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Help with Holiday Train 10173

brclark82brclark82 Member Posts: 195
edited November 2011 in Collecting
So I've been looking into this for a while and am very confused. Are the items on this page compatible? http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=K10194-1
If not what motor and tracks can I use to motorize it?
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Comments

  • Rollo_TomassiRollo_Tomassi Member Posts: 113
    That train was designed for the older 9v tracks and the 10153 motor.
    But I'm sure there's some way to use the newer Power Functions. I'm not that proficient at modding though. Someone else might know.
  • Rollo_TomassiRollo_Tomassi Member Posts: 113
    edited November 2011
    Doing a tiny bit of Bricklink research, I don't see why you couldn't use the 88002 wheels instead of the older 9v 10153 ones, and then use the current Power Functions stuff.
  • brclark82brclark82 Member Posts: 195
    That's what I was thinking but this will be my first experience with any Lego train so if there is anybody that could confirm for sure I would appreciate it. I would really like to be able to use the new power functions stuff so I could swap it between trains depending on what is currently built.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    The power functions motor and the 9v motor are the same size physically so you can interchange them. The battery box for the PF should fit into the tender car without too much of a problem. The 10173 engine is very small. You will have a hard time putting it into the engine. You might be able to put it in another car to run the battery box. It all boils down to which tracks you have. If you have PF, then I would try to make that work. If you have 9v, which would be much easier to put in, I would use that platform.
  • brclark82brclark82 Member Posts: 195
    So I obviously have no idea what I'm doing...The motor will fit in the engine, the battery box will fit in the tender car, what else do I need? Also, will I need the 88002 or 10153 wheels as well or do these come with the train (I haven't opened it yet)
  • brclark82brclark82 Member Posts: 195
    One other thing. If I get 3677 will I have all the PF parts I need to work with 10173? Thanks for all your help.
  • Rollo_TomassiRollo_Tomassi Member Posts: 113
    I think so. 3677 has the wheels, battery box, IR receiver, and the remote control. You'll also need a bunch of AAA batteries.
    Of course, then the 3677 won't have PF, but you gotta make sacrifices.
    Also, looking at the design of the Holiday train you MIGHT need the 8882 power box instead. It's the smaller cylinder style designed for the Emerald Night. But I'm totally speculating on that and the Red Cargo train's PF stuff might be enough.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    The 8882 motor is used in the EN and the 10173 was not designed to use this motor. The PF parts from the 3677 will have all of the parts you need for the 10173. The motors for PF and 9V are the same size but are different designs internally. The wheels from the PF are put together when assembling the train. The 9V wheels on the motor are NOT removable. The PF motor will go under the engine and the battery box will go in the tender I don't know where you will want to put the IR unit I haven't tried doing this yet. In the original design of the 10173, the 9V motor was designed to be put under the tender but with the stud on the motor I don't think you can put the motor under the tender and the battery box in the tender at the same time.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Digging up an old thread to get some insight on the proper 9v parts needed to motorize the Holiday Train #10173 . I'm a complete noob when it comes to trains, so any help would be appreciated.

    Assuming I do not have any needed parts and will buy all starting with #10153. What are the other components I will need? And which are the proper tracks to use? Is there an alternative choice to #10153?
  • flyernutflyernut Member Posts: 12
    edited November 2012
    Hi, I'm doing the same thing this year. I saw a link on the Eurobrick forum where the builder put all the pf parts in the caboose. I'll be going that route. I'll try to dig it up. I'm not using 9v though, unfortunately.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited November 2012
    ^Feels like a steep learning curve when it comes to trains. So my naive questions starts with what the main differences 'performance-wise' are between 9v versus PF? While considering all parts such as motor, controller, track, battery(?). Not to mention challenges in fitment for the PF parts onto a 9v-designed train.
  • GrogallGrogall Munich, GermanyMember Posts: 159
    @BrickDancer here are the official instructions to add a 9V motor to the Holiday Train

    http://assets.lego.com/bigdownloads/buildinginstructions/U-4086.pdf

    If I was going to make it use PF I would build a box car for it in the same colors as the train and again add the motor to the tender.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited November 2012
    ^Awesome @Grogall ! Thanks for the instructions. Looks like it is perfect fit without extra pieces needed. But how does the battery pack, wiring & controller with yellow knob connect into it all?

    Also how can you tell if a track set is going to be Old Gray or New Bley in color, since BL lists and have Bley as alternate? Or do all track pieces come in only Old Gray?
  • GrogallGrogall Munich, GermanyMember Posts: 159
    edited November 2012
    @BrickDancer The controller with the yellow knob is the 9V speed regulator.
    This is plugged into an electrical outlet. so no batter pack is needed, 9V track came in Old gray as well as bley so you will have to ask what they have! bley will be more common!
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited November 2012
    ^As you can tell, today is first day of class in 'Trains 101' for me lol. So basically all I'll need is the 9v motor #10153 and regulator set #4548? No other wiring or parts (aside from track)?

    What if the tracks are still in sealed box, is there any way you can predict the color? For example, do they come in different box packaging but with same Set #?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-LEGO-SYSTEM-Electric-9V-Train-Tracks-2-Unopened-Boxes-/321022601444?pt=Building_Toys_US&hash=item4abe7028e4

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LEGO-4520-9V-ELECTRIC-CURVED-TRAIN-TRACK-/261130644854?pt=Building_Toys_US&hash=item3ccc996d76

    Is the first 'System' track set sure to be Old Gray, while the second 'World City' would be in Bley? Is the System set a mixture of old and new gray? While the 'World City' is only Bley due to its release year?

    Thanks again for your insight and help @Grogall!
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    ^ The system box will be old dark grey for sure, the World City box could be either. They changed colors near the end of the 9V era so from my experience, the old grey is much more common than the new dark bley. I wouldn't buy new though, buying used is much cheaper especially curved. They are a dime a dozen. If you want new, the World City box is reasonably priced.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^Thanks for clarification @oldtodd33 , that was helpful in understanding the track differences. I'm putting the knowledge to work tonight in hopes that Santa's train will be 'rounding the Winter Village in time for Christmas vacation. Much appreciated to both you and @Grogall =)
  • PhoneboothPhonebooth USMember Posts: 1,430
    @brickdancer - I'd love to see it when it's finished as I have some delusions thoughts of trying something similar :)
  • bmwlegobmwlego Long Island, New YorkMember Posts: 768
    I've got the same thing going on in my basement around 2 6ft folding tables. I set up all of the Winter Village sets and have the train going around the village. Building the cottage this week and should have it done by the weekend.

    I built a compatible passenger train for this set as well and might build another. I LOVE this Holiday Train. It is the first LEGO train I owned and it makes an appearance each winter since I moved out of a small apartment back in '08. Add this to the Winter Village and it makes for a cute little display.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Is Train Connection Wire #10078 needed to connect the power between regulator and track? Or is it already included with #4548?
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    ^ If you are buying a complete 4548 then it is included. If you are buying used from Ebay or Bricklink make sure it is included.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Thanks for confirming @oldtodd33, you just saved me some $. =)
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    bmwlego said:

    I've got the same thing going on in my basement around 2 6ft folding tables. I set up all of the Winter Village sets and have the train going around the village. Building the cottage this week and should have it done by the weekend.

    Are you using baseplates to hold the tracks in place? Or do they just sit on top of the table without being clutched down? If sitting free, does the track tend to stay firmly in place with the train running around or does it shift about?

    Just figured it would take 8 XL Baseplates to hold the oval track I have in mind which should be 30"x60" (16 Curved with 16 Straight). That comes out to $120 RRP for the plates alone! So trying to see if this is necessary/recommended to begin with. This is all ending up much more expensive than I thought to get a working 9v system going.
  • bmwlegobmwlego Long Island, New YorkMember Posts: 768
    The tacks do move slightly when not on baseplates so I'd recommend using them. It isn't a waste of money to buy baseplates as you can build with them again after the holiday but I do see your point about this being more costly than originally planned.
  • forumreaderforumreader Member Posts: 97
    An alternative might be to use felt or some other covering under the track to keep it in place. My tracks don't move at all on the carpet; I could see a clutchy cloth tablecloth or something keeping the track steady.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    edited November 2012
    ^^^ If you wanted to you could screw them down to the table. That's what the holes in the track are for.
    Andor
  • LegoMyLegoLegoMyLego Member Posts: 1
    To give life to the Holiday Train using Power Functions you need the following:
    1. Battery Box (rechargeable or AAA)
    2. Motorized wheels
    3. IR receiver
    4. Remote
    5. about 15 minutes

    Do the following:
    1. Put the battery box into the Passenger Car towards the front - do not have it cover the middle of the 3 holes (remove people - they can go in the caboose if you want them to still ride in the train)
    2. Put the motorized wheels on the front end of the passenger car, under the battery box (weight improves traction)
    3. Run cable from wheels up through floor and connect to IR receiver placed near rear door of car.
    4. Connect IR receiver to battery box (tuck in the wires and use elastic bands to keep neat)
    5. Make the non-motorized wheels on passenger car only two wheels instead of 3.
    6. Replace roof on car and you are all set.

    Tip: behind the Passenger car, link the toy car, then tree car then caboose... I found the original configuration (tree car then toy car) kept making the train stick on corners.
    kylejohnson11
  • DaveBeyDaveBey Member Posts: 44
    If you go the 9V route for 10173, I believe you will need to source the two black 1x4 plates shown in the directions Grogoll posted.

    Since you mentioned this if your first LEGO train, Power Functions is probably the way to go since the current sets all are Power Functions-based and track is cheaper.
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 947
    I think I'm the second or third person to bump this, but even after all the great advice in the thread I'm still on the fence about Power Functions versus 9v. I'm thinking of BL'ing 10173 and I'm trying to get a handle on the ultimate costs.

    It seems like the 9v system is tidier, given that the train was designed for it - what I gather is that less modifications are needed to motorise the train. But PF has cost efficiency going for it; the straight 9v tracks are expensive. I'm worried that if the WV line keeps going, I'll want to keep expanding the train tracks. With 9v straight tracks averaging approximately €25 for 8 tracks on BL, that could end up being a costly expansion (whatever about expanding it, I'm not sure one set is enough to get the train around the current village).

    If anyone can weigh in an opinion I'm all ears, thanks :)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,391
    Very costly. I went with 9V track but have been using power functions on the track of late. What I have found is that that over time the train loses power, even with a fully charged battery. Also, I have noticed that the engine has been slipping here and there, especially with a small grade. I NEVER had that problem with a 9V Engine.
  • hewmanhewman Member Posts: 90
    One potential solution is converting regular PF track to 9V track by using metal tape. I'm sure a quick google search will bring up how to do it. From memory it's pretty simple. It involves a trip to the hardware store and some scissors.
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 946
    ^^
    Seems very simple and cheap. Still...as a purist, I prefer true 9V tracks. Nonetheless, this is a cheap alternative.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    @Steve_J_OM You are correct, fewer mods are required to use the 9V platform. You are also correct that the PF has cost going for it. Given the circumstances, I would go for the PF. Reasons being that it is cheaper right now and probably later, the 9V motors are only going to get harder and more expensive to replace. If like @Pitfall69 said, the motor weakens after an extended amount of play time, just get a couple of motors from Lego ( they're only $14, you could buy 3 of them for the price of a used 9V motor right now ) and change them out as they get hot and slow down. Plus you don't have to try putting metal tape on the PF track, an option that would be a frustrating experience with children around to say the least.
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 947
    Thanks everyone. @oldtodd33 that is a good point; I had been concerned about buying more tracks to expand the railway line, but potentially having to replace the 9v motor had not occured to me.
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 947
    As a follow up question, is this PF start kit enough to get the Holiday Train up and running? http://shop.lego.com/en-IE/LEGO-Power-Functions-Motor-Set-8293

    I've been researching PF modifications all morning, and it is honestly double dutch to me. I downloaded the instructions for the Emerald Night, which uses components not included in the set I linked to above - would motorising the Holiday Train be similar enough to motorising the EN?
  • ColoradoBricksColoradoBricks Denver, CO, USAMember Posts: 1,642
    @Steve_J_OM, the EN was a bit of an odd ball in its motorization, it would be similar to #10219 Maersk Train or 10233 Horizon Express. Kits like #5003540 can show you what is needed.
  • PeteMPeteM Gallifrey (near Bristol)Member Posts: 407
    edited July 2014
    I've just put together a bricklist of the essentials, though not sure if it's published yet: http://brickset.com/sets/list-10993

    If not, the basics to get you going are:

    #88000 - battery box (there is rechargeable version (#8878) with a transformer (#8887), but those will set you back over £60!)
    #88002 - Train motor
    #8884 - IR receiver
    #8879 - remote control

    The #8293 set is not really suitable for trains (it lacks the infrared controls) and, as Coloradobricks says, the Emerald Night is unique in official Lego Tain sets for being powered by a standalone motor transmitting power to driver wheels, rather than the more usual motor unit.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited July 2014
    The problems with the "plug & play" motor #88002 is that it's relatively weak, it does not fit well into anything but a modern diesel-electric engine look and it has that annoying electronic squeal. That said, it's quick to install (especially in trains it's designed for: Maersk, Horizon) and doesn't take up much space.

    A motor + gearing system (like on the EN) results in at least 2x the power for pulling a steam train. It's completely worth the effort in my book, assuming your engine is big enough to hide the motor. The "official" holiday train is not, but it could be modified to handle it and still retain the classic look (or just make it a bigger and badder personal version like I would).
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,391
    The problem I have with Power Functions is that my train is suspended 8 feet in the air and it is a pain to keep getting up there and turning on the battery. With 9V; I can just turn the dial.
    kekekeevantylerTheLoneTensor
  • waxwingwaxwing Member Posts: 4
    Hi. Total train noob. Just rediscovered legos cause I have kids. I've read this thread, and still have some questions. Are the old 9v wheels compatible with the PF system? Has anyone from earlier in the thread re-bricked the 10173 and converted it to PF successfully. I'm in the process of finding the cheapest way to get all of the pieces. I can't believe this is possible. Amazing.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    @waxwing The 9V and PF both use the same wheels, just not the same motor and the wheels don't come off of the 9V motor like the PF motor does. All lego track is the same width no matter what year it was made.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2014
    @waxwing - in furthering @oldtodd33's comments, PF trains can run on all rails, but 9V trains (9Vmotors) can only run on 9V tracks because of the electrical conductivity. 9V track and non-9V track can be joined together with no issues. 9V tracks are very expensive on the secondary market, but ME Models just completed a successful kickstarter program to manufacture 9V compatible rails. Here is the link:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/memodels/me-models-railway-system

    Starting from scratch, I'd go with the PF options. They are cheaper, much more readily availalbe and in current production. I had a significant 9V collection prior to it being discontinued, so I have made sure that I have only 9V track that can accomodate both 9V and PF. I didn't like PF at first, but it has grown on me. I recently contributed to the SBrick kickstarter and can't wait to get my shipment and use that in my layout!

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sbrick/sbrick-smart-way-to-control-all-your-lego-creation

  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,436
    But is the LEGO 9 volt track really much more expensive than what I have seen the ME track sold for? I'm guessing it has gone down in price, but the last time I checked they were pretty even in terms of cost (even with after market costs)
  • waxwingwaxwing Member Posts: 4
    Thanks everyone. What I'm hearing is.... Basically if I buy the parts list for the 10173, I can run it as a PF train. I don't have any track, motors, etc... so it seems to make the most sense to start with the current system.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    You have heard correctly, that's what I would do. Watch out for those white window frames though, this is the cheapest BL seller with enough for the train. http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=legobasar&itemID=2374983
    waxwingPitfall69
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,436
    oldtodd33 said:

    You have heard correctly, that's what I would do. Watch out for those white window frames though, this is the cheapest BL seller with enough for the train. http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=legobasar&itemID=2374983

    Yeah, either spend a fortune for ten of those or if you do not care about the EXACT parts, get this version instead http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=4033

    NOTE: They will NOT be accurate to the set, but serve the same purpose (and hold train glass) if you are just looking for a set for yourself. If selling it at a later date you will want to remember the substitution though to note it when selling as those will not be the original window frames
    Pitfall69
  • ktsamktsam UKMember Posts: 19
    Hi everyone

    I'm another complete train noob who's wondering what's the best way to get the Holiday Train on a track!

    I've read all the info already given in this thread but I'm still a bit confused!

    Call me crazy but I'm not especially worried about getting the train moving by motor. What I'm picturing is just having a track that I can set out with the other Winter Village sets around it.

    So, what exactly do I need to achieve this? 9V track or newer track? And is there anything else I need to buy to add to the train so it will fit properly on the track and be able to be pushed along by hand if we do want to move it?

    Hope all this makes sense!
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    @ktsam - If you are going to piece the train together on your own, then you will have to power it. (If you are buying an real copy, it should come with a 9V motor, 9V track and a power regulator). However, if you are piecing it together on your own, you will need to decide whether buy a 9V system second hand as they are discontiued (this would include 9V track, a 9V motor and 9V power regulator). While this is true to the original model, if you don't care about being 100% accurate, I'd go with a PF setup. The PF track, motors and controls are available on the LEGO shop at home site.
    Pitfall69
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,427
    @ktsam If you just want to put a 10173 together and put it on track without power you will probably have to go to Bricklink and piece it together from scratch. You should buy the Power Functions track from either Lego, Bricklink or Ebay. Keep in mind that the original instructions are $60 to $80 on Ebay.
    Pitfall69
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