LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

Switchfoot55

^^crapsandwich 

IceCreamClone

I remember hearing about these knockoff micro scale Minecraft sets with LEGO branding, but that was at least a year or two ago, so I'm guessing they aren't around anymore.

SumoLego

CCC said:

...apparently there are some real fakes coming out now ...

That is definitely a 'genuine' fake.  (Now, it's not a misnomer!)

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

Stop being silly!
it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the Worlds most popular single toy brand to be counterfeited.  It's not like their strongly guarded designs, moulds and manufacturing processes are being pumped out of a factory in somewhere like China or something!




Oh...

ACWWGal2011

pharmjod said:

IceCreamClone said:

Wow, I guess I must be lucky. I have three lego stores within an hour of my house. Must suck to not have any nearby.

How does the clearance scene look in your neck of the woods? I'm willing to bet mine is exponentially better. I'll take regular super cheap LEGO over having a LEGO store close just about any day of the week. 

Yea but the problem is that some of us aren't lucky to live where there's much in the way of decent sales. Where i live, its like "Wait 6 months to a year and you might get lucky on a couple really good scores otherwise its *Meh* at best"

samiam391

ACWWGal2011 said:

pharmjod said:

IceCreamClone said:

Wow, I guess I must be lucky. I have three lego stores within an hour of my house. Must suck to not have any nearby.

How does the clearance scene look in your neck of the woods? I'm willing to bet mine is exponentially better. I'll take regular super cheap LEGO over having a LEGO store close just about any day of the week. 

Yea but the problem is that some of us aren't lucky to live where there's much in the way of decent sales. Where i live, its like "Wait 6 months to a year and you might get lucky on a couple really good scores otherwise its *Meh* at best"

I think that's how most of us live.

pharmjod

@ACWWGal2011 I was just poking at the "I live within spitting distance of a million LEGO stores, how to the rest of you plebes function" comment =) 
(I am exaggerating of course)
It makes me feel better that even though I don't get to regularly go to a LEGO store I have frequent access to healthy clearance prices on a number of desirable sets. It makes the hobby $ go further. I realize the clearance prices are also a luxury in their own right.

MaffyD

I live 20 minutes from a Lego Store. I have to be very careful as to how often I go there, otherwise I'd have very little money left!

Not because I'd spend it on Lego - I'm very disciplined that way, but it's too close to Pandora, Lindt, Fossil, Swarovski and SuperDry!

SumoLego

MaffyD said:
...Pandora...Swarovski...

I hate those places.  I wish I thought of it first!  I can't tell you how many of those blasted things that have robbed me of my Lego budget...

AndyPol

Unbelievable, only a couple of days since LEGO announced Ninjago City, you can get a LEPIN "Ninjasaga movie" building that looks very similar.....

andhe

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

CCC

The title NinjaSaga makes sense. That is unlike them!

Lyichir

andhe said:

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

andhe

Lyichir said:

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

Yes I figured this might be the case.

CCC

A lot of them will probably be sold without a box anyway, to save on postage.

AndyPol

AndyPol said:

Unbelievable, only a couple of days since LEGO announced Ninjago City, you can get a LEPIN "Ninjasaga movie" building that looks very similar.....

I've e-mailed the link to LEGO and they have got back to me already and said thank you.

It does say on the website (I didn't put the link on here on purpose as I didn't want to encourage purchases) that an extra 30 days should be added for delivery due to being a "presell" item.

Photoshopped or not, the images look like they been taken straight off the LEGO images.

monkeyhanger

^ Presell alliws them to wait until they get their hands on a proper copy and then duplicate it with their own stuff.

ACWWGal2011

Lyichir said:

andhe said:

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

  

As far as the Behind the scenes theory there's people on the "Every Brick Group" on facebook, including me, who strongly believe that there's no such thing as a separate company called "Lepin" but instead Lepin is nothing but a secret/hidden branch to the Lego company.

As far as the box, that's part of what's driving me nuts. I can find results for Lepin mountain cave boxes but no official info so i don't know if its a real deal or not. Hope it is b/c i REALLY want that set

ricecake

ACWWGal2011 said:

As far as the Behind the scenes theory there's people on the "Every Brick Group" on facebook, including me, who strongly believe that there's no such thing as a separate company called "Lepin" but instead Lepin is nothing but a secret/hidden branch to the Lego company.

If true, then why would they be raising legal action against themselves?
https://brickset.com/article/23648/the-lego-group-takes-action-against-clone-brand-lepin

samiam391

ACWWGal2011 said:

Lyichir said:

andhe said:

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

  

As far as the Behind the scenes theory there's people on the "Every Brick Group" on facebook, including me, who strongly believe that there's no such thing as a separate company called "Lepin" but instead Lepin is nothing but a secret/hidden branch to the Lego company.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but what in the world would be the financial incentive to undercut themselves on price, devalue their own brand, etc? Am I missing something here?

Lyichir

samiam391 said:

ACWWGal2011 said:

Lyichir said:

andhe said:

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

  

As far as the Behind the scenes theory there's people on the "Every Brick Group" on facebook, including me, who strongly believe that there's no such thing as a separate company called "Lepin" but instead Lepin is nothing but a secret/hidden branch to the Lego company.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but what in the world would be the financial incentive to undercut themselves on price, devalue their own brand, etc? Am I missing something here?

There's no logic to it. In addition to the factors you mentioned, doing so would also completely jeopardize Lego's relationships with licensing partners, since Lepin does not hesitate to copy licensed sets, and if such an action were discovered by companies like Disney or Warner Bros. they would not hesitate to pull out of their licensing contracts with Lego. Of course, if you're intent on buying counterfeit products anyway, it does make for a convenient way to justify it to yourself—probably the only reason such a ridiculous conspiracy theory exists in the first place.

ACWWGal2011

Lyichir said:

samiam391 said:

ACWWGal2011 said:

Lyichir said:

andhe said:

Man that was quick. It's almost like they have access to production behind the scenes or something

As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released. Literally anyone moderately skilled with Photoshop could create the same thing.

  

As far as the Behind the scenes theory there's people on the "Every Brick Group" on facebook, including me, who strongly believe that there's no such thing as a separate company called "Lepin" but instead Lepin is nothing but a secret/hidden branch to the Lego company.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but what in the world would be the financial incentive to undercut themselves on price, devalue their own brand, etc? Am I missing something here?

There's no logic to it. In addition to the factors you mentioned, doing so would also completely jeopardize Lego's relationships with licensing partners, since Lepin does not hesitate to copy licensed sets, and if such an action were discovered by companies like Disney or Warner Bros. they would not hesitate to pull out of their licensing contracts with Lego. Of course, if you're intent on buying counterfeit products anyway, it does make for a convenient way to justify it to yourself—probably the only reason such a ridiculous conspiracy theory exists in the first place.

to date, the only fake legos buying I've been doing is some figures and a set of knock off dino's i got while at comic con last year.

Honestly i'd rather buy the real deal from lego since they bags tend to be numbered but the problem is that I did the math plus checked though the site. After tax, it would be 276.36 for the set which is a bit steep for my wallet.

datsunrobbie

Slightly less ridiculous (but still utterly ridiculous) theory is that LEPIN is a well-hidden subsidiary of Disney. Lego is valued around $8Billion, Disney is around $90Billion. Disney could undercut Lego, crush the profits and force a buyout to save the company. A heavier grade of tinfoil hat would even lead to Disney suing Lego for failing to protect Disney's IP from the evil LEPIN. 


Utterly and completely insane theories, but it would help explain why there has been no report at all that Disney, who defend their IP against mom-and-pop bakers, has taken legal action against LEPIN for copyright infringement. 

CaptainPirateMan

No matter who Lepin "is", one thing must be true, they are being financed by someone with some decent money. The way they can knock out sets (produce) rivals Lego themesleves. So some sort of shady backer would not surprise me, by shady I mean a legit source.

ACWWGal2011

CaptainPirateMan said:

No matter who Lepin "is", one thing must be true, they are being financed by someone with some decent money. The way they can knock out sets (produce) rivals Lego themesleves. So some sort of shady backer would not surprise me, by shady I mean a legit source.

I doubt Lego is in danger. There's way to many people out there Loyal to Lego branded stuff.

Switchfoot55

Admittedly, I was on the cusp of trying out a few Lepin sets several months ago just to see what the quality was like. I put together a list of all of the modulars and found the absolute lowest priced sellers. But, my mind changed somewhere along the lines and I ended up deciding to not make any purchases. 

After seeing this new Ninjago set hit the Lepin market, I thought I'd take a peek to see what things were selling for now, seven months later. 

I can confirm that, in all but one modular set, prices for Lepin sets have increased on average by 18% (a low of 10% and a high of 30%). Assembly Square came onto the scene at the $150 range. Obviously the market is appreciating for these sets, despite what several comments in this thread would suggest. 

I'm not really saying all this for or against Lepin. Just an interesting observation I made. To be honest, if the quality is as good as most say it is, then I can see it quite easy for them to start to justify the price increases. I'm sure it's only a matter of time until another "Lepin" comes in and undercuts their profits, but the cycle will only continue. 

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

datsunrobbie said:

Slightly less ridiculous (but still utterly ridiculous) theory is that LEPIN is a well-hidden subsidiary of Disney. Lego is valued around $8Billion, Disney is around $90Billion. Disney could undercut Lego, crush the profits and force a buyout to save the company. A heavier grade of tinfoil hat would even lead to Disney suing Lego for failing to protect Disney's IP from the evil LEPIN. 


Utterly and completely insane theories, but it would help explain why there has been no report at all that Disney, who defend their IP against mom-and-pop bakers, has taken legal action against LEPIN for copyright infringement. 

Now THIS is a tasty conspiracy (and one I don't think I've heard before)!  And, if you've REALLY delved into some of the genuinely shady shit that Disney has been involved in over the last 60 years (their land purchasing, no fly zones and handling of park accidents come immediately to mind) then it's a quite believable conspiracy...

Lyichir

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA said:

datsunrobbie said:

Slightly less ridiculous (but still utterly ridiculous) theory is that LEPIN is a well-hidden subsidiary of Disney. Lego is valued around $8Billion, Disney is around $90Billion. Disney could undercut Lego, crush the profits and force a buyout to save the company. A heavier grade of tinfoil hat would even lead to Disney suing Lego for failing to protect Disney's IP from the evil LEPIN. 


Utterly and completely insane theories, but it would help explain why there has been no report at all that Disney, who defend their IP against mom-and-pop bakers, has taken legal action against LEPIN for copyright infringement. 

Now THIS is a tasty conspiracy (and one I don't think I've heard before)!  And, if you've REALLY delved into some of the genuinely shady shit that Disney has been involved in over the last 60 years (their land purchasing, no fly zones and handling of park accidents come immediately to mind) then it's a quite believable conspiracy...

I would like to point out that just because Disney hasn't taken legal action doesn't mean they're not preparing a case. That kind of thing takes a lot of time, even moreso in a country that doesn't have the best track record of protecting the IP rights of foreign businesses. It's not as simple as sending a small business in America or Europe a cease and desist notice and expecting them to follow through without resisting or contesting it. Disney's rapid action in those sorts of cases is not because they are more of a threat than competition from larger foreign bootlegging organizations, but because they are easier targets.

Even Lego is, as far as I'm aware, still in the process of preparing its case against Lepin, and their products are the ones being more directly infringed. I think it's a little premature to assume that Disney's lack of publicly visible action is an indication of complacency or permissiveness.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

OBVIOUSLY it's only a conspiracy theory - my comment was probably more directed at those who think Disney to be some sort of paragon of respectability and fair play.  Disneys history is littered with examples of morally bankrupt and outright illegal activity (where they generally lobby hard enough to get laws changed before any action).  They have soiled the law itself as far as copyright, labour, liability and property law goes!
  I still think one of the main reasons the Star Wars sale went through was that Disney was the only real life company evil enough to embody the Dark lords interests.

nhyone

Lyichir said:
As always, they don't need to have any sort of special access to create a fake box. That's all it is—not even a real box, but a picture of a box, with the promise of a counterfeit product being produced once the genuine set is actually released.

Some of Lepin's recent sets were released 2-3 weeks after the official sets were scheduled to release. This includes the Saturn V set.

Take it what you will.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA

^ Is the build exactly the same?  I say this because I believe it would be impossible to reverse engineer the SV from pics of the set.  HOWEVER.  You can build ANYTHING if you the instructions to do so...

nhyone

Switchfoot55 said:

Assembly Square came onto the scene at the $150 range. Obviously the market is appreciating for these sets, despite what several comments in this thread would suggest. 
 

The Assembly Square is available on TaoBao for ~US$85, excluding International shipping.

For US$16 more, you can even opt for the B version with lighting. AFAIK, the lighting set is not sold separately.

Lepin is slowly introducing B versions of their Modular Buildings with lighting, correct parts and numbered bags.

It will be interesting when they redo Cafe Corner.

TLG is fighting back by shutting down pro-Lepin discussion sites. :-) If people don't find out about it, they won't be able to buy it.

pharmjod

I don't personally have a problem with LEGO trying to protect their business at all, but I wonder how they are legally able to shut down a site that just discusses lepin? 

Bumblepants

I dunno about Lego and Lepin being the same company but they totally faked the moon landing with the recent NASA set! Those booster rockets don't work at all! Frauds!!!

Lyichir

Bumblepants said:

I dunno about Lego and Lepin being the same company but they totally faked the moon landing with the recent NASA set! Those booster rockets don't work at all! Frauds!!!

I hear they didn't even use real astronauts—just miniatures.

CCC

Ah, but the women controlling the mission are real minifigs.

iso3200

Team Brickset at the Lepin Fishing Store launch ;-p

Bobflip

Switchfoot55 said:

Admittedly, I was on the cusp of trying out a few Lepin sets several months ago just to see what the quality was like. I put together a list of all of the modulars and found the absolute lowest priced sellers. But, my mind changed somewhere along the lines and I ended up deciding to not make any purchases. 

After seeing this new Ninjago set hit the Lepin market, I thought I'd take a peek to see what things were selling for now, seven months later. 

I can confirm that, in all but one modular set, prices for Lepin sets have increased on average by 18% (a low of 10% and a high of 30%). Assembly Square came onto the scene at the $150 range. Obviously the market is appreciating for these sets, despite what several comments in this thread would suggest. 

I'm not really saying all this for or against Lepin. Just an interesting observation I made. To be honest, if the quality is as good as most say it is, then I can see it quite easy for them to start to justify the price increases. I'm sure it's only a matter of time until another "Lepin" comes in and undercuts their profits, but the cycle will only continue. 

Is that aftermarket or new prices in China or the end price in foreign countries? Increases can happen for a number of reasons, but as Lepin are taking advantage of Lego's enforced scarcity, they'll probably keep making the sets for as long as they're profitable. For current sets, they can't increase the price too much, because then they'll lose the edge of being cheaper.

stlux

They couldn't even be bothered photoshopping the box of #21310 Old Fishing Store and misspell "Ideas"?! I guess their target audience doesn't care.

After seeing a L*pin rip-off of #4000007 Ole Kirk's House, nothing surprises me anymore. You care enough about Lego that you want to build the house of TLG's founder, but by paying a Chinese rip-off company?!

ACWWGal2011

Bobflip said:

Switchfoot55 said:

Admittedly, I was on the cusp of trying out a few Lepin sets several months ago just to see what the quality was like. I put together a list of all of the modulars and found the absolute lowest priced sellers. But, my mind changed somewhere along the lines and I ended up deciding to not make any purchases. 

After seeing this new Ninjago set hit the Lepin market, I thought I'd take a peek to see what things were selling for now, seven months later. 

I can confirm that, in all but one modular set, prices for Lepin sets have increased on average by 18% (a low of 10% and a high of 30%). Assembly Square came onto the scene at the $150 range. Obviously the market is appreciating for these sets, despite what several comments in this thread would suggest. 

I'm not really saying all this for or against Lepin. Just an interesting observation I made. To be honest, if the quality is as good as most say it is, then I can see it quite easy for them to start to justify the price increases. I'm sure it's only a matter of time until another "Lepin" comes in and undercuts their profits, but the cycle will only continue. 

Is that aftermarket or new prices in China or the end price in foreign countries? Increases can happen for a number of reasons, but as Lepin are taking advantage of Lego's enforced scarcity, they'll probably keep making the sets for as long as they're profitable. For current sets, they can't increase the price too much, because then they'll lose the edge of being cheaper.

New prices. I'm pretty darn sure prices on some stuff over on AliExpress is starting to show up at slightly higher prices then b4. Aftermarket? I really have no clue since I've heard people on facebook selling stuff but i don't know what they sold it for

CCC

iso3200 said:

Team Brickset at the Lepin Fishing Store launch ;-p

Huw owns Lepin :-)

Switchfoot55

^^Correct, the prices I was referring to were AliExpress prices.

datsunrobbie

iso3200 said:

Team Brickset at the Lepin Fishing Store launch ;-p

LEPIN photo apparently stolen from brickfanatics article
 
http://www.brickfanatics.co.uk/the-lego-group-unveil-lego-ideas-21310-old-fishing-store/

nkx1

AndyPol said:

I've e-mailed the link to LEGO and they have got back to me already and said thank you.

Why bother? Everyone and their mother knows at this point that Lepin copies Lego sets. It would seem an exercise in futility to waste your finite time on earth emailing Lego about something they already know.

On a different avenue, I never really considered conspiracy theories regarding Lepin. As some others have pointed out, the speed at which Lepin produces sets, as well as the breadth of current and retired copied sets that are offered, is pretty astounding. It seems hard to believe that any company could do this without some fairly deep pockets funding their operation. To think that there is a chance this funding originates from a familiar source is intriguing!

Based on what I've seen, it seems like the molding points (or whatever those are called) on individual Lepin pieces are different than those on Lego pieces, which leads me to believe that they are not likely produced at a facility that also makes Lego pieces. Also, the clutch power and overall quality seems to be very slightly less than Lego.

Recce

China is good at this, copying manufacturing plants wholesale. 

You can setup a big industrial region in China and then overnight they will duplicate an exact version of the whole region right next to yours producing the same products.

Given how fast Lepin is able to produce all the Lego sets I'm not surprised the government may have a hand in it. 

Suing Lepin is useless, they can just drop the brand name and change it to Lepon or something and with the exact same manufacturing plants start producing the sets again. 

What TLG CAN do is to be more competitive in  terms of price and, as what they're doing now, produce more sets that use new patent protected part designs. This way they have the legal rights to sue whoever uses the new parts. This is the main reason why we're seeing new sets deviating further and further away from using standard bricks. The upcoming Ninjago City set is a good example. 

Sets build with legal bricks (i.e. expired patents) are technically legal to manufacture by any company. 

nkx1

Recce said:

Suing Lepin is useless, they can just drop the brand name and change it to Lepon or something and with the exact same manufacturing plants start producing the sets again. 

What TLG CAN do is to be more competitive in  terms of price and, as what they're doing now, produce more sets that use new patent protected part designs. This way they have the legal rights to sue whoever uses the new parts.

I absolutely agree with the first paragraph above, and I've stated pretty much the same thing a couple of times previously.

The second part of your post sort of contradicts the first, though. If a Chinese company can and does copy any part, what good does it do to have it patent-protected? It will still be copied without consequence!

monkeyhanger

^ I was about to type the same thing. It's not just the bricks or instructions being copied either, there is IP infringement with the likes of Star Wars and Marvel - surprised Disney hasn't been doing more on that front...yet.

CCC

Recce said:

Sets build with legal bricks (i.e. expired patents) are technically legal to manufacture by any company. 

Isn't that what the case is likely to be about - copying specific sets rather than parts.

Recce said:

What TLG CAN do is to be more competitive in  terms of price

So you are suggesting that they drop prices to combat the fakes? What about the costs of product design, advertising, national and international regulations and so on?

andhe

I'm confused. Is that Lepin Fishing store for 'real'. I assumed it was iso playing a photoshop joke...

CCC

I don't know. This one ... (sorry, long link) ... just uses the images nicked directly from Lego's website.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lepin-16050-Old-Fishing-Store-building-bricks-blocks-Toys-for-children-boys-Game-Model-Gift-Compatible/32818188947.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.xNYjXg&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_10192_10190_10301_10136_10137_10303_10060_10155_5220020_10062_437_10154_10056_5210020_10055_10054_10059_303_5290020_9914_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_5340020_5280011_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_5260020_5270020_5320020_10110_10111_519_10112_10113_10114_10179_10182_10184_10078_10079_5350020_5240020_5230020_10073_10123_10120_5250020_10189_142-9914,searchweb201603_9,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=73795568-8f1b-4c86-8646-44a6af623d8e&algo_expid=5dd0429f-325b-4711-9ff0-97c69a42af6b-0&algo_pvid=5dd0429f-325b-4711-9ff0-97c69a42af6b