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General Marvel Discussion

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  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda The world's backsideMember Posts: 1,295
    klinton said:
    Baby_Yoda said:
     The franchise has done a really good job of not butchering the stories that comic fans love 
    I'm sorry, but....what? Are we watching the same films? Like, at all? 
    ...I suppose not. I like the MCU films so far. I thought they executed the stories well by diverging from the standard formula enough to appeal to mainstream viewers, but not so much as to drive away traditional fans. You might believe that they're too different from the original stories, or that the ideas they do take from the comics are executed poorly. However, your post doesn't make your position very clear, and I don't know how to explain why my beliefs are different to yours when I don't know what your beliefs are.
  • ReesesPiecesReesesPieces Member Posts: 945
    SumoLego said:
    I thought someone was atleast trying with Logan, but the whole 'clone of the main character' bad-guy was an uninspired story.
    I agree 100%!  I enjoyed Logan but was disappointed by the ending.  A bad guy wolverine clone is something that some 5-6 year old might come up with.  Very uninspiring indeed.
    SumoLego
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,189
    Baby_Yoda said:
    klinton said:
    Baby_Yoda said:
     The franchise has done a really good job of not butchering the stories that comic fans love 
    I'm sorry, but....what? Are we watching the same films? Like, at all? 
    ...I suppose not. I like the MCU films so far. I thought they executed the stories well by diverging from the standard formula enough to appeal to mainstream viewers, but not so much as to drive away traditional fans. You might believe that they're too different from the original stories, or that the ideas they do take from the comics are executed poorly. However, your post doesn't make your position very clear, and I don't know how to explain why my beliefs are different to yours when I don't know what your beliefs are.
    Hah! I thought I'd done my fair share or ranting in here, and that my opinions of the MCU were violently clear. I'm really not a fan.

    The films did a decent job of conveying the characters for a while there until it all came off the rails and went completely into left field. "Age of Ultron" was the last enjoyable film in the lot, but started to dabble with divergent character presentations. By the time GotG rolled around, they had completely jettisoned everything about the characters, save the names. It was unrecognizable rubbish. It's been a steady downhill sh*tstorm ever since (with, perhaps the exception of BP). "Infinity War" was a complete affront. It was actally painful to watch. 

    The reason most "fans" enjoy the films is because they were never fans prior to the films' existence. Which is perfectly fine, btw. The flms are their own animal and have attracted a global audience that the comics just never could. They are in no way any sort representation of what came before though. /shrug

    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    I think the only real comparison between comic storylines and movie plots are 'big' ideas and 'little' details.

    And that's not an endorsement of version or another.  Some comic storylines are good, some are so unintelligible and convoluted that there is no sense.  And, comic books are long-form, whereas a movie is not.

    I wouldn't waste my energy being mad about how characters are portrayed in a different medium as long as the story is engaging and entertaining.  I happen to love the Long Halloween, but I can't imagine any filmmaker taking the time to really do the story justice.
    Baby_Yodadmcc0
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,189
    SumoLego said:

    I wouldn't waste my energy being mad about how characters are portrayed in a different medium as long as the story is engaging and entertaining.  
    Oh, it doesn't make me angry. I mean, the MCU is the only reason I have Lego minifigs of personal favorites like Mantis, Vision, and Wanda. They even made Ayesha. Ayesha, a character I never expected to see rendered in plastic. 

    The merchandising alone makes the films most welcome, imho. I just don't like the actual movies. Mad props to the billions of people who do though. Keep the machine rolling! ;)
    560HeliportSumoLego
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaMember Posts: 2,315
    klinton said:
    The reason most "fans" enjoy the films is because they were never fans prior to the films' existence. Which is perfectly fine, btw. The flms are their own animal and have attracted a global audience that the comics just never could. They are in no way any sort representation of what came before though. /shrug
    I grew up with a steady stream of Marvel & DC comic books thanks to my uncle (including some seriously obscure ones like ROM, Moon Knight, etc) & I absolutely loved the majority of the MCU films (exceptions: IM3, Ragnarok & probably CM, haven't seen it yet, but plot sounds worse than the other two combined).

    Adapting written works for film is rarely an easy task & usually the movie will fall short of the original source material, when it comes to comics, there's plenty of older productions that prove this, such as the original Incredible Hulk tv series/tv movies with David Bruce Banner, the original Amazing Spider-Man films (as in before Maguire), etc, I loved them as a kid, but now they really show their age.

    Marvel Studios is still streets ahead of Sony's attempts at FF (especially the last one) & the first Spider-Man films (they did much better with Garfield), or Fox's attempts at X-Men.
    BumblepantsSumoLegoBaby_Yodapharmjod
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    I've read the source material for the Captain America films and the films are all so much better than the comic book stories they were inspired by. I don't know about the other heroes, but Cap really shines in his solo movies. I also think the Raimi Spider-Man films capture the tone of the first Spider-Man comics very well.
    SumoLego
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu AustraliaMember Posts: 2,315
    ^ Raimi's Spider-Man was missing Spidey's wise-cracks & the biological web ability removed the whole danger of running out of webbing/having the shooters get damaged. Those two things were major reasons why I couldn't quite get into them & why Maguire wasn't really Spider-Man to me, Garfield was much more what I expected for the Webhead, Holland is pretty much close to mark too (both haven't been perfect, both are like 90-95% of the way there).
    SumoLegoBumblepantsgmonkey76pharmjod
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    I never liked any of the Captain America comics.  (Much like the older Superman comics.)  They're there to serve a purpose, but don't make for great multi-dimensional characters.

    Aside from Civil War, which he's still the conscience, but gets a little gritty nonetheless.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,543
    VorpalRyu said:
    ^ Raimi's Spider-Man was missing Spidey's wise-cracks & the biological web ability removed the whole danger of running out of webbing/having the shooters get damaged. Those two things were major reasons why I couldn't quite get into them & why Maguire wasn't really Spider-Man to me, Garfield was much more what I expected for the Webhead, Holland is pretty much close to mark too (both haven't been perfect, both are like 90-95% of the way there).
    The whole thing of casting ~30 year olds as highschoolers puts me off. Really made it difficult to like Tugboat Mcguire as Spiderman. I like that Holland is actually young enough to look like he belongs in school.
    BOBJACK_JACKBOBMegtheCatgmonkey76Baby_Yodapharmjod
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    Speaking of Cap and Spidey, there are a couple of lines from the MCU that have always bothered me that I've wondered wether anyone else reacted to as well. Cap's «There's only one god, Ma'am...» from the first Avengers and «Language!» from Ultron, as well as Spidey referring to «...that really old movie, The Empire Strikes Back...» The Captain America lines stick out to me as out of character for him as I don't think he has those kinds of values, while the Spidey quote is illogical because if he considered it an old movie he would refer to it as «...that really old Star Wars movie...» and if he was a casual fan he would call it Star Wars: Episode V. Calling it both «a really old movie» and simply The Empire Strikes Back does not compute with me.
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,971
    Maybe Empire is the only SW movie Spidey has seen?
    pharmjod
  • The_RancorThe_Rancor Dorset, UKMember Posts: 1,311
    ^ With Cap I think they're just trying to keep reminding us of his 'yesteryear' values that occasionally creep through. It created a lot of memes when he said a 'bad word' in the Endgame promo clip though!
    stluxgmonkey76Baby_YodapharmjodVorpalRyu
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    I always felt those lines were prime examples of how Joss Whedon didn't get the character.
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,971
    ^ Hey hey hey! Spoiler! Just kidding. I haven't seen a trailer yet for Endgame. Not trying to avoid all spoilers; I just don't watch TV, and haven't gone to a movie lately.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,940
    For me, Tom Holland is by far the best Peter parker seen in film. Tobey Maguire completely ruined Spidey for me - a whiny wuss, not in the least bit like the Peter Parker from the comics.

    I have enjoyed pretty much all of the recent Marvel films, from the first Iron  Man film to Infinity War. Weakest one for me was GotG2.

    I did like all of the Xmen films done recently too (the McAvoy Xavier ones - not the first set done purely by Bryan Singer. 

    A good set of villains goes a long way - and that's why Spiderman wins it for me as my favourite Superhero. Such a range of worthy adversaries. Same reason Batman is my favourite DC Superhero (not a fan of DC generally).
    SumoLegoredarmy
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,189
    J0rgen said:
    I've read the source material for the Captain America films and the films are all so much better than the comic book stories they were inspired by. I don't know about the other heroes, but Cap really shines in his solo movies. I also think the Raimi Spider-Man films capture the tone of the first Spider-Man comics very well.
    The Cap films were absolutely the hilight of the MCU,, but are you seriously trying to imply that Winter Soldier (the film) was in any way superior to Brubaker's original saga? Or that Steve and Bucky's WWII adventures onscreen were anywhere within the realms of Waid and Bru's retellings of those origin mythos? Than the Stern and Byrne stuff? Really? 

    Yes, of course, the films outshine the original Cap comics published in the 40s. Most grade school prose is better than that rubbish. There are decades of material though, ranging from the mediocre to the bizarre to the absolutely profound. Having picked up a comic or two and declaring yourself an expert on the entire canon is a bit obtuse. 
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    klinton said:
    ...a bit obtuse. 
    ...snickers... I think that's some geniune non-Alanis Morissette irony.

    Don't'cha think?
    Baby_YodaVorpalRyudmcc0
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda The world's backsideMember Posts: 1,295
    ^ So... not like rain on your wedding day?
    VorpalRyuAstrobricks
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,912
    J0rgen said:
    I always felt those lines were prime examples of how Joss Whedon didn't get the character.

    Having not ever read any of the captain America comics but loving him as a character it totally makes sense to hear a super patriotic man with a relatively rigid moral and ethical code that grew up in 1920s-1940s America make those statements, but perhaps that's just me. Though not terribly accurate now, the USA was once a predominantly "Christian" nation.
    VorpalRyudavetheoxygenmanstluxMegtheCatBaby_Yoda
  • GremerGremer The Commonwealth of VirginiaMember Posts: 183
    Cap was from the 1940s, was frozen for 70 years, and then wakes up in 2011 in a brand new world. He's a man out of time. It's completely reasonable that his morals and his societal standards came with him.
    gmonkey76pharmjodVorpalRyudavetheoxygenmanstluxMegtheCat560HeliportBaby_Yoda
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    What I love about Winter Soldier the film isn't the actual Winter Soldier, so I prefer the film to the comic. The First Avenger seems to me to be inspired by the Silver Age stories by Stan Lee, with Red Skull, the Cosmic Cube and whatnot, and I think it improves upon them.

    Cap never strikes me as Christian, which I guess is why the «...only one God...»-quote doesn't sit with me, while the «Language!»-quote clashes with the fact that Cap fought in WWII for years with a rough band of soldiers, where I'm sure he would have heard so much worse all the time.
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,912
    @VorpalRyu nailed it
    SumoLegodatsunrobbiedmcc0VorpalRyugmonkey76davetheoxygenmanBaby_Yoda
  • datsunrobbiedatsunrobbie West Haven , CTMember Posts: 1,583
    Might be a regional thing, but in rural NC in the late 70s through the 80s profanity was still used very sparingly. It has become so prevalent now that a lot of the impact is lost.
    The "F" word gets used so much it should not even count as profanity any more.
    pharmjodVorpalRyugmonkey76davetheoxygenmanBaby_Yoda
  • dmcc0dmcc0 Nae far fae AberdeenMember Posts: 778
    Profanity? I thought the F word was used as punctuation.
    VorpalRyuBaby_YodaBrainslugged
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 3,445
    edited April 2019
    What’s considered profane changes over time. Some things “polite” people said 80 years ago are considered shocking now.
    VorpalRyuBaby_Yoda
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    Well, there's an awful amount of cussing in '80's movies.  Moreso then than now.
    VorpalRyuklintonBaby_Yoda
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,971
    IIRC, around 1978 or so, there was an episode of The Incredible Hulk (the TV series) in which someone said "damn". There was an article in our local newspaper about it!
    VorpalRyu
  • pxchrispxchris Oregon, USAMember Posts: 952
    SumoLego said:
    Well, there's an awful amount of cussing in '80's movies.  Moreso then than now.
    This is never more evident than when introducing an old childhood favorite to your own kids.
    VorpalRyupharmjodSumoLegoklintonBumblepantsBaby_Yoda
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    pxchris said:
    This is never more evident than when introducing an old childhood favorite to your own kids.
    My five year-old watching The Goonies and Short Circuit made that very evident!
    VorpalRyupharmjoddavetheoxygenmanpxchrisMaffyD
  • ReesesPiecesReesesPieces Member Posts: 945
    Not just language but even with violence.  Movies like Jaws and Poltergeist are rated PG ...same shrek and Ice Age.
    VorpalRyuSumoLegogmonkey76
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 3,445
    IIRC, around 1978 or so, there was an episode of The Incredible Hulk (the TV series) in which someone said "damn". There was an article in our local newspaper about it!
    I remember when it was a big deal that they allowed the phrase “son of a bitch” on M*A*S*H. 
    VorpalRyu
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,189
    SumoLego said:
    klinton said:
    ...a bit obtuse. 
    ...snickers... I think that's some geniune non-Alanis Morissette irony.

    Don't'cha think?
    I...don't? Am I being obtuse? If so, I apologize. I was a bit taken back by the sweeping declarations of dislike for the entirety of literally hundreds upon hundreds of individual stories by authors of diverse tallent and generes of expertise. I mean, if you like the character (beyond a simple crush on the actor playing him onscreen), then there are stories that will absolutely sate your interest. There is far more Brubaker, Stern, Remender, and Waid in Cap's prolific history than there is Gruenwald, Liefeld, or Priest. Even if the films stood completely on par with the very best Cap stories over the years, the sheer volume of material contained on printed pages would far outwiegh what's on the screen. Unless we're talking about a general dislike of comic books as a medium, which is a valid stance (albeit a bizarre one, :p). /cranky old man ranting.
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    I was making a language joke.

    I make the same jokes when someone uses a quantitative value for something that either is or isn't.

    Like being a 'little' pregnant.  Or in this case, a 'little' obtuse.  (You're either obtuse or not...)
    klintonVorpalRyuBaby_Yoda
  • RecceRecce Tiny Little Red DotMember Posts: 919
    A bit OT here, so no one's talking about End Game?

    Or is everyone pretending NOT to see the elephant in the room?
    VorpalRyuBaby_Yoda
  • NatfireNatfire KnowhereMember Posts: 10
    Given most haven't seen the elephant yet, I reckon it's better to not discuss the film.

    #ThanosDemandsYourSilence and whatnot.
    BumblepantsJ0rgenwardmBaby_YodaLittleLoriMegtheCatgmonkey76
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    I'm holding my tongue about Endgame until well after next week, seeing as it probably doesn't come out in the U.S. for about a month ;) I've always found it ironic that the people who've actually known these characters beforehand have been the last to see the movies.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,885
    Recce said:

    is everyone pretending NOT to see the elephant in the room?
    Great so that is the film ruined for me now I know there are Elephants in it. 
    VorpalRyupharmjod560Heliport
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,543
    Recce said:

    is everyone pretending NOT to see the elephant in the room?
    Great so that is the film ruined for me now I know there are Elephants in it. 
    Legolas or Hawkeye or someone snowboards down the front of one shooting arrows.
    VorpalRyuSumoLegoRedbullgivesuwindgmonkey76
  • J0rgenJ0rgen NorwayMember Posts: 322
    Endgame got all of Cersei's elephants.
    VorpalRyudmcc0MegtheCatMaffyDBrainslugged
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda The world's backsideMember Posts: 1,295
    Endgame was the first time I've ever cried in a cinema. I still can't believe Batman's dead.
    PJ76ukBumblepantsdmcc0VorpalRyu560Heliportgmonkey76davetheoxygenman
  • jnscoelhojnscoelho PortugalMember Posts: 539
    edited April 2019
    Baby_Yoda said:
    Endgame was the first time I've ever cried in a cinema. I still can't believe Batman's dead.
    And Thanos was in fact an evil Piglet from Winnie the Pooh.
    Baby_YodaBumblepantsVorpalRyugmonkey76
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,543
    I thought Thanos was a leftover California Raisin that just escaped the freezer after being trapped there since the '90s TV ads.
    SumoLegoVorpalRyuBaby_Yodagmonkey76guachi
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    You can't kill the Grimace.
    VorpalRyugmonkey76
  • CaptainRogersCaptainRogers Greensboro, NCMember Posts: 814
    Fewer than 12 hours, and I'll be seeing it in theaters! But being the good citizen that I am, I shall spoil nothing at all until a later date when that becomes acceptable. 

    I once was reading a film score website about the music to the original Avengers film, and some careless person just casually mentioned he liked the music that plays at the end when Thanos appears. Before the movie was even released in the states. I was livid.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,239
    (There's an off-topic thread where you can spoil away!)
    MegtheCatVorpalRyugmonkey76davetheoxygenman
  • CaptainRogersCaptainRogers Greensboro, NCMember Posts: 814
    edited April 2019
    I thought Thanos was a leftover California Raisin that just escaped the freezer after being trapped there since the '90s TV ads.
    He actually ends up being an older, time-travelling Red Skull after years of lifting weights. At the end of the film he goes back to his home planet and opens a fitness center chain called The Infinity Gyms.
    SumoLegojnscoelhoRedbullgivesuwindBumblepantsVorpalRyuBaby_Yodagmonkey76
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,885
    He actually ends up being an older, time-travelling Red Skull after years of lifting weights. At the end of the film he goes back to his home planet and opens a fitness center chain called The Infinity Gyms.
    Twist Thanos is actually a gym bro. "Iron Man do you even lift bru? Hey Black widow I was like benching 140kg yesterday. That is, like, a personal best. You know you are really using those weights wrong. As a gym expert I will tell you exactly what you are doing wrong based on an internet video I saw".
    VorpalRyu
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,885
    J0rgen said:
    Endgame got all of Cersei's elephants.
    I have no sympathy for Cersei. She used DHL to deliver those elephants so should have known they wont turn up until 6 weeks after the expected delivery date.
    J0rgenVorpalRyudmcc0SumoLegoMegtheCatgmonkey76
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