Toys R Us...R U For Real?

JP3804

I received a survey from them about 6 weeks ago.

It was asking about what kind, where and how often you buy toys.

I asssumed it was because I used to by hundreds of sets a year from them and last year I only bought about ten.

I told them in the comment section it was because of their inflated prices.

I doubt it will do much good.

Sherlockbones

I think I know what we should do.
You may of heard of the london riots, brickfans I give you the toys r us riots.




I think they wont budge until people stop buying lego off them

Chang405

People (the general public) who buy Lego from Toys r Us will continue to do so. People who come to this forum will seldom if ever buy from them. Luckily for Toys r Us the the general people far out number forum people.

So good luck getting Toys r Us to change their ways. Its working for them so why should they change?

Yellowcastle

^ That's the same argument the movie industry makes every year. Higher prices times less customers can only be successful so long...

BrickDancer

^imagine if they charged $1 per ticket for Episode VII and got everybody in the US to go, since heck it's only a buck. That's ~$350M in tickets plus a couple $B in concession sales. But alas that's not how capitalism (or logic) works.

LegoFanTexas

^ If the movie is any good, I don't really care if it is $1 or $10, I'll go see it.

Actually, I'll go see it regardless, I was there at 12:01am for Episode 1, and 7 can't suck as much as 1 did, can it?

Wait, forget I said that! :)

CCC

tensor said:

^Unfortunate for us because if the sheep didn't continue to gobble up overpriced Lego, TRU would be forced to reduce their prices overall, and we wouldn't have to play the TRU bargain game (which becomes more convoluted and tedious every year).

Styer said:

I think it's unfortunate for us because it means that it's less likely that market pressure will bring down the prices.

I still don't see why that is a problem. Other stores sell lego, so buy from them instead. You don't have to shop at TRU, ever, whether at their prices, at RRP or at their sale prices. In fact, buy direct from the manufacturer's website at RRP plus postage.

Pacific493

BrickDancer said:

^imagine if they charged $1 per ticket for Episode VII and got everybody in the US to go, since heck it's only a buck. That's ~$350M in tickets plus a couple $B in concession sales. But alas that's not how capitalism (or logic) works.

But you're assuming that Episode VII would have a high level of price elasticity such that a significant reduction in price would result in a significant increase in attendance. I don't think that consumers of that movie in particular are going to be particularly price sensitive. Whether you charge $1, $5, $10 or $25, there is a huge population out there that will pay to see the movie, so if you're the studio, why charge $1 when you know a significant number of people who would pay $1 would pay 10x as much?

Back to the original topic, TRU's prices suck a** until they don't. Right after I went off about their prices earlier in this thread, I ended up buying a bunch of sets from them when they were doing the holiday BOGO and the $10 off $100 promo...it was one of the rare moments when they actually had decent prices.

cheshirecat

Yellowcastle said:

I just left my neighborhood Toys R Us in Fair Lakes VA and I'm just finally fed up:

#9471 - Uruk Hai Army $41
#6858 - Catwoman Catcycle Chase $18.50
#9468 - Vampyre Castle $121
#7498 - Police Station $132
# - Duplo Zoo $121
#75001 - Sith Battlepack $16.50
#9496 - Desert Skiff $36
#79000 - Riddles for the Ring $14.50

I've decided I'm going to write TLG. How many families have to get gouged? Worse yet, how many families are abandoning LEGO based on these inflated TRU prices?

I'm sorry but I wonder how many of those reading this comment, or even worse that liked this comment, sold Minecraft sets for >> RRP?

How many families had to get gouged? Worse yet, how many families abandoned LEGO based on those inflated prices? At Christmas as well?

What's Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

You can think their sales policies are stupid all you like, I'd agree with that, but on a moral level why treat TRU any different from half the members of this forum?

BrickDancer

^With power comes responsibility to set the tone or control the game. TRU started first with their opportunistic markups, which spread to Target late last year. There's only Walmart and Lego B&M left as major channels. So shouldn't we wise up as customers and make our opinion be known by hitting TRU from both ends? But alas, capitalism principals tell us they are doing the right thing by squeezing as many dollars out of us as they can since demand is there.

Pacific493 said:

Whether you charge $1, $5, $10 or $25, there is a huge population out there that will pay to see the movie, so if you're the studio, why charge $1 when you know a significant number of people who would pay $1 would pay 10x as much?

Logic of money dictates that you raise the price point to meet equilibrium and realize max revenue. But if you view the SW franchise's total lifetime earnings from ticket sales, DVD/BR sales, direct merchandise, indirect licensing and royalties. Then I'm guessing theater ticket sales for Ep. I-VI are a minor part of the pie. Rest being made up of consumer spending on related merchandise, so big picture thinking leads to expanding your audience base by using the new trilogy as a launch for the next generation of fans. Fastest way is providing free fuel for that fire to spread quick and big. Same logic for cheap printers and expensive ink. But this kind of long term strategy is too costly up front to be supported by execs who work by the Quarter.

CCC

BrickDancer said:

^With power comes responsibility to set the tone or control the game. TRU started first with their opportunistic markups, which spread to Target late last year. There's only Walmart and Lego B&M left as major channels. So shouldn't we wise up as customers and make our opinion be known by hitting TRU from both ends?

What do you mean by both ends? Surely if TRU (where it seems most people say there is awful service) and Target are selling items at above RRP, then you just buy at lego.com (where most people say they have great customer service).

If you can buy cheaper elsewhere, then buy cheaper elsewhere. That is one end covered. What is the other end?

pvancil27

cheshirecat said:

I'm sorry but I wonder how many of those reading this comment, or even worse that liked this comment, sold Minecraft sets for >> RRP?

How many families had to get gouged? Worse yet, how many families abandoned LEGO based on those inflated prices? At Christmas as well?

What's Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

You can think their sales policies are stupid all you like, I'd agree with that, but on a moral level why treat TRU any different from half the members of this forum?

Never even looked at it that way. Totally agree though. Large level of hypocrisy to me.

TheLoneTensor

We get that we can shop elsewhere, really. We actually realized that before you mentioned it, twice.

The point is, TRU has a great selection, including many exclusives (Technic) & hard to find, so, it's irritating that such a reachable source of Lego doesn't want to play by the same rules as other retailers, and instead, soak ignorant families because they can.

binaryeye

tensor said:

TRU started first with their opportunistic markups, which spread to Target late last year.

When was, or where is, Target doing this? They don't often have anything below RRP, but I haven't seen anything above RRP there.

BrickDancer

CCC said:

If you can buy cheaper elsewhere, then buy cheaper elsewhere. That is one end covered. What is the other end?

Their Supplier side by bringing TLG's attention to the matter. Whether they care or not is another question.

LegoFanTexas

cheshirecat said:

I'm sorry but I wonder how many of those reading this comment, or even worse that liked this comment, sold Minecraft sets for >> RRP?

The problem with that thought is that we didn't buy minecraft for 30% off RRP, we paid full price, plus shipping much of the time.

So we can't really go and sell it for RRP, now can we?

After paying fees, selling Minecraft for 2x RRP nets us about as much as TRU would make at retail price.

Yellowcastle

cheshirecat said:

Yellowcastle said:

I just left my neighborhood Toys R Us in Fair Lakes VA and I'm just finally fed up. I've decided I'm going to write TLG. How many families have to get gouged? Worse yet, how many families are abandoning LEGO based on these inflated TRU prices?

I'm sorry but I wonder how many of those reading this comment, or even worse that liked this comment, sold Minecraft sets for >> RRP?

How many families had to get gouged? Worse yet, how many families abandoned LEGO based on those inflated prices? At Christmas as well?

What's Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

You can think their sales policies are stupid all you like, I'd agree with that, but on a moral level why treat TRU any different from half the members of this forum?

I'm not sure your correlation of individual aftermarket resellers to this LEGO Disributor is on point, let alone on topic. TLG may be perfectly happy with TRU's pricing as it softens the market for TLG's inevitable next price increase. But I see no harm in letting them know my concerns about their partner....concerns both for the common families as well as the brand health. What they do with my concerns is of course up to them. I realize that US prices are already more reasonable than others; but within this specific market, 30+% over RRP just seems wrong to me.

One last point. I get it. Some of you hate many if not all of the aftermarket resellers and/or their practices. Is there any chance that we can keep those opinions from spilling into any/every thread here?

jasor

I treat TRU for what it is: My personal inventory stock. If/when I get something there, it's on my terms, and for a calculated reason. The other day my TRU had 6 Helm's Deeps sitting there for $139.99 ($10+ RRP), and the $20.00 off $100.00 applied. $119.00 is a good price all day long for that set, considering it NOWHERE in any of the other B&M stores locally.

They will mark up what they mark up. Maybe they get washed for it sooner or later, but business is business.

doriansdad

Chang405 said:

So good luck getting Toys r Us to change their ways. Its working for them so why should they change?

It is hardly working for this company. Bain Capital is doing everything they can to recoup their investment in this dog. They are losing money big time. Bankruptcy will not be too far away for this outfit saddled by $5B of debt. There is no way they can compete with Amazon and Walmart.

TheLoneTensor

binaryeye said:

tensor said:

TRU started first with their opportunistic markups, which spread to Target late last year.

When was, or where is, Target doing this? They don't often have anything below RRP, but I haven't seen anything above RRP there.

I didn't write that, @BrickDancer did.

LegoFanTexas

doriansdad said:

It is hardly working for this company. Bain Capital is doing everything they can to recoup their investment in this dog. They are losing money big time. Bankruptcy will not be too far away for this outfit saddled by $5B of debt. There is no way they can compete with Amazon and Walmart.

You aren't kidding!

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=120622&p=irol-sec

I just took a quick look at their most recent 10-Q filing, what a mess of a balance sheet!

The company is already bankrupt, it is just a question if they can slowly earn their way back out of it, but as it stands now, they could make several hundred million dollars by going through a Chapter 11, if they could get exit financing, which would be hard at this point, given the overweight of debt.

CCC

tensor said:

The point is, TRU has a great selection, including many exclusives (Technic) & hard to find, so, it's irritating that such a reachable source of Lego doesn't want to play by the same rules as other retailers, and instead, soak ignorant families because they can.

So in the US, do they have exclusives that even lego do not sell?

I somehow doubt lego care what TRU sell items for. RRP / MRSP are just recommended prices, not trade agreements. I thought normally (manufacturing) companies wanted to ensure retailers don't sell their items too cheap, not too expensive. I imagine TRU sells them for what they want or they give lego the heave-ho if they try and impose maximum prices. (Again, I imagine) losing TRU as a retailer would be a big blow for lego. Lots of families use TRU, and it is a shop window for lego.

If you want to complain about companies not "playing by the rules" - complain to lego about them charging above RRP if you order online. For example, in the UK, amazon, play, ... sell lego at or below RRP and do not charge for postage. Whereas lego charge for postage, thus charge above RRP. So why don't they play by the same rules?

Online orders should be cheaper since they don't have the retail store costs, yet they still charge full RRP plus postage.

cheshirecat

@Yellowcastle My post was (i hope) clearly not about resellers or any feelings towards them. Rather that parts of that post in the context of most posts on the forum and more so the 'like' it received from some members here was stinking of hypocrisy (just to be clear i have no idea if you resell let alone resold minecrafts). That was my issue, writing a letter is great maybe mention resellers too, but the comments about families and being put off Lego were the issue for me. The standard defence of resellers appears to be free market economics, thats fair enough but then the same very people can't complain about TRU doing as they please.

@LegoFanTexas true, but they can still charge what they like and if its too expensive people won't buy it. I agree its stupid but its their stupid decision to make. They don't have a monopoly, its not an essential product or service blar blar blar. (These arguments don't half sound familiar!) You know what else, its generally what 20=30% above RRP not 100-200% above RRP. Also, whilst they may get it 30% off they also have far bigger overheads to cover than at most 10% ebay fees and 3% paypal. I would love to see a reseller open a shop or even better a chain of b&m shops across the world, stock it with lego bought through the correct channels, pay staff salaries and tax and still manage to sell at or below RRP.

BrickDancer

binaryeye said:

tensor said:

TRU started first with their opportunistic markups, which spread to Target late last year.

When was, or where is, Target doing this? They don't often have anything below RRP, but I haven't seen anything above RRP there.

http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/comment/58156/#Comment_58156

They've stopped that practice after a while, haven't seen many cases in the past lately fortunately.

Picopirate

doriansdad said:

Chang405 said:

So good luck getting Toys r Us to change their ways. Its working for them so why should they change?

It is hardly working for this company. Bain Capital is doing everything they can to recoup their investment in this dog. They are losing money big time. Bankruptcy will not be too far away for this outfit saddled by $5B of debt. There is no way they can compete with Amazon and Walmart.

They liquidated the wrong company. If i recall correctly kb was in trouble but was not doing too bad until bane consolidated debt from other assets and put that on the kb books.

CCC

cheshirecat said:

I would love to see a reseller open a shop or even better a chain of b&m shops across the world, stock it with lego bought through the correct channels, pay staff salaries and tax and still manage to sell at or below RRP.

Amazon buy through the correct channels, pay staff salaries and tax and still manage to sell at or below RRP and include delivery costs too. :-)

Poochy

BrickDancer said:

They've stopped that practice after a while, haven't seen many cases in the past lately fortunately.

Not quite, at least in SoCal, as a couple of the TGs around me are selling the police station #7498 for $120 (or $20 above MSRP).

dragonhawk

I hope TRU does not go under. I actually love finding the actual deals during their bogo50, b2g1, or get $x off $y promotions. The deals are there but hard to find, which makes the "hunt" more fun.

TRU is in the same predicament as Best Buy and Office Depot. Their main selling point is their ability provide wide selections in their niche markets. The overhead associated with running B&M stores make it very hard to compete with online retailers.

TheLoneTensor

CCC said:

tensor said:

The point is, TRU has a great selection, including many exclusives (Technic) & hard to find, so, it's irritating that such a reachable source of Lego doesn't want to play by the same rules as other retailers, and instead, soak ignorant families because they can.

So in the US, do they have exclusives that even lego do not sell?

I somehow doubt lego care what TRU sell items for. RRP / MRSP are just recommended prices, not trade agreements. I thought normally (manufacturing) companies wanted to ensure retailers don't sell their items too cheap, not too expensive. I imagine TRU sells them for what they want or they give lego the heave-ho if they try and impose maximum prices. (Again, I imagine) losing TRU as a retailer would be a big blow for lego. Lots of families use TRU, and it is a shop window for lego.

If you want to complain about companies not "playing by the rules" - complain to lego about them charging above RRP if you order online. For example, in the UK, amazon, play, ... sell lego at or below RRP and do not charge for postage. Whereas lego charge for postage, thus charge above RRP. So why don't they play by the same rules?

I don't quite know what point you're trying to make, but you do like to go back and forth with people a lot. It's a last-word kinda thing. I get it.

I'm not writing anything more than my opinion of TRU, and I'm certainly not trying to incite anyone to do anything except make intelligent, well-informed decisions regarding what retailers they wish to do business with.

Yellowcastle

LBR/[email protected] don't sell the TRU truck. This is really more the exception.

brclark82

I placed a BOGO 50 off order last week and went to the PO today to pick it up and they told me TRU hadn't paid enough shipping and I owed $28 to pick up my package!!! In their defense they did the right thing and just took my word for it and refunded the amount I owed to my original form of payment and then I just paid the PO. Glad they took care of it instead of making me refuse it and have it reshipped.

madforLEGO

Poochy said:

BrickDancer said:

They've stopped that practice after a while, haven't seen many cases in the past lately fortunately.

Not quite, at least in SoCal, as a couple of the TGs around me are selling the police station #7498 for $120 (or $20 above MSRP).

Target.com is also selling (or attempting to sell) The Fire Brigade for 170+

CCC

tensor said:

CCC said:

tensor said:

The point is, TRU has a great selection, including many exclusives (Technic) & hard to find, so, it's irritating that such a reachable source of Lego doesn't want to play by the same rules as other retailers, and instead, soak ignorant families because they can.

So in the US, do they have exclusives that even lego do not sell?

I somehow doubt lego care what TRU sell items for. RRP / MRSP are just recommended prices, not trade agreements. I thought normally (manufacturing) companies wanted to ensure retailers don't sell their items too cheap, not too expensive. I imagine TRU sells them for what they want or they give lego the heave-ho if they try and impose maximum prices. (Again, I imagine) losing TRU as a retailer would be a big blow for lego. Lots of families use TRU, and it is a shop window for lego.

If you want to complain about companies not "playing by the rules" - complain to lego about them charging above RRP if you order online. For example, in the UK, amazon, play, ... sell lego at or below RRP and do not charge for postage. Whereas lego charge for postage, thus charge above RRP. So why don't they play by the same rules?

I don't quite know what point you're trying to make, but you do like to go back and forth with people a lot. It's a last-word kinda thing. I get it.

I'm not writing anything more than my opinion of TRU, and I'm certainly not trying to incite anyone to do anything except make intelligent, well-informed decisions regarding what retailers they wish to do business with.

The point is, some stores sell items for more than RRP. Including lego.com if you want it delivered. Whereas others (eg amazon) sell it for RRP or less, including delivery.

You can chose to buy from TRU, from lego.com or amazon, or a multitude of other stores. There is free choice. From what I can tell it is very rare for an item to be only available from one company, and not also direct from lego. In that case, the store would have paid a premium or had some other deal to secure that item. In that case, what lego say it is worth is meaningless - they can issue a guide price, but you also need to factor in the retailers costs, including what they think it has cost them to sell it. If lego wanted it sold at the exact price they set and no higher, then they either have to make that agreement with the store, or they should not do a truly exclusive deal and also sell it themselves. If they sell for RRP and someone else wants to sell it for RRP+10% or 50%, then customers have choice. Travel to a lego store and pick it off the shelf at RRP, buy from a lego.com and pay their postage costs, or use the convenience of buying locally from a TRU and pay their price.

And if someone contradicts me or tells me I am wrong, yes I will say why I think they are wrong. That is what a debate is about.

TheLoneTensor

Reading back, nobody said you were wrong or was debating with you really.

And again, you're saying that I or anyone else has the ability to choose to buy or not buy from any retailer. Got it.

DavidBrickley

I agree that TRU's prices are overly inflated at times, but I use this information to make more informed purchases. I still shop at TRU, but as mentioned above, on my terms. The last BOGO, I was more than happy to get 2x Helms Deep sets for $210 + tax. Is it as cheap as others have found on clearance at Wal-Mart? No, but it sure beats missing out all together. Likewise on the minifigures, polybags, and when sets like the smaller Friends packs are at MSRP + BOGO.

When I am in the store, and encounter parents/grandparents acting shocked at the prices, I try to educate them. Most prices are higher, but taking advantage of promotions"may" get you less than MSRP. Most of the people I talk to, I believe, don't frequent a forum like this, or really understand how TRU operates regarding their pricing policies (which are not just on Lego). And most, after I explain that BOGO only really benefits you if your buying two sets of comparable price, will buy a big set and a polybag.

TRU prices are inflated above MSRP, we all know that. Shop there or not, the price you're willing to pay is determined by you, as is the value of your purchases.

Poochy

I was at TRU yesterday (er, buying for a friend of a friend) and the lady in the checkout line ahead of me asked the cashier if they pricematch Amazon. To my surprise, he said that they do, so she showed him a screenshot on her phone and he PM'ed it right there and then (i.e. no manager override). I did not think this was official policy, so maybe it was something specific to my store. Good to know though in case I need to pick up a mint box.

SteakyBoy

How nice of them to price match Amazon for you, they wouldn't even price match their own site for me today. I received email about $20 off $75 or more in store. Saw Mines of Moria for 79.99 on site and figured 59.99 + tax would be good deal. Get to store, zap the price checker and TRU had it priced at $115.99 marked down to $95.99. Minus the $20, assuming not sale price, down to $75.99...big frikkin deal. So I asked Manager if she would match her website price, and she said there are fees due to shipping rates and blah diddy blah, which is why web price is better, and she probably couldn't match site price AND give me the $20 off deal. What a joke, maybe bad store manager, not sure...very frustrating. I also went in because 2 other items were on sale per the website, thanks to promotions, and they were on sale, elevated price of course and not as cheap as the website sale price...Total boondoggle! Needless to say, my 3 year old and 2 year old made out like champs, at Daddy's expense. Thank goodness for the 4 10212s I have scored in the past month, 2 at BOGO, at that dump, or I would be done with the place!

Poochy

^ It's their policy not stack coupons/discounts on top of a PM (even against their website). The coupons/discounts is only applicable to the "regular" (i.e. store) price, and a PM invalidates that :). I know some people have been lucky at their stores and got things to stack, but it has never worked for me at multiple stores.

LegoFanTexas

Poochy said:

^ It's their policy not stack coupons/discounts on top of a PM (even against their website). The coupons/discounts is only applicable to the "regular" (i.e. store) price, and a PM invalidates that :). I know some people have been lucky at their stores and got things to stack, but it has never worked for me at multiple stores.

^ This actually makes sense to me...

If Amazon has a set on sale for 25% off, that is a better deal than $20 off $100. It doesn't seem reasonable to expect $20 off $100 plus the price match of 25% off.

wagnerml2

This time of year TRU sets tend to gather dust, but walk down that aisle in early December and its empty. Not sure how many sales they lose between now and then, but the markup must make up for it. Jabba's Palace for $149....Geez!. I always go into TRU just looking for polybags. Once in a great while I'll find a store only special. Bought a Palpatine's arrest two weeks ago for $69 on an unadvertised sale. Other than that, the misinformed soccer moms drive the sales at my local TRU.

Poochy

^^ Right, and I'm actually OK with that, especially now that I know they will PM Amazon sale price (which will most likely beat any TRU stacking combo by a mile). I'm just happy that I can pick my own box at TG and TRU now, thanks to Amazon (which now charges tax in CA so there's no incentive for me to order there anymore in these cases :).

mdelleman

Heated.

Toys r us - Capitalism at its finest. A free market is just that.

I wish there were more local stores that could do volume so I could walk in and find sales but I believe those days are over. I shop online (50% of the time) and research everything I buy. Those who wish to throw money away may do so of they are so inclined to do so.

I rarely ever buy LEGO from TRU but my kids sure love going in there and showing me what they want and that is easily worth the $500 I spend there yearly.

CCC

mdelleman said:

I shop online (50% of the time) and research everything I buy. Those who wish to throw money away may do so of they are so inclined to do so.

For every one of you (and me) I am sure there is someone that says that "those that wish to throw their time away may do so if they are so inclined, just to save $10 (or insert other amount)".

Basta

@CCC Time is Money as they say. I know I sometimes I pay full RRP ($5 AUD) for CMF's just because I can't wait for a sale or get to the store that sell them for $4, I justify it by saying "its just $5". I'm sure there is lots of people more baller then me who say the same thing about a $50 or $100 set.

SteakyBoy

Probably overreacted during initial post, just find myself walking outta there sad for all the people that spend there money on marked up items or feel they got a deal with BOGO and everything is inflated.

bigjsd

I hate TRU pricing but is it really unfair pricing? A fair price is any price people are willing to pay. Don't like the price, buy elsewhere or make them price match. I work very close to TRU and I go in often to just browse the Lego section and I see someone buying a set almost everytime I am in there. I doubt there pricing policy will change anytime soon.

wagnerml2

My Grandma (god rest her soul) bought everything at Nieman Marcus. Her theory was if it cost more, it must be better.......God love her!

jasor

wagnerml2 said:

My Grandma (god rest her soul) bought everything at Nieman Marcus. Her theory was if it cost more, it must be better.......God love her!

That's great!!!

bigjsd said:

I hate TRU pricing but is it really unfair pricing? A fair price is any price people are willing to pay. Don't like the price, buy elsewhere or make them price match. I work very close to TRU and I go in often to just browse the Lego section and I see someone buying a set almost everytime I am in there. I doubt there pricing policy will change anytime soon.

Really...I agree. I think the likelihood of paying those prices is what keeps them well stocked with items no one else can keep, however. That has to hurt them at some point.

prevere

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but with TRU's ridiculous over-retail prices, I find it strange their "retail" price for HH is $170 - $10 UNDER retail.

BlueMoonUSA

True. Although I don't believe I've ever seen it in stock or available for shipping.