General Marvel Discussion

SumoLego

The_Rancor said:

However any story that goes into a future that won't actually exist asking for odd plot holes. 

I think they were cognizant of that after the in-series references to the Dark World, Winter Soldier and Ultron.

There's not much upside for these TV shows or films in making the viewer work harder across multiple platforms to enjoy a television show.  I always enjoyed the guest stars from the movies, and desparately wanted to see SHIELD agents in the movie - but I'm already invested in both.   

My guess the whole Matrix-esque season and the alternative future Kree prison season were both efforts to avoid creating any plot conflicts with anything in MCU Phase 3.

PJ76uk

SumoLego said:

The_Rancor said:

However any story that goes into a future that won't actually exist asking for odd plot holes. 

I think they were cognizant of that after the in-series references to the Dark World, Winter Soldier and Ultron.

There's not much upside for these TV shows or films in making the viewer work harder across multiple platforms to enjoy a television show.  I always enjoyed the guest stars from the movies, and desparately wanted to see SHIELD agents in the movie - but I'm already invested in both.   

My guess the whole Matrix-esque season and the alternative future Kree prison season were both efforts to avoid creating any plot conflicts with anything in MCU Phase 3.

Also I'm pretty sure the Agents of Shield that returned to the present day from that specific future are doing what they can to prevent that future ever taking place. Thus allowing both movies and television series to cohabit the same universe (AKA MCU)...

The_Rancor

I expect when Disney outputs more of their own MCU character tv shows they will want to link better to the films. Even if Captain Marvel doesn't do that perfectly at least there is a lot of clear effort in seeding Easter eggs and relations to other films.

Brixfan02

VorpalRyu said:

Reading up the plot for Captain Marvel, it sounds like a complete cluster-frak, pulling from Mar-Vell (the original Captain Marvel), Rambeau & Danvers....so I'll possibly give it a miss. The big issue is, if she's such a heavy hitter, why is it only now that Fury called her in, CM causes a massive smoking crater sized plot hole in the MCU, why was she not called in when Loki seized the Tesseract, or when Ultron went psychotic?

kevin fiege (i think) said that "just because this is the first time we see him call her doesn't mean he didn't do it before"

SumoLego

^ I like my theory.  Unfortunately, Captain Marvel is a bit of a Deux Ex Machina, so it wouldn't make much sense if she were involved with anything in the MCU after 1995 and before the snap. 

I would hope the CM sequel would deal with her helping found a Skrulls homeland and fending off some Kree, and laying waste to an incorrigible Yon-Rogg and explain the reason for the Kree signing a peace treaty with the Nova Corps.  (That does feel a lot like Solo.  Or Rogue One.)

I also find it weird that she's not in the team shot with the white suits.  Banner isn't either, which I also find odd.

Anyway, I trust this is going to be awesome.

SumoLego

PJ76uk said:
Also I'm pretty sure the Agents of Shield that returned to the present day from that specific future are doing what they can to prevent that future ever taking place.

Well, yes.  The last two seasons were essentially non-related to the MCU.  All of the Netflix shows ended up being handled the same way as well.  

klinton

An alternate future timeline doesn't imply "irrelevant to the MCU". No one is going to deny that stories like "Days of Future Past", "The Kang Dynasty" or "The House of M" are cornerstones of 616 continuity, despite those realities beng undone and never coming to pass. The same is true of Agents of SHIELD's Kree storyline. 

ReesesPieces

Maybe captain marvel sequels will take place in the past (kind of like wonder woman movies) which will explain what she was up to during the first two avengers movies.

VorpalRyu

SumoLego said:

I also find it weird that she's not in the team shot with the white suits.  Banner isn't either, which I also find odd.

Anyway, I trust this is going to be awesome.

Rumours have been going for a while now that eventually that Banner & the Hulk make peace with each other, causing a merging of their personalities & resulting in the Intelligent Hulk. Judging by surfacing of the Quantum Suit Hulk Titan Hero toy that has been floating around the net, I'd guess it's happening & the reason we aren't seeing Banner/Hulk in that group scene is that Marvel want to keep as much of the potential audience in the dark as they can.

SumoLego

How much would you enjoy putting completely bogus toys out there?

Quantum Suit Deadpool...
Quantum Suit Ghost Rider...
Anything Quicksilver...
A She-Hulk...

klinton

ReesesPieces said:

Maybe captain marvel sequels will take place in the past (kind of like wonder woman movies) which will explain what she was up to during the first two avengers movies.

Or, maybe they plan on incorporating the X-men into continuity retroactively after they acquire Fox and she was 'Rogued' in the MCU the whole time? 

ReesesPieces

@klinton that would be a neat idea if the writers were able to pull it off!

Baby_Yoda

I wonder if they'll merge the current X-men and MCU storylines or reboot the X-men in the context of the MCU. I think the latter is more likely, considering the size of the audience invested in it.

klinton

Baby_Yoda said:

I wonder if they'll merge the current X-men and MCU storylines or reboot the X-men in the context of the MCU. I think the latter is more likely, considering the size of the audience invested in it.

They had better reboot it. The FoX-men films are a bloody train wreck. I honestly hope that 'Dark Phoenix' never sees the light of day. Fox has already mangled the story once on screen, and if they cock it up a second time I don't think we'll ever see a third attempt. 

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

klinton said:

They had better reboot it. The FoX-men films are a bloody train wreck. I honestly hope that 'Dark Phoenix' never sees the light of day. Fox has already mangled the story once on screen, and if they cock it up a second time I don't think we'll ever see a third attempt. 

I also have no faith in the X-Men film francise at this point. I really hope that Disney and Fox have the balls to make Dark Pheonix a real endpoint of this version of the X-Men, real universe destroying stuff, enabling Disney to reboot the X-Men into the MCU. Doing this would also mean that the Fox version would still have some relevance. Unlikely I know, but one can dream....

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

Any thoughts on the post credit scenes(s) for Endgame? Gonna be controvertial and say I hope there are none. This film is the end of this era. I don't want teasers for the next one. My suggestion (again, a bit of a fantasy but whatever) would be an extended, maybe 5-10 minute mix of behind the scene stuff from across all 20-odd films featuring Stan Lee interacting with the actors, directors, etc. Ideally even acknowledging and showing clips from other Marvel films like X-men, Deadpool, Raimi Spider-Man etc.

I think that would be the ideal way to cap off this era of the MCU.

stlux

klinton said:

Baby_Yoda said:

I wonder if they'll merge the current X-men and MCU storylines or reboot the X-men in the context of the MCU. I think the latter is more likely, considering the size of the audience invested in it.

They had better reboot it. The FoX-men films are a bloody train wreck. I honestly hope that 'Dark Phoenix' never sees the light of day. Fox has already mangled the story once on screen, and if they cock it up a second time I don't think we'll ever see a third attempt. 

Simon Kinberg, who co-wrote The Last Stand, is now revisiting the Dark Phoenix storyline by both writing and directing the upcoming movie. So the person who helped **** up this storyline is at it again. If you didn't get that from the trailer yet: set expectations to Low.

J0rgen

I don't want any end credit scene in Endgame either, but I expect there to be one. A lot of people, myself included are gonna be done with Marvel after this one, and not doing an end credit scene will add to the feeling of finality a lot of us are experiencing, so since they want to leave the door open for more, they should probably do one.

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

J0rgen said:

I don't want any end credit scene in Endgame either, but I expect there to be one. A lot of people, myself included are gonna be done with Marvel after this one, and not doing an end credit scene will add to the feeling of finality a lot of us are experiencing, so since they want to leave the door open for more, they should probably do one.

Why would you, and others, be done with Marvel after this film? Not trying to be confrontational but this is the first time I've heard anyone express this sentiment and I can't think of any reason why.

J0rgen

Super hero fatigue. I think Endgame will be the jumping off point for a lot of people.

SumoLego

BOBJACK_JACKBOB said:
I really hope that Disney and Fox have the balls to make Dark Pheonix a real endpoint of this version of the X-Men, real universe destroying stuff, enabling Disney to reboot the X-Men into the MCU.

Disney didn't have any input into the development of the Fox X-Men franchise, including this anticipated (presumably last) calamity.  

And everyone loves to rampantly speculate on who should be cast as our favorite X-Men, so I'm sure Disney will want to start from zero.  And they have an affinity for origin stories...

VorpalRyu

BOBJACK_JACKBOB said:

J0rgen said:

I don't want any end credit scene in Endgame either, but I expect there to be one. A lot of people, myself included are gonna be done with Marvel after this one, and not doing an end credit scene will add to the feeling of finality a lot of us are experiencing, so since they want to leave the door open for more, they should probably do one.

Why would you, and others, be done with Marvel after this film? Not trying to be confrontational but this is the first time I've heard anyone express this sentiment and I can't think of any reason why.

Several major characters, Iron Man, Hulk, Cap & Thor are probably leaving as their actors aren't signed on for more films. Add to this, Captain Marvel is set to take the helm of the Avengers, which means more Brie Larson, after storm she caused promoting Captain Marvel, keeping her on isn't going to extend the life of the MCU.

dmcc0

VorpalRyu said:

...means more Brie Larson, after storm she caused promoting Captain Marvel, keeping her on isn't going to extend the life of the MCU.

Storm? Must've missed that, although admittedly didn't look at or read much stuff before the release to avoid spoilers

stlux

@dmcc0 The only storm is in the deranged heads of the people who have been trying to make this movie flop just because it has a female lead. Their attempted manipulation of user scores on Rotten Tomatoes and other tactics prior to the release of the movie didn't work, and as far as I know (it's a part of the internet I avoid), they're now down to the conspiracy theory that movie theaters are showing the film to empty rooms, and Disney is buying up the tickets to prop up the attendance numbers. *Insert Picard's facepalm*

The movie has now already grossed over USD 750M worldwide, so fortunately lots of people seem to have been capable of ignoring the manufactured controversy.

VorpalRyu

^ Yeah, no... If having a female lead was the cause of this controversy, then why did Wonder Woman do fine? Why did the Tomb Raider movies do fine? Why did the Aliens franchise do fine?

No, the problem was Brie & her need to make Captain Marvel into a political statement.

As for trying to tank the film prior to it's release? How exactly did anyone try to do that, when you couldn't rate the movie prior to it's release, you can't leave review before cinematic release. Originally, the want to see score had a yes or no option & it was getting more no than yes responses, which caused Disney to pressure RT to change it to a simple click if you want to see.

As for showing the film to empty cinemas, I can't say much on that, but it wouldn't be the first time that a major motion picture studio pulled strings to save face. I have noticed that Captain Marvel gear isn't really selling, most of the stores locally still have pretty much what they had when the stuff first landed.

stlux

VorpalRyu said:

^ Yeah, no... If having a female lead was the cause of this controversy, then why did Wonder Woman do fine? Why did the Tomb Raider movies do fine? Why did the Aliens franchise do fine?

Who knows what's going through the heads of 8chan'ers? Pretty sure it's nothing of value, and I'm not going to try to find out.

VorpalRyu said:

No, the problem was Brie & her need to make Captain Marvel into a political statement.

As for trying to tank the film prior to it's release? How exactly did anyone try to do that, when you couldn't rate the movie prior to it's release, you can't leave review before cinematic release. Originally, the want to see score had a yes or no option & it was getting more no than yes responses, which caused Disney to pressure RT to change it to a simple click if you want to see.

As for showing the film to empty cinemas, I can't say much on that, but it wouldn't be the first time that a major motion picture studio pulled strings to save face. I have noticed that Captain Marvel gear isn't really selling, most of the stores locally still have pretty much what they had when the stuff first landed.

The "controversy" started long before Brie Larson had even opened her mouth and made any kind of statement. More details her on AP and in this Bloomberg article.

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

SumoLego said:

Disney didn't have any input into the development of the Fox X-Men franchise, including this anticipated (presumably last) calamity.  

And everyone loves to rampantly speculate on who should be cast as our favorite X-Men, so I'm sure Disney will want to start from zero.  And they have an affinity for origin stories...

I agree with both points and didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I know that the X-Men movies had nothing to do with Disney but it isn't outwith possibility, however unlikely, that they could have had an input into the ending of this film (Dark Phoenix) i.e. by requesting that Fox leave it open-ended so that Disney could continue or by confirming a total reboot and Fox deciding to go out with a bang.

I have no doubt that Disney will reboot and recast and retell the origins of the X-Men and insert them into the MCU. I'm looking forward to it.

CaptainRogers

I don't know anyone who was upset with a female lead. Like @VorpalRyu mentioned, I think it was the main actress making very generalized, political statements about a wide swath of her fans that ticked people off. 
I myself bought an opening night ticket with a friend, since I'm totally on this MCU train. I found the movie pretty generic - it was the Marvel formula, but nothing else added. Captain Marvel has no real character arc, was played woodenly (I'd blame the writing, as Brie certainly has talent), and felt invincible - ergo, it felt like there was no danger. Positives - the Skrull story, plus Fury and Coulson were a delight. Overall, 4 or 5 out of 10.

VorpalRyu

^^^ Neither my wife, nor her best friend have even visited 8chan, but guess what, neither of them are willing to go see the movie....heck @xiahna wants me to leave off buying the Captain Marvel set until I can get it at a good discount. But we're all looking forward to the Black Widow movie since it was announced to be in the works.

I'd suggest if you want to get a better picture of what the controversy is, perhaps don't rely on the MSM, who are again painting the whole situation as a small bunch of 'trolls' that are just angry white men, just like they did for TLJ/Solo, just like they did for Ghostbusters, just as they did for Black Panther (btw, Black Panther was mostly MSM trying to make it sound like there was massive controversy, I have yet to actually meet someone who didn't like it). That Star Wars Girl & the Quartering on YouTube would be a good starting point, or possibly Computing Forever, if you want to know what is actually going on with this...

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

J0rgen said:

Super hero fatigue. I think Endgame will be the jumping off point for a lot of people.

I disagree. The MCU is at it's biggest and strongest point. There's lots to look forward to in the future. If they can keep the same consistant quality, I don't believe there will be many people deciding they are done after Endgame.

VorpalRyu said:

Several major characters, Iron Man, Hulk, Cap & Thor are probably leaving as their actors aren't signed on for more films. Add to this, Captain Marvel is set to take the helm of the Avengers, which means more Brie Larson, after storm she caused promoting Captain Marvel, keeping her on isn't going to extend the life of the MCU.

And several (arguably more major) characters are likely to debut and while Brie Larson might not extend the life of the MCU, she isn't going to tank it either.

There's no denying the controversy regarding Brie Larson and Captain Marvel. Hopefully lessons will be learned, people will consider their words and actions more carefully but both she and the people against her are a very small influence on the MCU, evidenced by the success of the film.

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

stlux said:

The only storm is in the deranged heads of the people who have been trying to make this movie flop just because it has a female lead.

I think this statement does a disservice to your point, which I generally agree with.  Unless someone states that the reason they are against the film is "because it has a female lead", it is not very conductive reduce their points to that (no matter how much you suspect it to be true). It would be better, IMO, to discuss, debate and argue with them on the points that they have raised rather than do this. Just my 2 cents.

Brainslugged

J0rgen said:

Super hero fatigue. I think Endgame will be the jumping off point for a lot of people.

You'd better let Disney/Marvel know that asap. After Endgame is released, the next Spider-Man is coming out this summer and they have also reserved a further nine release dates between then and summer 2022. 

And to think Disney ostensibly scrapped the Star Wars Stories due to the risk of Star Wars fatigue! Disney threw away an easy $1B in revenue per year just because it couldn't (and still can't) acknowledge just how badly The Last Jedi f**ked up the sequel trilogy and fans' goodwill towards the brand. Disney seems to have avoided that with Captian Marvel, despite Brie Larson and (to a lesser extent) Sam Jackson's best efforts. 

jnscoelho

BOBJACK_JACKBOB said:

J0rgen said:

Super hero fatigue. I think Endgame will be the jumping off point for a lot of people.

I disagree. The MCU is at it's biggest and strongest point. There's lots to look forward to in the future. If they can keep the same consistant quality, I don't believe there will be many people deciding they are done after Endgame.

I have to disagree with this...
AMatW was plain boring, it had no interest, no solid plot, and even from the comedic stand point (in which AM was good) it failed. It's only purpose was to introduce something for Endgame and that could have been done in 5-10 minutes. For me it was one of the MCU's worst movies.
I also don't think BP was great. It was solid, but not the masterpiece everyone wants it to be (just because it has a black cast and it wouldn't be politically correct to criticize a movie with a black cast). Even MBJordan, which I find a great actor, was below his standard in this one.
I still have to see CM, but it's rating on IMDB isn't very flattering... Thus, I decided to wait for a dvd release to see it instead of going to the cinema, since tickets aren't cheap.
Overall, excluding Infinity War (which was good but not Civil War great), all the other recent MCU movies are kind of disappointing and below the level of their predecessors.

CM4S

The plot of Ant-Man and the Wasp was to retrieve a missing part of the Quantum Tunnel to rescue Janet Van Dyne from the Quantum Realm. How did you miss that?

jnscoelho

CM4S said:

The plot of Ant-Man and the Wasp was to retrieve a missing part of the Quantum Tunnel to rescue Janet Van Dyne from the Quantum Realm. How did you miss that?

I didn't. That just had no interest (or sense) and was an excuse to allow them access to the Quantum Realm for Endgame. How did you miss that?

PJ76uk

jnscoelho said:

CM4S said:

The plot of Ant-Man and the Wasp was to retrieve a missing part of the Quantum Tunnel to rescue Janet Van Dyne from the Quantum Realm. How did you miss that?

I didn't. That just had no interest (or sense) and was an excuse to allow them access to the Quantum Realm for Endgame. How did you miss that?

The first Ant-Man film mentioned Janet was lost in the Quantum Realm (supposedly this realm was/is inescapable) and Scott (Ant-Man) entered the QR and successfully escaped. So it is a foregone conclusion that the follow up movie would be about rescuing Janet. I fail to see how anyone could dismiss the plot so cavalierly....

jnscoelho

Of course you do. And fool of me to come to a Marvel discussion thread to not praise an MCU masterpiece. ;)
It was just my opinion - like I said, plot with no interest, boring.

thenos

BOBJACK_JACKBOB said:

Any thoughts on the post credit scenes(s) for Endgame? 

I'm pulling for the new avengers to go have Shawarma together. 

SumoLego

I think we are at the cusp of Marvel superhero overload.  Or atleast future 'underwhelming' success.

My guess is that there'll be grumbling that the MCU is declining if Endgame doesn't literally break every box office record.  Nevermind that it fuels a completely separate billion dollar marketing and media enterprise.

People may not like TLJ or Solo, but those were still profitable films.  I'm not going to worry until there's a Mummy-sized flop.  Executives are not going to complain about a $200M production that generates $450M every six months.

Until you insult your audience with total garbage (Transformers: The Last Knight) or just accept that a certain audience wants mindless action (Fast and Furious), these movies will keep coming.

It's also not a coincidence that James Gunn is back on GotG3.  There's your Phase 4 stuff - two Spider-Man sequels, GotG3, BP2, CM2, DS2, BW and maybe another Ant-Man.  And who knows - another Avengers movie?  After that you can expect some sort of Mutant Universe to be developed.

I'm also not convinced they will necessarily kill off original Avengers.  They can have smaller roles in future movies.  Who doesn't like money or being relevant?  

I hope CM passes WW as the highest grossing female superhero movie.  Only because WW is not the groundbreaking female lead it purports to be.  Frozen (and CM) is a much better story of female empowerment than WW.

SumoLego

Brainslugged said:
Disney threw away an easy $1B in revenue per year just because it couldn't (and still can't) acknowledge just how badly The Last Jedi f**ked up the sequel trilogy and fans' goodwill towards the brand.

Until Episode IX rakes in $2B because people are starved for original SW content.  And then everything will be back on for an annual Christmas Season Star Wars film...

We all derided Episode I, yet Episodes II and III did just fine, sold lots of tickets, merchandise and continued to elevate the value of SW.  And Episodes VII through IX exist.  And a couple of side-movie that generated billions of dollars also seem to have sneaked by...

jnscoelho

SumoLego said:

Only because WW is not the groundbreaking female lead it purports to be.  

For once, I totally agree with you. It suffered from the same as BP, you couldn't criticize it or you would be labelled a misogynist or whatever.
Still, it's better than most recent MCU movies.

klinton

Gah! It's one thing to be a fan of the dreck Marvel/Disney is churning out. It's quite another thing to spit on the cinematic comic adaptation masterpiece that is Wonder Woman! 

guachi

BOBJACK_JACKBOB said:

J0rgen said:

I don't want any end credit scene in Endgame either, but I expect there to be one. A lot of people, myself included are gonna be done with Marvel after this one, and not doing an end credit scene will add to the feeling of finality a lot of us are experiencing, so since they want to leave the door open for more, they should probably do one.

Why would you, and others, be done with Marvel after this film? Not trying to be confrontational but this is the first time I've heard anyone express this sentiment and I can't think of any reason why.

Fatigue, like another post said. It's the same reason TV shows eventually get cancelled. There's only so many stories you can pump out before nothing seems new. 

And then you get remakes (aka reboots) that don't pretend to do anything other than tell the same story over again. Sometimes the remakes work. I mean, the 1932 Mummy and the 1999 Mummy have basically the same story but, boy, are they really different in tone and presentation.

I love the Marvel movies and have seen all of them but two (Thor 1 & 2). But I eventually stopped reading comics and I won't feel bad if I eventually stop watching them. But, just like LEGO, there are always people for whom the movies will be new and exciting so I hope they continue telling stories new viewers can enjoy.

The_Rancor

Would it be controversial to say I quite enjoyed Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, most of Disney’s Star Wars movie content (except Force Awakens which I regard as Episode IV remastered) and still enjoyed superheroes in general? Probably, in this climate.

Also hoping to see Shazam when that comes out - but when it comes to comic book adaptations I’m still waiting on Dredd 2 (and definitely no risk of fatigue there).

SumoLego

klinton said:

...cinematic comic adaptation masterpiece...

I think I also have a problem with WW being of the same origin as Smurfette.

DC tries hard, but the movies are markedly terrible.  I'm starting to think it's the source material.  Anybody know if the Aquaman comics had an octopus playing a large bongo?

I like the Thor movies, if only because Thor actually has meaningful character growth.  He is definitely not the same vapid prince from the first film when he makes his return with Stormbreaker in Infinity War.  Nobody probably cares, but it boggles my mind that such a well-defined character exists in a silly comic book movie.  And it's friggin' Thor.

(I think DC could do the same by making a few tweaks to a few characters and just replicate the overall arc of MCU.)

klinton

SumoLego said:

klinton said:

...cinematic comic adaptation masterpiece...

I think I also have a problem with WW being of the same origin as Smurfette.

But... that is her story. It was, long before the Smurfs came along. 

VorpalRyu

SumoLego said:
We all derided Episode I, yet Episodes II and III did just fine, sold lots of tickets, merchandise and continued to elevate the value of SW.  And Episodes VII through IX exist.  And a couple of side-movie that generated billions of dollars also seem to have sneaked by...

Who's we kemosabe? I was happy with Ep I, while not as good as Ep II & III, it was still pretty good. Ep I was primarily about showing the politicking that was a critical cause of the Clone Wars, so of course the action was going to be dialed back a notch & have overall slower pacing, which is probably why most fans don't really like it. The same can't be said for the hatred that Disney SW has created.

SumoLego

I meant the general 'We'.  
(Jar Jar, CGI Yoda, Shmi, Jake Lloyd, inexplicable C-3PO, lack of Maul...) 

And I think this is a comparable amount of hatred to the new trilogy.  Don't you remember all of the anti-Hayden Christiansen nonsense?  As I ironically remember - purists wanted LucasFilm to remove Lucas from production of the movies.

Although I definitely get the sense TLJ is going to stand out as the oddball in the nine movies.  I'm sure there is plenty of regret in handing over Episode VIII to someone not JJ Abrams.

Baby_Yoda

I think much of the controversy surrounding both Captain Marvel and the current Star Wars trilogy is due to suspicion. When the mainstream audience of a franchise has only ever had male leads, then suddenly they decide to make their new, ultra-powerful hero a woman, a lot of people don't trust that there's no political motivation. The MCU has been establishing itself for ten years, and then another character is suddenly introduced right at the climax, and they're more powerful than any other, and they're part of what's thought to be an oppressed group socially... much of the audience was preparing to be lectured, regardless of whether that's a fair assumption. So, they were ready to be hostile, though they weren't yet.
For those who don't know, Brie Larson tweeted what was essentially a response to reviews of A Wrinkle in Time, believing that over-representation of white men in film criticism led to a skewed consensus. What she was getting at was that she wanted greater cultural diversity in that aspect, but what she actually wrote was something like, "This film was made for black women; it's not meant for white men." (not a direct quote.) Some people thought, Oh, yeah, fair point, while others thought, Wait, I'm a white dude! Why can't I watch it? Picture it like a chemical reaction: you've got a bit of harmless caesium, doing pretty much nothing to nobody. Someone drops it in a bit of water, also harmless, but you see, when the two combine... boom.

J0rgen

Spider-man: Far From Home images have leaked, and they look pretty good! Especially the Venezian one. (Despite wanting to get off the Marvel train I will probably still see new Spider-man and GotG movies, I just won't see all the **** the MCU spews out anymore.)