any idea what the 2015 winter village set is?

jdylak

I don't get all the gripes about now not having to pay inflated resellers prices. I put my spare on eBay as an auction and it went for $160. I didn't make anyone pay a high price.

dragonhawk

jdylak said:

I don't get all the gripes about now not having to pay inflated resellers prices. I put my spare on eBay as an auction and it went for $160. I didn't make anyone pay a high price.

You should have waited until #10249 was released to the public before selling the old one to test that theory :D

tamamahm

binaryeye said:

tamamahm said:

Anyone interested in the winter theme would probably buy a brand new set.
On the flip, with the toy shop, you have those sales minus your customers that have it already. 

You're assuming everyone that will buy the Toy Shop would have instead bought any other Winter Village set.

I think more people are likely to identify with the concept of a holiday toy shop than most other buildings that could fit into the theme. While someone with all of the previous sets in the series might be interested in a candy shop or train station, the first-time buyer might not be. LEGO is more popular now than it was when the Toy Shop was first released. It's entirely possible the market for a re-released Toy Shop is larger than the market for a completely new set.

Actually, my assumption is that I personally do not subscribe to the theory that Lego, is so unimaginative, that they couldn't possibly come up with a set that would sell better than a revamp....a revamp for a line that puts out only one set a year. Yes, I do assume that Lego has the ability to make a well-done set that would entice those that would have bought a Toy Shop to instead buy a brand new winter set. 


It is why I qualified with 'well-done'. 

Do I think Toy shop would do better than the Winter market they put out? Probably, but I also do not consider the market a well-done set. Do I think a well-done new winter set would sell better? Yup.

Now, I do completely agree that my above assumption could be wrong, because yes, they did put out some 'eh' sets in the winter line. At the same time,  we do not know the directive Lego designers receive... is it to make sets that will sell better than the last sets in a theme, or make a set that will sell and that makes the theme more cohesive and explore various facets of a theme or something else.
 

TigerMoth

A variation on a few suggestions.

I already said that I thought it might be difficult to create another Winter Village set. It rather depends how TLG see the theme. Sure, you can add all sorts of things, but they may not have wanted to go in any of those directions. If that was so, they might've been intending to kill off the series.

However, there's been quite a bit of talk about re-releasing collectibles - like Cafe Corner and this set But talk doesn't turn into profits. So rather than just kill off the Winter Village line, TLG use it, one last time, to see what happens if they release modified retired collectibles. It would be a lot less risky to do it with Toy Shop than Cafe Corner, because it's only available for a short space of time, and it's smaller. For this set, the changes almost seem contrived, but for Cafe Corner, there have been quite a few comments that it would have to be updated. Properly. So they tried that too.

Market research? The new set might actually be the market research.

BrickDancer

^I hope you're right and I hope TLG get's burned bad on this one.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

I still have faith in @Grogall ! I say watch this space...

UncleHerriot

Customer Service at Lego confirmed to me today that there would be no new Winter Village set this year, just this re-worked Toy Shop. I asked if they could produce an add-on pack comprised of the new elements in the new set, so that collectors could maintain the integrity of their collection without having to buy a 90% duplicate set, to which they responded that they liked the idea, but did not anticipate such a pack being available this year. I have now asked them to provide a parts list for the differences between the 2 sets, but if they don't, hopefully some kind person will publish such a list here!

ryjay

I like the rehash and I hope it is successful. It's kinda like an end and a restart all at the same time.

SumoLego

^ Watch out for rotten fruit being hurled in your direction!

ryjay

.....and if people actually could see me smiling and chucklin' a bit at how upset they get over things like this, who know what they'd want to hurl at me.

madforLEGO

UncleHerriot said:

Customer Service at Lego confirmed to me today that there would be no new Winter Village set this year, just this re-worked Toy Shop. I asked if they could produce an add-on pack comprised of the new elements in the new set, so that collectors could maintain the integrity of their collection without having to buy a 90% duplicate set, to which they responded that they liked the idea, but did not anticipate such a pack being available this year. I have now asked them to provide a parts list for the differences between the 2 sets, but if they don't, hopefully some kind person will publish such a list here!

LEGO can either give people a small parts pack, or sell them a whole other set?
Wonder what the company will choose. :wink: 
I assume you will find out the differences whether from some nice soul here (maybe @Huw will do a review and note the differences between old and new), or when LEGO will release the instructions in pdf format.

Rainstorm26

ryjay said:

.....and if people actually could see me smiling and chucklin' a bit at how upset they get over things like this, who know what they'd want to hurl at me.

Watch out for the black helicopter.

monkyby87

I have to say, I haven't seen this much negativity towards Lego in a while...I may have to take a break from the boards for a while.

madforLEGO

To be fair I think LEGO has 'earned' our ire. They have been making some questionable moves and many are saying it is OK because they are doing so well. I'm sure many would have thought that in the early to mid 90's as well. Sorry, everything is not 'awesome' for many reasons, this WV toy shop redo thing is only the latest in 'huh?' moves that LEGO has pulled IMO.

Bumblepants

Introducing the Winter Village Outhouse! Drop your yule logs in style with this all new set for 2015! Dump out the bricks into a nice pile before building a Winter Lego set that doesn't stink. $59.99

oldtodd33

^ I might actually buy that set if there was a cypress tree in it.

madforLEGO

Bumblepants said:

Introducing the Winter Village Outhouse! Drop your yule logs in style with this all new set for 2015! Dump out the bricks into a nice pile before building a Winter Lego set that doesn't stink. $59.99

The sad thing is the Cypress tree is the most expensive part there. Likely more expensive than the collection of the other parts.

Shib

I like the suspicious piece of yellow snow by the door

Briking

^ hahahaha. Hadn't spotted that.

monkyby87

madforLEGO said:

To be fair I think LEGO has 'earned' our ire. They have been making some questionable moves and many are saying it is OK because they are doing so well. I'm sure many would have thought that in the early to mid 90's as well. Sorry, everything is not 'awesome' for many reasons, this WV toy shop redo thing is only the latest in 'huh?' moves that LEGO has pulled IMO.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but what are some other 'huh' moves?  Maybe i'm out of touch, or I don't make Lego my life, but I'm not sure what else they've done that's really perplexing.  And why is it sad that the tree is more expensive than the other parts?

madforLEGO

monkyby87 said:

madforLEGO said:

To be fair I think LEGO has 'earned' our ire. They have been making some questionable moves and many are saying it is OK because they are doing so well. I'm sure many would have thought that in the early to mid 90's as well. Sorry, everything is not 'awesome' for many reasons, this WV toy shop redo thing is only the latest in 'huh?' moves that LEGO has pulled IMO.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but what are some other 'huh' moves?  Maybe i'm out of touch, or I don't make Lego my life, but I'm not sure what else they've done that's really perplexing.  And why is it sad that the tree is more expensive than the other parts?

Exclusives ban in US, PaB walls having half of their stock replaced by monthly builds that few want (also taking control out of the hands of those store employees that knew how to fill the wall with good parts), releasing a ton of Exosuits, but only a comparably few Research institutes, CMFs going to 3.99 USD per pack (but I can get a polybag garbage truck for 3.99) these changes to the monthly build rules or terms at LEGO stores that folks have talked about, poor quality of stickers and parts and LEGOs apparent acceptance of this. I'm sure I am forgetting a few others. It is also sad, IMO, that LEGO cannot produce a new Cypress tree for new sets, when they now sell for 15-20 dollars in the aftermarket.

TheLoneTensor

@monkyby87 I thought you were going to take a break from the boards because it's all negative up in here.

As for the other "huh?" moves, what @madaboutlego said, plus banning folks from [email protected]  You don't have to "make Lego your life" to know about these things on the boards either.

BrickDancer

1. Continued denial of decreasing part quality.
2. 'No Discount' policy for US (not sure what other countries this may apply to).
3. Discontinued Grab Bags with a lame excuse.
4. Rehashing valuable theme sets (Toy Shop, X-Wing)
5. Ever increasing ratio of price to parts for sets (City Shuttle, most SW, Smaug set)
6. Banning of VIP shoppers without notice if suspected of reselling.
7. Unstated removal of free promos with [email protected] orders.
8. Increasing limitations and restrictions when it comes to MMMB events.

There's more situations and examples I'm sure. But these have been the bigger ones in my view.

madforLEGO

BrickDancer said:

1. Continued denial of decreasing part quality.
2. 'No Discount' policy for US (not sure what other countries this may apply to).
3. Discontinued Grab Bags with a lame excuse.
4. Rehashing valuable theme sets (Toy Shop, X-Wing)
5. Ever increasing ratio of price to parts for sets (City Shuttle, most SW, Smaug set)
6. Banning of VIP shoppers without notice if suspected of reselling.
7. Unstated removal of free promos with [email protected] orders.
8. Increasing limitations and restrictions when it comes to MMMB events.

There's more situations and examples I'm sure. But these have been the bigger ones in my view.

Yeah, I meant exclusive sales ban in US, not exclusives ban, also forgot about the increasing cost of sets compared to what is in them.

BrickDancer

^Yea forgot about the PaB wall change that was certainly not favorable.

Plus the ever increasing price of CMF's from their original $1.99 to now $3.99 as if production costs have doubled in a few years. That one hurt a lot and is very obvious what they like to do when they know their fan/customer/money bag is hooked and bent over a barrel.

thedingman5

^^^ I'm kind of glad I came out of my Dark Ages after all these things disappeared.  I guess my expectations are set much, much lower than those of you that have been at this more than one year.

Also, as a bit of a "Corporate" person, I really don't expect anything "nice" or "generous" out of a Company.  Wonderfully interesting to read all the differing viewpoints as to what TLG is or isn't and should or shouldn't be! 

Paperballpark

Bumblepants said:

Introducing the Winter Village Outhouse! Drop your yule logs in style with this all new set for 2015! Dump out the bricks into a nice pile before building a Winter Lego set that doesn't stink. $59.99

I might actually have to make one of those...

dougts

BrickDancer said:

1. Continued denial of decreasing part quality.
2. 'No Discount' policy for US (not sure what other countries this may apply to).
3. Discontinued Grab Bags with a lame excuse.
4. Rehashing valuable theme sets (Toy Shop, X-Wing)
5. Ever increasing ratio of price to parts for sets (City Shuttle, most SW, Smaug set)
6. Banning of VIP shoppers without notice if suspected of reselling.
7. Unstated removal of free promos with [email protected] orders.
8. Increasing limitations and restrictions when it comes to MMMB events.

There's more situations and examples I'm sure. But these have been the bigger ones in my view.

9. discontinuing the holiday pick and brick boxes
10. short-lived and ill-conceived attempts to force store employees to refuse sales on the spot to suspected resellers, which resulted in a racially charged incident in at least one location, and a quick walkback from the policy.

BrickDancer

Oh yeah the Holiday boxes! That was such an exciting promo each year that did encourage repeat trips to the store. Alas that tis no more as well. Big boo to Lego for that also.

But I wasn't aware of that reseller incident, can you elaborate on what happened?

cheshirecat

By my count half of that list are a response to resellers...

No discount policy
Banning resellers
Removal of promos [which is usually inline with their terms and conditions]
Discontinuing the christmas pab boxes
Refusal to serve resellers

and I would add, tightening of lug/showcase offers.

Leaving you with...

Part quality [i haven't been effected by this, but it seems to be an issue for some]
Grab bags [excuse may be lame, and they were a great offering, not surprising they didn't last forever]
Rehashing themes - does two swallows make a summer, also hardly universal that its a bad thing
Increasing price/part ratio
MMB restrictions

Given Lego stores are faced with resellers travelling the length and breadth of the UK, trying to con store employees, use their families and phone orders to avoid purchase limits and abuse staff. Given they have to deal with resellers abusing store discounts in flagrant disregard of the terms and conditions leading to full blown arguments with staff and other customers what are they supposed to do? I remember saying when these first discussions were originally going around that the actions of, lets call them, the extreme resellers would end up hurting us all. Guess what. And when we lose our next benefit, which could be very soon, Ill know who to blame too.

chuxtoybox

Bumblepants said:

Introducing the Winter Village Outhouse! Drop your yule logs in style with this all new set for 2015! Dump out the bricks into a nice pile before building a Winter Lego set that doesn't stink. $59.99

You used the wrong style wreath.

dougts

I think you need to add the pab boxes and the lug/showcase to the list. Neither of those seemed aimed particularly at resellers and they certainly affected non-resellers much more predominantly 

Galactus

chuxtoybox said:

Bumblepants said:

Introducing the Winter Village Outhouse! Drop your yule logs in style with this all new set for 2015! Dump out the bricks into a nice pile before building a Winter Lego set that doesn't stink. $59.99

You used the wrong style wreath.

I think the toilet seat is to be used inside the outhouse...

cheshirecat

You're right, there's two aspects to the lug showcase changes, the benefits the showcasers got (which is what i meant) and then recently the changes to the space, how often they're changed etc. That latter one certainly wouldn't be a response to reselling and is crazy.

The removal of pab boxes i was told was a response to resellers, as they were the primary buyers abusing the system (in lego's eyes at least) to end up with dozens of free pab boxes. The changes to the benefits of showcasers were to tackle reselling.

jonboy2000

Blame resellers for everything! yawn.

LostInTranslation

^ Blame resellers for some things that actually did contribute to. I don't say they're evil or anything like that, but Lego has stated they are the reason for some of their policy changes so they have to accept some responsibility.

But this thread isn't really about resellers so I think we should move on / take it elsewhere 

bri4jenn

Will #10245 Santa's Workshop be back again this year?

(1)Stein

bri4jenn said:

Will #10245 Santa's Workshop be back again this year?

Yes! It's already showing up at local retailers.......

monkyby87

TheLoneTensor said:

@monkyby87 I thought you were going to take a break from the boards because it's all negative up in here.

As for the other "huh?" moves, what @madaboutlego said, plus banning folks from [email protected]  You don't have to "make Lego your life" to know about these things on the boards either.

Ha, I couldn't help it when I saw how many responses the topic was still receiving.  Wow, I didn't realize people were becoming banned from [email protected]  I apologize for my ignorance.  Seriously, I wasn't aware.  What reasoning, do you know?

monkyby87

(1)Stein said:

bri4jenn said:

Will #10245 Santa's Workshop be back again this year?

Yes! It's already showing up at local retailers.......

Wow, that's being release again too?  Or rather, just coming back in stock I guess...

BrickDancer

@monkyby87 Yea the changes have been subtle to most casual shoppers, but for us committed folks who've been around for a few years it's been a long series of changes. All of which were for the negative, not sure if there have been many positive changes though now that I think about it. So like a slow slippery slope and a growing iron fist.

dougts

LostInTranslation said:

^ Blame resellers for some things that actually did contribute to. I don't say they're evil or anything like that, but Lego has stated they are the reason for some of their policy changes so they have to accept some responsibility.

There is also the possibility that LEGO is stating reselling as a reason to explain away some unpopular choices when in fact the real reason may simply be cost-cutting or profit.  If someone asks "hey, how come my kids don't get free PAB boxes anymore?", it's a lot easier to sell "well, blame the resellers" than it is to just say "you know what, we sell sets like crazy no matter what, so we don't need to give out freebies anymore to attract sales", but the second reason could easily be the true reason (or at least part of the reason, likely the bigger part)

Not they they aren't entitled to cut freebies, discounts, promotions, etc, they certainly are. and when you are as hot as they are right now, you don't have to give away free stuff.  Personally, I think it's short sighted to disgruntle your most loyal fanbase, but hey, it's not my call.  And it's  a certainly a lot easier for them to sell the profit-based motives by misdirecting people to another party to take the blame.

goshe7

BrickDancer said:

@monkyby87 Yea the changes have been subtle to most casual shoppers, but for us committed folks who've been around for a few years it's been a long series of changes. All of which were for the negative, not sure if there have been many positive changes though now that I think about it. So like a slow slippery slope and a growing iron fist.

List of positive changes for the committed folks?  Here ya go.
1. HUGE expansion of licensed themes.  LotR & Super Heroes top the list of "themes I wish LEGO would make but never will (year 2010 edition)".  Scooby Doo, Simpsons are also in the mix.
2. Collectible minifigures.  I can count on zero fingers the number of AFOLs I know that haven't bought at least one.
3. Pick a Brick online
4. Bricks and Pieces online
5. Expansion in the number of sets and available themes
6. Creation and continued support of new themes targeted to the committed folks.  (Large Creator sets & UCS)
7. Cuusoo and Ideas, both of which improve on the Design by Me concept.

Now if you will excuse me, I must get back to burning my now worthless MISB 10199 along with the rest of my WV.  

vwong19

^ I agree that not all is negative since I started collecting back in 2008.

1. Lego Store in my neighborhood! Don't have to drive 100 miles to the nearest store.
2. Super Heroes are back with a vengeance. 
3. Collectible minifigures - introduce so many new and great head expressions, paint apps, accessories, multi-tone molds.
4. Free shipping on online orders.
5. Modulars.

Still selling my used 10199 to get version 1.1.

kiki180703

@vwong19 I agree with you for the modulars :wink: 

dougts

goshe7 said:

List of positive changes for the committed folks?  Here ya go.

1. HUGE expansion of licensed themes.  LotR & Super Heroes top the list of "themes I wish LEGO would make but never will (year 2010 edition)".  Scooby Doo, Simpsons are also in the mix.
2. Collectible minifigures.  I can count on zero fingers the number of AFOLs I know that haven't bought at least one.
3. Pick a Brick online
4. Bricks and Pieces online
5. Expansion in the number of sets and available themes
6. Creation and continued support of new themes targeted to the committed folks.  (Large Creator sets & UCS)
7. Cuusoo and Ideas, both of which improve on the Design by Me concept.

Now if you will excuse me, I must get back to burning my now worthless MISB 10199 along with the rest of my WV.  

1) i actually put this as a negative change.  regardless, this trend was in place LONG before the negative changes we are referring to started getting phased in around 2012/13
2) also a huge negative to me
3/4) hasn't this been around a long time?  certainly it also long predates the recent changes being discussed thus far
5) one could argue this comes at the expense of both quality (design) as well as is a big driver of the availability issues that LEGO is having with their more popular themes
6) this hasn't changed too much since about 2009/2010. What changes that have occurred have been more negative than positive:  ever smaller modulars, piece count reductions, price overinflation, investing set budgets into play features at the expense of display quality
7) both of which have been poorly implemented and policed, with poor guidelines and rules, and plenty of "unannounced" parameters

SumoLego

^  What exactly are you positive about?

I'm curious to know how 2011 was some Lego renaissance that I should be romanticising...

dougts

I'm using late 2012 and 2013 as the point in time in which the recent trend of negative changes started being phased in.  Prior to that, we were in a true golden age of LEGO from about 2007 through early to mid 2012. Deals were good, rewards to die hard customers and afols were meaningful, designs and price values were top notch without as much obvious corner cutting. Licenses were prevalent but not yet over proliferated 

dougts

SumoLego said:

^  What exactly are you positive about?

Well we were talking about changes specifically.  There is a lot about LEGO that I like obviously, but trying to narrow to a list of changes since 2012 that I like:
1) new parts
2) new colors & color/part combinations
3) I'd agree with the original point above about more variety in sets/themes, though my point about this contributing to product shortages is a valid counter argument 
4) minidolls/friends and specifically how this appealed to a whole new large demographic 

I love Lego PRODUCTS and Don't see that changing.  But the company policies and other retail strategies have certainly been a significant net negative over the past three years.  I don't think that's really even debatable. And the ever dwindling benefits towards afols and Lugs have been a big slap in the face 

SumoLego

CMFs are a negative?

Generally, I disagree with your assessment of the direction of Lego.  And with aspects of your analysis, but I certainly respect your opinions.

I'm quite content with the company's offerings.