LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

stlux

(I'm of course happy to be proven wrong)

Legopassion8

Sigh. If our predecessors(USA) had saw this coming I think the Korean War would've went a little differently... 

Not just in regards to Lego but everything. 

Johnyk668

@MAGNINOMINISUMBRA and @VorpalRyu I was thinking the same, whilst LEGO may find going after Lepin a long and costly endeavour in the Chinese courts, going after the designer in more local courtrooms may get a quicker resolution and easier to pressure the designers to stop seing there is financial gain.

VorpalRyu

Johnyk668 said:

@MAGNINOMINISUMBRA and @VorpalRyu I was thinking the same, whilst LEGO may find going after Lepin a long and costly endeavour in the Chinese courts, going after the designer in more local courtrooms may get a quicker resolution and easier to pressure the designers to stop seing there is financial gain.

Not just Lego....Ford, Bugatti, 20th Century Fox, Mattel (apparently they have been licensed to make Aliens toys), etc.

mustang69

I think it's pretty crappy for Lepin to steal AFOL's MOCs but if its something that LEGO has passed on making or has already said that license is off limits for Ideas submissions then I dont necessarily see a problem with AFOLs giving the rights to another company.

stlux

@mustang69 Those designers are not the IP owners of Aliens, Akira, Laputa, Ford etc, so they don't have any "rights" to give away. They are not entitled to make a commercial product of those creations.

So as Xingbao doesn't seem to have obtained any license to those IP's, they have now lowered themselves to the same level as Lepin.

datsunrobbie

@stlux That's part of why I expressed concern for the designers. Xingbao may have worded their contracts in such a way that they are licensing the designer's creation, leaving the designer hanging in the wind when the true owner of the IP comes looking to file a lawsuit. Or maybe they will use a disclaimer like I have seen on custom minifigure sites:

Disclaimer: Please be aware that this product was created using custom designed artwork inspired by popular characters and is in no way affiliated or associated with copyrighted and trademarked products or brands.

Why is it okay for these custom minifigure sites to infringe on IP rights, but not okay for Lepin and Xingbao to do exactly the same thing?

dragonhawk

datsunrobbie said:

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me the designers are really exposing themselves personally to litigation if the IP rights are not handled properly. If they get all the legalities worked out, this looks like a great thing for the designers and consumers.

It would be interesting to hear from the designers how the IP licensing is being handled, both for instructions they were selling as individuals and as part of the agreement they made with Xingbao. Ford or Disney could squish a few designers into poverty with minimal effort compared to the expense of suing a large corporation.

This. Why risk the money required to defend themselves for a few bucks from Xingbao?  Lepin never cared about the designers of sets they sold, why would Xingbao be any different ??

Also, legality aside, why would anyone put their names on vastly inferior products?  I understand if they design for Mega brand (whatever they called themselves), at least their bricks hold together ok.  Whatever Lepin produced is crap compared to any other brand 

mustang69

stlux said:

@mustang69 Those designers are not the IP owners of Aliens, Akira, Laputa, Ford etc, so they don't have any "rights" to give away. They are not entitled to make a commercial product of those creations.

So as Xingbao doesn't seem to have obtained any license to those IP's, they have now lowered themselves to the same level as Lepin.

I totally get that, the AFOL cant give Lepin the rights to produce something they themselves dont have the rights to. I guess I was just being thick when I said that and not really thinking. But for MOCs that are not part of a licensed product, my view still stands. If TLG doesnt want to produce it then I dont see a problem with AFOLs agreeing to a deal with Lepin.

pharmjod

@dragonhawk I assume you've neither handled LEPIN nor read reviews from people that have. By nearly all accounts I've seen, LEPIN is about on par with LEGO in terms of actual product quality. Most indicating that LEPIN is superior in quality to mega blocks. Not defending them on any other charges, but I think we are well past them being crap quality just because it is LEPIN.

dragonhawk

pharmjod said:

@dragonhawk I assume you've neither handled LEPIN nor read reviews from people that have. By nearly all accounts I've seen, LEPIN is about on par with LEGO in terms of actual product quality. Most indicating that LEPIN is superior in quality to mega blocks. Not defending them on any other charges, but I think we are well past them being crap quality just because it is LEPIN.

Well then LEGO is doomed :(

datsunrobbie

dragonhawk said:

pharmjod said:

@dragonhawk I assume you've neither handled LEPIN nor read reviews from people that have. By nearly all accounts I've seen, LEPIN is about on par with LEGO in terms of actual product quality. Most indicating that LEPIN is superior in quality to mega blocks. Not defending them on any other charges, but I think we are well past them being crap quality just because it is LEPIN.

Well then LEGO is doomed :(

Far from it. LEGO is still the biggest toy manufacturer on the planet, and the competitors have a long way to go before LEGO will be in any real danger. But they certainly cannot just sit back and rest on their laurels.

I recently bought some sets made by iifun (they make all sorts of cheap toys found in Target, Walmart, etc), fully expecting to keep the "egg" packaging they came in and toss the bricks, but I ended up keeping them because the quality of the parts was as good as any LEGO I own, and better than some of it. There were a bunch of part #4085 in those knock-off sets, and none of them broke, and none of the cheese slopes have cracked. Meanwhile I've got a bunch of genuine #4085s that snapped, and stories of cracked cheese slopes are all over the forum. LEGO customer service is apparently top-notch, and would replace the broken parts if I asked them. The iifun sets might disintegrate in a week or two, at which point I'll report back about it.

SumoLego

dragonhawk said:
Well then LEGO is doomed :(

Recce

Creating models like Alien and Akira bike etc indeed pose a complicated licensing situation which TLG definitely excels at solving, unlike companies such as XingBao.

I foresee in the future XingBao may have more and more models from designers based on original MOCs such as below upcoming one that does not need any licenses.

stlux

Nice set. Wouldn't buy it myself as I collect Lego only, but nice.
Apart from the minifigs I have no issue with such sets. They really need to come up with their own minifig design though if they really want to be 100% above board. There might also still be issues with some of the bricks.

But at least their logo doesn't seem to try to create confusion about being original Lego. (disclaimer: as a non-native of China, it's difficult for me to see what might/might not look similar to TLG's logo in that region)

pharmjod

Recce said:

Creating models like Alien and Akira bike etc indeed pose a complicated licensing situation which TLG definitely excels at solving, unlike companies such as XingBao.

I foresee in the future XingBao may have more and more models from designers based on original MOCs such as below upcoming one that does not need any licenses.

That is a really beautiful set. I'd be tempted to buy it just for the instructions to try to reproduce it in LEGO.

BooTheMightyHamster

Maybe Lego should just rip the design off and produce their own as part of the modulars range.
I mean, it's not like Xingbao / Lepin have any issue with people copying stuff wholesale, right?

Russell844

pharmjod said:

Recce said:

Creating models like Alien and Akira bike etc indeed pose a complicated licensing situation which TLG definitely excels at solving, unlike companies such as XingBao.

I foresee in the future XingBao may have more and more models from designers based on original MOCs such as below upcoming one that does not need any licenses.

That is a really beautiful set. I'd be tempted to buy it just for the instructions to try to reproduce it in LEGO.

I thought the same thing. It's $83 on AliExpress.

graphite

Saw these guys in Hong Kong this weekend.

Aanchir

Wh… why do they all have faces that fold open with weird robot faces underneath? o_O

VorpalRyu

Because they're not real Brickheadz, they're Ultron's robot copies of them... lol

Seriously, I think it's because some of them were originally based on Seb's Blockhead figures (the Ant-Man one from what I can see is a rip off of Seb's).

bandit778

Aanchir said:

Wh… why do they all have faces that fold open with weird robot faces underneath? o_O

They are the Westworld versions where everything can be fake. ;)

Legopassion8

 Five Nights at Freddie's Editions

(Still crying bout the Chinese?)

SumoLego

I like the pseudo SDCC logo-ish thing in the top right corner.  Just to cover all of the bases.

FowlerBricks

CCC said:

I have no words for this one ...

WHAT!?!?!?! They really put him in the Super Heroes theme? WHAT.THE.HECK.

FowlerBricks

CCC said:

These things still top the chart for worst clones ever for me ... what were they thinking?

Oh gosh. That's bad. That's worse than bad...that's...disgusting.

FowlerBricks

If you need a good laugh, Lepin is there to lighten your day...or maybe ruin it by making you puke your guts out.

dougts

FowlerBricks said:

If you need a good laugh, Lepin is there to lighten your day...or maybe ruin it by making you puke your guts out.

Glancing at my Lepin UCS Falcon causes me to disagree with you on this one. Getting to build and display this model was a real joy.  And not a single person who has admired it knows or cares that it isn't authentic LEGO

tnat said, i have no plans to purchase any more Lepin sets, and I will be on line to buy the rumored new Falcon when it's released

Boomstick

I bought the Imperial warship and it is impressive. Saved $1200 so don't regret it.  I also bought my daughter the Black Pearl and she likes it. Probably won't buy anything else though.

Jackad7

^ and this marked the beginning of the death of TLG

blade_guy

@FowlerBricks @CCC Look what I just bought in the Ukraine... 

SumoLego

So weird.  Why are they Go-Botish?

pharmjod

Go Bots was exactly what I was thinking

blade_guy

Translation is "Miracle Machines"...

blade_guy

Apparently it's a Nickelodeon show - Blaze and the Monster Machines.

SumoLego

pharmjod said:

Go Bots was exactly what I was thinking

Funny, I was thinking I missed my calling to be a pharmacist.

(And imagine a Go-Bot meme.)

Lyichir

blade_guy said:

@FowlerBricks @CCC Look what I just bought in the Ukraine... \

I love how the figure looks absolutely nothing like the character on the box. Even the eyes are Cars-style windscreen eyes rather than the headlight eyes of the character.

BOBJACK_JACKBOB

WHAT!?!?!?! They really put him in the Super Heroes theme? WHAT.THE.HECK.

Isn't that where most of the other meglomaniac super villains are?

CCC

pharmjod said:

Go Bots was exactly what I was thinking

The "bot" is definitely the correct word here, where else is there to shove your gun? (British "bottom" = American "fanny").

FowlerBricks

blade_guy said:

@FowlerBricks @CCC Look what I just bought in the Ukraine... 

WHAT IS THAT!?!?! TAKE IT AWAY!! ;).

FowlerBricks

dougts said:

FowlerBricks said:

If you need a good laugh, Lepin is there to lighten your day...or maybe ruin it by making you puke your guts out.

Glancing at my Lepin UCS Falcon causes me to disagree with you on this one. Getting to build and display this model was a real joy.  And not a single person who has admired it knows or cares that it isn't authentic LEGO

that said, I have no plans to purchase any more Lepin sets, and I will be on line to buy the rumored new Falcon when it's released

Yes, I could understand maybe buying a huge set, like say...the Super Star Destroyer but other than that...well, Lepin isn't and never will be Lego, no matter how hard they copy. As far as I know, Lepin hasn't come up with a single original idea.

VorpalRyu

I really don't see the point of buying Lepin knock-offs, it's like buying a kit-car of a Ferrari F430, you still don't own a Ferrari F430, just knock-off that is meant look like it.

willobee498

^ A fake Ferrari will be slow and handle miserably, but plastic bricks will click together regardless :P

dougts

VorpalRyu said:

I really don't see the point of buying Lepin knock-offs, it's like buying a kit-car of a Ferrari F430, you still don't own a Ferrari F430, just knock-off that is meant look like it.

It's pretty obvious really.  I don't *care* about whether or not I can claim to own an actual #10179. But I have an extremely accurate replica of it that fills the exact same role (display) and that I was able to enjoy the exact same building experience. It's like someone owning a print of a famous painting.  They don't claim to own the original, but they still get to enjoy all the benefits of being able to display it 

the value to me is the fact that I got to build it and get to display it, not the ego stroking provided by being able to check a box on the internet that says I own an original 

datsunrobbie

VorpalRyu said:

I really don't see the point of buying Lepin knock-offs, it's like buying a kit-car of a Ferrari F430, you still don't own a Ferrari F430, just knock-off that is meant look like it.

I think the Ferrari 308 is a beautiful car, but unless a miracle happens, I'll never own one. Meanwhile I have a Pontiac Fiero, and for a fraction of the price of the Ferrari it could be converted to a replica Ferrari, which I could then maintain myself and afford to drive.

Venunder

Having missed the first three Modular buildings from TLG I was never going to pay the stupidly expensive aftermarket price for what is essentially just a lump of organic chemicals, whoever made them.
All ABS will eventually degrade back to mostly Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen.
Although probably not in my lifetime?
 
Bricklinking the parts to recreate the sets would be almost as crazy price wise, in my view.
Although I understand the thrill of the chase that some people have had and other people will have by doing this. 

If TLG had given me an option to buy these sets as reproductions, even with updated techniques and substituted parts, I probably would have bought from TLG.

Lepin gave me the option of seeing these Modular models in their original form, except for the Lego Logo on the studs. The building experience was just as enjoyable as for my other Modulars, 

Displayed next to my TLG Lego Modulars I can only see this Logo difference when I get very close to them. The quality of the bricks seems just as good, but time, colour fading and clutch power may tell a different story?
Best of all the Lepin ones are a fraction of the price of even new TLG Modulars.

Fed Ex actually made more money on the deal shipping them to me than Lepin did.

Would I buy other Lepin models?
Maybe, if I moved to China or the sets appeared on the shelves at Tesco?
Maybe if Lepin produced something unique of their own which was well designed? 
Maybe if TLG continue to hike their RRP's to staggering levels above the cost of production?

Disney Castle?
Death Star?
etc?

ericb

dougts said:

the value to me is the fact that I got to build it and get to display it, not the ego stroking provided by being able to check a box on the internet that says I own an original 

This justification sounds as though you're stroking your own ego.

VorpalRyu

If building & displaying it are the reason, why not track down all the parts even if you need to substitute colours to keep costs down, rather than give money to a company illegally profiteering off of TLG's trademarks, copyrights & design work.

dougts

ericb said:

dougts said:

the value to me is the fact that I got to build it and get to display it, not the ego stroking provided by being able to check a box on the internet that says I own an original 

This justification sounds as though you're stroking your own ego.

Nope. Just answering a question that was asked 

dougts

VorpalRyu said:

If building & displaying it are the reason, why not track down all the parts even if you need to substitute colours to keep costs down, rather than give money to a company illegally profiteering off of TLG's trademarks, copyrights & design work.

Time