a single universe ('Avengers Forever', or Hickman's Avengers stuff, for example) are just muddled, impenetrable rot. Marvel has been completely unreadable fan fic since the onset of the MCU. 
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    I stopped reading Marvel when Claremont (and Jim Lee) left X-Men... Yeah, that long ago (even though it took a few years to reach Portugal, back in the day). At the time I stopped reading comics as a hole, and years later Batman: Hush, with that awesome Jim Lee art, brought me back to it, but DC only.
    I follow the Marvel Cinematic Universe, though. I like its cohesion, but I prefer the more socially-realistic take of the DCEU.
    Super-hero fans, however, are worst, they hate change - not only in comics, but also in film. And similar to the New 52 backlash by older comic fans, new takes on established characters in movies like Batman or Superman (especially the latter) were wildly contested, even though the ridiculous battles of Superman II or the ludicrous reception of Superman by Earth (except Lex Luthor) make no sense in today's society (it didn't make much more sense back then, but still...). Marvel, however, was able to have a long term vision and Feige steering the wheel, while DC has WB's suits messing everything up at every single turn. 
  • hoyatableshoyatables Northern Virginia, USAMember Posts: 858
    I began reading DC in the 90s with Superman 75 and it grew from there. I ended up collecting both forwards and backwards and loved the relative fun of their continuity — including the ways in which they would try to work in pre crisis concepts or undo their post Crisis changes. It read as one big long saga and the hiccups were understandable and amusing. They lost me with New52. Everything became bland and unsatisfying. Convergence and Rebirth brought back what I loved and I’ve been happy since. 
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    I began reading DC in the 90s with Superman 75 and it grew from there. I ended up collecting both forwards and backwards and loved the relative fun of their continuity — including the ways in which they would try to work in pre crisis concepts or undo their post Crisis changes. It read as one big long saga and the hiccups were understandable and amusing. They lost me with New52. Everything became bland and unsatisfying. Convergence and Rebirth brought back what I loved and I’ve been happy since. 
    Really? Morrison's Action Comics run in the New 52 is, hands down, my favorite Superman story. Ever. 


  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 276
    I prefer Scott Snyder's Superman Unchained, but Morrison's was still better than that "I'm going to walk around the USA" crap just before the New 52.
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 401
    edited April 1
    jnscoelho said:
    I stopped reading Marvel when Claremont (and Jim Lee) left X-Men... Yeah, that long ago (even though it took a few years to reach Portugal, back in the day). At the time I stopped reading comics as a hole, and years later Batman: Hush, with that awesome Jim Lee art, brought me back to it, but DC only.
    I follow the Marvel Cinematic Universe, though. I like its cohesion, but I prefer the more socially-realistic take of the DCEU.
    Super-hero fans, however, are worst, they hate change - not only in comics, but also in film. And similar to the New 52 backlash by older comic fans, new takes on established characters in movies like Batman or Superman (especially the latter) were wildly contested, even though the ridiculous battles of Superman II or the ludicrous reception of Superman by Earth (except Lex Luthor) make no sense in today's society (it didn't make much more sense back then, but still...). Marvel, however, was able to have a long term vision and Feige steering the wheel, while DC has WB's suits messing everything up at every single turn. 
    The MCU makes for fine popcorn entertainment. The characters and plotlines have increasinly (with each installment) little in common with thier comic book counterparts though (well, the comics prior to the horrifying attempts by Marvel to copy the screen versions in the books). I can't watch the films without getting annoyed at the mess they've made of characters I've known and loved for decades. I literally cannot sit through either of the GotG films, and Avengers: Infinity War physically hurt to watch. 

    DC films, again, are much easier to take in stride. Everything and everything is equally valid (Lego Batman is canonical in the DC Multiverse, as is Superman Returns), as it exists on some other earth. The only issue I have with any DC film production was the inclusion of the Monitor in the Arrowverse crossover last December. You can literally change anything about any character in DC (one of my all time favorite Wonder Woman stories had Diana portrayed as an alien monster in a derelict space frieghter!), except for the Monitor. He is constant across all realities. 
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