Predictions on Discontinuing Sets and their Secondary Market Value

CCC

Jerry Springer, but even less classy.

Pitfall69

I really love this building. It is "iconic" to me because it was in the original Robocop. The GM Renaissance  Building.

juddtaylor

Pitfall69 said:

This is the only decent restaurant besides the Parisian Restaurant. 

Nope: 6350-1
http://images.brickset.com/sets/images/6350-1.jpg

roxio

^surely that's a takeaway joint not a restaurant  ;)

madforLEGO

thedingman5 said:

I think the issue with the current Pirates line is that there is nothing between the $20-30 sets and the $100 Ship. Most afols, myself included, were expecting a $60-80 range soldiers fort of some kind. No matter how detailed a $30 set is, it will never be terribly exciting to our crowd.

I imagine given the apparent weak performance of sets like Mill Village Raid and White Cap Bay, Lego probably decided to just put out smaller, more kid friendly sets that would sell better. And the end of the day it is all about what will sell and what won't. They probably just came to the conclusion that if anyone is going to drop big bucks into a Pirate set they are going to get a ship and not a fort/outpost.

Doesn't #40158 (Chess Set) meet the price point and army building needs? I do think that they undersold / undermarketed the inclusion of the Chess Set into this year's overall line.

Army builder yes, but I believe these are Chinese produced figures right? So if that is the case expect a lot of paint wear on torsos and whatnot if handled a lot. Plus army building for Pirates works better I think if you have ships, or the ability to have a large hideout, which this current line does not have (Aside from one ship). What would have been nice is if LEGO did a 3 in 1 Pirate ship set in the vein of the Creator homes and the Minecrafting set. Throw a few different color combo sails sets into it and a bow and stern and a few spacing pieces to make a smaller or larger ship let people build a ship to their liking.

mathew said:

madforLEGO said:

 
Will these do OK? Probably. There are many architects and many have disposable income as well, but I would not be throwing any large amount into these for resell.

Robie House is selling for $300+
I think Fallingwater is a predictable safe bet to hit $175-200 a year or two post retirement.  Depends on where you want to invest your funds and what your expectations are.

True, but Robie was 199.99 USD (and arguably more iconic than Falling water, but maybe that is my Chicago bias talking). Not like many people were throwing their money into it. I think it may be been discounted sometimes, but ultimately a 199.99 USD set. If a 40 dollar set would it have been going for 300 USD now? Not sure. Fallingwater should do OK, again due to the high price point. I just would not be pouring my money into the typical Architecture sets. It is like any other line I think. all the middling sets are likely not to do too well in the aftermarket whereas the larger more expensive sets will do OK. What is nicer is those boxes are less space consumers than a mod, for example, so those with not a lot of space may do OK, if selling on the side with the Architecture sets.

Farmer_John

Robie was available for $135-150 from Amazon for a period of time before it was EOL'd. So it's basically already doubled in value for those who were able to pick it up for that price.

chuckp

Pitfall69 said:

I really love this building. It is "iconic" to me because it was in the original Robocop. The GM Renaissance  Building.

I'd buy that for a dollar! :smile: Seriously though, that would make a nice Architecture set. 

mathew

Farmer_John said:

Robie was available for $135-150 from Amazon for a period of time before it was EOL'd. So it's basically already doubled in value for those who were able to pick it up for that price.

Yep.  And I believe that B&N even had a deal one Christmas where it could be had for close to $100.  I kind of regret not picking it up.  However there were just too many other sets vying for my money at the time.

mathew

I don't see a lot of love for the Architecture series on Brickset.  True it's not Super Heroes, Star Wars or Modulars (which seem to dominate discussion here).  But they can be quite fun to put together.  Fallingwater is one of my favorite builds and looks classy when displayed. 

BigKid

mathew said:

Farmer_John said:

Robie was available for $135-150 from Amazon for a period of time before it was EOL'd. So it's basically already doubled in value for those who were able to pick it up for that price.

Yep.  And I believe that B&N even had a deal one Christmas where it could be had for close to $100.  I kind of regret not picking it up.  However there were just too many other sets vying for my money at the time.Yes, they did. They were 40% plus an additional 10% off making them right around ~$100. Should've bought more myself! :wink:

BigKid

piratemania7

I'm trying to understand myself the reasoning behind this current Pirates line.

TLG releases 5 sets. Two soldier sets that combine to make one really and the two pirate sets to do the same. Then of course an anchor set which would be expected, pirate ship.

As much of a pirates fan as I am I had no clue that a chess set was coming out until well it came out. I think it's actually one of the better sets of the line and post retirement I think it stands one of the better fighting chances for the line.

Now, back to the 5 sets. Nothing spectacular no but I think TLG has some sort of schematic that tells them "ok designers, let's ramp it up and release another wave".

I don't think it's an iconic wave or a really good one but I do think I appreciate the release of this wave and wonder if we will see anything else released at some point?

With that said I too would have thought it would be cool to have some sort of 69.99 or 79.99 fort or island hideout but alast, I will have to build my own eventually.

BACbrix

I don't care if Robie House is low on this list as long as the price is where it is. Since architecture will never be remade any completion will have to buy it and pay the crazy after market.

juggles7

If you're still interested in purchase, you could probably find a Fallingwater at a Barnes and Noble store, but they're bad about damaging their boxes with security wires.  It's possible a few more could appear at Amazon.  This is a one-of-kind famous home in Pennsylvania, and remains a tourist attraction.  In the years to come, people will want the set and be willing to pay a whopping premium for it.  Mark my words on this one. 

mathew

brickupdate said:

Personally, I am AMAZED at what LEGO is doing. For those comparing older sets to their disappointment in newer sets, I would love to see some direct comparisons. Whenever I go back to 80s or 90s sets and look at how expensive they were for what you got, I'm shocked. Here is just one comparison based on the last few comments here about Pirates. There is a 20 year difference between these two sets, and the newer set has the same overall look, but is less than half


Well at least you got a blue base plate with that set.  Lego stupidly discontinued blue base plates right before the release of both Pirates and a Diver theme.  Who made that decision?

Farmer_John

I do purchase some of the Architecture sets if they interest me. I like the Big Ben and White House, and am interested in picking up the Louvre and Lincoln Memorial once they get marked down a bit. I did get a copy of the Robie House because it looked like it might be fun to build and I like the dark red color in the set.

The reason some of the aftermarket prices on these sets are high is because resellers generally overlooked them resulting in scarcity. Most of the Architecture sets fall into the category where I would pick up a copy, but never stock up on them. However, I would also be willing to part with my copy if the price was right.

Pitfall69

I know we talk about Modulars a lot on Brickset, they are very popular. The Architecture Series is neat, but not for me. Now, if they came out with an Architecture Series for Sports, I would be interested. Maybe strike a deal with MLB and have a set for every Baseball Stadium. They can do other stadiums as well like Wembley.

Another thing that separates the Architecture Series from other themes is the ease of building and lack of Minifigures. How easy is it to Bricklink the White House as compared to Town Hall? I think this is a huge reason why the Architecture Series won't ever do as well as some other themes.

tamamahm

piratemania7 said:

I'm trying to understand myself the reasoning behind this current Pirates line.

TLG releases 5 sets. Two soldier sets that combine to make one really and the two pirate sets to do the same. Then of course an anchor set which would be expected, pirate ship.

As much of a pirates fan as I am I had no clue that a chess set was coming out until well it came out. I think it's actually one of the better sets of the line and post retirement I think it stands one of the better fighting chances for the line.

Now, back to the 5 sets. Nothing spectacular no but I think TLG has some sort of schematic that tells them "ok designers, let's ramp it up and release another wave".

I don't think it's an iconic wave or a really good one but I do think I appreciate the release of this wave and wonder if we will see anything else released at some point?

With that said I too would have thought it would be cool to have some sort of 69.99 or 79.99 fort or island hideout but alast, I will have to build my own eventually.

I see this same thing in the American Girl line.
Basically themes arrive, stay for a bit, and disappear only to come back again. The key target age for kids playing with the product is that 6-12 range. It puts you in a 4-7 year cycle. Considering kids remembering things in smaller time blocks than that, you really are at more like a 3-5 year cycle.
While for AFOLs/collectors, it is boring to see the same cycle, it can be new and exciting for kids.  My 12 year old watched PoTC for the first time. She stated it would have been cool if Lego had made PoTC Lego. As adults, we all know that theme was out and about, but she had no idea. 

Considering, though, that pirates really does tend to attract younger kids these days, I suspect they went with their typical pirate cycle, but made sets that were cheaper, that would fit well with more of the 6-9 age. I don't think the sets are juniorized, but they are missing a bigger set that would attract your older kids and adults. With that missing, my son will have no interest in this line. 

ryjay

Pitfall69 said:

I know we talk about Modulars a lot on Brickset, they are very popular. The Architecture Series is neat, but not for me. Now, if they came out with an Architecture Series for Sports, I would be interested. Maybe strike a deal with MLB and have a set for every Baseball Stadium. They can do other stadiums as well like Wembley.

Baseball stadiums, now I'd be all over that....even if they just did the facades of some of the icon stadiums.

Chubbles

^Wrigley Field would look awesome

Pitfall69

^That's on the list ;)

VorpalRyu

If they introduced stadiums & the like into the Architecture series, I would buy Anfield, if it were done (dad was born & raised in Liverpool). Personally, I'd like to see more classical architecture sets, like Arc de Triomphe, Buckingham Palace, Alexander Palace, the Grand Palais, St Paul's Cathedral, the Parthenon, the Forbidden City & the Colosseum.

Chubbles

We need a colosseum complete with chariots and everything

Plell

I had never heard of the Tower of Orthanc before it was made into a LEGO set. But I don't confuse my own ignorance of the source material for a lack of desirability for that set.

VorpalRyu

^^ Of course, the Gladiator & Barbarian CMFs need a Colosseum to fight in...

Shib

Pitfall69 said:

Another thing that separates the Architecture Series from other themes is the ease of building and lack of Minifigures. How easy is it to Bricklink the White House as compared to Town Hall? I think this is a huge reason why the Architecture Series won't ever do as well as some other themes.

The other thing with Architecture sets in my opinion is that while they might look nice enough the majority of them are lacking a bit of wow factor, which happens with any microscale sets. My brother bought me the Eiffel Tower set last year and while it looks nice enough I don't really care for it at all. I know others look more interesting/have more to them, but to anyone who isnt into architecture or the monuments in question they are just shelf fillers with no real meaning

VorpalRyu

^ TRUTH!

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

Would be interesting to have an Architect (or student of Architecture) chime in on this one... By my understanding, both Robie House and Fallingwater are (among Architecture circles) TRULY iconic and form part of any syllabus for students of Architecture design. While they may not be as iconic to the average punter, they certainly are to those who study/ work in the field.  These are the kinds of sets that I feel Architects would be willing to drop BIG dollars on (and for that matter parents of Architectural students willing to do exactly the same as graduating (or other milestone) gifts for their Architecturally inclined children... I REALLY see these as the long term 'sleeper' hits of the entire line... my 2C.

VorpalRyu

^ Form part of any syllabus for Architecture? As in, all over the world? Or just the USA? I would be curious too, I'd like to here from a few Architects (or students of Architectural Design), preferably from different points on the globe.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

I'm in Australia too VorpalRyu, Can't say these days but they definitely formed part of the syllabus here 20 years ago...but then again 20 years ago Architects/ Draftsmen actually had to be able to draw things....

CCC

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA said:

Would be interesting to have an Architect (or student of Architecture) chime in on this one... By my understanding, both Robie House and Fallingwater are (among Architecture circles) TRULY iconic and form part of any syllabus for students of Architecture design. While they may not be as iconic to the average punter, they certainly are to those who study/ work in the field.  These are the kinds of sets that I feel Architects would be willing to drop BIG dollars on (and for that matter parents of Architectural students willing to do exactly the same as graduating (or other milestone) gifts for their Architecturally inclined children... I REALLY see these as the long term 'sleeper' hits of the entire line... my 2C.

Wouldn't architects want more realistic scale models? Rather than something that sort of looks like what it is meant to be, but not quite. If they are not fans of lego, then they won't care so much what it is made from. I've only visited an architect's office a couple of times. They tended to have models on display of buildings they had built, they were decent quality scale architect models.

pharmjod

sometimes you just want something you can put on your desk

juggles7

Shib said:

Pitfall69 said:

Another thing that separates the Architecture Series from other themes is the ease of building and lack of Minifigures. How easy is it to Bricklink the White House as compared to Town Hall? I think this is a huge reason why the Architecture Series won't ever do as well as some other themes.

The other thing with Architecture sets in my opinion is that while they might look nice enough the majority of them are lacking a bit of wow factor, which happens with any microscale sets. My brother bought me the Eiffel Tower set last year and while it looks nice enough I don't really care for it at all. I know others look more interesting/have more to them, but to anyone who isnt into architecture or the monuments in question they are just shelf fillers with no real meaning

I submit to you that both Fallingwater and Robie House have what you call the "wow factor".  As for your last sentence, that could be said about any theme.  If the person "isn't into it", then the sets are "just shelf fillers with no real meaning".  But that's a reflection on the person, moreso than on the set.  When people are ignorant about something, and have no motivation to learn about the topic, then of course it "has no meaning" for them. 

Plell

I have a degree in Architecture, and the LEGO Fallingwater set singlehandedly brought me out of my dark ages. On the other hand, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings sets are boring shelf fillers as far as I'm concerned, because I have no interest in the source material. And no, most architects and architecture students probably wouldn't want a perfectly accurate scale model. Architectural models always have a certain degree of abstraction to them; something with every last detail rendered in scale ends up looking more like something out of a model train layout.

Also, for what it's worth, Villa Savoye was the first building on my syllabus.

TheLoneTensor

There's being ignorant, and then there's just not knowing the name.  For example, the Flatiron building, Trevi Fountain or Sungnyemun (or, extending beyond architecture, the Tower of Orthanc).  Most people probably don't actually know the names, but they recognize the place because they'd seen it on TV or in a movie or book somewhere.  Granted, merely recognizing something won't necessarily help people actually want to purchase the set, but at least it's a step above zero meaning for them.

Talking about things like Fallingwater, Robie, Farnsworth, etc. those places I happen to know about, including history, but have decidedly no interest in.  It's probably because at the end of the day, they are just a neat house.  It's not like they are something extraordinarily stunning like say the House on the Rock.

As for resale, like many others have said before, it's difficult for me to invest in a set I wouldn't want to break open and build myself, so architecture sets like these don't appear on my radar, and those that do have some serious flaws, which prevent me from wanting even most of the ones that I do recognize and like.

SuperTramp

Why are there so many US Lego Architecture sets compared to the rest of the world?

Plell

^Probably because until recently, almost all of the sets were designed by Adam Reed Tucker, a Chicago-based architect.

SuperTramp

^Yeah thought that was the case.

It shows.

Sethro3

I definitely must be ignorant of most architecture. Looking through that list of the top buildings, I hadn't heard of a lot of them, mostly because of location. It would have nothing to do with the actual architecture style.

But looking at the list, some do look like they could be made pretty neat with either architecture line OR just me trying to incorporate them into my LUG's micropolis layout.

With that said, I hadn't heard of Robie house or Falling water until LEGO made sets.

AdeelZubair

Architecture was my first choice to study at university and I'm still into it but I chose Product Design instead.

As for the Architecture theme it is great but the prices really put me off in comparison to the size of the models and other great sets. I think they are great models to put on your desk or small shelves. I would like to see more larger models like Robie House, Imperial Hotel and Villa Savoye; those small Architecture models just don't have that WOW-factor that I get from other LEGO models.

So my advice is try and make them larger maybe even combine LEGO Creator landmarks into the LEGO Architecture and make the modols more refined like the style of the Architecture sets and use limited and a rich coluor platte like Earth Green, Black and White.

My college Art & Design teacher has some of the LEGO Architecture sets but doesn't have any other LEGO sets, so I guess it does have a fan base.

mathew

Adzbadboy said:

My college Art & Design teacher has some of the LEGO Architecture sets but doesn't have any other LEGO sets, so I guess it does have a fan base.

Most definitely.  There's a simplicity to a model such as Fallingwater that makes the building process enjoyable.  With a limited palette of color and bricks the focus is on the design more than being an exact copy of the house itself. 

mathew

Plell said:

^Probably because until recently, almost all of the sets were designed by Adam Reed Tucker, a Chicago-based architect.

Well he did come up with the theme so it makes sense that the first few models were his own designs. 

juddtaylor

I think the architecture series is just awful. 

They're too small, so they mock what they're trying to model.

They have no color. And worse, they are white, so they'll just yellow over time if you display them.

They're easy to bricklink, but I can't imagine who would want to go to such trouble for such shitty sets. 

I think lego did good with the tower bridge and large sydney opera house sets. The SOH architecture series set compared to the large SOH set personifies my opinion of the whole architecture line.

TheLoneTensor

There are many people with many different tastes.  I can easily see people like architects getting quite giddy over the Architecture sets.  Even I was able to find value in things I initially hated, like Chima and Mixels. 

You're entitled to your opinion, but crapping on someone for liking something is ridiculous.

Shib

TheLoneTensor said:

 
You're entitled to your opinion, but crapping on someone for liking something is ridiculous.

This thought needs to be kept in mind across the whole internet far more!

mathew

juddtaylor said:

I think the architecture series is just awful. 

They're too small, so they mock what they're trying to model.

They have no color. And worse, they are white, so they'll just yellow over time if you display them.

They're easy to bricklink, but I can't imagine who would want to go to such trouble for such shitty sets. 

I think lego did good with the tower bridge and large sydney opera house sets. The SOH architecture series set compared to the large SOH set personifies my opinion of the whole architecture line.

Well that's your opinion.  You also probably still play with GI Joes.

juggles7

Having a bad day, Judd?  You seem to be over-generalizing.  All the sets aren't white.  Robie House is a beautiful dark red, and the fantastic Imperial Hotel is a combination of several subdued colors.  Everything needn't be loud and garish in the Lego world; these aren't for kids. Yes, some of them are tiny, like the Guggenheim Museum, but it's a  fair representation, and it does not mock the actual building in any way.  Just don't buy them, for Christ sake.  And like beauty, "shitty" is in the eye of the beholder.  Have a nice day. 

Sethro3

I'd still play with G.I. Joes if I had more time to do so...I think LEGO and Hasbro should team up and make G.I. Joe LEGO instead of Kre-o...pity...

Farmer_John

Is anyone else having their comments put on hold to be reviewed by a moderator? I don't think I've said anything intentionally insulting to anyone on this website over the past four years (this is the point where my friend @cheshirecat posts something that I've said that was intentionally insulting to someone :wink: ). If this "hold for moderator approval" stuff continues, I might start taking it personally and cut my losses. :frowning:  Very annoying!

romanstar

ryjay said:

Pitfall69 said:

I know we talk about Modulars a lot on Brickset, they are very popular. The Architecture Series is neat, but not for me. Now, if they came out with an Architecture Series for Sports, I would be interested. Maybe strike a deal with MLB and have a set for every Baseball Stadium. They can do other stadiums as well like Wembley.

Baseball stadiums, now I'd be all over that....even if they just did the facades of some of the icon stadiums.

Baseball!Nah! We need a set of St.Andrews, Home to Birmingham City FC.Thats what we need. :)

madforLEGO

mathew said:

juddtaylor said:

I think the architecture series is just awful. 

They're too small, so they mock what they're trying to model.

They have no color. And worse, they are white, so they'll just yellow over time if you display them.

They're easy to bricklink, but I can't imagine who would want to go to such trouble for such shitty sets. 

I think lego did good with the tower bridge and large sydney opera house sets. The SOH architecture series set compared to the large SOH set personifies my opinion of the whole architecture line.

Well that's your opinion.  You also probably still play with GI Joes.

Interesting. Criticize someone complaining about LEGO by trying to insult them by saying they play with another toy....

I do not not agree with the comments from this guy, but replying to absurd opinions with an absurd comment is not very helpful.