LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

dimefield

TheFew said:

<chinese_mode-on>

Those sets look pretty city to me!

</chinese_mode_off>

Has anyone coined the phrase “Chitty” yet? 

floridabrick

Shib said:

Cobi are doing nothing wrong, they are designing their own sets and selling them legitimately. LEGO don’t own the word Atlantis and it’s not like that set is even trying to look like a LEGO Atlantis set.

Like it or not LEGO’s patent on the interlocking brick system expired so there’s nothing wrong with other companies making compatible sets.

frankly if this stuff annoys you so much, I can’t imagine you could walk out of a toy shop without getting furious at the Mega-blox/construx sets!

I was angrier (more angry?) at Atlantis than Cobi. 

My opinion is that MB, construx, and Kleenex are their own thing, POS, but their own thing.  Cobi is trying a lot harder to look like Lego.  I.e. look at those Friends figures.  And "Compatible with other brands" screams to me "I work with the real thing". 

zmarkella

floridabrick said:

I was angrier (more angry?) at Atlantis than Cobi. 

My opinion is that MB, construx, and Kleenex are their own thing, POS, but their own thing.  Cobi is trying a lot harder to look like Lego.  I.e. look at those Friends figures.  And "Compatible with other brands" screams to me "I work with the real thing". 

Don't they all advertise as 'compatible with major brand' (or 'leading brand')?

floridabrick

Probably!  That last line was a separate statement regardless of whoever the manufacturer is. 

Cyberdragon

zmarkella said:

Cyberdragon said:

They had the audacity to put this cheap trash in display cases! Look at that nasty plastic! And the worst part is look at the bottom of the box...something about "COBI is a standard building system from the COBI Group and should not be confused with other..." YEAH RIGHT! They're guilty and they know it! Translation: "See, we're totally not ripping of Lego products (and name), so stop saying that...'cause we're totally not...see, we said so!" I wonder what else they have to say for themselves...(hope they get busted!)

Just out of curiosity: how do you classify a piece of plastic 'nasty'? Missing 'Lego' on the studs?

I've played with cheap toys as a kid, there are signs of cheap plastic. Look at the pieces in the mermaid set, you can see mold marks and warping/unevenness on some pieces especially the golden ones. Those palm and fern leaves on the the temple set look thin as paper and have untrimmed edges. And it overall looks a bit shinier then Lego, or maybe that's just the lighting.

AndyPol

Shib said:

Cobi are doing nothing wrong, they are designing their own sets and selling them legitimately. LEGO don’t own the word Atlantis and it’s not like that set is even trying to look like a LEGO Atlantis set.

Like it or not LEGO’s patent on the interlocking brick system expired so there’s nothing wrong with other companies making compatible sets.

I agree. It seems unfair to discuss Cobi in a forum about counterfeit LEGO. It's a legitimate company, based in the EU, only a few hundred miles from Denmark, and it is doing nothing wrong. I have some of the Cobi military sets and they are actually quite good, with the exception of the appalling minifigures, but then Cobi quite rightly didn't want to fall foul of LEGO on that one.

floridabrick said:

Look at this crap!  Was on vacation last month and found these in the gift shop at Atlantis.  "Cobi" have 3 sets under the theme "Atlantis, Paradise Island, Bahamas".

It might not be to your taste, and personally, I also do not like any of the non-military Cobi sets, but they are legally made, sold and certainly not counterfeit.

datsunrobbie

http://www.thebahamasweekly.com/publish/international/LEGO_Systems_and_Atlantis_Paradise_Island_Resort_Announce_the_World_s_First-Ever_LEGO_Summer_Camp_Programs9359.shtml

LEGO and Atlantis were partners back in 2010, don't know if they still are. Apparently Cobi offered Atlantis a better deal on creating sets. 

Shib

Probably more to do with LEGO not wanting to bother with cross promotion once their (completely unrelated apart from name) Atlantis theme ended.

CCC

datsunrobbie said:

LEGO and Atlantis were partners back in 2010, don't know if they still are. Apparently Cobi offered Atlantis a better deal on creating sets. 

Or maybe just "a deal".

CCC

WTF?

catwrangler

^ I'm impressed... this is actually worse than those ones that turned characters into cars...

FowlerBricks

CCC said:

WTF?

AAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE!!! That company must be run by SATAN HIMSELF!! WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA!!? WHO!?! Guys, we need to get the email of this company and flood them with angry emails. This is just so wrong in so many ways. Also, is that supposed to be Ninjago? Because that one dude looks a whole heck of a lot like Green Lantern...or at least his head does. That Cole...demon..thing's weapon looks like it's melting. I'm tempted to get some of these just to make a video of me utterly ruining them in many gruesome ways. 

datsunrobbie

They certainly are odd, but I bet my grandson would have lots of fun with them.

FowlerBricks

^Hmm...I won't judge, but that may corrupt your grandson and turn him into an evil world-conquering skeleton clown.

SumoLego

I think I know the inspiration...

Cyberdragon

^ that looks like something from Beetlejuice.

FowlerBricks said:

CCC said:

WTF?

AAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE!!! That company must be run by SATAN HIMSELF!! WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA!!? WHO!?! Guys, we need to get the email of this company and flood them with angry emails. This is just so wrong in so many ways. Also, is that supposed to be Ninjago? Because that one dude looks a whole heck of a lot like Green Lantern...or at least his head does. That Cole...demon..thing's weapon looks like it's melting. I'm tempted to get some of these just to make a video of me utterly ruining them in many gruesome ways. 

Ooooohhhh Siiiiiid....DESTROY!

VorpalRyu

CCC said:

WTF?

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! RIGHT NOW, FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL HUMANITY, KILL IT!!!

Oh those are so insanely bad. I'm guessing they figured that they can't make decent imitation minifigs, so now they're going the parody route...

dougts

It boggles my mind that we are year intothese conversations and people still don’t see the obvious distinction between counterfeit products and alternative brand products.  Two completely different things yet the discussions always get blended.  I’m no fan of either but it is really unfair to the companies that are doing their own thing legally and above board 

CaptainPirateMan

@dougts,
I have to say I agree with you. Even though I am guilty myself. I own 5 to 7 Lepin sets (only retired sets) and I DO feel like a creep for having supported Lepin as much as I did. Honestly the guilt I feel has made me refuse to look at ANY brick sets that is not Lego anymore, including Mega and other "legit" brands. 

I'm not trying to excuse or justify my purchases, but I did belive that the Lego lawsuit was going to result in "shutting down" or at least make the buying of clones outside of Asia very difficult. So I sorta operated under the assumption that Lepin and others were just a passing fad, at least outside of Asia. So as we sit here all these months or years later, and the fact that they are STILL ripping off Lego sets is disappointing. 

Far too many people I see use the price point as their justification for Lepin. Like why buy the Lego Diner when I can buy the Lepin one and save $50, or whatever? I just never bought into THAT logic. I would rather pay the extra money for the REAL set. It was just the massive prices for sets like IFS, HH, CC, GG etc that led me to Lepin. Which again, Im not trying to justify, just sharing my thoughts on the topic. Sets that Lego is currently producing though, its not THAT much of a price difference. At least NOT to me, and I was under the impression Lepin would be gone by now.

bricknation

Is the LEGO minifigure design a protected property or not?

Recce

bricknation said:

Is the LEGO minifigure design a protected property or not?

I believe TLG still holds the design patent for minifigures, hence why the non Lego brands mostly had their own figure designs. 

zmarkella

CaptainPirateMan said:

Far too many people I see use the price point as their justification for Lepin. Like why buy the Lego Diner when I can buy the Lepin one and save $50, or whatever? I just never bought into THAT logic. I would rather pay the extra money for the REAL set. It was just the massive prices for sets like IFS, HH, CC, GG etc that led me to Lepin. Which again, Im not trying to justify, just sharing my thoughts on the topic. Sets that Lego is currently producing though, its not THAT much of a price difference. At least NOT to me, and I was under the impression Lepin would be gone by now.

Well, you have used the price point as a justification to buy Lepin - the only difference is that your threshold was not $50, but probably $1000. Don't get me wrong, I just bought the UCS Y-Wing from Lepin because there's no way I'm paying £1000+ for it. Do I feel bad or guilty? No. Was it my first Lepin purchase? No. Have I bought any non-retired sets? No, not yet.

As for Lepin being a passing fad outside of Asia: a shockingly large number of people I know have opted to purchase Lepin rather than Lego this past Christmas. I'm talking about people you have the first most of the large/UCS sets in the last 15 years.

CCC

zmarkella said:

Well, you have used the price point as a justification to buy Lepin - the only difference is that your threshold was not $50, but probably $1000.

Indeed. I've bought the kids $1 fake minifigs instead of buying the real thing at BL for $10 or the whole set for $100. When they are going to get heavily played with, chucked around a bit, probably dipped in slime and then in sand, I'd prefer they trash a cheap knock-off.

bricknation

Recce said:

bricknation said:

Is the LEGO minifigure design a protected property or not?

I believe TLG still holds the design patent for minifigures, hence why the non Lego brands mostly had their own figure designs. 

It didn't stop "B&M Retail" stores in the UK.

SumoLego

Assistance!

There are crappy LEGO clone brands in your establishment!!!

gantarat

For Some Reason i want Xinh or Pogo do Star Wars EU Legends Minifigure such as Kyle Katarn,Mara Jade,Corran Horn,Jacen Solo,Jaina Solo,Yuuzhan Vong Etc Etc

CCC

MineSuperHeroes Minifigures. Rip-off three IPs in one go ...

pharmjod

Haha. That's actually pretty good in a weird sort of way.

Bobflip

Impressive amount of plagiarism there! Cool concept, but the face on Iron Man...

gantarat

Big Fig Atrocitus !

Bosstone100

^ Where can ya get those?

willobee498

Geez Star Sapphire put on some clothing!

pharmjod

I was trying to figure out if the star on her waist is part of the outfit or a censoring device... 

Muftak1

pharmjod said:

I was trying to figure out if the star on her waist is part of the outfit or a censoring device... 

I had the same thought! :)

jnscoelho

Just my two cents (with a short introduction):
I'm a huge LEGO fan, since I was a kid, and now that I've recently come out of my dark ages, I'm buying LEGO again (got to thank my daughters for that!). I've bought MegaBlocks for the girls (Shimmer and Shine sets, they loved them!) and they've been offered some other non-DUPLO knockoff's, but all of them legit. And I've only bought non-licensed products once, GoT mini-figures (and I'm not even a mini-figure collector).
Still... I've been searching Brickset for some of the sets I had when I was a kid and most of them came out many years before they were bought - this could be either because they had a bigger shelf life or because they took longer to reach Portugal. And nowadays LEGO has a much higher number of sets per year and their shelf life is shorter (1-2 years, sometimes less, except for those big and/or exclusive sets).
So... I come out of my dark ages and I realize that I missed several sets that I'd love to have. But, unfortunately, I have other priorities in life and cannot afford to give some scalper 100€ for the official WALL-E set, for example. But today I saw the Lepin version, apparently identical (I compared their photos with the LEGO instructions), for less than 24€. Since the product has been discontinued by LEGO, I can’t buy theirs. So what is the right thing to do, to feed the speculation of someone who has no interest in the set and is only thinking about the money, or to buy from Lepin? With the remaining 76€ I can buy other official, current LEGO sets that I wouldn’t buy if I pay the 100€…

One of my new year’s resolutions is actually not to feed LEGO scalpers – I don’t view them as true AFOLs and I partially blame them for the rise of non-licensed copies, especially in the mini-figure “world”. And I will not buy knockoffs of currently available LEGO products, but I can’t promise anything about discontinued ones…

I do think that fighting simultaneously companies like Lepin and the LEGO secondary market is the way to go, but if TLG gets too greedy while doing it it’s going to backfire… 

Pebbles

jnscoelho said:

So... I come out of my dark ages and I realize that I missed several sets that I'd love to have. But, unfortunately, I have other priorities in life and cannot afford to give some scalper 100€ for the official WALL-E set, for example. But today I saw the Lepin version, apparently identical (I compared their photos with the LEGO instructions), for less than 24€. Since the product has been discontinued by LEGO, I can’t buy theirs. So what is the right thing to do, to feed the speculation of someone who has no interest in the set and is only thinking about the money, or to buy from Lepin? With the remaining 76€ I can buy other official, current LEGO sets that I wouldn’t buy if I pay the 100€…

One of my new year’s resolutions is actually not to feed LEGO scalpers – I don’t view them as true AFOLs and I partially blame them for the rise of non-licensed copies, especially in the mini-figure “world”. And I will not buy knockoffs of currently available LEGO products, but I can’t promise anything about discontinued ones…

It would be entirely your right to purchase Lepin sets, but I was under the impression that unlike Lego they do not undergo testing and safety checks and Lepin do not pay for licensing. I agree that some Lego sets are now quite expensive but I don't blame those selling, it's just supply and demand. If you had the WALL_E set and someone was willing to pay 100 euros would you honestly sell it for original retail price?

CCC

There are other alternatives too. For example, buy a second hand one and build it, knowing that if you later decide to sell it you will get your money back (and probably make some profit on it) whereas you will not with a knock-off. Or buy the parts from BL. I don't think that there are any parts exclusive to the set except for the printed ones, so you can still build it.

jnscoelho said:

And I will not buy knockoffs of currently available LEGO products, but I can’t promise anything about discontinued ones…

Using that argument you could just wait until something is discontinued, then buy the knock-off.
 

jnscoelho

I don't buy with the intention of selling them later. I buy them either for play or display purposes. If someone offered me 1000€ for a used 10€ set, sure, I'd sell it, but I'm not actively selling or seaching for buyers.
That supply and demand argument is, in my opinion, debatable, since usually you're not buying it from official retailers, so to say, you're buying from someone that bought it only with the intention to sell it later and is just preying on AFOLs.
But hey, I'm new to all this collector business, I've never been an active collector of anything so...

jnscoelho

CCC said:

There are other alternatives too. For example, buy a second hand one and build it, knowing that if you later decide to sell it you will get your money back (and probably make some profit on it) whereas you will not with a knock-off. Or buy the parts from BL. I don't think that there are any parts exclusive to the set except for the printed ones, so you can still build it.

Sure, I can do all of that. But if I buy the parts, I'm not buying the set, am I? And I can buy the parts from LEGO through Pick a Brick and probably spend a lot more than if I had bought the set when available (don't know, haven't done the math), or I can buy it from BL and so on and so forth. Point is, for the average guy or even a lazy collector, thart's just too much trouble. I can't even understand BL yet, and I've spent a few hours exploring it.
Also, for some context, I'm not exactly in a country to which shipping is cheap and LEGO shops are all around me (damn, we don't even have a LEGO shop, and the prices at [email protected] are often higher for Portugal than, for example, Germany). It's easy to talk about how to end starvation when you have food in your stomach, you know?
And, again, I'm not in this for selling later.

Using that argument you could just wait until something is discontinued, then buy the knock-off. 

 I guess you totally missed my point, then...

Altair

I would never buy one of these crappy LEPIN sets, it's a matter of principle (not to mention the quality issues)

Muftak1

Altair said:

I would never buy one of these crappy LEPIN sets, it's a matter of principle (not to mention the quality issues)

Don't equate "knock off" to "crappy". Many have already stated that Lepin sets quality is almost on par with Lego.

CCC

jnscoelho said:

Sure, I can do all of that. But if I buy the parts, I'm not buying the set, am I? And I can buy the parts from LEGO through Pick a Brick and probably spend a lot more than if I had bought the set when available (don't know, haven't done the math), or I can buy it from BL and so on and so forth.

If you buy the Lepin one, you are also not buying the set.

CCC

jnscoelho said:

Using that argument you could just wait until something is discontinued, then buy the knock-off. 

 I guess you totally missed my point, then...

What was your point, that you will never miss another LEGO set that you want again?

jnscoelho

Altair said:

I would never buy one of these crappy LEPIN sets, it's a matter of principle (not to mention the quality issues)

Sorry for my ignorance, but which quality issues? Is it the clutch? Do people get cancer in their hands from touching bricks sold by Lepin? Or is it just some marks on the bricks, like if they are used?
Because all of the LEGO sets I've bought recently had bricks with marks, be it a Brickheadz, the Saturn V, a Friend's playground or the 75105 MF. Also, more than once the stickers were bent and one or two don't even stick well because of that. Not to mention the almost flattened boxes I sometimes receive when ordering from [email protected]

jnscoelho

CCC said:

If you buy the Lepin one, you are also not buying the set.

Exactly! So why shouldn't I save money on that one so I could buy other official LEGO sets?

What was your point, that you will never miss another LEGO set that you want again?

Not directly, but was also implied! :D

My point was that there are several factors in play and not all “brick enthusiasts” are LEGO exclusive. I would say that the majority (sorry, forum people, but reality is sometimes hard to handle) isn’t. So if TLG wants to fight the counterfeit copies, then it should take all, or at least many, of these factors into account. Otherwise it must come to terms that counterfeit copies will continue to exist and that part of their brick market will be lost to them.

CCC

They are doing things to try to fight it. But many of the factors are interlinked. For example, to stop sales of fakes of high priced (secondary market) sets, they can re-introduce old sets (Taj Mahal, UCS MF). But this also will partially hit sales of current sets if fewer people invest. It also (probably) means that they can produce less new product.

jnscoelho said:

CCC said:

If you buy the Lepin one, you are also not buying the set.

Exactly! So why shouldn't I save money on that one so I could buy other official LEGO sets?

It is up to you of course. But if you are willing to save money by buying fakes of sets that are pricy on the secondary market, and use the excuse that by doing so you can buy more official LEGO sets as you have saved money, then why not go further and buy fakes of the current sets too? That way you get more (fake) sets for your money.

Altair

jnscoelho said:

Altair said:

I would never buy one of these crappy LEPIN sets, it's a matter of principle (not to mention the quality issues)

Sorry for my ignorance, but which quality issues? Is it the clutch? Do people get cancer in their hands from touching bricks sold by Lepin? Or is it just some marks on the bricks, like if they are used?
Because all of the LEGO sets I've bought recently had bricks with marks, be it a Brickheadz, the Saturn V, a Friend's playground or the 75105 MF. Also, more than once the stickers were bent and one or two don't even stick well because of that. Not to mention the almost flattened boxes I sometimes receive when ordering from [email protected]

I have heard and read many complaints from LEPIN buyers about bricks with flaws which did not fit properly with others, or some missing bricks, or some manuals with printing issues. Regarding [email protected], most of the orders I made (and I made a lot) arrived in a perfect status, and for the (rare) cases when the box had a mark, I had it quickly replaced without problem (Lego is expensive yes, but their service is pretty good) - I am not sure you could do that with LEPIN...

gantarat

lepin improve QC a lot lately they even make Golden Emblem that say you will have high quality product.

jnscoelho

CCC said:

They are doing things to try to fight it. But many of the factors are interlinked. For example, to stop sales of fakes of high priced (secondary market) sets, they can re-introduce old sets (Taj Mahal, UCS MF). But this also will partially hit sales of current sets if fewer people invest. It also (probably) means that they can produce less new product. 

Of course, it's what I'm saying. And while I agree with you on the Taj Mahal, the MF is different. It's a new version and I don't believe it will really have an impact, at least on the long term, on the original version in the secondary market. And with an RRP of 800€, it's not for the common consumer of even the common AFOL. I don't think it will have that much of an impact on the rest.

CCC said:
It is up to you of course. But if you are willing to save money by buying fakes of sets that are pricy on the secondary market, and use the excuse that by doing so you can buy more official LEGO sets as you have saved money, then why not go further and buy fakes of the current sets too? That way you get more (fake) sets for your money.

I'm not talking about buying counterfeit copies of current LEGO sets. That's not an option in my house, hehehe. I'm talking about copies of discontinued sets only. And I'm not saying my way is the right way, I just wanted to put it up for debate :)

Imagine this: someone bought a LEGO WALL-E set - LEGO got its share from it, that's it. Time goes buy, set is discontinued, the person sells the set for 3x its RRP.

What benefits LEGO more? Someone buying a copy of a discontinued set from Lepin, and then buying some current LEGO sets with the remaining money, or someone buying only a LEGO set from the secondary market?

The Pick a Brick option, to make up the set, would benefit LEGO, that's true, but can we say the same about buying the bricks through BL?

Things aren't black and white. And I'm not defending Lepin, I'm playing Devil's advocate while still trying to see things from a TLG point of view.

tmgm528

jnscoelho said:

CCC said:
It is up to you of course. But if you are willing to save money by buying fakes of sets that are pricy on the secondary market, and use the excuse that by doing so you can buy more official LEGO sets as you have saved money, then why not go further and buy fakes of the current sets too? That way you get more (fake) sets for your money.

I'm not talking about buying counterfeit copies of current LEGO sets. That's not an option in my house, hehehe. I'm talking about copies of discontinued sets only. And I'm not saying my way is the right way, I just wanted to put it up for debate :)

He's not saying that's what you're proposing - he's just saying why dont you? The justification is exactly the same, if you're buying it hypothetically to spend more on current lego - why not buy fake current lego to spend more hypothetically on future lego. 

Also to your point about what does LEGO get from buying used - nothing. But same goes for if you buy it from anywhere except S&H. Targets already bought the product from Lego, you buying it from them doesnt directly support Lego. What buying Lepin over Bricklink does do is incentivize Lepin to continue producing, which will lead to people to continue being able to buy their products new (and old) which will eventually (or already is) hurting Lego's bottom line some.