any idea what the 2015 winter village set is?

MrJ_NY

Who knows,if sales on this release go well maybe next year we'll get Santa's Winter Exosuit :D

binaryeye

Brickaholic said:

binaryeye said:

Brickaholic said:

This is a fair point, however no design or market research costs have gone into the set. It is a blatant copy of the old set, at least do something to compliment the old one.

It's possible their market research indicated a re-release was the best option. And there were obviously design costs because it's not identical to the previous set.

It is still a blatant copy of the old set. Do you think it took 100's of man hours to come up with that new design?

No, but to say there were no costs is certainly false. At the very least, multiple people spent time discussing the viability of a re-release, a set designer spent time making the tweaks, an artist spent time updating the prints, someone in production spent time making plates for the pad printing, multiple others in production spent time scheduling and executing production, a photographer spent time taking photos, a graphic designer spent time making the box, a copywriter spent time writing the marketing material, a video crew spent time making a designer video, and others spent time managing all of these people. Apart from the set design, the set required everything a new set requires.

Steve_J_OM

I'm firmly in the 'disappointment' camp. That said, I didn't pick up Santa's Workshop last year because I have simply run out of room for my WV display. Glad I have the chance (presumably!) to pick something new up this season, even if it's not a brand new set. Hopefully the freebie sets are decent to pick up the slack. 

Renny

Silver lining, I just saved myself some money since I own the original release.

BrickDancer

Horrible decision by TLG to rehash anything from this line, a once-a-year theme that is much loved by a wide audience. I hope sales on it crash so they get the message loud & clear about re-releases. Preventing any further poor ideas of doing so to Modulars, UCS or Expert Creator lines from ever happening.

cheshirecat

I too like jussjeffs theory, sounds very plausible. 

TheLoneTensor

Bumblepants said:

JusJeff on the front page had an interesting theory that perhaps the original plan was to finish the series with Santa's Workshop and they decided late in the process the holiday set was too lucrative to abandon so they dusted the cobwebs off this one since they didn't have time to create something new. I think the wording in the Santa description said something like 'complete your village with...' and that created the speculation it would be the last one.

I don't see that description, at least in the desc at [email protected]  In fact, that actually reads "Enjoy the magic of Christmas with Santa’s Workshop, a festive addition to the LEGO® Winter Village Series!"

That doesn't really sound like the end of a line to me.

bluedragon

It was stated by the designer in the video, I believe.

thedingman5

BrickDancer said:

Horrible decision by TLG to rehash anything from this line, a once-a-year theme that is much loved by a wide audience. I hope sales on it crash so they get the message loud & clear about re-releases. Preventing any further poor ideas of doing so to Modulars, UCS or Expert Creator lines from ever happening.

It still bewilders me why LEGO hasn't done more of these re-releases.  One quick perusal of the "Most Wanted" sets on brickset alone - http://brickset.com/sets/query-35 (which is only a fraction of the potential market) gives a pretty interesting view into the market opportunity.  Of the 25 most wanted sets, 16 are Modulars or UCS sets!!! 

What business doesn't "give the people what they want"?

Smartest thing to do is re-issue the Modulars and the old Winter's Village - provided new sets follow.  You expand the "subscription base" or the "collector" population.  You only piss off resellers (LEGO wouldn't care about that); you get a few nasty comments from folks who paid too much in aftermarket (happens with everything from houses to cars to food, no sweat to LEGO either).

I think this is a "toe in the water" to see if re-issues work.  As a builder and appreciator of LEGO (not a "collector" or reseller), I'm curious to see where LEGO takes this!

oldtodd33

^ Lego has done the re-issue thing before with terrible results as in selling them at 50% off. 

TheLoneTensor

bluedragon said:

It was stated by the designer in the video, I believe.

You're right, he does say that.  It's certainly a possibility.  Then again, it could also simply be a mistaken choice of verb used by someone when English isn't their first language.

Basta

I think there could be some overthinking going on here. I would not be surprised if a re release of the Toy Shop was intended due to it being the best option.

Lego has exploded in popularity since 2009 and from what I often read on forums and the like is that the toy shop is the most popular WV set. Time will tell, but I won't be surprised if this set sells as well, if not better than any of the previous WV sets.

vwong19

Very interesting. I have 1 used complete set (personal collection) and 1 new sealed (backup/investment/rainy day). After seeing the "new" toy shop, I prefer the newer version and am selling both my used and new sets on Bricklink.

I am following the market of the 10199, and see today the inventory of this set increasing and prices dropping from $200 to $159 (new) and $150 to $139 (used). The price I will continue to drop.

Rebrick37112

Every year we look forward to getting the new set for the holidays. Here kids, here is the same set we have already have from years ago.  I'm happy for those who don't have it but Lego should have made a new one for the season with the re-release. I guess I can spend some money on other non-Lego gifts. 

HokieJoe99

For those who are trying to justify the price increase from the original, remember that when the original came out, there were still discounts on exclusives. This actually could increase the difference between what somebody back in 2009 paid for this set and what this set will be sold for this year. 

It it seems as though LEGO is getting out of the business of stacking blocks and more into the business of stacking bad decisions for their fans. 

Higher price+no discount+rereleased set = Me saving $80

SirBen

MrJ_NY said:

Who knows,if sales on this release go well maybe next year we'll get Santa's Winter Exosuit :D

I was hoping for a Santa's Winter Village Death Star...

VaderX

I picked up two originals for 35$ each on clearance and sold one long ago for 85$ on fleabay... 35$ vs 80$ for a brick separator ?  Huge disappointment.  The WV and Trains are the only two themes I buy for models and not just for the parts.  I literally looked forward to a new winter village each year.  Guess i'll be saving 80$ this year.

grounded

Not that a multi-billion dollar toy company would need to be this calculating, but....

Does anyone think TLG will 'listen to their customers valuable feedback' and by popular demand release a another new WV set this year that's already planned out and in the production queue?

This seems totally unnecessary, but it would appease the people begging to hand over $100 to them for a new WV set this year. 

Pitfall69

I'm "like-whoring" again :0

That's what you do when you have nothing to say; you just "like" everyone else's comments. I'm mailing it in...Much like Lego did.

CircleK

There's more to this. There has to be. 

For one, I can't get past @Grogall's teaser post. He's never been wrong before. We all know that. 

Two, I've noticed that at least one of the "in the know" members at EB seems to be hinting that there is more to come.

I have a feeling that something is going to hit us out of left field and whatever it is will be "sweet". 

As for the Toy Shop re-release - I'm stoked. I've always loved this set and the updates are brilliant. The micro build toys are just perfect. I sold my original some time ago so I'm looking forward to seeing it in my collection again. 

legomatt

Pitfall69 said:

I'm "like-whoring" again :0

That's what you do when you have nothing to say; you just "like" everyone else's comments. I'm mailing it in...Much like Lego did.

Careful, it spreads. ;o)

hewman

deleted.

Jern92

Here's to hoping they decide to go in the same direction with the Green Grocer, Grand Carousel, and Taj Mahal. I know, wishful thinking, but I can't help myself :-P

SumoLego

That would be something if they release a second Winter Village set.

All of this hoopla for nothing!

Or maybe they devoted the WV resources to the 9000 Dimensions sets they're releasing.

WatfordScottyM

I'm actually quite pleased as I missed out on this one when it originally came out.  To be honest, if Lego think it's going to be a good seller then why shouldn't they re-release it?

pharmjod

Would be interesting if they had 3 WV sets out at the same time this year.

PeteM

oldtodd33 said:

^ Lego has done the re-issue thing before with terrible results as in selling them at 50% off. 

They did - but it was 13-14 years ago. Could market conditions have changed significantly enough that they now believe there could be be more of a demand for these kind of things than there was then?

Shib

^More importantly this is a very different scenario to the legends sets - this is one specific rerelease of in a theme that only gets one new set per year.
The set being rereleased here is only 6 years old, some of the legends ones were 20 years old.
The sets rereleased in the legends line were ones that were in general, originally aimed solely at children - the WV line, while I'm sure many kids love, is really more for the older audience.

I'm sure that fans of the WV line who don't already have the Toy Shop are really glad to see this, and I have to say seeing a rerelease isn't an issue for me, what is an issue is that it's taken the one slot that the WV gets this year. If there is a surprise additional WV set for this year that would be amazing, and to be honest I think it could be an interesting move for LEGO to sell one new and one 'classic' WV set each year rather than having the new one along with last years - although people who were banking on getting Santa's Workshop this year might be annoyed if they can't there will at least be the implication that it might return in about 6 years time ;-)

monkyby87

BrickDancer said:

Horrible decision by TLG to rehash anything from this line, a once-a-year theme that is much loved by a wide audience. I hope sales on it crash so they get the message loud & clear about re-releases. Preventing any further poor ideas of doing so to Modulars, UCS or Expert Creator lines from ever happening.

I'll wait and see how well it sells until I call it a horrible decision.  Is it really loved by a wider audience?  I feel like it's a rather exclusive group of people that collect it, for the reason you stated, it's a once-a-year theme.  I might be wrong, but that's my impression I've always received from the winter/holiday line.  And if rereleasing brings them in more money and keeps product moving, they'll keep doing so.  They are a business that wants to make money, after all.  I believe they didn't have any real plans to keep the WV going, but saw there was still interest in the WV line, so they released a set while they contemplate what to do with the line.

madforLEGO

PeteM said:

oldtodd33 said:

^ Lego has done the re-issue thing before with terrible results as in selling them at 50% off. 

They did - but it was 13-14 years ago. Could market conditions have changed significantly enough that they now believe there could be be more of a demand for these kind of things than there was then?

sigh, this old debate again. LEGO completely bombed with the Legends line, and it would again.. Actually worse as they would likely make them 'exclusives' meaning no sales on them either in the US.
The issues are constant no matter how many people are buying LEGO. The number of people that would buy a rehash set are not going to be more than the current number of buyers with the set already that would rather see a new set.
Other reasons are that, well, there is a difference between nostalgia and reality. Many people looked at the Legends line and mostly said it is was 'out dated' looking. I loved Main street and wish I could have gotten one as a kid.
Another issue is part of the last, part types. Many parts are no longer made by LEGO so substitutions would be made, which may drive folks who wanted an 'original' set to keep wanting.

Can you say Never with LEGO? No, Toy shop kind of proves that, at least a bit. Though the changes are slim IMO.
I still think though that the Toy shop situation is different than say re-releasing a Mod of the UCS Falcon for example. I cannot put my figure on it, but I believe this is more about LEGO either being cheap or needing a quick fix for something that went wrong with another WV set, regardless of how they spin it. Plus it is a lot easier to do another toy shop than re-release another mod or UCS falcon, as this set is under 100 USD, so the worse case is that they have to discount them, whereas they likely will not want warehouses filled with UCS falcons and Cafe Corners where they have to discount those to move them (or hold onto them forever) People forget that Cafe Corners did not move at 139.99 USD, do you think they would move like gangbusters at 159.99 USD?

mustang69

I'm definitely disappointed that there is nothing new coming out this year but I do like the changes they made to the toy shop even if they are minor. I may have to get one even though I have the original and just mod it into a different shop.

What they should be doing is maybe re-release an old set along with a new set. That way those who missed the first release can catch up.

Gooker1

I wonder if production is going to be less than last year's WV set.  It would make sense for them to make less b/c most people who own the original Toy Shop aren't going to shell out money for a second that's practically identical.

pharmjod

madforLEGO said:

sigh, this old debate again. LEGO completely bombed with the Legends line, and it would again.. Actually worse as they would likely make them 'exclusives' meaning no sales on them either in the US.

I really don't think you can compare legends to this. LEGO is almost a completely different company than they were 15 years ago as far as market reach us concerned. If indeed we start seeing re-releases I think it will be executed better. Time will tell, but given LEGO's enormous popularity right now, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I welcome it if they do.

cheshirecat

im sure the production run will be much less than the last few years of WV sets. it would be crazy not to. lack of production with dimensions and everything else might even have been part of the reasoning behind the re-release.

Briking

So the WV line has become like City.  There'll always be a police station or fire station.  Which are slight modifications of the previous version.  It works for kids, as they'll come into the hobby and want emergency services.  And then they move onto another hobby before the next version is released, so no worries.

Is this Lego's way of saying it is time for AFOLs to move on?

madforLEGO

Briking said:

So the WV line has become like City.  There'll always be a police station or fire station.  Which are slight modifications of the previous version.  It works for kids, as they'll come into the hobby and want emergency services.  And then they move onto another hobby before the next version is released, so no worries.

Is this Lego's way of saying it is time for AFOLs to move on?

Maybe they need a Winter Village Police station.

pharmjod said:

madforLEGO said:

sigh, this old debate again. LEGO completely bombed with the Legends line, and it would again.. Actually worse as they would likely make them 'exclusives' meaning no sales on them either in the US.

I really don't think you can compare legends to this. LEGO is almost a completely different company than they were 15 years ago as far as market reach us concerned. If indeed we start seeing re-releases I think it will be executed better. Time will tell, but given LEGO's enormous popularity right now, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I welcome it if they do.

I think you can compare Legends to this. A minority of the fans wanted sets to be remade. Many of those sets were also in demand in the secondary market when Legends came out (eBay was very much around and Metroliners were crazy expensive at the time if I recall correctly, same with Guarded Inn, Black Seas Barracuda, Main Street, etc), but yet at the end of the day LEGO took a bath on the sets that did not sell out. Does LEGO really want to try that again? Based on what? A small % of the populous that would want them? There is a far difference between wanting a set and buying a set. People barely bought Cafe Corner at 139.99 USD back then, are you saying a large majority of the fans are really going to pay 159.99 USD for what many consider an antiquated design? 
Is the large majority of LEGO fans going to pay what would likely be 139.99 USD for a Market street? No that is why they go for a ton now, no one wanted to pay the 89.99 USD for them then.
Same reason why Cafe Corner goes for a lot, no body bought them. Stores regularly had them at 120 USD and even then they could not sell them out.

pharmjod

I was around and selling LEGO then. Yes eBay was there, but it is a whole new ball game now. I still don't think you can fairly compare the two.

tamamahm

Gooker1 said:

I wonder if production is going to be less than last year's WV set.  It would make sense for them to make less b/c most people who own the original Toy Shop aren't going to shell out money for a second that's practically identical.

Right. I do not understand why folks think this rerelease would sell more than a well-done new winter set.

Anyone interested in the winter theme would probably buy a brand new set.
On the flip, with the toy shop, you have those sales minus your customers that have it already. 

Fauch

though everything isn't merely about how well it will sell, they may foresee other benefits independantly of sales.

veleta

You are right.  Just pointing out benefits  for  both;  TLG and Lego fans.

SumoLego

Fauch said:

though everything isn't merely about how well it will sell, they may foresee other benefits independantly of sales.

What benefits would those be?  

(Not to be glib, but just about everything is about sales, driving current sales or laying groundwork for long-term future sales...)

veleta

But...  the main problem "for me"  is when TLG decides what to re-release without  asking the people, or ever worst, by leaving  us, WV fans without a new set for this year.

SumoLego

(There is a separate re-release thread for a more general discussion on that topic.)

binaryeye

tamamahm said:

Anyone interested in the winter theme would probably buy a brand new set.
On the flip, with the toy shop, you have those sales minus your customers that have it already. 

You're assuming everyone that will buy the Toy Shop would have instead bought any other Winter Village set.

I think more people are likely to identify with the concept of a holiday toy shop than most other buildings that could fit into the theme. While someone with all of the previous sets in the series might be interested in a candy shop or train station, the first-time buyer might not be. LEGO is more popular now than it was when the Toy Shop was first released. It's entirely possible the market for a re-released Toy Shop is larger than the market for a completely new set.

pharmjod

Many naysayers thought friends would flop too. I think in general LEGO has gotten better about figuring out what will do well (fusion and exo suit excluded :)

crazycarl

maybe they will re-release Santas workshop since it has been out of stock pretty much since it was released :smile:.  I bought mine on the first run and it was missing parts and the sticker sheet.  That may explain its current status.  As for the new toy shop im [email protected]#ED!  They need something new.  However im more mad at the fact that I missed the original and paid $225 just to get it.  It seems the winter village is going the way of Star Wars in remakes!!!!!  I just hope they re-release the WV Train!!!!

Fauch

SumoLego said:

Fauch said:

though everything isn't merely about how well it will sell, they may foresee other benefits independantly of sales.

What benefits would those be?  

(Not to be glib, but just about everything is about sales, driving current sales or laying groundwork for long-term future sales...)

well, I wanted to talk about the sales for this specific set. the goal could be more about long term than short term profit.

wagnerml2

I think Lego misses the point on these. This theme was designed to be a collector's theme.  There are all kinds o winter village collections out there by all kinds of manufactures.  All of them have limited runs and retire buildings in order to drive the collectability of the entire line.  Here, Lego is attempting to merge the two.  They've created a theme aimed at a collector and then destroyed the value of part of that collection by offering a re-release.  I think it was a mistake and a business miscalculation on TLG part regardless if they follow later with a new building as well.  Not that I think they care, but when your target niche for a line is a collector, you should strive to protect the collectability of the line.  WV is not like City or Castle or the rest for that reason....at least thats how I see it.

dragonhawk

wagnerml2 said:

I think Lego misses the point on these. This theme was designed to be a collector's theme.  There are all kinds o winter village collections out there by all kinds of manufactures.  All of them have limited runs and retire buildings in order to drive the collectability of the entire line.  Here, Lego is attempting to merge the two.  They've created a theme aimed at a collector and then destroyed the value of part of that collection by offering a re-release.  I think it was a mistake and a business miscalculation on TLG part regardless if they follow later with a new building as well.  Not that I think they care, but when your target niche for a line is a collector, you should strive to protect the collectability of the line.  WV is not like City or Castle or the rest for that reason....at least thats how I see it.

Of course not, with City the design of 2014 Police Station is not the exact replica of its 2011 counterpart.  :D

Brew

Although I don't own the old Toy Shop and I will probably buy this one, I am disappointed with this re-release. I collect sets because they are unique and special, and when there is a re-release I feel like it lessens that uniqueness. I don't own the first 2 modulars and do NOT want TLG to re-release them. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think it's a sign of Lego's greatness that there are retired sets out there that command that kind of value. Even though I would probably buy re-released modulars, I would feel kind of dirty doing it. And maybe I wouldn't in the hope that business wise it would fail.

As far as my theory for why do this, I think it is TLG dipping their toe in these waters to see if it can be acceptably/highly profitable. I think their first recent foray into these waters was the pseudo re-release of the UCS X-Wing. How is that doing? I know there are some big differences in that case such as much more re-design work, but it was the first UCS model in an exclusive series and TLG probably knew they would get negative backlash from the AFOL community but did it anyway. This time they've pushed it further by doing an almost 100% copy with very little design effort. TLG has completely re-invented itself since the legends line, so I don't really think you can compare the behind the scenes business impacts. They've shifted much more to a profitability model then a volume sales model. They will most certainly do a much smaller launch then they did back then.