LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

legogal

Looking at real and fake LEGO in toyshops all over the world is one of our favorite activities while on the road. Never know what will pop up next! And the English mistakes are priceless for sure! Much more entertaining than looking at all the old Barbie crap, real and fake, which makes me want to vomit. This thread is a hoot!

LuLego

CCC said:

Interesting concept. Maybe a bit like Gremlins if they feed after midnight?



Or is it the old l / r problem again?

So funny!

and if they meant glow in the dark... Well that's probably a byproduct of the toxic paint they use. 
Anyone seen the episode of Only Fools and Horses with the glow in the dark paint?

Legopassion8

I saw this thread had a bunch of new replies. So I clicked on it to make sure those unruly Poles weren't up in here causing trouble yet again.

Pitfall69

Rainstorm26 said:

CCC said:

Interesting concept. Maybe a bit like Gremlins if they feed after midnight?



Or is it the old l / r problem again?

Is this what the minifigs look like after @Pitfall69 uses his hand held X-ray machine?

I should get % of your "likes" because you are getting "likes" at my expense ;)

Pitfall69

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/18/news/economy/fake-purses-shoes-economy-counterfeit-trade/index.html

I wonder exactly what percentage fake LEGO is? 

SumoLego

Pitfall69 said:

Rainstorm26 said:

Is this what the minifigs look like after @Pitfall69 uses his hand held X-ray machine?

I should get % of your "likes" because you are getting "likes" at my expense ;)

Is this the first instance of the @Pitfall69 Like Tax?  Or is this more of a royalty?

datsunrobbie

Pitfall69 said:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/18/news/economy/fake-purses-shoes-economy-counterfeit-trade/index.html

I wonder exactly what percentage fake LEGO is? 

Has anybody really encountered counterfeit LEGO? I've seen a lot of non-LEGO building toys that closely resemble LEGO, blatant copies of box art and IP, but the article you linked to is about counterfeits - where the seller tries to pass their product off as being the real thing, right down to the logos. I have not seen reports of counterfeit LEGO. 

eggshen

There have been reports of counterfeit LEGO sets out there:
http://mybrickstore.blogspot.com/2015/06/counterfeit-100-exact-lego-minecraft.html

Pitfall69

datsunrobbie said:

Pitfall69 said:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/18/news/economy/fake-purses-shoes-economy-counterfeit-trade/index.html

I wonder exactly what percentage fake LEGO is? 

Has anybody really encountered counterfeit LEGO? I've seen a lot of non-LEGO building toys that closely resemble LEGO, blatant copies of box art and IP, but the article you linked to is about counterfeits - where the seller tries to pass their product off as being the real thing, right down to the logos. I have not seen reports of counterfeit LEGO. 

Yes, there have been many instances where people are selling fake LEGO; especially minifigures. 

Pitfall69

SumoLego said:

Pitfall69 said:

Rainstorm26 said:

Is this what the minifigs look like after @Pitfall69 uses his hand held X-ray machine?

I should get % of your "likes" because you are getting "likes" at my expense ;)

Is this the first instance of the @Pitfall69 Like Tax?  Or is this more of a royalty?

More of a royalty. I put a lot of work looking and sounding like moron...well...not that much work at all actually...and I won't stand for people making a profit...I mean get "likes" off of my hard work...er...me.

SumoLego

^ It'll make it that much more difficult to catch you in total likes.  Plus, it may help your comments/likes ratio.  

Which, according to sabermetrics and @samiam391, is a much better indicia of one's like effective rate.

Who's the moron?  If the last two paragraphs made any sense to anyone, you should be a MLB General Manager.

legobod

Here is a picture of a genuine random minifig next to the same minifig with one part changed. I won't say which part it is but it's from a fake that ended up in my collection. Let's see how many of you can spot it...

plasmodium

I give up. The hands? XD

AndyPol

Legopassion8 said:

I saw this thread had a bunch of new replies. So I clicked on it to make sure those unruly Poles weren't up in here causing trouble yet again.

And your point is......

SumoLego

Definitely not going for deliberate brand confusion...

eggshen

Is that Avengers Headquarters something on Ideas or are the instructions for sale somewhere? I want to build that.

SumoLego

-- Slaps head --

eggshen

Oh and obviously they are ripping of IP that belongs to LEGO. And they are getting better at it. 

But I haven't seen that Avengers Headquarters anywhere, in wondering if it is original (for LEPIN, funny they are all caps too) or if they are branching out into stealing IP from other sources now, such as buying instructions from ebay and making sets that way (like the LOTR sets that are available). 

That being said, I actually like that Headquarters and want to build it (out of LEGO bricks).

I slapped my forehead too when I saw the name. What do you mean, lepins?

Jern92

SumoLego said:

Definitely not going for deliberate brand confusion...

I'd be lying if I said I'm not severely tempted by the Cafe Corner. If they ever release Green Grocer then I'm buying it no matter what.

LuLego

Is that a Bruce banner in headquarters?

CCC

I wonder if they will release the minifigures from the GB headquarters. I'd probably buy a set for the printed arms.

andhe

CCC said:

I wonder if they will release the minifigures from the GB headquarters. I'd probably buy a set for the printed arms.

Most probably. But it'll be a Avengers Vs Ghostbusters set, and everyone will come with some sort of flying vehicle.

BrickDancer

These scum bags know no shame. And for all those out there willing to buying this stuff, please don't support these practices of theft and counterfeit. Every dollar you spend is another dollar of encouragement for these bandits to continue.

Bobflip

I wouldn't touch the clones of current products. But the discontinued sets will certainly tempt more than a few people...

MaffyD

First time I've noticed this "Ausini" brand on Amazon... Those colours!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=toys&field-keywords=ausini

(I know there's another thread on here which mentions them, but that one got... heated).

Recce

Here comes the storm! Lepin Town Hall (not mine).

pharmjod

impressive.

Pitfall69

pharmjod said:

impressive.

Hasn't your tongue fallen off from the many times you have bitten it?

Xefan

Kind of agree that the Avengers headquarters is pretty awesome, there isn't a set like this planned or anything is there?

Would never buy counterfeit, but I'd rather the counterfeiters create sets like that rather than outright clones if anything because at least it forces Lego to compete with them on design, rather than merely price as is the case with copies like the modulars above.

Sucks for Lego, but it can only benefit the consumer if TLG are forced to be more competitive in their designs.

Bobflip

I wonder who's going to bite first and let us know how the brick quality and clutch power of the deleted modulars is...

MattDawson

If I can acquire one, I'll let you know.

brumey

jus purchased town hall, green grocer and cafe corner from aliexpress ....


will let you know when they come!

pharmjod

I've been curious as well. The reviews for the knockoff sets has been largely positive on Ali express. I'd like to do a side by side comparison. Just to see what we are up against.

Bosstone100

I would buy one of the Avengers Headquarters but not at the $150 listed on ebay. Maybe $50 but not $150.

Legopassion8

Fight? Doesn't Lego show off these sets in their vault/museum for compare and contrast reasons? 

Lyichir

Legopassion8 said:

Fight? Doesn't Lego show off these sets in their vault/museum for compare and contrast reasons? 

Well, yes, but that's not to say Lego isn't totally opposed to these bootleg products and frequently engaged in legal efforts to defend their trademarks and patents. The reason for that exhibit in the Idea House is to demonstrate why that fight is so important to them.

Bosstone100

If they cared so much about the Chinese knockoffs, they'd pull their factories out of China.

TigerMoth

Bosstone100 said:

If they cared so much about the Chinese knockoffs, they'd pull their factories out of China.

As has been shown time and time again, the presence of factories in China has no bearing on whether there are copies of any sort being made.

The factories in China are there for a simple reason - the Chinese avoid products that aren't made locally. That's something that happens in many countries across the word.

BrickDancer

^I don't believe that last statement is quite right. The Chinese people do not avoid foreign made goods, they are in love with foreign brands of Europe and US. That's why they work so damn hard and tirelessly to copy them all.

What is true is that the 'Chinese Government likes to avoid products that aren't made locally'. But not on the basis of being Sino-centric or proud of their domestic goods. Rather on the basis of economic protectionism and reciprocity for access to their market. Same as other 3rd world countries like Brazil, using ANVISA (equivalent of US FDA) to block foreign drug products from entering their country under the excuse of higher standards. While in reality, it is to protect their fledgling Pharma industry by raising anti-competition barriers of entry.

TigerMoth

BrickDancer said:

^I don't believe that last statement is quite right. The Chinese people do not avoid foreign made goods, they are in love with foreign brands of Europe and US. That's why they work so damn hard and tirelessly to copy them all.

One of the major market research companies (I think it was American) ran a series of polls a few years ago. They found that the majority of Chinese people prefer to buy locally made products - "majority" was something like three-quarters.

The caveat was that it depended on other aspects being equal. As the clones up their game, TLG don't have a choice - a good Chinese copy beats a Western original.

BrickDancer

^I'd like to see that poll and the actual questions being asked.

'a good Chinese copy beats a Western original'? That''s certainly a new line of thought for me, as I would never have imagined that sentence to be fathomly true until you and Jack Ma said it. Only difference is, he's already back pedaling from that crude view. Because from my personal perspective, the Chinese item would never have existed in the first place if it weren't for actual Western ingenuity and creativity that invented said item to begin with.

datsunrobbie

Polls are like statistics, they can be manipulated to prove whatever point the person running it wants to make.

Here in the US, the majority of people polled would likely say they prefer to buy products that are "made in the USA", even if they have to pay more than an equivalent product made in China. Then they spend hours searching for the cheapest product they can get their hands on, regardless of where it was made.

TigerMoth

BrickDancer said:

'a good Chinese copy beats a Western original'? That''s certainly a new line of thought for me, as I would never have imagined that sentence to be fathomly true until you and Jack Ma said it.

I was referring to the Chinese point of view.

Furthermore, if the Chinese copy everything, including attitudes to quality, there is no reason why it can't be true in a more general sense.

Because from my personal perspective, the Chinese item would never have existed in the first place if it weren't for actual Western ingenuity and creativity that invented said item to begin with.

Neither would any of the Western clones in relation to Danish, or perhaps British ingenuity. But, whether it is right or wrong, life goes on and you deal with what you've got. TLG has chosen to do that by opening the factory in Jianxing - and even to release a set of a model of the factory.

eggshen

I think all of these arguments could be avoided if we redefined what we mean by "clone". There are the "copycat" brands that take an existing product, make a cheap copy of it, and try to trick consumers into thinking it is a LEGO product (thus the cleverly designed logos on the boxes that people that don't read the Latin alphabet can very easily confuse with the legit LEGO logo). Companies like Lepin, Bela, etc. are what I'm talking about here.

The term "clone" seems to actually refer to the companies that make building toys from bricks similar in design to LEGO bricks. These would be companies like Megablox, Kre-O, Cobi, etc. 

I think all of these particular arguments could be avoided if we clearly define the two different types of companies. I can't imagine that anyone here thinks that it is ok for a company to copy another companies IP ("copycat" companies). That being said I think we can all agree that competition from "clone" companies is ultimately good for TLG because as they get better it forces TLG to maintain their standards. 

@TigerMoth, when you are referring to "clones" are you lumping "copycats" in there or are you talking about legit companies that have their own IP's and create their own sets? I really feel that hackles are being raised because some people are talking about one type of company vs a different type of company, but everyone is calling all other companies "clones".

dougts

Megablocks, Kre-O, etc shouldn't be called clones at all - they should be called competitors, just like we call pepsi a competitor to coke, not a coke clone.  More examples ad nauseum..

That would clear up the confusion. they when people are talking about clones, we would all agree and know that we are talking about companies engaging in illegal (at least in the Western world) IP infringement.

TigerMoth

eggshen said:

I think all of these arguments could be avoided if we redefined what we mean by "clone"

I don't think it would - if only because periodically somebody tries to do just that and the attempt fails!

Everybody seems to have their own idea of what fits into each category and there's a lot of crossover anyway. There are be companies that only reproduce TLG's products, those that only produce their own, and those that produce both. Some produce pieces of their own design; others do not. Furthermore every part of the world has different brands stretching the definitions in a variety of different directions. Some companies also emulate the packaging to some degree or another and then things start getting subjective.

And when is a product a copy and when is it just another manufacturer's version of the original. They're obviously likely to be close, but how close?

And are you talking about pieces or sets? TLG lost the battle on the humble 2 x 4, but what about that newer piece from five years ago? Two years? Ten?

@TigerMoth, when you are referring to "clones" are you lumping "copycats" in there or are you talking about legit companies that have their own IP's and create their own sets?

In this part of the debate, I don't see that it matters.

SumoLego

Bosstone100 said:

If they cared so much about the Chinese knockoffs, they'd pull their factories out of China.

Cheaper production facilities have nothing to do with the extent of IP theft.

Aanchir

Chinese companies have been cloning LEGO products, even some of the most technical ones out there, since long before LEGO produced sets in China. For that matter, Chinese companies have successfully created copies of LEGO molds and minifigures that NEVER EXISTED outside of video games or concept art. I'll never understand why people continue to believe that these knock-off companies can only do what they do with direct access to a nearby LEGO factory.

Recce

Bobflip said:

I wonder who's going to bite first and let us know how the brick quality and clutch power of the deleted modulars is...

Just finished building the one and only copycat set I have, the Lepin Cafe Corner. I don't have the Lego original so can't do a direct compare but overall experience is surprisingly positive for me, though I'm sure a diehard AFOL will still have lots to nitpick on.

Took some pictures as below, you can see that the bricks are pretty well clutched together, finishing is about as good as Lego, but the trans parts and panels are kinda dull and not as clear as they should be. There are around 3 of the 2x1x3 dark red slope bricks which look to be fractions of an mm shorter than the rest (guess their QC isn't as strict), other than that no major problems for me.

Almost all the bricks are used up with 2 leftover parts, unlike Lego sets which usually have extra 1x1 studs, plates, tiles etc. In my set, there is a missing 1x2 plate and one 1x4 plate which is of the wrong colour. The 2 large plates which were used as the base kinda flexed up around the edges, a problem which can be solved by replacing them with a Lego baseplate. 





The minifigures are still in pieces.

nhyone

Did Lepin just came out with these recently? (Recently as in the past few months.)

Because I just recalled what my local ezbuy deliveryman told me two months ago: that he had been delivering "nothing but" these large "Lego" sets recently.

At that time I thought it was bonafide Lego sets, but now I think not.