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Predictions on Discontinuing Sets and their Secondary Market Value

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  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    I also think the Post Office will return this Christmas but if it has been retired, what happened to the "Retiring Soon" label? It seems to have gone straight from available to sold out to retired.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    ^"She's gone from suck to blow" ~ Spaceballs
    Rennydougtsjasor
  • DadsAFOLDadsAFOL USAMember Posts: 617
    Retired with ludicrous speed!
    Pitfall69jasor
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,896
    Sometimes, you gotta take a stand. It'll be back. I was going to give you a lame Top Gun quote, but decided this isn't the audience for it.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    DadsAFOL said:

    Retired with ludicrous speed!

    It's gone plaid!
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,896
    I'd love to make the Spaceballs cruiser, but I don't think it would fit in my 1,000 sq ft. room.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129

    DadsAFOL said:

    Retired with ludicrous speed!

    It's gone plaid!
    did we jam their radar?

  • bp10030bp10030 europeMember Posts: 102
    Is it random or tactic? Each of the following newer lines has got one set gone most unexpected earlier: Friends: Dog Show, MF: Zombies, Architecture: Sungnyemun. The other sets are almost there. Is Lego playing with us keeping the interessts high on each line?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    dougts said:

    DadsAFOL said:

    Retired with ludicrous speed!

    It's gone plaid!
    did we jam their radar?

    I don't know, let me check Mr. RADAR
  • NintendawgNintendawg Member Posts: 18
    So what do the sellers in this thread think about Lego opening a new factory China? Im certainly not happy about it, but here I just want to talk about it's possible implications to resellers.

    Worst case scenario I can think of is that the product is of noticibly poorer quality, with a decreased RRP targetted at local low income buyers. I can see that leading to a huge grey market on Ebay and the like with Asian sellers posting their Lego internationally. Hopefully the boxes will be drastically different, but then sellers would just use stock photos when trying to flog such sets. Plus Bricklink would be flooded by these bricks.

    Thats a lot of ifs, but it pays to plan ahead.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,549
    I'm not too bothered about it. If it is a lego factory run to their specifications, then it is up to them to keep quality up. A lot of people knock the CMF line which is made in China for smelling like it is toxic, or saying it is lower quality. But when I have had issue (2x printing errors, 1x "burnt" plastic on an arm) I have got in contact with Lego and they have arranged for replacement minifigs.
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    edited March 2013
    It's not in TLG's interest to make lower quality product. I very much doubt they would go the route of selling a lower quality product in different markets, not branded as Lego anyway.

    Also if you look at the current retail price of Lego in Asia I don't think there is anything to worry about as far as cheap Lego goes.

    For example the following sets in Korea retail for:

    Death Star $570 USD
    Palace Cinema $188 USD

    And this is cheap compared to South East Asia.
  • Gavin83Gavin83 Member Posts: 251
    In all honesty I think the majority of people really don't care where the products are produced. In fact, if it leads to a reduction in RRP (which it may well do) then they may even be more successful. As long as the quality isn't reduced people will carry on buying regardless, you only have to look at the success of companies using Chinese based production to know this is the case.

    Not sure exactly where it'll leave resellers though, but then Lego really don't care about that.
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    ^ Unfortunately, since the general public are so accustomed to buying the brand, they will absorb any slight decrease in quality.

    This may be obvious, but with increased production capacity, TLG can now easily prolong the life of their popular / profitable lines. So DS and FB may never see retirement afterall.
  • cloaked7cloaked7 Member Posts: 1,448
    I could see LEGO keeping the DS for a long, long time and maybe not retiring it until they had a comparable set to replace it with. It is a quintessential SW set with tons of minifigs and tons of playability. I'm sure it's quite popular although it has been out for a long time.

    I don't see the FB in the same way by any means and I don't see any reasons why LEGO kept it current for as long as they have. Also, the FB finally has an unofficial retirement date, doesn't it?
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    It would be silly to retire the DS with the new Star Wars movies coming out over the next few years.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    edited March 2013
    People, you have to understand that Lego is and always will be mostly fir children. My 7 year old nephew won't care that his Lego set is made in China. My daughters won't care. I didn't care when I was a child playing with my Star Wars and G.I. Joe. All made in Hong Kong. I would love to see ny daughter's reaction when I tell her she can't have anymore toys because they are made in China. Her American Girl is made in China.

    Here in the US you will see bumper stickers that say "out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign". It is hippocritical because I I filled them home and went through their home, I would find that 98% of all the items they own were NOT made in America. Probably most of the the products that their home was built with was made elsewhere and probably built by foreigners.
    RennydougtspharmjodFatMattLootefiskjasor
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    Edit: I need to learn how to type better on this phone
    CCC
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    cloaked7 said:

    I could see LEGO keeping the DS for a long, long time and maybe not retiring it until they had a comparable set to replace it with. It is a quintessential SW set with tons of minifigs and tons of playability. I'm sure it's quite popular although it has been out for a long time.

    I don't see the FB in the same way by any means and I don't see any reasons why LEGO kept it current for as long as they have. Also, the FB finally has an unofficial retirement date, doesn't it?

    What's the unofficial retirement date?

  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    .

    ...Cutting jobs in Denmark only to open a factory in China is a big no-no for me. I have lost alot of respect for TLG a won't be supporting them by making personal purchases or buying for gifts - new hobbies await...

    I see the BS story about producing close to core markets and keeping harmony with their values...ever wonder why there are no factories in the USA (their largest target market) or even Canada? I guess workers rights and fair wages are not part of their values. In the end we all know where future production will be. I see a few more good years left. We are certainly at the end of the golden age.

    I wish Lego would just be honest and state they were building a factory in China to keep costs down in order to stay competitive (or something to that effect). I, too, have lost a bit of respect for them, simply because I dislike being lied to. As effectively mentioned, if they weren't lying, they would put their money where their mouth is and build a factory in the US or Canada. I'll probably still by Lego, though, since very little in the way of desirable toys or hobby products are made in the US or Europe.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,289
    ^^ The unofficial date for the FB is every couple weeks or so for the last several years according to this thread
    KanohimadforLEGOjasor
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    mathew said:

    It would be silly to retire the DS with the new Star Wars movies coming out over the next few years.

    This makes sense in a way, but only if they've updated the minifigs since this set released. Does anyone who's purchased the set recently know if they're using the new head and torso prints for those figures?
  • asmodaiasmodai PortugalMember Posts: 16
    Mine, bought in December at amazon.es, came with Han Solo's heads with pupils. The others I believe were all as in the box picture.
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    edited March 2013

    This will affect my own personal buying habits. Cutting jobs in Denmark only to open a factory in China is a big no-no for me. I have lost alot of respect for TLG a won't be supporting them by making personal purchases or buying for gifts - new hobbies await. I will keep buying to resell while there is still money to be made tho....and money will be made until the brand is no longer collectible....opening a factory in China is certainly going to ding the collectibilty of the brand.

    I see the BS story about producing close to core markets and keeping harmony with their values...ever wonder why there are no factories in the USA (their largest target market) or even Canada? I guess workers rights and fair wages are not part of their values. In the end we all know where future production will be. I see a few more good years left. We are certainly at the end of the golden age.

    I'm sorry, but you are reading the news wrong. The Chinese factory will produce for the Asian markets. Production / jobs from Denmark are being shifted not to China but to Hungary. They are building a completely new plant next to the one they currently operate (they are renting the current one afaik).

    The bulk of production for the European market will be in Hungary. It's a similar move to the USA-Mexico shift but maybe an even less severe one as this time they are keeping it inside the EU (the same big economic entity / market). Of course our wages are a lot lower than Danish ones but workers' rights have to comply with EU standards here as well.

    I call BS on you for giving up a hobby because the producer moves another portion of manufacturing to a different place inside the EU. (A big part of it was already here.) Which shouldn't even concern you. Maybe you should have gave up on them when they moved the NA production to Mexico or when they moved the manufacturing of special parts (for the global market) to China, that would have felt more justifiable. But where do you think should they produce for the Asian market (especially if they want to expand there)?
    pharmjodZeyaindigobox
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    I'm actually surprised the DS wasn't initially a modular thing where you could buy individual floors/minifigs in a few stages then combine to the monster set that it is. Who knows, maybe they could still do that as a way to rekindle interest (assuming it needs rekindling).
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    edited March 2013
    Pitfall69 said:

    People, you have to understand that Lego is and always will be mostly fir children. My 7 year old nephew won't care that his Lego set is made in China. My daughters won't care.

    Until they ingest lead... ;-)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6946425.stm

    Perhaps the original (non-Chinese) sets will carry a premium since they will likely be of higher quality. The trick is trying to determine where a particular set was manufactured.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited March 2013
    Pitfall69 said:

    My 7 year old nephew won't care that his Lego set is made in China. My daughters won't care.

    My boys will, because I will educate them, the same way I educate them about the off-brands :)

    That said, if any company can honestly make a factory in China work as a viable producer of quality goods and not just cheap crap with abused labor, I have faith that Lego can.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    @tensor You voice the slender thread of optimism, and I agree, except I'm pessimistic about the chances.
    As an aside, should the forum have it's own "China" thread? It seems to be topical ground frequently trodden in various other threads.
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    edited March 2013

    Until they ingest lead... ;-)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6946425.stm

    Perhaps the original (non-Chinese) sets will carry a premium since they will likely be of higher quality. The trick is trying to determine where a particular set was manufactured.

    I think it will be easily doable based on languages shown on the box. Real problem for those that want to avoid Chinese stuff will be buying parts loose. (On BL for example.)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    tensor said:

    That said, if any company can honestly make a factory in China work as a viable producer of quality goods and not just cheap crap with abused labor, I have faith that Lego can.

    Plenty of stuff is made in China without being crap in quality. The iPad is the easiest example, that is a well built tablet that holds up to daily use well, doesn't flex, doesn't fall apart, etc. We have owned one since day 1 and our kids play with it almost every day, it takes an amazing amount of abuse (including being dropped), and it keeps right on ticking.

    The thing is, most companies don't ask for quality, they ask for lowest price. If you ask them to make quality, the Chinese are perfectly able to product quality, so long as you're willing to pay for it.
    jadeirenejhuntin1
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    edited March 2013
    ^ Ming Dynasty ceramics is another example that springs to mind.

    seriously, I do agree with the sentiments of LFT, it depends what the remit is.
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633


    ...
    The thing is, most companies don't ask for quality, they ask for lowest price. If you ask them to make quality, the Chinese are perfectly able to product quality, so long as you're willing to pay for it.

    Hopefully TLG has the business savvy to do things beyond "by the book". Knowing which palms to grease goes a long way there.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Hopefully TLG has the business savvy to do things beyond "by the book". Knowing which palms to grease goes a long way there.

    My understanding is that all factories in China have to be China owned, which is why everything over there is a joint-venture.

    One would hope they pick partners that are well connected, I'm sure that goes a long way. Heck, that goes a long way over here too! :)
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    ^ Lets just say the grease needs to be thicker, slicker, and "greener" there than in most western hemisphere.
  • morezonemorezone Member Posts: 207
    As LFT has said, it all boils down to cost. They can produce high quality stuff if it's paid for. A few years ago there was a craze for the Ipod shuffle clone/lookalike. The quality from all the factories were rubbish. Failure rate was really high. However, for just $0.15 more, it would have been much better quality product but the factories and buyers wanted them as cheap as possible since they were just competing with each other and churning them out without a care. If it were a quality branded product, there would have been QC.
    Look at Foxconn. They will produce quality products for clients who ask for it.
  • binaryeyebinaryeye USMember Posts: 1,734
    tensor said:

    I'm actually surprised the DS wasn't initially a modular thing where you could buy individual floors/minifigs in a few stages then combine to the monster set that it is.

    I see the Death Star as more of a marketing tool for the LEGO Star Wars brand. In car terms, sort of like the Acura NSX, Dodge Viper, Nissan GT-R, etc. Relatively few people actually buy such cars, but the models create interest in their respective brands and convey certain characteristics associated with the brand. In that regard, a single huge set is more impressive, and has more value to LEGO, than multiple smaller sets that can be combined.

    Perhaps the original (non-Chinese) sets will carry a premium since they will likely be of higher quality. The trick is trying to determine where a particular set was manufactured.

    There should be no trick needed. The press release states that sets manufactured in China will be sold in the Asian market. Presumably, sets purchased in European or North American markets won't be manufactured in China.

    Of course, sets sold by third parties could have come from anywhere. This is particularly interesting in light of yesterday's news that the US Supreme Court decided to uphold the First Sale Doctrine in Kirtsaeng vs. Wiley. If sets bought in Asia can be resold for profit in the US, it may divide the third-party market into Chinese and non-Chinese sets.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405

    Pitfall69 said:

    People, you have to understand that Lego is and always will be mostly fir children. My 7 year old nephew won't care that his Lego set is made in China. My daughters won't care.

    Until they ingest lead... ;-)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6946425.stm

    Perhaps the original (non-Chinese) sets will carry a premium since they will likely be of higher quality. The trick is trying to determine where a particular set was manufactured.
    I was born in 1971 and pretty much all my toys had lead paint in them. Also, asbestos in the ceilings and lead in the paint that I used to peel from walls. I drank out of plastic hoses in summer and none of my plastic anything was bpa free. I'm still here and healthy. There are a lot of Chinese and other Asian products that are well made.
    tensor said:

    Pitfall69 said:

    My 7 year old nephew won't care that his Lego set is made in China. My daughters won't care.

    My boys will, because I will educate them, the same way I educate them about the off-brands :)

    That said, if any company can honestly make a factory in China work as a viable producer of quality goods and not just cheap crap with abused labor, I have faith that Lego can.
    I agree with you about off brands, but if my daughter wants a Power Wheels, she's going to get a Power Wheels :)
    indigobox
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    ^I also agree that the Chinese discussion should be continued in another thread.
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    edited March 2013
    Pitfall69 said:

    I was born in 1971 and pretty much all my toys had lead paint in them. Also, asbestos in the ceilings and lead in the paint that I used to peel from walls. I drank out of plastic hoses in summer and none of my plastic anything was bpa free. I'm still here and healthy. There are a lot of Chinese and other Asian products that are well made.

    Also, back in '71 seat-belts weren't required and I wasn't killed in a car accident. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let my kids ride without seat-belts. :)

    I realize that many product that we use are manufactured in China; however, we do our best to avoid any toy products that are manufactured in China and sold ultimately to/for kids. If China has no conscience when it comes to their own kids, they certainly aren't going to have a conscience when it comes to mine. Probably the most unethical country on the planet!
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    ^I understand, but I don't think Lego will let the Chinese destroy their reputation.

    I don't want to get into a human rights and political discussion :)

    We are already way off topic. I need to go buy more DS's
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    ^ :-)

    I've watched (been a part of) more than one company that has outsourced to China. The result was not good... I do hope you are correct. And if they let China consume the Lego products they manufacture, that is great. But I doubt Chinese Lego products will stay in China.

    So back on topic...are you implying the DSs are going away? :-)
  • 111ins111ins Member Posts: 265
    maybe a last hoorah for the DS on May 4th?

    funny thing is that May 4 is my daughter's birthday and I thought I was a decent SW fan, but until she was born I had not heard it referred to as Star Wars day.

    better buy her a DS!
    FollowsClosely
  • epyon396epyon396 Member Posts: 268
    edited March 2013
    111ins said:

    better buy her a DS!

    A real one.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^^"May the 4th be with you" and the less loved sequel "Revenge of the 5th".
  • leemcgleemcg Member Posts: 607
    111ins said:



    funny thing is that May 4 is my daughter's birthday and I thought I was a decent SW fan, but until she was born I had not heard it referred to as Star Wars day.

    My daughter's birthday is also May 4th. Is have a Leia costume for her 2nd birthday soon (which I've had since she was one but it was too big). Is that wrong?
  • Ma1234Ma1234 Member Posts: 693
    binaryeye said:

    tensor said:



    Of course, sets sold by third parties could have come from anywhere. This is particularly interesting in light of yesterday's news that the US Supreme Court decided to uphold the First Sale Doctrine in Kirtsaeng vs. Wiley. If sets bought in Asia can be resold for profit in the US, it may divide the third-party market into Chinese and non-Chinese sets.

    Why do people bring this up? Copyright law doesn't apply to toys. End of story. In no way, shape or form does that case have any single iota of bearing on toy selling.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Last I checked, there is a copyright statement on the bottom of every LEGO box and on the back of every set of instructions.

    The bricks themselves are not copyrighted, but the boxes and instructions sure are.
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited March 2013
    Ma1234 said:

    Why do people bring this up? Copyright law doesn't apply to toys. End of story. In no way, shape or form does that case have any single iota of bearing on toy selling.

    Sorry, but that's hopelessly wrong. The most straightforward example I can give is that any unauthorised party copying a toy's packaging* can face an action for infringement of copyright.

    Now, it is the case that a company like TLG relies far more heavily on enforcement actions relating to its brands. This is because brand enforcement is generally easier and less expensive to run. There are various presumption issues and burdens of proof to start with.

    * I think we can readily agree that packaging is part of what consumers buy when they buy a LEGO "toy". Just look at the endless discussions of boxes and their condition on here.
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited March 2013

    The bricks themselves are not copyrighted, but the boxes and instructions sure are.

    Not "the bricks themselves", but, as far as I know, the patterns applied to bricks, including stickers, are the subject of copyright.

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