John Lewis Price Matching

Matthew

This discussion was created from comments split from: [UK] John Lewis Deals.

KTA

Do John lewis online only price match online prices now or do they still price match instore prices aswell?

cheshirecat

Don't start me on that one... I had a mamoth discussion with JL CS over that issue. I eventually reached someone high up who categorically said that they still price match proper stores (after all there is an option for it on the online form) but had the original CS person pointing to all kinds of terms and conditions that didn't say what she thought they did.

CCC

I've also had some turned down, but some accepted. However, they have been imposing some crazy numbers recently. Most of my recent matches they have said one only, for CMF they said I could buy three.

KTA

@‌cheshirecat Ive been going back and forth over the last few days with them and Ive asked them exactly the same thing, why is there an option on the online form, I said I haven been doing this for years and is this a new procedure, they just said this should have always been in place but errors can be made, my first price match was the helicarriers for £12 and been doing it since.

Now I get this:

"Unfortunately, here at John Lewis.com, we deal with online price matching for items purchased through the website rather than in store price matches - this has to be done via your local branch as we are different parts of the John Lewis company.

We are more than happy to price match claims when the item is available for purchasing online but we are not able to price match on behalf of a John Lewis store due to restrictions in the business.

These restrictions are in place to enable the company a greater control over stock and allow for better customer service, rather than centralising a larger amount of stock.

We have a process called Local Price Matching, which can be done through your local John Lewis branch. To do this you can visit your local branch or alternatively call one of our branch advisors on your local stores number, who will be happy to help you process this price match.

Whichever of these options (by calling or visiting the branch) is best for you, we can still arrange a delivery for you to your home address if it would be more convenient for you."

CCC

Never knowingly unsold*

* subject to rather a lot of rules that we'll interpret how we like.

Venunder

"Never knowingly undersold."
I believe they will have to rethink that strategy.

It used to work well when they were only price matching the local stores and national chain stores.
However since the advent of internet selling, the market place is completely different now and much more fast moving.
Particularly with the super market chains like Tesco and Asda moving into electronics, clothes, etc.

We should all remember that shops can choose not to sell to any customer.
Also that buying things at a discount is a "privilege" and not a "right".

cheshirecat

Totally agree, and normally if refused a price match its not mentioned again, but here I thought they were making rules up as they go along. when I got through to a manager that's what they said although perhaps to shut me up.

Xefan

Venunder said:

We should all remember that shops can choose not to sell to any customer.
Also that buying things at a discount is a "privilege" and not a "right".

Yeah, that's what Tesco said. Worked out really well for them.

Sounds like JL has decided to pursue the TRU method of price matching - claim to offer it as something your store does but put every barrier in the way possible to prevent customers actually making use of it.

But I've long barely seen the point of price matching anyway, it's always seemed a bit of a con. If they're going to make me jump through hoops to get it at a competitive price then it's not really worth wasting time with them in the first place.

If price match was hassle free at places that claim to offer it then I'd probably make use of it, but I think never has the hassle been worth the discount in question. I'd rather just buy where it's cheaper in the first place, wait until it's discounted again if I missed a deal, or just pay a slightly higher price not to have to deal with shit companies in the first place.

Companies like TRU always made price matching at their store not worth the hassle so I never go there at all now. It's a bit sad to see JL going down the same route.

CCC

Venunder said:

We should all remember that shops can choose not to sell to any customer.
Also that buying things at a discount is a "privilege" and not a "right".

Yes, we should remember that. I've never kicked up a fuss if I have had a price match refused, I just don't buy the item from them. Often I don't buy other stuff from them either.

Stores should also remember that customers choose which stores to buy from. Not just discounted items but regular items too. If stores annoy customers over a saving a few pounds when it appears the price match criteria have been met, that may be enough to keep the buyer out of their store longer term. When I price match, I will often go instore to collect. Going instore often means you see something else that you may purchase either there and then, or later on. If you feel good at saving a bit on something, you may spend on something else.

richo

Venunder said:

"Never knowingly undersold."
I believe they will have to rethink that strategy.

It used to work well when they were only price matching the local stores and national chain stores.
However since the advent of internet selling, the market place is completely different now and much more fast moving.
Particularly with the super market chains like Tesco and Asda moving into electronics, clothes, etc.

We should all remember that shops can choose not to sell to any customer.
Also that buying things at a discount is a "privilege" and not a "right".

Always thought that tag line never makes sense. Shouldn't it be never knowingly oversold. It's confusing either way, and I got good English grades at school.

TigerMoth

richo said:

Always thought that tag line never makes sense. Shouldn't it be never knowingly oversold. It's confusing either way, and I got good English grades at school.

Never knowingly undersold by another retailer.

Really?

If so, how is that, once one person has got a price match, they don't reduce the price for everybody else? The first person has told them they are being undersold, presumably because they don't know. They should stop doing it once they do know.

paul_merton

It does seem a bit sticky for them to continue using "Never knowingly undersold" in their marketing when they do indeed know that they are being undersold. Surely that slogan's days are numbered.

DougTemplar

paul_merton said:

It does seem a bit sticky for them to continue using "Never knowingly undersold" in their marketing when they do indeed know that they are being undersold. Surely that slogan's days are numbered.

That is an interesting question to put to the Advertising Standards Agency or whoever looks at such things.

CCC

For the internet side, they would wriggle out of it because they could claim that they were only being undersold in one particular area not nationally - that is possibly why they are changing to go down this route. They can then also state that if a customer informs them they are being undersold by another retailer, then they will always put it right for that customer. That is probably enough to get trading standards off their backs if there was a complaint.

Xefan

Given that the ASA said it was fine for Broadband providers to advertise Broadband as unlimited even if it actually wasn't, providing it was unlimited in practice for 90% of customers then I don't expect any rationality from them anyway. It similarly allows Amazon to advertise next day guaranteed delivery, except it's okay when it doesn't turn up next day, as long as it does in most cases.

The ASA is happy for words to be redefined at will. Rather than do what it should, and just stop telling them to use the words "unlimited" and "guaranteed" which have explicit meanings in English that these companies offerings simply and unquestionably do not adhere to. If there are limits it's not unlimited, and if it sometimes doesn't turn up, then it's obviously not guaranteed.

I'm sure the ASA would be just as happy to let JL redefine the word "knowingly" to mean whatever JL wants it to mean.

You might have more luck with trading standards though, they don't seem to be quite such a bunch of jobsworths.

TigerMoth

CCC said:

For the internet side, they would wriggle out of it because they could claim that they were only being undersold in one particular area not nationally - that is possibly why they are changing to go down this route. They can then also state that if a customer informs them they are being undersold by another retailer, then they will always put it right for that customer. That is probably enough to get trading standards off their backs if there was a complaint.

The slogan is a con. They don't reduce the price when they are made aware of something being cheaper elsewhere, and yet continue selling it. The slogan is a direct lie as they are then knowingly undersold. So much for "never".

The con is that people are likely to interpret the slogan as meaning their prices are the cheapest - and indeed, they should probably have a reasonable expectation of that.

KingDave

It is all in the wording, there is a subtle but important difference between "Never knowingly undersold" and "Never knowingly underpriced".

If an individual approaches them for a price match the implication is that you were about to buy from the other shop. They were about to be underSOLD because the sale was imminent and measurable. Only when an individual approaches them are they made aware that they are about to be undersold and there fore the policy kicks in (its a bit like schrodinger's cat). If they are not aware of a sale at another shop (at a lower price) than they are not 'knowingly' undersold, because nobody told them about that individual sale.

If the policy was "Never knowingly underpriced" than they would be obliged to change their price for everyone as soon as someone told them about it.

aldredd

I believe this is why they updated the slogan a couple of years ago. It's no longer just 'Never knowingly undersold' but 'Never knowingly undersold on Quality, Price & Service'. ie, if they don't want to price match, they'll argue they offer 3yr warranty vs 1 year etc.

paul_merton

aldredd said:

I believe this is why they updated the slogan a couple of years ago. It's no longer just 'Never knowingly undersold' but 'Never knowingly undersold on Quality, Price & Service'. ie, if they don't want to price match, they'll argue they offer 3yr warranty vs 1 year etc.

Did they? http://www.johnlewis.com/inspiration-and-advice/never-knowingly-undersold-policy

aldredd

Yes - look at the headings

aldredd

...and an article from 2011 regarding it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/8306722/John-Lewis-alters-never-knowingly-undersold-promise.html

paul_merton

The title of the page and the top-level heading is "Never Knowingly Undersold". That *is* the slogan. The rest is their definition of what it means.

TigerMoth

http://www.johnlewis.com/inspiration-and-advice/never-knowingly-undersold-policy

"If we find a national high street competitor offering a better nationwide price for the same individual product, sold with the same service conditions, we'll lower our price to match in all our shops and on our website, including when a competitor is having a sale."

Most products don't come with "service conditions".

I suppose if a customer finds the cheaper option, and tells them about it, they didn't find it, so the above doesn't apply.

The thing that really gets me about this is not what they're policy is, but the fact that they seem to hide behind pedantics and small print. That's not what I, and a lot people, expect from a store like that.

aldredd

paul_merton said:

The title of the page and the top-level heading is "Never Knowingly Undersold". That *is* the slogan. The rest is their definition of what it means.

But isn't that what we're discussing here? JL's implementation of their policy?

paul_merton

aldredd said:

paul_merton said:

The title of the page and the top-level heading is "Never Knowingly Undersold". That *is* the slogan. The rest is their definition of what it means.

But isn't that what we're discussing here? JL's implementation of their policy?

I think I was saying that the slogan has not changed!

TigerMoth

aldredd said:

But isn't that what we're discussing here? JL's implementation of their policy?

There will always be people who try to find loopholes, so there will be rules which might be open to different interpretations. However, the rest of us expect a bit of transparency.

A product that comes with a different warranty isn't actually the same product. That accounts for the additional wording that's sometimes displayed after the slogan - but it's not actually a change of slogan, because the original is used on its own. Nor is the extra wording actually necessary for reasonable people.

However, the slogan is a lie, and they seem to try wriggling out of price matches. That ought to be beneath an outfit like JLP.

greekmick

I just asked them to price match a TV which is available in Sainsbury for £399. I called Sainsbury and they told me they had 20 in stock. I asked John Lewis to price match and within 20 mins got a reply to say they contacted the Sainsbury I gave them details for and the store had none in stock. I bit annoyed as I know for a fact the guy in Sainsbury said there were plenty 20 mins earlier.

cheshirecat

tweet JL and point out they're fabricating stock availability about never knowingly undersold - it works a treat.

paul_merton

My last TV died 1 day after its 5th birthday, so a 5 year warranty would probably be useless anyway knowing my luck :)

Xefan

Or just go straight to Sainsburys and don't waste your time with JL again if they're going to make a mockery of their own policy.

Venunder

£399 of nectar points from Sainsburys, with 3-5% cashback from Quidco etc.
I would go to Sainsbury's.

greekmick

I have a good amount on a giftcard to use towards it, plus it will be delivered free from John Lewis. thanks @cheshirecat as I did what you suggested and got a reply to say send them the details again to review it.

cheshirecat

Thats what happened to me, then a CS manager phoned me up and authorised the pricematch there and then, and again to make sure i got it etc etc. The response was amazing.

BooTheMightyHamster

I've been sitting here reading this (as a John Lewis Partner), resisting the urge to jump in and defend the company I hold dear.
But I'm glad to see that at least a couple of you have had a good experience with us!!

Xefan

As a partner, why rather than defend it don't you and other staff pursue it and ask why your investment in the company is being put at risk by shoddy sales tactics?

I was under the impression the whole reason JL makes it's staff partners is precisely so that they can and will raise these sorts of problems?

legoboy1066

Today I made 2 price match applications with John Lewis for 2 different Lego toys that had been reduced at a Tesco Store in Birmingham.

These are the 2 replies I got.

Reply regarding price match - Lego toy 1

"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Here at JohnLewis.com, we can only check online availability for retailers with a high street presence, This means we can only match a price if a product is available to purchase online from both ourselves and our competitors.

If a product is only available to purchase in a competitor's store, the price match has to be submitted through a John Lewis branch. We are not able to price match on behalf of a John Lewis branch due to restrictions in the business, which are in place to enable the company a greater control over stock and allow for better customer service, rather than centralising a larger amount of stock.

In this case, although we are more than happy to match with Tescos, as the LEGO Ultra Agents Tremor Track Infiltration is only available to purchase in their stores, and not online, we are unable to price match it with our department.

This does not disqualify the claim entirely, as we have a process called Local Price Matching, which can be done through your local John Lewis branch.

To do this you can visit your local branch or alternatively call one of our branch advisors on your local stores number, who will be happy to help you process this price match.

Whichever of these options (by calling or visiting the branch) is best for you, we can still arrange a delivery for you to your home address if it would be more convenient for you.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any more assistance.

Yours Sincerely,

Tanveer Javed
JohnLewis.com"
_______________

Reply regarding price match - Lego toy 2

"Dear Sir

Thank you for your price match enquiry.

I have contacted the Tesco store you have seen the item in and they have confirmed the price for the LEGO Ultra Agents Infearno Interception is priced at £24.99 which is the same price as John Lewis. Due to there not being a price difference I will not be able to accept this price match claim.

If you wish to know more information on our Never Knowingly Undersold policy please do not hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely,

Luke Bowler
John Lewis"

______

JL...... complete jokers

Meadle

Where has all the JL hate come from?? I often find LEGO reduced in store to match other retailers... In fact when I picked up things like TLM ice cream van for half price I wonder who they are price matching..... Further to that I can only imagine they are becoming a bit more awkward with price matching because people are taking the p**s... If the shop across the road has a LEGO set on clearance- just buy it there... Why run over the road to JL and ask for a price match... Unless, of course, because all you have seen is an empty shelf behind a clearance label or some gossip about reduced prices on the internet...
Check John Lewis online or in store regularly and you will pick up plenty of bargains.... Stop trying to play the system then whinge when you lose.

BooTheMightyHamster

Xefan said:

As a partner, why rather than defend it don't you and other staff pursue it and ask why your investment in the company is being put at risk by shoddy sales tactics?

I was under the impression the whole reason JL makes it's staff partners is precisely so that they can and will raise these sorts of problems?

We can and we do. However, I don't believe that we are employing 'shoddy sales tactics'. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, otherwise we would be taken to the cleaners by unscrupulous customers right, left and centre.

I think that it's as fair a policy as we can implement - it stood virtually unchanged for over 100 years, but clearly we've had to react to the internet which has caused the biggest upheaval ever seen in retailing.

I'd like to think that while people could save themselves a few pounds on occasion by shopping elsewhere, they like to come back to JL (and Waitrose), because we offer a level of customer service that is fast going out of fashion with our competitors.

I completely accept that it's frustrating if you are quoted one thing by one Partner, and something else by a different Partner on what appears to be the same set of circumstances, but with nearly 100,000 Partners, we're going to make mistakes and be inconsistent now and again. Sorry!

(I'd point out that I'm not with Customer Services - I'm just one of those 100k Partners, so I want to make it clear that these are my views, and not necessarily the Partnership's.)

cheshirecat

I love john lewis and still shop their by choice all things being equal. But there shouldn't be two employees within the same team going by such wildly different rules. That's just bad training and starts to give the impression that the main differentiator for JL, service, is starting to become poor like at all the other shops. I mean seriously how big is the price matching team? That I went through this exact same thing back in Sept and was assured it was in error suggests their training isn't what it should be.

aldredd

I'd like to think that while people could save themselves a few pounds on occasion by shopping elsewhere, they like to come back to JL (and Waitrose), because we offer a level of customer service that is fast going out of fashion with our competitors.

Whilst the level of cust service is indeed a factor for me shopping as JL, (far more than I really ought to haha!) when it comes to buying Lego, price, (along availabilityof course), is the only differentiating factor - if JL are selling cheapest I'll buy it. Can't be faffed with this price match lark - whoever offers the best price gets my custom, not fussed who that ends up being. Well, other than Amazon - I avoid amazon.

CCC

Interesting - I put in a fake price match yesterday to test it out again (I haven't done one for months). I put in a request for a set that I purchased at ASDA on saturday and made up a price (50% off RRP, it was actually 33% off at ASDA).

JL have come back to me with - not that ASDA don't sell them at that price, as I was expecting - but that the branch of ASDA that I price matched to does not currently stock any lego. So in a few days, they have sold out not just the set I bought, but their entire lego stock? Or just a made up reason.

TigerMoth

Meadle said:

Check John Lewis online or in store regularly and you will pick up plenty of bargains.... Stop trying to play the system then whinge when you lose.

The vast majority of people do neither of those. They decide they want something and then try to find the cheapest place to get it.

Regularly scouring the shelves or web site has nothing to do with price-matching.

Meadle said:

If the shop across the road has a LEGO set on clearance- just buy it there... Why run over the road to JL and ask for a price match... Unless, of course, because all you have seen is an empty shelf behind a clearance label or some gossip about reduced prices on the internet...

Usually because the "shop across the road" isn't across the road but at the other end of town. If you organise your trip so that you end at a shop that price matches, you simply get it there rather than retracing your steps. The idea is that you can hope that JLP is cheaper, but it doesn't matter when it isn't.

I've got JLP to price match, in store, a couple of times for exactly that reason. I'd only consider it online because their options for delivery (to other JLP stores) makes things easier.

Meadle said:

Where has all the JL hate come from?

Probably the same place as Tesco or Asda hate. The average shopper gets fed up hearing about something they've considered buying being available cheaply and then finding it isn't.

I don't imagine that JLP would like the idea of being compared to Tesco one little tiny bit. That should worry them. They used to be almost squeaky clean, a position that's very hard to reach. If they reject price matches that aren't contrived, don't modify prices when alerted that a competitor has a genuinely cheaper price or deliver bashed items in plastic bags, then it's a hard road back

A store's bread and butter come from Mr Average, not enthusiasts or resellers who want to squeeze the system as hard as they can. If the latter are a problem, then the system needs changing, but Mr Average must feel that it works as advertised.

Meadle

Oooh how exciting- a post of mine picked apart! I feel so complete :-)

monkeyhanger

Meadle said:

Oooh how exciting- a post of mine picked apart! I feel so complete :-)

I thought you were pretty much spot on. Plenty of people have posted here about getting JL to price match with a shop that has sold out at the advertised cheap price, clearly against the spirit of the "never knowingly undersold" pledge.

I can see the reason to buy something electrical from JL to take advantage of a longer warranty, but something like Lego, buy it at the cheaper place and if it goes out of stock there then you're being a chancer and taking advantage of JLs goodwill by submitting a pricematch claim, or even worse claiming a cheap price that doesn't exist and asking them to match that.

Getting anything in a sale has everything to do with being in the right place at the right time, before it sells out. If you snooze, you lose. There is no entitlement to those cheap prices by falling back on JL's generous policy for an item that isn't available at the price you're hoping to match.

You can try it on, but if you get knocked back then there's no need to moan.

Calling JL when they check out the price match claims and knock them back for a valid technicality is fair do's IMO.

Xefan

The problem I have with price matching is simply when arbitrary excuses are made up to refuse a price match by different staff as I experienced a lot with TRU and now as others have cited examples of above JL is doing.

I really couldn't care if a price match is refused when someone is pulling a fast one, but when it's a legit request by their own rules and gets refused that's when I take issue because at that pint price matching goes from being "We'll always try our best to offer you the most competitive price" to "We'll lie about being competitive in the hope you pay more and buy it from us anyway now you're already here".

Price matching was meant to be about promising competitiveness on pricing, but it's repeatedly getting turned into an underhanded method used to bait people into stores away from competitors based on a lie.

If you don't want to price match, or don't want to price match certain items or want to apply restrictions that's fine. Just don't use slogans that are an outright lie. Obviously at this point JLs headline slogan has become a lie because there are so many caveats that words like "never" and "knowingly" aren't what JL is offering in practice. That leaves JL a choice - start living up to it or ditch it, then there's really no problem.

Keep peddling a lie though and it deserves any flack it gets.

Venunder

All this price matching malarky could be avoided if TLG set a reasonable RRP for their products in the first place.
Then every shop could sell Lego at that reasonable RRP.
However, TLG insist on pricing Lego like it was the latest apple iphone.
Inciting us all to look for a better deal.

Mojoest

Has anyone else been popping back to this thread every so often for the last few days after seeing its got new posts, thinking, 'oooh maybe a new deal or set on offer'. Only to be disappointed by yet more talk on price matching schemes?
Fingers crossed there is a deal worth posting soon, just to break the cycle :wink: ...

CCC

monkeyhanger said:

I can see the reason to buy something electrical from JL to take advantage of a longer warranty, but something like Lego, buy it at the cheaper place and if it goes out of stock there then you're being a chancer and taking advantage of JLs goodwill by submitting a pricematch claim, or even worse claiming a cheap price that doesn't exist and asking them to match that.

It's interesting that you think it is OK to price match to get a longer warranty. As they have also refused price matches based on warranty length, since the products are different as they have different "service conditions" to their competitors with shorter warranties.

MrGudz

Mojoest said:

Has anyone else been popping back to this thread every so often for the last few days after seeing its got new posts, thinking, 'oooh maybe a new deal or set on offer'. Only to be disappointed by yet more talk on price matching schemes?
Fingers crossed there is a deal worth posting soon, just to break the cycle :wink: ...

Your not alone there!

Pate5346

^ Me too.