SIGN THE PETITION HERE :
http://www.change.org/p/save-lego-the-lord-of-the-ringsThis was posted on eurobricks by Trunkbass and I said I would post it here too for all of you to have a look
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Dear Brickset members and LEGO the Lord of the Rings enthousiasts,
as we know, the future for LEGO LotR looks very dim with currently no advertisement for a next wave in the instructions of the last Hobbit wave, and no mention of LotR sets in the retailer catalog. It is almost sure that LEGO The Lord of the Rings is over.
To most of us the line feels incomplete with the lack of several important characters (like the Witch-King, Eowyn, Sauron and Faramir), factions (especially Gondor), buildings (mainly Minas Tirith) and creatures (like the Balrog, Treebeard and mountain trolls).
Many of us feel that this theme needs just one wave to 'complete' the LEGO Lord of the Rings. Even only one set, which is preferably set in Gondor, could solve most of our problems. For example, you can make a Battle of the Pelennor Fields as big as you want (depicting several stages of the battle and the preceding events) with the Witch-King on fell beast, Éowyn, wounded Faramir, Gondor soldiers, a mountain troll, a piece of Minas Tirith, etc.
To raise awareness I would like to start a petition to let LEGO know that we care. I know some of you think this will not matter, but maybe it will. If we get enough support maybe we can at least get an official statement from TLG that LEGO LotR is over and why.
I am working on the format right now, but to make this a strong statement I could use your help.
Quote
LEGO the Lord of the Rings is a licensed theme of the popular toy company. It appealed to both LEGO and the Lord of the Rings fans over the past two years. Unfortunately it looks like there will be no more LEGO LotR construction sets, while there is still so much left to explore. Please help us raise awareness to save LEGO LotR.
The golden deal
Back in 2011 the LEGO Group (TLG) announced the multi-year agreement with Warner Bros. Consumer Products to turn the characters and locations of the Lord of the Rings into the plastic toy we all know and love. Finally this popular franchise would be made into LEGO construction sets. This was, according to LEGO.com:
“not only because we know they will foster collectability and creative play, but also because these are two properties that our fans have been asking us to create for years"
These fans have been getting fantastic LEGO LotR sets from the summer of 2012 until June 2013, depicting scenes from all three movies: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King. Aside from being popular among children, the introduction of this theme has also drawn many AFOL’s (Adult Fan Of LEGO) back to their favorite childhood toy, commonly referred to as: ‘returning from their Dark Ages".
An incomplete theme…
But now the future of LEGO LotR looks rather dark itself. With no new sets for over a year and the LEGO Hobbit theme ending in October 2014, closely followed by the last Hobbit movie (The Battle of the Five Armies) this December, chances for LEGO LotR sets are close to non-existent.
To many of us the LEGO LotR theme feels incomplete. This is due to the lack of several major characters, creatures, buildings and locations. Some of the most striking oversights are LEGO versions of the complete Gondor faction, the city of Minas Tirith, the Balrog of Moria, the Witch-King with his iconic helmet and several important characters like Éowyn and Faramir. Even Sauron, the main villain of the story, doesn’t have his own depiction in LEGO form.
One last wave?
Many fans would love this theme to continue forever, but a lot of us feel that most of the gaps could be filled with just one last wave. Only one last batch of sets could deal with the most important characters, settings and stories that are now left out.
In this manner TLG could complete this theme in a proper way to honour the Lord of the Rings franchise and satisfy fans of both LEGO and the Lord of the Rings.
If you love LEGO and if you like the Lord of the Rings, please take your time to sign this petition. It only takes a minute. Let the world now what LEGO LotR meant for you and why you want it to continue. Which crucial sets are still missing? Let your voices be heard!
Thank you very much for your help.
Comments
Yes there are some great sets in there (Unexpected Gathering, delicious!), but to be honest though I've never seen a line so heavily discounted by multiple retailers as LOTR, I'd love to see the shelf space make room for another, better, line.
So whilst I understand that you are upset, there are probably as many of us who would be upset if TLG continued it at the expense of something else.
They aren't going to pay money to extend a license to keep a few fan boys happy
Its time for it to go so we can hopefully get some decent castle lines coming back in again
Yes, I am aware that TLM isn't usually called a licensed set, but it is in my book. To me, a licensed theme is a theme based off movies, books, tv shows, etc.
Imagine if they had ignored iconic Star Wars ships in the first star wars waves, and never made a single storm trooper, ever. That theme would have died pretty quick if all they did was naboo ships and droids.
I am glad for what little we got, but it is definitely a beautiful theme utterly wasted and misused thanks to a basic lack of ambition, and slavish lazy thinking.
Imagine not releasing a Tie-Fighter, X-wing, or Rebel Trooper. We would all see the stupidity in that. Yet Lotr fans have been pulling their hair out at the equivalent moronic decisions made in regard to the lotr theme. No Balrog, Fell Beast, or Gondor knights... If i had tried to get it wrong on purpose, i wouldn't have done much different to what we saw. Repetitive figs (gandalf everywhere!), dull grey walls, none of the majesty of the film art or architecture in any build, and no scope to recreate a single battle.
The point of obtaining a license in my mind is you obtain permission to create those signature, unique to a license, works. Otherwise save your money and stick to generics. But did we get those unique properties? Hardly. The bare minimum of figs scattered around buckets of grey bricks in the most wasteful of ways, just to barely scrape a full fellowship, and you'd have to buy five weathertops to get the nine riders. That's a sinking ship before it's even left dock.
It's utterly absurd to think that the ONLY reason Bag End (Unexpected Gathering) was even released was due to the Hobbit film, and not lotr at all. Had the Hobbit films not been made, we wouldn't even have had the opening location so unique to tolkien's work.
Apparently Lego think Lotr fans don't need a Witch king, or Sauron (lord of the rings himself)... By that token, I guess Star Wars never needed a Darth Vader or Emperor. Yeah, how long would Star Wars have survived without Vader?
Lego have mistakenly viewed lotr as just a licensed 'castle' tie-in, compounding that error by then neglecting to include the soldiers, and so failing to even connect with castle builders. They seem utterly blind to what the films actually offered in terms of appeal and reach; the unique creatures (Balrog, Fell Beast, Mumak), a theme with genuine adult appeal, potential for much more in way of builds to delight the eye.
A few 'adult' builds of the locations (such as Rivendell, Lothlorien, Prancing Pony), would have had cross-theme appeal not just to lotr fans, but to anyone looking to build a beautiful waterfall-fairy-dell, a mysterious forest, or medieval tavern.
If done properly, such sets would have gone down as instant modern classics, regardless of the theme which spawned them.
That and battle pack sets and I think people would have been a lot happier in general. I'm willing to accept the failings of the Hobbit theme as a reflection of the weakness of the films.
Looking at all the sets I do believe that the Lord of the Rings sets are better than the hobbit sets overall (Even though I do think the best set was An Unexpected Gathering from hobbit)
So I maybe they should take a bit of time, skip this round give the sets more though and come back in 2015 with a final line up and go out with a bang and give fans the sets and figs they deserve. I don't think they could do it through Ideas as I think that Ideas has to use existing parts and some of the missing chars and sets deserve a full consideration and that might need new parts.
...
...That being said, someone ought to get a petition going to bring back Western. It only lasted two waves!
...Oh, and another one for Forestmen.
...and a new monorail.
The only "vote" LEGO is paying attention to is the wallet-votes. If "we" had purchased the LOTR sets like mad, I'm pretty sure they'd continue the line until the last oil reservoir was drained.
I understand that for AFOL´s who are not really into Tolkien(or the Lego incarnation) the petition is like beating a dead horse (and maybe it truly is) but for Tolkien/Lego fans like me this is the last straw to maybe get the minimum chance that TLG will consider producing one last set (i guess a whole wave is a little bit too much to ask for) which could give us the highly desired character/figures most fans are looking for!
Unrelated: There's recently been a big hoo-hah in the media over the representation of women in society, and in turn, by Lego. Similarly, people often use the gender imbalance in LotR as a complaint against tolkien's treatment of women in his books, yet he saves a key moment to highlight the strength and courage of one - and all.
In the male dominated environment of LotR, Tolkien writes how one woman ignores the wishes of her loved ones, goes to war, and kills the 'unkillable' enemy. Contrary to the accusation leveled at tolkien, Tolkien uses a literary device to focus our attention on that one act, and therefore on that one character, and what she represents.
But consider, if the books were filled with scores of valiant women, this one would be lost, made unimportant, amongst the many other acts of valour those women would be doing. But alone, our attention is focused upon her, like a single light in a night sky. Just as Tolkien gives the key task of destroying the ring to the 'smallest' amongst us, he hands the destruction of the enemy general to the 'unrepresented'.
It's a double-irony that a license holder, being accused of gender bias, has failed to recognise the deeper context contained within this scene, and what the character represents, by leaving Eowyn's tide-turning (of both battles) out.
Back on topic: I think it pretty obvious that TLG didn't buy into LotR expecting to make vehicles... But saying that, fantasy themes do have their vehicle equivalents: the big monsters. Creatures such as the Balrog, The 'Watcher in the Water', Mumak (War Elephants), Fell Beasts... these are a fantasy-realm's 'vehicles', and Lego didn't make a single one of them either.
So it is not as if Lego do not have the ability to create such sets. They even have a mamoth!
They budgeted 12 sets (not including the 3 very small exclusives). 7 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. They had to make a lot of choices regarding what molds they could make, what would appeal to kids and adults (not just LOTR fans), and provide a lot of different price points.
So... let's try an experiment. You have 12 LOTR sets in which to convey the entirety of the films. You're limited to similar constraints in terms of the number of new molds you can create, and number of minifigs and other expensive elements used in sets. What lineup would you make?
DaveE
FotR:
Weathertop
Council of Elrond
Moria/Balrog
Boromir/Lurtz/End of the Fellowship
TT:
Helm's Deep
Frodo/Gollum/Faramir
Orthanc/Treebeard
RotK
Black Gate
Shelob
Mt. Doom Scene
Minas Tirith
Eowyn/Witch King
Assuming that the 7 sets you list that match LEGO's are kept intact, let's see what you changed:
Removed:
Wizard's Duel
Gandalf Arrives
Uruk-Hai Army
Orc Forge
Pirate Ship Ambush
So... if you notice, by removing Wizard's Duel, Gandalf Arrives, and the Orc Forge, you haven't done too much. I believe most of the elements and minifigs of those sets are still used in other sets. Uruk-Hai Army gives you 2 unique minifigs to replace (Eomer and Rohan Soldier). The Pirate Ship Ambush, luckily, gives you a little more, with 3 unique minifigs (King of the Dead, Soldier of the Dead, and the Pirate of Umbar).
Notice also that you've only cut 1 mold (unless I missed some)-- the helmet for Eomer/Rohan soldier. So the new stuff you add can really only have 1 new mold.
Added:
Bilbo's Birthday (could this be a small set?)
Bridge of Khazadum
Lothlorien (is this a small set with 2 figures?)
Rohan Hall
Minas Tirith Field
It seems like you'll be adding in:
- Bilbo (old)
- Balrog (one or many new molds!)
- Galadriel
- Rohan soldier or Eomer (at least one new mold)
- Fell Beast (one or many new molds!)
- Witch King (probably needs a new helmet mold)
- Eowyn
Assuming you're not adding in other things, you've done a good job on the minifig diversity, but added several new molds, which are usually the most expensive things to add.
Also recall that one of the sets (The Orc Forge) was a Target exclusive, which means it definitely shouldn't get any new molds, and maybe not even any unique minifig elements.
So, I think you've probably blown the budget on new molds. You might also not have hit all the right price points, hard to say.
DaveE
Wizard's Duel
Gandalf Arrives
Uruk-Hai Army
Orc Forge
Mines of Moria
Pirate Ship Ambush
Again, Wizard's Duel, Gandalf Arrives, and the Orc Forge, you haven't given you much. Uruk-Hai Army gives you 2 unique minifigs and 1 mold. The Pirate Ship Ambush gives you a 3 unique minifigs. And Mines of Moria gives you a small chunk of molds with the removal of the Cave Troll, and 3 minifigs (Boromir, Legolas, and Pippin).
So, you've got 8 minifigs, 1 minifig mold, and roughly a creature mold.
You've added:
Boromir/Lurtz/End of the Fellowship (assuming small set)
Mt. Doom Scene (assuming small 2-fig set)
Frodo/Gollum/Faramir
Moria/Balrog
Minas Tirith
Eowyn/Witch King
That's adding:
- Balrog (there's your creature mold)
- Boromir
- Pippin (assuming he's included with Boromir/Lurtz)
- Faramir
- Eowyn
- Witch King (new head mold needed)
- Gondor soldier from Minas Tirith? (if so, new molds, if not, what's in it?)
- Fell Beast (adding another creature mold)
- Legolas (you've gotta have him somewhere!)
So, pretty good on minifigs (7 figs), but over budget with molds (one creature mold, and likely an extra new mold for a Gondor soldier). Also, you've lost any Rohan soldiers, unless you add them into the Helm's Deep, which will take you further over budget mold-wise.
DaveE
Wave 1
$12.99: Mirror of Galadriel (Frodo, Galadriel)
$19.99: Treebeard Encounter (Treebeard, Merry, Orc, Pippin)
$29.99: Attack at Weathertop (Aragorn, Frodo, Ringwraith x3)
$39.99: Cirith Ungol (Frodo, Orc x2, Sam, Shelob)
$59.99: The Golden Hall (Aragorn, Eowyn, Gandalf the White, Grima, Rohirrim, Theoden)
$79.99: The Council of Elrond (Aragorn, Arwen, Bilbo, Boromir, Elrond, Frodo, Gimli)
$129.99: Escape from Moria (Balrog, Gandalf the Gray, Frodo, Gimli, Legolas, Orc x3)
Exclusive
$199.99: Helm's Deep (Aragorn, Elf, Gimli, Haldir, Legolas, Rohirrim, Theoden, Uruk-Hai x5)
Wave 2
$12.99: The Wizards' Duel (Gandalf the Gray, Saruman)
$29.99: The Forbidden Pool (Faramir, Frodo, Gollum, Ranger)
$59.99: Battle of the Pelennor Fields (Eowyn, Fell Beast, Gondorian, Merry as Rohirrim, Orc, Witch-King)
$99.99: The Gates of Minas Tirith (Denethor, Gondorian x2, Gandalf the White, Orc x2, Pippin as Gondorian, Troll)
Ok, so price points: great match! Cirith Ungol becomes the Target Exclusive, which is a bit odd, since it's the only set with Sam in it (which will probably get argued, especially as he's a new unique printed head, and possibly torso). But that's a good match.
As for minifigs, you've gone a bit over in terms of variety. By rough count, about 3 more than allowed, although that's tricky (depends on how many distinct prints you'd include with various elves, orcs, Gondorians, etc). You've got about 10 more minifigs than are included in the actual lineup (17.5% more), which you'll need to trim.
For molds, you've traded the Cave Troll for a regular Troll, but you've added in a Fell Beast and a Balrog (over budget). You could argue that you've left out the Eagle, but since that mold's getting used for the Hobbit sets, it's not quite an even trade. You've saved one mold from the Mouth of Sauron, but you'll probably need new molds for the Gondorian soldiers, the Witch King, and maybe Galadriel. So, at least one mold, possibly 2 that you need to cut (along with at least one of the creatures, if not both).
Also, I can imagine a few other critiques:
- No Gollum in the initial release
- Not enough conflict for kids' play value in the Golden Hall
- Not sure what's going to show up construction-wise in the battle of the Pelennor Fields set to justify the cost to buyers
DaveE
Even though i don´t get what you try to prove here? TLG made some mistakes regarding the LOTR line period!
Hence, my wager is that if you can come up with a lineup of 12 sets, we can find fault with it. It will probably either go out of LEGO's budget, not sufficiently cover the full lineup, or have problems with appealing to LEGO's customer base.
DaveE
I agree about the conflict. I was imagining the Golden Hall set to have conflict between Eowyn and Grima and between Aragorn/Gandalf and Grima/Rohirrim, with Theoden having a two-sided face (possessed and normal). I see greater lack of conflict in the Galadriel set and Rivendell. I don't consider the former a problem because Gandalf Arrives has at least as little conflict. For Rivendell, I imagined a larger build with an alcove for the Shards of Narsil, to stage the scene between Aragorn and Boromir. But I agree there probably isn't enough conflict in a set at that price point.
As for the Pelennor Fields, much of the build would be the Fell Beast. Otherwise, I admit there wouldn't be much to it. Probably some of those ever-present rocky outcroppings, etc., and maybe something that supports an action feature.
Lego makes lots of ranges, in lots of different formats. I'm simply saying they got this wrong. Lego are in the business to make money. If I had been on their team of strategists, I would have recommended an entirely different approach, and been willing to be sacked over it, because i believed this format was doomed from the outset... but we'll never know if my approach would've been a success or not.
I am not merely criticizing for the sake of being negative ('people like me', indeed! how insulting.) Quite the opposite. I am of the attitude that voices expressing misgivings are the ones that drive businesses forward. Not just resting on laurels and assuming all is well, then blaming the product when it fails. Occasionally you want, need in fact, someone in the office to stand up and say 'this is not going to work, we need to reassess and develop a better fit'. Those people, more often than not, become the leaders of tomorrow, as they're the visionaries willing to take a risk and do something new, forcing innovations that take a business forward.
So I'm not going to waste time playing the silly game of coming up with a list of 12 sets sticking rigidly to what we got just so you can poke and be negative for the sake of it. And not because i can't, either - hey, if i get a chance maybe i will post one - but because that IS exactly the lazy thinking I'm annoyed by. Sticking to a formula which doesn't fit.
I'm not being harsh, I just see a potential much greater than they gave. The Figs have been great - but so are all lego figs these days. A couple of sets are great (Bag End is the stand out). Lego have set the bar high for many other themes, but largely given LotR a brush off.
If they had invested a little time (when negotiating for the license) to appreciate the films and what they offered by way of new, untried, markets and structures, instead of behaving like ugly sisters forcing slippers, they might have had a substantially better product, vastly improved sales, opened new markets, and not only that, might even have stumbled upon or unlocked an improved business model for the future.
TLG is only under the limits they set for themselves, if they want to release a new product (Power functions, friends, mixels, Apps, MMO worlds), they can do it. IF they had put a little more thought into this license, beyond just ticking existing 'A.N.Other License' boxes, we might not be having this conversation, but instead be reveling in a whole series of amazing landscape sets, or strange architectures, or whatever else you can imagine beyond lotr, perhaps beyond anything we see today.
Given the vast exploration and experimentation that LEGO's been through in the last nearly 20 years, I think it's pretty presumptuous to believe that LEGO wouldn't have considered other selling formats for the license.
DaveE
*he says, polishing his nails* ;oP
...The figs we got have been largely great, but I have not been overly impressed by many of the builds. That's it. Opinion.
If you disagree, if you think lotr was everything you expected and wished it to be, then that's fine. Good for you. I'm overjoyed for everyone who gets what they want from any theme. I simply felt Lotr offered much more than it/TLG delivered. That's my personal opinion, and i have never said it was anything else but that. State yours and move on... who even cares?
The difference is, I'm perfectly happy for you (and others) to hold your opinions (whatever they are) without making sideways personal remarks about your character, nor do I attempt to drag you or others into a futile, apparently personal, argument over them.
I'd ask you to show me that same courtesy. I don't know why you are so determined not to. My opinion is not even important. It won't change anything.
Lastly, I have not offended you, and if i had, it would be unintended and i would've apologised for doing so. But I will not appreciate my (informal and haphazardly written) posts being dissected and scrutinized any further like they're some legal document forming a case for prosecution. They are not.
So we disagree, who bl**dy cares? Now let me buy you a drink, or i'll cut your arm off. Your choice. ;o)
And so, to lighten the mood. You wanted some sets: Here is Part 1:
FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING
Kicking the Hobbit: Sauron's Ring is hot property and everyone wants to put their finger in, except Gandalf who won't touch it - though he's partial to 'Tea at Bag End'.
Contains: Bigfig Gandalf & microfig Frodo, for an awesome spectacle of size difference that will Amaze Your Friends!!!
Council Of Elrond: It should contain some forum members discussing the fate of middle earth, but instead some self-appointed-(eared) master of everyone, with no warg in the fight, starts telling everyone where to get off. Why they listen, god knows, he doesn't even give a sh*t what happens, as he's off to build on other shores. Contains: Elrond with suitcase.
Pass of Caradhras: The snow-capped mountain pass. Hard to Find because Greenpeace mistake it for an Arctic set, and buy up all copies to p*ss everyone off. Their ransoming of the figs on ebay, causes untold levels of turmoil for the politically inclined completionist. This is the only set with Boromir. Typical. Also contains Gimli.
Mines of Moria: This is a big bucket of grey bricks. If your collection is short of grey bricks, there's plenty 'more-ere'. See what i did there? ;o)
and ...Gandalf lives! So nobody quite understands what he was getting so worked up about. Contains: Gandalf (alternate confused face) and Gimli.
LotR Batman: This is regular Batman in a lotr box (TLG believe it will have cross-theme appeal to batman fans)... because Batman.
Set 6: Set 6, Always a weak point as ideas become stretched, and nobody thinks to watch the film. The designers take the chance to just plug some figure gaps, feeling uncertain about the choice and spread of characters so far. Therefore contains: Gimli.
Next time: The Two Towels...
Easy. The original 7 sets we got can stay. Orthanc can also stay. Wave 2 should have been completely revamped. No Pirate Ship Ambush, make a $100 piece of Minas Tirith (the gates?) set instead. Include the two Undead Soldiers in it, the Undead King, Eowyn, the Witch King, Gothmog, Rohan Merry, Gondor Pippin, and a molded Fel Beast. Throw in Aragorn if need be. Make a $30 add on army builder set with it that includes Faramir who can double as a basic soldier, a Gondor soldier or two, and then 3-4 Mordor Orcs in armor and with the hair/ears. The molded creature could be a Mountain Troll, or if budget doesn't permit a horse or light tan warg. Make it $40 if $30 is not enough.
That leaves two spots left. Wizard Duel can stay since people need a cheap way to get Saruman. Ditch Council of Elrond. We already are getting Elrond in an upcoming Hobbit set and got him as a promotion. Two Elrond's is plenty. We don't need Frodo or Gimli from that set either. Arwen would be missed, but she really isn't that important to the story and I would easily take Eowyn over Arwen. Leave the Black Gates set, but include an armored Mordor Orc from the army builder set and remove one orc and replace him with a Gondor Soldier. Alternately they could include Sauron instead, even though he isn't technically there in physical form. Ta-da! Wave 2 just went from sub par to friggen amazing.
As a bonus Lego could have skipped doing the Orc Forge. Include Lurtz in Orthanc since Orthanc was already sparse on minifigures. Include one set of White Hand armor in the Uruk-hai Army set. This would make Orc Forge obsolete. In it's place Lego could have given us a Balrog or Mumakil set for $40. Balrog could have a brick built Balrog, Gandalf, and a few Moria Orcs with their cool helms and a collapsible bridge. If a Mumakil set was made instead have it include two Haradrim (one being the Chieftain), an Easterling, and a Rohan Soldier on horseback. Throw in Legolas if it needs a named character. The build could be the platform on the Mumakil's back, or the Mumakil itself if it wasn't molded (similar, but half the size of the Chima one).
BAM! I just made Lego's LotR 10x better than what they gave us and covered 90% of the important scenes and characters fans want. Instead Lego only covered maybe 70%.