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Issue w/ Ferrari F40 Cracking

RebelegoRebelego Georgia, USAMember Posts: 171
edited September 2015 in Everything else LEGO
I had two pieces crack the other day as I built the F40.  I have never seen a crack develop as I put pieces together.  It's also in two places.  (See pic below)  Has anyone had this problem w/ their F40? Or any other set?  I'm assuming LEGO will send me replacement parts.  

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Comments

  • kiki180703kiki180703 Montreal, CanadaMember Posts: 1,044
    No I didn't have this problem on my ferrari.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Just checked mine and it looks fine. But wow is the issue getting bad if it literally happens on first connection while in your hands. And we're not talking about cheese wedges or 1x1 pieces, but rather a bow and slope brick. TLG needs to get a handle on this problem and disclose it to the public. 
    legomattyys4uAdzbadboy
  • HuwHuw Brickset Towers, Hampshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 6,546
    Wow, that's not good at all!

    I'm sure LEGO CS will be very interested in hearing about it. Apparently if you let them know the batch code from the stickers sealing the set they can track down exactly when, and on what machine, those particular parts were made so can investigate further.
    legomattLego_StarkhmellymelRainstorm26Adzbadboycatwrangler
  • akunthitaakunthita USAMember Posts: 1,032
    I haven't built this set, but I have run into this problem several times in the last few years with various 1 stud wide bricks. In my experience tan, light and dark gray are particularly bad. I have actually sent the parts to LEGO's customer service and all I got back was a standard form letter that they are very sorry and I can request replacement parts. I don't even bother calling about cheese-slopes any more, but on other parts I still do. It is becoming an increasingly common problem, and LEGO doesn't seem to do much about it. They will send you new parts that are also inferior quality. Take a look at this picture of the recently released Scooby Doo Mystery Machine: http://imgur.com/l1yX4X0. Just heartbreaking... :(
    madforLEGORainstorm26TheBigLegoskiAdzbadboy
  • Sethro3Sethro3 United StatesMember Posts: 819
    Things like this make me leery of ever buying another set. I was looking at my VW camper that has been on a shelf for the last 2 years since I've built it. There are many cracked pieces, mainly being 1x1 plates and bows. Very odd seeing since I've had tons of 1x4 arches and cheese slopes cracked.

    Best of luck with CS. They never replace my pieces.
  • MynattMynatt OH/NYMember Posts: 578
    I have had this issue happen to me on occasion with slope bricks.

    If over the phone CS doensnt get you new parts, try the online CS. Most of the time they can respond to you and also send you the parts.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,503
    edited September 2015
    Sethro3 said:
    Things like this make me leery of ever buying another set. I was looking at my VW camper that has been on a shelf for the last 2 years since I've built it. There are many cracked pieces, mainly being 1x1 plates and bows. Very odd seeing since I've had tons of 1x4 arches and cheese slopes cracked.

    Best of luck with CS. They never replace my pieces.
    I think LEGO CS eventually tunes out the consumer if they are constantly going to CS. It is sad really and shows that there is a growing shift from ensuring the customer is happy to saying 'oh well', we are making our money'. The shame of it all is if this really is occurring due to LEGO trying to save a buck  (IE saving plastic in the process by removing what may have been in the brick casting to stop such stuff) then that is just sad. If this is a formula type issue with the plastic itself then I think they have had quite an amount of time to either: fix the issue OR feel it will occur in which case they should just start adding more pieces the set to guess which parts are likely going to be under the most stress and crack. I guess it boils down to what costs more: Sending out replacement parts every time they have an issue with the sets, or including another practically whole set in case parts break in the built one. Between this and the stickers (which is more likely a sad quality issue to save a dollar when their stickers from even 10 years ago were better quality) I'm getting a sinking feeling with LEGO. I guess another question is do people see this issue with other manufacturers of building brick parts?
    Wonder how LEGO would feel if MB had better quality?

  • 77ncaachamps77ncaachamps Aspiring Time Traveler Stuck in the West (US)Member Posts: 2,440
    It seems like I've been noticing more cracking posts than in the past.

    Are they still using the same formula or starting to experiment with different ones?
    Since you're in Georgia, I wonder if the Mexican plant is the source.

    This doesn't bode well for Lego if not addressed.
  • BrikingBriking Dorset, UKMember Posts: 750
    Just checked my F40 and happy to report there are no cracks
  • SMCSMC UKMember Posts: 1,783
    Just checked my F40 and its still sealed in box, will look again tomorrow you can never be too careful.
    BumblepantsLegoboykiki180703SumoLegoGalactusDeMontes
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    This news is so disheartening.
  • DedgeckoDedgecko Seattle, WAMember Posts: 799
    I had never a cracked part when I was kid, now after getting back into it all, we had multiple cheese wedges crack from the mixel sets. Their ABS is cooling too fast or something.  Too much stress in the molded part.
  • RevBluesRevBlues Member Posts: 117
    edited September 2015
    Adding more fuel to the claims that TLG has serious QC issues at the moment - both in design and fabrication.  I built a wall out of 1x2 bricks last week that was as wavy as hell and with gaps you could slide a sheet of light-grade paper through - if it were made out of real bricks, the brickie would have been sacked.  And that's not to mention the three different shades of the supposedly same colour.

    Stop churning out new models every three days TLG and start spending more time making sure fewer sets don't have design faults or badly-manufactured parts.
    madforLEGO
  • DedgeckoDedgecko Seattle, WAMember Posts: 799
    The crash from their high is going to be glorious!  Except people keep rushing out to buy new stuff on day one.  A physical toy doesn't get a day-one patch like a new video game.  As more FOLS hold off on day one purchases, the greater chance we'll see of an impact made to how TLG does their business.
    alldarker
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,503
    Dedgecko said:
    The crash from their high is going to be glorious!  Except people keep rushing out to buy new stuff on day one.  A physical toy doesn't get a day-one patch like a new video game.  As more FOLS hold off on day one purchases, the greater chance we'll see of an impact made to how TLG does their business.
    Here is the problem though. Those 'first run sets' go no where. They sit on a shelf, so you are likely still going to get a bad one (if there is such a thing). All that can be done is submerge LEGO is CS complaints/requests for replacement parts and maybe they they will get the idea.
    Again I wonder If any other brands have this problem. Start putting in the CS complaints that MB does not seem to have this quality issue (unless they do, I do not know I have no MB) and maybe that will wake them up. Also people need to start bringing this up in the big brick conventions when LEGO execs visit them for QnA, and bring it up A LOT.
  • theLEGOmantheLEGOman UKMember Posts: 1,520
    SMC said:
    Just checked my F40 and its still sealed in box, will look again tomorrow you can never be too careful.
    But what will you do if the seals crack.
    SumoLegoDedgeckokiki180703
  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    I've posted before regarding cracked parts in lots of sets, including a Simpsons House that had so many cracks that I had TLG send me a whole new set (I did have to send mine back of course). I have had them replace ~150 cracked bricks from my Haunted House. This situation has not gotten better. Mostly 1xanythings in LBG, WHT, DBRN, PNK, LBLU, TAN. Some plates as well. Some colors suck as BLK, RED, BLU, YLW seem to be immune so far.

    My theory is that there is more residual internal stress which is either flow-induced or temperature induced which leads to fractures when exposed to environmental factors such as oil from skin, or uv exposure. My thought on why they have more residual internal stress now is that it could be caused by a change in manufacturing practice in order to speed up production. Although I am a Chemical Engineer, this is not my area of expertise and I could be off-base here. It could be solely a materials issue.

    I really hate this and if I can do anything about it I will. The new company I work for is based in Denmark and my boss has a relative who is a manufacturing engineer/manager at TLG. My boss knows about my love of Lego and has promised me that if it can be arranged I can visit him in Billund. If this happens, I will definitely bring this up with him.
  • bluedragonbluedragon United StatesMember Posts: 487
    There are now 2 monthly magazines aimed at the lego fan. If you read this, here's an idea: next time you are struggling  to fill the pages, instead of including another couple of set reviews, please consider a piece on quality issues.

    This would require some investigating and approaching TLG for their point of view but might be very informative and would set you at a different level as a publication.
  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    ^That's a very good idea. After talking with several CS reps, I just feel like they haven't really validated the problem. All I get is, "I'm sorry, please send the pieces back and we'll replace them for you." I just wish somewhere, somehow, TLG would say, "We recognize there is a issue here and although it's difficult to pin-point the cause, we are working on it. Please be patient and return any broken pieces for replacement."
  • RebelegoRebelego Georgia, USAMember Posts: 171
    I just called LEGO CS, was on hold for maybe 1 min. Rep picked up and explained the problem and the set #. She apologized for the pieces not being able to hold up when put together.  She said they will send me replacement parts ASAP.  One of the pieces is on back order until Wednesday, but will ship out at that point.  The rep was very nice and polite.  I had the part #'s on hand. She verified the pieces with a description.  Which was correct.  She apologized once more.  The phone call was 4 min long.  I thought I would be on hold for 10 min or so and would be connected to someone else for replacement parts, etc. It went a lot smoother than I anticipated.  I thought I would get a little flack since they were not shipped cracked and cracked during the build.  But I did not.  Though it is annoying this happened, it was very easy to rectify my problem.

    However, the bigger issue is with QC.  Like stated earlier by several of you, It can be that the plastic is cooling too fast, pieces are too thin, a bad formula, a bad batch, etc.  I can see why LEGO wouldn't want to admit there is a problem.  A large business like LEGO does not want to have a bad reputation of having inferior parts.  Especially since they have clawed their way out of near bankruptcy not too long ago.  I fear they will wait too long to rectify the QC problem and they will start losing customers.  I think there's a fine line between admitting an issue too early and spending millions that may not have been needed and waiting too long to admit it and lose millions.

    That may/may not make sense.  I know what I mean. ^^^ ;)
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    Lego could have choirs of angels singing and glitter raining down all around you as they send out your replacement bricks.

    That doesn't solve the problem that you had to call them in the first place.
    madforLEGOdougtskiki180703nychromastoneAdzbadboyBrickmanLegoboydatsunrobbie
  • RebelegoRebelego Georgia, USAMember Posts: 171
    Lego could have choirs of angels singing and glitter raining down all around you as they send out your replacement bricks.

    That doesn't solve the problem that you had to call them in the first place.
    That would've been worse. Glitter would send up the wife's red flags!  

    But yes.  It was very annoying to even have to call with this problem.
    dougtsMattDawson
  • ToddMyersToddMyers Cincinnati, OHMember Posts: 403
    Yet another piece of information that reaffirms my decision to exit the hobby.  If I wanted garbage bricks, I'd go buy megablocks.
  • PmhPmh netherlandsMember Posts: 128
    edited September 2015

    Have had this issue as well, with similar parts on my seacow. For me it severely reduced my reborn interest in lego and I now spend much less.

    Lego has sent me replacements parts everytime I asked for it, their service is truly excellent. No complains at all there. But the quality needs to be addressed.

    Maybe its due to lego,s success on the American market,they seem to have lower quality standards then the European audience and are more likely to accept faults like this. No offence intended btw, just an observation.

    I also noticed this focus on the American market in several other decisions from lego,for example the big printed pieces in the new starwards collection.

  • SithLord196SithLord196 Member Posts: 1,157
    I have only encountered one cracked piece so far thankfully.

    However, I have encountered many parts that are supposed to be the same color being a shade lighter or darker. 

    Considering the amount I've spent on Lego the last couple years it's making me take a step back. I just can't realistically spend as much money as I have been on a product that seems to now have such quality control issues. I had a list of sets I wanted to try and get before the end of the year.

    That list is now down to two major sets (Red Five and The Simpsons House) and the little holiday ones, plus the microfighters to get the last two posters.

    Hearing about all these cracked pieces is making me check my Palace Cinema and other sets that use cheese slopes and one stud tiles constantly though, as they seem to be the most likely to crack.
  • YodaliciousYodalicious DagobahMember Posts: 1,366
    I have to ask a maybe odd, but serious question to those of you experiencing an overload of cracked pieces...

    Where do you display the built models?

    I'm no scientist and am honestly asking for my own knowledge. I've had LEGO since 1979 and have never had a single brick crack or break that I didn't accidentally break myself. That said, this concerns me a lot. I wonder what is causing this. Obviously, quality issues are a big concern, but I also wonder if there are any factors...sun exposure, lighting, etc?
  • binaryeyebinaryeye USMember Posts: 1,734
    Pmh said:

    I also noticed this focus on the American market in several other decisions from lego,for example the big printed pieces in the new starwards collection.

    Why do big printed pieces suggest a focus on the American market?

    Hearing about all these cracked pieces is making me check my Palace Cinema and other sets that use cheese slopes and one stud tiles constantly though, as they seem to be the most likely to crack.
    All of the pieces I've had cracks in are 1xN bricks in Light Stone Gray. Usually 1x1s or 1x2s of the standard or Technic variety. I've never had a cheese slope or tile crack.
  • Rainstorm26Rainstorm26 Chicago Burbs USA (and sometimes Ireland)Member Posts: 1,004
    Given the descriptions above that indicate defects seem to be grouped in certain colors, I would think it might be more due to raw materials (ABS or dyes) than process conditions. 
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    @SithLord196 It's not the 1x1 tiles, but rather the 1x1 bricks and plates that are more likely to crack. I had this happen on a few white and tan 1x1 plates for my UCS Darth Maul bust used in the eyes, so were much more noticeable than usual.
  • SithLord196SithLord196 Member Posts: 1,157
    @BrickDancer Good to know. I thought I saw/heard somewhere that the tiles were an issue too, but I guess I was mistaken. I know the cheese slopes have been a big issue, as I have seen quite a few pictures of them being cracked.

    As for the cracked piece I did encounter, it came out of the box that way.
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 946
    edited September 2015
    My interest in Lego has diminished over the last year due to the quality issue.  I too am looking to exit the hobby and sell off what I have.  I'll just take on another hobby of interest. 
    77ncaachamps
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,102
    ^Then let me be the first to offer you a laughable low-ball offer for the best sets you have!
    MattDawson
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 946
    ^
    I'm chuckling now and waiting for your offer before an over-the-top laughter or a stern and serious facial expression considering your offer.
  • MattsWhatMattsWhat Studley, UKMember Posts: 1,643
    Am I right in assuming everyone in here is based in America? I haven't ever seen a brick crack that wasn't me (and thats only robot arms or minifig hands.  Thats out of the 40,000 bricks we have knocking around the house. Not loads but enough to be concerned about multiple cracks in the same set!
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,214
    No, we've had cracked cheese slopes (too many to count) in the UK. And a 1x1 brick, and Iron Man's legs too.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,727
    edited September 2015
    ^ Hands up for the first two.  Literally every single round 1x1 brick in my Market Street.  Every single one of them.  It became a 'watch this' as each got applied.
  • Mandz27Mandz27 ScotlandMember Posts: 36
    edited September 2015
    MattsWhat said:
    Am I right in assuming everyone in here is based in America? I haven't ever seen a brick crack that wasn't me (and thats only robot arms or minifig hands.  Thats out of the 40,000 bricks we have knocking around the house. Not loads but enough to be concerned about multiple cracks in the same set!
    Nope I'm UK and recently had to return a Simpsons House ( I ended up not replacing it ) and get 59 pieces replaced on The Fairground Mixer, a few Pieces of Cinderella's dream carriage and a few Minecrafts pieces.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,214
    I've never had a 2x1 cheese slope crack on me. When doing MOCs now, I try to avoid using 1x1s and use the 1x2s instead. It is just ridiculous how many 1x1s crack. Some as soon as you put them in place, others appear overnight, some after a couple of weeks.

    SumoLego
  • RebelegoRebelego Georgia, USAMember Posts: 171
    This is the first time I've had the cracking issue. Not 1 cheese slope I own has cracked ever. (Knock on wood) I did notice a technic cog that was cracked the other day. But it is 25 years old from #715-1. I'll give that a pass. 
  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    edited September 2015
    Here is a list of the some of the pieces on my Haunted House that have been replaced by Lego. Sorry for the format, I just copy and pasted. You'll notice most everything is a 1x something.

    How many?

    Part number

    Technical name

    1

    300501

    BRICK 1X1

    3

    300401

    BRICK 1X2

    1

    4558952

    BRICK 1X1 W. 1 KNOB

    1

    4620761

    BRICK 1X6 W/INSIDE BOW

    1

    302301

    PLATE 1X2

    2

    307001

    FLAT TILE 1X1

    4

    4249563

    PLATE 1X2 WITH SLIDE

    40

    4521948

    BRICK 1X1

    7

    6003805

    BRICK 1X1X5

    9

    6009656

    BRICK 1X1 W. 1 KNOB

    2

    4623297

    ROOF TILE 1X2 INV.

    22

    4211242

    BRICK 1X1

    7

    4211180

    PALISADE BRICK 1X2

    12

    4211389

    BRICK 1X1

    9

    4211564

    BRICK 1X2X2

    7

    4558953

    BRICK 1X1 W. 1 KNOB

    6

    4550325

    PALISADE BRICK 1X2

    9

    4179576

    COLUMN 1X1X6

    1

    4211437

    ROOF TILE 1X2 INV.

    1

    4618874

    BRICK 1X6 W/INSIDE BOW


  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 12,394
    SMC said:
    Just checked my F40 and its still sealed in box, will look again tomorrow you can never be too careful.
    But what will you do if the seals crack.
    I have a box of replacement seals, we can talk...
    kiki180703
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2015
    With all the issues you've been having @brew across so many pieces and so many sets, I'm wondering if there's something about the New Mexico air.  Perhaps the dry heat accelerates the cracking.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    edited September 2015
    Funny enough I was about to mention whether we were able to see if there's any correlation between the amount of cracking and the location of the people reporting this

    i can honestly say that I have seen very very little cracking in my rather large collection up here in the temperate Pacific Northwest, although I will admit I haven't done a thorough inspection of all my display sets so perhaps I have more cracking then I realize
    madforLEGO
  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    ^Maybe. But it is definitely related to newer sets. I've got sets back to the 70s and only the relatively recent ones have this issue. I don't keep them in direct sun light as the uv index here is pretty high (5000 ft altitude). You're right about how dry it is here though. I thought TLG did testing on every design among which is a thermal test to ensure it stays together under 'hot' conditions. Surely if cracking occurred there, flags would be raised.
  • ToddMyersToddMyers Cincinnati, OHMember Posts: 403
    @Brew - Are you near White Sands?  Maybe all of that residual radioactivity is making your plastic all brittle ;)

    That is crazy about the Haunted House, though -- can't say that I had a single piece crack in that build. Out of the 600+ sets that I've owned and built, I can count the number of cracked pieces that I have noticed on one hand.

    You don't routinely wash your LEGO pieces or otherwise expose them to other chemicals, do you?  Just seems like there has to be something environmental going on.
  • Sethro3Sethro3 United StatesMember Posts: 819
    Environment does make sense, however it doesn't fit for me either. I have tons of sets with cracked pieces also. I live in Nebraska, so cold winters is about the extreme here. However, other members of my LUG said they haven't had any cracking and we all live in the same city. So I dont' know. Environment is a logical factor at play, but I don't know what else is going on. However, I don't know how many of the same sets are owned where I've noticed cracking and they haven't. One member did mention their Iron Man legs cracked like mine, but that is linked to polycarbonate 1x1 and not environment.
  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    The only cleaning on Lego bricks that I have done is to use a microfiber cloth to remove dust when I disassemble for storage. I do think the trigger for the cracking is environment related, but nothing particular to my environment per se that seems out of the ordinary.

    I live in the components manufacturing world and there are a few laws of quality that I live by. One is that manufacturers don't make A product, they make a distribution of products. That is, if you sell many widgets of the exact same design, there will always be a distribution that leave your warehouse in terms of their critical specifications. How big of a distribution is determined by manufacturing variability which includes both raw material variability and process variability. This is why some subscribe to the simple definition of quality as the inverse of variation (Q=1/V). The adoption of this philosophy is basically why the Japanese auto market dominated in terms of quality.

    What I'm getting at here is an explanation of why many of you are not seeing this problem. Somewhere in TLG manufacturing process there been either a change that has caused an increase in variability or a shift in the mean to cause a certain percentage of parts to become more susceptible to environmental stress fracturing.

    The facts are:
    1) older Lego bricks didn't have this problem
    2) only a certain percentage of people are seeing this
    3) certain colors are affected more that others
    4) certain pieces are affected more that others
    5) certain people are affected more than others

    Fact 1 demonstrates there has been a change.
    Fact 2 indicates what I was saying above about a shift in either variability or the mean
    Fact 3 indicates a raw material factor
    Fact 4 is just an artifact of the piece design

    The last point is the most challenging and interesting point, from a statistical point of view. It could be that those people have the right environmental conditions to trigger a stress crack more frequently or the distribution network creates a bias because they are more likely to get sets originating from the manufacturing site with the problem.

    Yes, this is very troubling to me and I have thought about it way more than I would have liked to.
    dougtsbluedragonkiki180703Sethro3
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    I think there is no doubt that the problem is far worse than it used to be.  I would wager that the continued removal of ABS from many of their piece designs (thinner walls, hollow tubes, etc) is probably a significant contributor.

    I'm guessing LEGO knows their quality is down.  I'm also guessing that they see the current issues as well with in acceptable range (for them), because at the end of the day, the only people probably giving it much notice or complaint are us hardcore AFOL collector's who buy, use, and inspect unholy amounts of pieces every year.  Just like they don't design sets for us, and repeatedly remind us that their core audience is 6-12 year olds, so too it probably is with regards to quality.  the "average" LEGO consumer probably gets 5-10 sets per year, build, them, play with them a bit, then throw them in a bin for awhile.  if a piece cracks, they don't care much.  Their parents mostly likely never even know. and 9/10 parents that do find out, won't bother to report it to LEGO.

    So, profits are up, and I'm guessing they have done the math and realize they are saving more money by shaving ABS then they are losing in sending out replacement pieces on the Customer Service line.
    madforLEGObinaryeyeEric
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,214
    ^ that's all very true. My kids have cracked cheese slopes. It doesn't stop them playing with them, or even caring about it.
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Brew said:

    the distribution network creates a bias because they are more likely to get sets originating from the manufacturing site with the problem.
    It's probably a lot more complicated than that. Although a set is obviously packed in a particular plant, the parts come from many. And whilst a set packed in one plant may generally get a particular part from one source, that may well be switched to another on a short- or long-term basis.

    It may sound counter-intuitive to ship billions of parts backwards and forwards around the planet but that's what happens. We hear some of the evidence. When the Tokio Express tossed 5 million LEGO bricks (loose bricks, not sets) into the Atlantic, it was heading from Europe to New York. A lot of printing is done in Kladno - on bricks made hundreds of miles away in Billund or Nyíregyháza. People have talked about environmental differences - what happens environmentally on any of those journeys is anyone's guess and is probably not recorded.
    MattDawson
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