LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

CCC

MaffyD said:

^ Agreed. I want official stuff, so I've taken the book off my wishlist - it got rubbish reviews on Amazon anyway.

I was just about to post "read the reviews first". I hadn't heard of the book, so cannot comment on it, but the two reviews look quite bad.

dougts

CCC said:

CaptainPirateMan said:

IP infringing is a tough one for us Lego fans imo. Generally speaking, the majority of us don't mind if it's a custom company, such as minifigs.me, or companies that make parts (monorail) that Lego no longer makes. 

It has been a recurring theme on this thread: it is OK to rip-off IP if you are "doing it for the community" or "are a real LEGO fan". Yet everyone does it for profit. It is just the scale that varies.

the hypocrisy on this issue has long been nauseating to me

Hanzo

I am by no means a lawyer, but it doesn't seem like it's a infringement of an IP as long as they aren't selling it under the licensed name right?  So if they make a fig that looks like a Game of Thrones character and sell it it's fine, but when they use the characters name it becomes a problem right?  I mean the act of reprinting Lego minifigs and selling them isn't an infraction.  But if you molded your own figs using their specs there'd be an issue.  Or am I looking at this wrong?

datsunrobbie

^A Game of Thrones character you might get away with as a generic medieval fantasy character. Try putting Mickey Mouse on a cake and Disney will sue you, and they will win. As far as I know LEGO still has trademark rights to minifigures, so making your own would be a problem on that front.

The vast majority of custom minifigures for sale are violating somebody's IP rights, but the rights-holders are either unaware of the infraction or aware that litigation won't have a positive financial outcome, so they don't do anything about it. If one of these custom minifigure makers did something exceptionally stupid that gets a lot of press, like marketing a set of "Nazi War Heroes", owners of all the IP they have been using without authorization would probably become interested and sue them into oblivion.

Bobflip

Some of LEGO's own CMF series skate that line as well with characters such as COL174 Saxaphone Player, which we all know is really a Blues Brother, and COL075 Detective, is blatantly Sherlock Holmes.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

Nazi War Heroes?  
Sign me up for at least two sets!
Sigh....

CCC

They are really targetting army builders / customisers now too ...



10 shields for whatever faction you like for 86p delivered. Same with the matching armour.

CCC

Or whole prebuilt armies for different factions at 70p a figure.

monkeyhanger

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA said:

Nazi War Heroes?  
Sign me up for at least two sets!
Sigh....

While on a city break in Budapest, I did notice a few tobacconist shops had an array of tin soldier figures that were Hitler in various costumes e.g. Luftwaffe Hitler and Panzer tank driver Hitler etc. Thought it very odd for them to be selling that stuff so openly.

Klintan

^ Now why would that be so strange? You can find him in various situations at http://www.kingandcountry.com/ for instance.

datsunrobbie

Sigh...
Substitute whatever loathsome thing you want for "Nazi War Heroes" in my prior post. The point is that the vast majority of the public does not even know that custom minifigure makers exist, and as long as it stays that way they can mostly get away with IP infringement, because it is not worth the IP holder's effort to shut them down. But if they suddenly "went viral" with something that IP holders don't want to be associated with, those IP holders may decide to stomp on them to mitigate damage to their own brand.

Aanchir

Bobflip said:

Some of LEGO's own CMF series skate that line as well with characters such as COL174 Saxaphone Player, which we all know is really a Blues Brother, and COL075 Detective, is blatantly Sherlock Holmes.

For the Detective, at least, LEGO isn't skirting any sort of line, because Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain.

CMI

How could this be possible? Lepin produced LEGO Ideas set before Lego made it? I wonder what Lego ideas winner would feel about this. https://youtu.be/hTiiuq8zQXI

CCC

CMI said:

How could this be possible? Lepin produced LEGO Ideas set before Lego made it?

Yes, they occasionally beat lego to it, especially if the design is online. In minifigures, especially movie based ones, they frequently beat lego.

stlux

That somehow looks a lot worse than Jacob Sadovich's creation. Is it the video quality, or is the "glass" more opaque? The bottle is also larger than the Ideas model, completely messing up the optics/scale of the ship.

nhyone

CMI said:

How could this be possible? Lepin produced LEGO Ideas set before Lego made it?

In that case, is it still copying?

It looks like Lepin took some liberties in its haste.

Russell844

I've already seen images of a Lepin version of The Joker Manor.

Aanchir

Russell844 said:

I've already seen images of a Lepin version of The Joker Manor.

In cases like that it's almost always just photoshopped promotional images of the real LEGO set and not actual models they've started producing. The same thing happened with the Silent Mary set earlier this year… AFOLs started sharing pics of the version Lepin had "already copied" as proof LEPIN had an "inside source", even though they were obviously just hasty photoshops of leaked box photos and officially revealed LEGO images that were already making the rounds!

Bobflip

Aanchir said:

Bobflip said:

Some of LEGO's own CMF series skate that line as well with characters such as COL174 Saxaphone Player, which we all know is really a Blues Brother, and COL075 Detective, is blatantly Sherlock Holmes.

For the Detective, at least, LEGO isn't skirting any sort of line, because Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain.

Ah, didn't know that. I wonder why they didn't outright name it then!

Glacierfalls265

I love how they applied Pirates of the Caribbean music to the video...

monkyby87

FowlerBricks said:

CaptainPirateMan said:

Am I the only one that finds all these Batman variations ridiculous? The Lego Batman movie CMF did nothing for me.

Yes, I do find them ridiculous, but that's why I love them!!

Yeah, nobody was buying fairy batman because they thought he looked like a good crime fighting detective.

FowlerBricks

monkyby87 said:

FowlerBricks said:

CaptainPirateMan said:

Am I the only one that finds all these Batman variations ridiculous? The Lego Batman movie CMF did nothing for me.

Yes, I do find them ridiculous, but that's why I love them!!

Yeah, nobody was buying fairy batman because they thought he looked like a good crime fighting detective.

Weell...fairy Batman was where I drew the line.

Aanchir

Bobflip said:

Aanchir said:

Bobflip said:

Some of LEGO's own CMF series skate that line as well with characters such as COL174 Saxaphone Player, which we all know is really a Blues Brother, and COL075 Detective, is blatantly Sherlock Holmes.

For the Detective, at least, LEGO isn't skirting any sort of line, because Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain.

Ah, didn't know that. I wonder why they didn't outright name it then!

Not sure exactly why, but The LEGO Movie series is the only one that has used the actual names of its historical or literary character figs. It's the same as how the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde figure is "Mr. Good and Evil" or the Cleopatra fig is "Egyptian Queen". Could be just a precaution so that if some non-kid-friendly adaptation of those characters comes about, parents won't think LEGO was intentionally alluding to that. Or it could be just so that kids don't get preoccupied with the idea that "these are existing characters" and uses them however they see fit.

Pmh

When you see all the lepin sets,sometimes for as less as 10%! Of price,it makes you wonder. Why is LEGO so expensive.
i dont know other fakes nor would i buy one,but what lepin does is kinda impressive.

willobee498

Pmh said:

When you see all the lepin sets,sometimes for as less as 10%! Of price,it makes you wonder. Why is LEGO so expensive.
i dont know other fakes nor would i buy one,but what lepin does is kinda impressive.

Stealing someone else's hard work (negotiating and acquiring licenses, designing sets, parts, instructions, boxes, paying their employees a reasonable wage, various legal fees, yada yada yada) is not impressive. Ultimately making the pieces and chucking them in a bag is not expensive, but with everything else it adds up. And Lego makes sets that are clearly very popular and well made, and thus deserve to make a nice profit. I'm sure their prices could be lower, but so far the market says they don't need to be.

Bobflip

Having bought a set (the 10179 a year ago... only actually got the time to build it in the week before the new one was released!), I can tell you that the quality isn't quite the same as Lego's, getting that extra 5-10% would cost a bunch more. Lepin's surfaces are slightly rippled, occasionally pieces won't fit, and there may well end up being a few pieces missing. These are the result of cut corners and reduced production costs.

dougts

willobee498 said:

Pmh said:

When you see all the lepin sets,sometimes for as less as 10%! Of price,it makes you wonder. Why is LEGO so expensive.
i dont know other fakes nor would i buy one,but what lepin does is kinda impressive.

Stealing someone else's hard work (negotiating and acquiring licenses, designing sets, parts, instructions, boxes, paying their employees a reasonable wage, various legal fees, yada yada yada) is not impressive. Ultimately making the pieces and chucking them in a bag is not expensive, but with everything else it adds up. And Lego makes sets that are clearly very popular and well made, and thus deserve to make a nice profit. I'm sure their prices could be lower, but so far the market says they don't need to be.

I think it's a bit in the middle. Absolutely all that has real cost associated with it. But even with all those internal costs, LEGO margins are insanely high. They are such a white hot product they have been milking it like crazy and printing money 

CCC

Aanchir said:

Bobflip said:

Aanchir said:

Bobflip said:

Some of LEGO's own CMF series skate that line as well with characters such as COL174 Saxaphone Player, which we all know is really a Blues Brother, and COL075 Detective, is blatantly Sherlock Holmes.

For the Detective, at least, LEGO isn't skirting any sort of line, because Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain.

Ah, didn't know that. I wonder why they didn't outright name it then!

Not sure exactly why, but The LEGO Movie series is the only one that has used the actual names of its historical or literary character figs. It's the same as how the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde figure is "Mr. Good and Evil" or the Cleopatra fig is "Egyptian Queen".

During the time of TLM, some of the minifigures bios online were changed. The Egyptian Queen was renamed as Cleopatra online, but it has since been changed back. Although look at the link name ...

https://www.lego.com/en-us/minifigures/characters/cleopatra-4c42acfe06ce4b3bb00fbd28ce099441

They are still using the name there in the URL. Similarly, the Detective was also briefly changed to Sherlock, and the URL is still ...

https://www.lego.com/en-us/minifigures/characters/sherlock-2290eb64478549539b250927455781e0

Lexcortin

I support this fight because it's simply unfair both for the collector and the original manufacturer. Moreover, we don't know if the working conditions in the fake manufacturers are even humane or just exploit young workers. These products should be banned in the market. Unfortunately, it tend to attract many buyers worldwide.

SumoLego

CCC said:
...The Egyptian Queen was renamed as Cleopatra online, but it was changed back...

...the Detective was also briefly changed to Sherlock...

I would chalk that up to LEGO's avoidance of either possible IP enfringement, or any association whatsoever with anything that could be considered controversial.  Granted, Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde and Cleopatra are all in the public domain, but all have recent movies or other media that could bend some noses or step on toes.

Bobflip

Lexcortin said:

I support this fight because it's simply unfair both for the collector and the original manufacturer. Moreover, we don't know if the working conditions in the fake manufacturers are even humane or just exploit young workers. These products should be banned in the market. Unfortunately, it tend to attract many buyers worldwide.

I'm not backing up Lepin here, but while it is indeed unfair for the original manufacturer, I'm not sure it's unfair for the collector. Those wanting legit sets may well be able to get them cheaper than the existing inflated after-market prices - LEGO of course don't see any profit from those after-market prices as well. And regarding the second point... that's just it, we don't know. Can't really make a judgement on something that isn't known!

Charmiefcb

Bobflip said:

Lexcortin said:

I support this fight because it's simply unfair both for the collector and the original manufacturer. Moreover, we don't know if the working conditions in the fake manufacturers are even humane or just exploit young workers. These products should be banned in the market. Unfortunately, it tend to attract many buyers worldwide.

I'm not backing up Lepin here, but while it is indeed unfair for the original manufacturer, I'm not sure it's unfair for the collector. Those wanting legit sets may well be able to get them cheaper than the existing inflated after-market prices - LEGO of course don't see any profit from those after-market prices as well. And regarding the second point... that's just it, we don't know. Can't really make a judgement on something that isn't known!

Sadly Lego probably won't rerelease these over inflated price on the secondary market sets. Evan 'classic' sets they know they will sell out of easily.
They re-release a modular or other highly sought after set here and there on a limited run it sort of stops the 'need' for Lepin for completionists that can't afford or refuse to pay some of the prices on the secondary market.
I've spoken to people who have bought Lepin sets becuase of the secondary market prices. I don't agree with it but I can understand. Why pay $1000 for something you want to build a put on display or in a Lego City or pay $100.
Would I buy Lepin for a set I want? (Green Grocer) No. Would I buy a re-release from Lego? Of course.

If i was running Lego I would have a classics line of old classic sets and highly sought after retired sets. relese maybe 5 or 6 a year if we have the bricks in production of course.

monkeyhanger

You'd have to be a hardcore completionist with lots of display room to be tempted to get the very early ones as a Lepin snide set, they honestly don't look that good next to the newer ones, building techniques and detailing have come such a long way in the last few years. You can see this across all themes - especially Star Wars. Most people here wouldn't want to mix the 2 brands. Haven't seen Lepin 2nd hand resale figures yet, but I seriously doubt they hold their value like a well looked after and complete Lego set that hasn't been redone better recently.

Really surprised Disney don't pursue Lepin for license infringement on Avengers/Disney/Star Wars sets.

PapaBear

Lego doesn't gain from after market sales directly, but they certainly get the money from the initial purchase of the set for planned sale in the aftermarket.  LEGO will never admit they gain from resellers, but they do.  I don't think they will rerelease modulars because the only ones with crazy prices are Cafe Corner, Green Grocer, and Market Street (if you consider it modular).  It would be counterproductive to rerelease a modular in the slot of a normal modular unless they were going to do two in one year.  I know they will start rerelease certain sets with upgrades though. 

It looks like Lepin is releasing their own designs of modulars now.  This stands to hurt LEGO more than the copies.  I like the looks of other modular designs people sell on eBay, but the fact that I have to Bricklink its pieces really detracts me.  I have no way of knowing if those designed modulars will end up costing me $500 in the end.  Lepin will most likely release many modulars each year and they will pull in sales to AFOLs, taking more sales away from LEGO.

daewoo

I was able to experience a Lepin set the other day - a Green Grocer copy.  It looked good from a distance but as I approached it, there were slight gaps between some of the bricks and the windows in the bottom left looked wonky.  The 1x2 tiles do not line up at all.  It looked very cheap and the owner said that it was a frustrating building experience.  He won't be buying anything made by Lepin again.

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

CCC

daewoo said:

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

Or just substitute any of the rare parts that you are not willing to pay the going rate for using other more readily available cheaper parts.

Often LEGO won't want to do runs of now obscure parts/colours that are not used in anything else just for people wanting to build a set from years before. Whereas if a designer reuses a part/colour in a current set then there is a chance of the part being made again.

datsunrobbie

CCC said:

daewoo said:

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

Or just substitute any of the rare parts that you are not willing to pay the going rate for using other more readily available cheaper parts.

Often LEGO won't want to do runs of now obscure parts/colours that are not used in anything else just for people wanting to build a set from years before. Whereas if a designer reuses a part/colour in a current set then there is a chance of the part being made again.

The LEGO Ideas rules say you must use existing LEGO parts, but does not specifically state they have to be parts currently in production. Maybe somebody could design something using a bunch of the discontinued parts...

CCC

datsunrobbie said:

The LEGO Ideas rules say you must use existing LEGO parts, but does not specifically state they have to be parts currently in production. Maybe somebody could design something using a bunch of the discontinued parts...

Although LEGO will then redesign it using the close current matches to the parts.

Bobflip

Charmiefcb said:

Sadly Lego probably won't rerelease these over inflated price on the secondary market sets. Evan 'classic' sets they know they will sell out of easily.
They re-release a modular or other highly sought after set here and there on a limited run it sort of stops the 'need' for Lepin for completionists that can't afford or refuse to pay some of the prices on the secondary market.
I've spoken to people who have bought Lepin sets becuase of the secondary market prices. I don't agree with it but I can understand. Why pay $1000 for something you want to build a put on display or in a Lego City or pay $100.
Would I buy Lepin for a set I want? (Green Grocer) No. Would I buy a re-release from Lego? Of course.

If i was running Lego I would have a classics line of old classic sets and highly sought after retired sets. relese maybe 5 or 6 a year if we have the bricks in production of course.

Indeed, I bought the Falcon clone last year because I couldn't afford the aftermarket price, but would have preferred to buy legit. Of course, now there's the rerelease, but I wouldn't have had £650 available for that at this point anyway. I hope that LEGO keep the new one out for long enough that people can save up for it
(And I partially wonder if Lepin's bootleg helped push LEGO towards making the new one)

CCC said:

daewoo said:

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

Or just substitute any of the rare parts that you are not willing to pay the going rate for using other more readily available cheaper parts.

Often LEGO won't want to do runs of now obscure parts/colours that are not used in anything else just for people wanting to build a set from years before. Whereas if a designer reuses a part/colour in a current set then there is a chance of the part being made again.

I (and many others!) would love it if they chose to do more of a Parts-on-Demand approach to Pick a Brick. Logistically it would be difficult, but I'm sure they could if they tried, and it would surely be a boon for the MOC communities.

Of course, this may be another avenue for clone brands to take in the future.

CCC

Bobflip said:

CCC said:

daewoo said:

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

Or just substitute any of the rare parts that you are not willing to pay the going rate for using other more readily available cheaper parts.

Often LEGO won't want to do runs of now obscure parts/colours that are not used in anything else just for people wanting to build a set from years before. Whereas if a designer reuses a part/colour in a current set then there is a chance of the part being made again.

I (and many others!) would love it if they chose to do more of a Parts-on-Demand approach to Pick a Brick. Logistically it would be difficult, but I'm sure they could if they tried, and it would surely be a boon for the MOC communities.

Of course, this may be another avenue for clone brands to take in the future.

I'm sure they could if they tried, but I don't think they care. I imagine it would not be cost effective, and if it costs them money or doesn't make them enough money (when they could be making money doing other stuff), then why bother.

PapaBear

monkeyhanger said:

Really surprised Disney don't pursue Lepin for license infringement on Avengers/Disney/Star Wars sets.

It might be surprising that Disney doesn't sue somebody for license infringement, but it wouldn't do much good even if they won.  It would be a big waste of money for a temporary shut down.  That would only work in the states or Europe.

It would most likely never halt IP infringed sales in Asia, and even if Lepin had to shut down (which I don't think they would), they would just start up again under a new rebrand.  It would most likely just piss off the company and encourage them to double down on IP infringement.  Most of the workers and some of the corporate execs probably don't even view it as counterfeiting, but copying something they appreciate in an attempt to do it better.

Bobflip

CCC said:

Bobflip said:

CCC said:

daewoo said:

I would like a copy of Green Grocer but I'm not willing to pay what the aftermarket wants and I certainly don't want a clone.  Maybe Lego could look at doing runs of the unique pieces and offering those for sale in the Pick a Brick section? 

Or just substitute any of the rare parts that you are not willing to pay the going rate for using other more readily available cheaper parts.

Often LEGO won't want to do runs of now obscure parts/colours that are not used in anything else just for people wanting to build a set from years before. Whereas if a designer reuses a part/colour in a current set then there is a chance of the part being made again.

I (and many others!) would love it if they chose to do more of a Parts-on-Demand approach to Pick a Brick. Logistically it would be difficult, but I'm sure they could if they tried, and it would surely be a boon for the MOC communities.

Of course, this may be another avenue for clone brands to take in the future.

I'm sure they could if they tried, but I don't think they care. I imagine it would not be cost effective, and if it costs them money or doesn't make them enough money (when they could be making money doing other stuff), then why bother.

Sadly that's likely true. I think they could probably do it with a margin of profit, and run it in the less busy times when they're not rushing towards building Christmas stock or other busy periods, but they're unlikely to do it. They could charge a bit more for parts-to-demand, but in many cases it'd be less than the after-market prices. Heck, they could even do it in the same way that electronics companies do, and have reseller companies submit bulk orders, ship out a large lot of parts, and then MOCcers can buy the parts from the resellers. Typing this doesn't make it any more likely though...

Bosstone100

I'd love to see dark red 1x2 plates on the PaB wall.

AustinPowers

daewoo said:

I was able to experience a Lepin set the other day - a Green Grocer copy.  It looked good from a distance but as I approached it, there were slight gaps between some of the bricks and the windows in the bottom left looked wonky.  The 1x2 tiles do not line up at all.  It looked very cheap and the owner said that it was a frustrating building experience.  He won't be buying anything made by Lepin again.

Perhaps Lepin quality has worsened, but when I bought and built my Lepin Green Grocer clone last year, the finished product looked almost 100% like the real thing. A few parts were of a different design, and because of a mistake the seller made, the bag with all the sand-green 1x8 bricks was missing (got a partial refund for that error). I replaced those 1x8s with the much cheaper 1x4 bricks of the same colour, plus replaced the bricks that were of a different design as well as the large window pane pieces, because Lepin transparent pieces seem(ed) to be more milky in appearance.

The building experience was just as enjoyable as with any original Lego modular (I had built the "real" DO, PR and PC in the months before). Fit and finish of the pieces was no different than on a real Lego set, apart from the 1x2 hinge plate pieces. But as this was just a problem on a few of them and in areas where it didn't matter, it didn't affect the finished build at all.

All in all, I have now got a GG clone that looks just like the real thing, and for less than 75 Euro including cost of the replacement parts. I also got the Town Hall and the Haunted House for a similar amount of money and with a similar experience. And as these are just used as display pieces I don't mind the fact that they are clones, as the parts will never get mixed with my real Lego collection.

That being said, I don't intend to buy any more Lepin sets either. Not because I think the quality is bad, but because the abovementioned three sets were the only discontinued sets with crazy aftermarket prices that were of any interest to me. And I would never even consider getting Lepin or other clones of current Lego sets.

CaptainPirateMan

AustinPowers said:

daewoo said:

I was able to experience a Lepin set the other day - a Green Grocer copy.  It looked good from a distance but as I approached it, there were slight gaps between some of the bricks and the windows in the bottom left looked wonky.  The 1x2 tiles do not line up at all.  It looked very cheap and the owner said that it was a frustrating building experience.  He won't be buying anything made by Lepin again.

Perhaps Lepin quality has worsened, but when I bought and built my Lepin Green Grocer clone last year, the finished product looked almost 100% like the real thing. A few parts were of a different design, and because of a mistake the seller made, the bag with all the sand-green 1x8 bricks was missing (got a partial refund for that error). I replaced those 1x8s with the much cheaper 1x4 bricks of the same colour, plus replaced the bricks that were of a different design as well as the large window pane pieces, because Lepin transparent pieces seem(ed) to be more milky in appearance.

The building experience was just as enjoyable as with any original Lego modular (I had built the "real" DO, PR and PC in the months before). Fit and finish of the pieces was no different than on a real Lego set, apart from the 1x2 hinge plate pieces. But as this was just a problem on a few of them and in areas where it didn't matter, it didn't affect the finished build at all.

All in all, I have now got a GG clone that looks just like the real thing, and for less than 75 Euro including cost of the replacement parts. I also got the Town Hall and the Haunted House for a similar amount of money and with a similar experience. And as these are just used as display pieces I don't mind the fact that they are clones, as the parts will never get mixed with my real Lego collection.

That being said, I don't intend to buy any more Lepin sets either. Not because I think the quality is bad, but because the abovementioned three sets were the only discontinued sets with crazy aftermarket prices that were of any interest to me. And I would never even consider getting Lepin or other clones of current Lego sets.

Pretty much my sentiments. Although I do have a few more. The only Lepin sets that appealed to me where the ones that were high in the after market. I have far more Lego sets in my layout. I just wanted the retired modulars, IFS and HH. I do feel bad for supporting Lepin in any way, but they provided a way to fill a "need" of mine. Having said that, I'm completely done with them. Honestly I hope Lego shuts them down. They got a few hundred of my dollars, they did. Lego has gotten a few thousand of my dollars though, so I have clearly supported lego. Im not trying to excuse my behavior, just being honest. I LOVE Lego and want to see them succeed.

CaptainPirateMan

Who here is still following Lepin? I admittedly stopped caring once I acquired the retired sets I was after. The reason why I ask is I am a member of the every brick group on FB, and it seems like Lepin is doing all of these "presales" but I haven't seen an actual new release in quite some time. My interest is peaked in the Flying Dutchman they claim to be releasing. Not that I want to buy it, I am just curious what their final set will look like, I know it's based off of MOC'S, but I still don't know whose MOC. Anyways... it's been in "presale" since July. From my understanding, it seems like Lepin has a lot of sets in "presale" right now, but not actually available. The sets that they are selling still, are the same ones that were available last year (for the most part anyways). 

I just wonder if they sense their impending demise (Lego lawsuit), and are basically just trying to get as much money as possible with all these presales, even though they know full well they don't actually plan on releasing these sets. Or if they DO, it'll be once the Lego lawsuit is decided. It also feels like a convienant way for Lepin to say to the courts "look we make sets Lego doesnt" even though they haven't actually made it into production. From my understanding, the only sets they made that can be some what considered "theirs" (even though they stole them from MOCCERS) are the three large buildings they did, the museums and what not. But beyond those three, it feels like smoke and mirrors to me. I'm curious if anyone has been following them, or might have some insight that I may have missed.

eggshen

I watch them, mostly just because I am interested in what happens when TLG gets into that market.
I don't think they are trying to make a cash grab, I think they are actually doing that well. From what others have said, their quality continues to improve. They now have numbered bags and their minifigures have better quality and their sets have fewer missing parts. Lepin is owned by the same company that also owns Xinbao, who has been collaborating with MOCers to get their sets made.
I think the presells are for the stores to know how many to order from Lepin, they aren't actually for Lepin (from what I understand about Aliexpress, etc). 
I notice that the presells are going on the sites earlier and earlier. For example, sellers put presells on their sites right after Ninjago City was announced, but it took at least 2 months until they were actually available. 

This is just what I have observed, but I might be wrong. Very interested in how the lawsuit goes, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about it since it was delayed until September, which was last month.

PapaBear

@eggshen Yes, I thought someone had eluded to the fact that Lepin was working with MOCers because there are honestly so many MOC sets that don't get made and only a few that go to IDEAS.  LEGO may have pushed this move seeing as how they can't release a lot of MOC sets and some they do release seem to be rip offs of the MOCs.

@CaptainPirateMan The main MOC I keep finding of the Flying Dutchman is not the one Lepin has for presale.  They are probably hiring MOCers to create original sets for them.  It looks like Xingbao is the main company that makes authentic non-counterfeit designs and Lepin is the company that makes blatant counterfeits of IP current and discontinued sets (which they really shouldn't do).  Xiaomi also looks like it's getting in on the action with the new "LEGO-compatible" robot which stands on just two wheels and moves around.  It looks like Lepin has plenty of sets that LEGO doesn't make including a Nebulon-B and tons others.  The offerings will only get bigger.  If they fold under a lawsuit, one of the other companies will easily aquire their assets and all they would have to do is not copy IP anymore.

The problem with searching through the websites is Aliexpress is very weird and hard to navigate.  I ordered a Emerald Night from Lepin for $37, but there were at least 12 different listings of the Emerald Night, many of which with different price points.  I understand many could be different quality, but not all of them could be different.

CCC

eggshen said:

I think the presells are for the stores to know how many to order from Lepin, they aren't actually for Lepin (from what I understand about Aliexpress, etc). 
I notice that the presells are going on the sites earlier and earlier. For example, sellers put presells on their sites right after Ninjago City was announced, but it took at least 2 months until they were actually available. 

This is correct. Lepin actually sells very little to AFOLs. They sell to resellers, who then sell on. The people selling them are just shifting boxes (or bags), with little care what they are.

datsunrobbie

Are any of these non-LEGO companies putting into production genuinely original MOC designs, or just scaling up production of IP infringing MOCs that gets a pass because it was done by an "AFOL" instead of an "evil Chinese company"?