Can The Hobbit Sets Be Considered a Sales Flop for LEGO?

madforLEGO

I think you will see how 'flop-ish' this line is if LEGO has a PoTC experience and has to throw many sets on clearance for months to get rid of their stocks. Otherwise, while not gangbusters, they are probably doing OK.

Yellowcastle

^ Do you mean PoP?

madforLEGO

Yellowcastle said:

^ Do you mean PoP?

PoP is probably a better example. But, aside from the ships, PoTC sets were sitting around for a while on various sales if I remember correctly.

piratemania7

I would rate the Hobbit overall as "fair". Less pizzazz than some licensed themes but more than others - ie TLR? : )

At any rate, fun minifigs and great MOCing pieces all around especially if you are into any sort of medieval building.

legodwarf321

I'm still super worried about the LOTR and Hobbit themes. All signs point to them being discontinued after this next wave, which is a travesty because they missed so much and focused on all the wrong things. I own every set from both waves, but although it's my favorite theme, it's pretty easy for me to see why people tend to pass it up. I give a pretty good breakdown for the future of the theme in this vid
http://youtu.be/LB27ZbS3194

graphite

piratemania7 said:

I would rate the Hobbit overall as "fair". Less pizzazz than some licensed themes but more than others - ie TLR? : )

At any rate, fun minifigs and great MOCing pieces all around especially if you are into any sort of medieval building.

TLR was a flop because the movie was a flop and kids just don't do cowboys and indians anymore. The sets on the other hand were much better in my opinion than the walls we got in this last hobbit wave. I love the hobbit minifigs but the sets were blah. TLR had a well done train, well done western buildings in the Colby City set and a really well done horse drawn carriage. The TLR theme as a whole was bland because really other than the train parts the movie didn't have great scenes that lend well to sets but LEGO designers did a great job with what they had.

MommaLa

@legodwarf321 but it's a movie tie in line, don't most lines like this end when the movies end? We may not have gotten everything we want but I don't see how this line could continue without movie tie ins

Shib

I believe that The Lord of the Rings theme came after the films but before the hobbit films (please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't be bothered to look it up) so I think there might have been a chance of a long run series, much like we still get Star Wars OT sets - I know that everyone slams any attempts at comparisons to the Star Wars franchise but I do think in terms of a medieval/castle type licence that TLotR had the best chance of any film of standing up in the same way. In some ways I think the weakness of the hobbit (definately second film) might have jeopardised any chance of that.

plasmodium

Yeah. LotR was really a missed opportunity. There were a lot of small decisions which could have been made differently (many of which were pointed out in @legodwarf321‌'s movie) which could have ended up in LotR being the next Star Wars. But hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh?

PS That said, actually, it may be that Lego doesn't have room/market (or doesn't see itself as having room/market) for two massive Star Wars sized themes, and as such didn't put the same effort into LotR.

Shib

It's a real shame because, like Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings theme has such a wide appeal. It hits all age groups, including the infamously hard for Lego teen audience. Seriously if you go to any comic conventions (or similar events) you see people who clearly don't know the Lego market paying over retail on LOTR sets that are still on the shelves in shops.

I also wonder if under pressure from Marvel/Disney and DC they might be looking more at the Superheroes themes as more of a long running theme, there are always Cartoons and films of them, even if a lot of the cartoon series fly under the radar for adults it keeps the kids interested. Maybe if there is to be a second Long term IP theme it's going to be Superheroes. As much as I love the superheroes theme I'd prefer to have seen more of a shot at LOTR, it's too easy for mass focus on vehicles with Superheroes, I like buildings and scenic sets far more than vehicles.

binaryeye

legodwarf321 said:

I'm still super worried about the LOTR and Hobbit themes. All signs point to them being discontinued after this next wave, which is a travesty because they missed so much and focused on all the wrong things.

I think the time for worry has passed; it seems clear by now there will be no third wave of LOTR. There may still be a chance for exclusives, but as a general theme I think it's done.

I disagree that they focused on all the wrong things, though. Yeah, they missed some things, but they hit most of the major characters and locales.

For me, the only misses are:
FOTR: the Balrog, Lothlórien and Galadriel
TT: Edoras and Eowyn, Treebeard, Osgiliath and Faramir
ROTK: Minas Tirith and Denethor, Pelennor Fields and Eowyn vs. Witch-King

Of those, only three stand out to me as major misses as sets: the Balrog, Osgiliath, and Pelennor Fields. The others don't translate well to the type of sets LEGO generally produces. I'll admit I don't understand the complete dismissal of Gondor and, in general, much of the plot of ROTK. That aside, I think it's difficult to argue they focused on all the wrong things. To me, the only case of this is the pirate ship.

Shib said:

I believe that The Lord of the Rings theme came after the films but before the hobbit films (please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't be bothered to look it up) so I think there might have been a chance of a long run series, much like we still get Star Wars OT sets [...]

LOTR was released in the summer leading up to the release of the first Hobbit film, about 7-8 months before the first wave of The Hobbit.

Obviously this is only my opinion, but LOTR would never have come to be if it weren't for The Hobbit films. The theme was released because of the hype leading up to the return to Middle Earth. Has LEGO ever produced a licensed theme when the license is not current? That's a genuine question, not rhetorical. I don't think there was ever a chance for LOTR to be a long-running theme like Star Wars.

Shib said:

It's a real shame because, like Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings theme has such a wide appeal. It hits all age groups, including the infamously hard for Lego teen audience.

LOTR doesn't have anything close to the wide appeal of Star Wars. Especially in regard to age. LOTR is simply too violent for the five-year-olds that Star Wars can count in its demographic reach. The target markets for LEGO and Star Wars almost perfectly overlap, whereas LOTR's market generally begins where LEGO's is starting to fall off.

piratemania7

I never got into LoTR so it's hard for me to comment on that. But I think the overarching idea that anything licensed and tied to a movie or movie series sort of go hand in hand would make sense. I think the appeal of the movies as a whole and to which group or groups of people make a huge impact on overall sales.

It would be nice to really have seen more substance to the Hobbit sets though. For me it's great that there seemed to be a lot of focus on the minifigures but for those looking for true replications of scenes from the movies I can understand how it is somewhat disappointing.

Shib

binaryeye said:

LOTR doesn't have anything close to the wide appeal of Star Wars. Especially in regard to age. LOTR is simply too violent for the five-year-olds that Star Wars can count in its demographic reach. The target markets for LEGO and Star Wars almost perfectly overlap, whereas LOTR's market generally begins where LEGO's is starting to fall off.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I don't see how seeing Darth Maul get chopped in half is any less violent than Boromir getting shot by multiple arrows. One thing I will give you is that LOTR shows more blood, which I know a lot of parents and censors have a massive problem with, which is something I've never understood. IMO the showing of blood shows the consequence of violence, so as long as it isn't just blood for the sake of mass gore I've always though that showing blood is better than the ridiculous notion of not showing that weapons hurt people.
I've seen kids as young as five play LOTR games, just like they play star wars games, harry potter games or whatever else is currently being advertised everywhere games.

I still think the point about the LOTR theme being apart from the film stands, I'm sure I was aware of the LOTR Lego theme before I was really aware of the Hobbit films. Admittedly they might have only given it a second wave because of the Hobbit films but I thought the second wave of LOTR was pretty weak compared to the first. If you take out Orthanc (being exclusive and high cost) Then what was left;

-Wizards Duel - Fine for the price point, but being a small build a lot of AFOL/TFOL will probably have largely overlooked it (especially seeing as its a small part of Orthanc so overshadowed by the larger set)

-Council of Elrond - Poor representation of a low action point of the film. Included Arwen despite the fact she wasn't there in the film. Gimli and Frodo stand in the chairs and don't sit in them so IMO Elrond was the only Minifig in that set that really made sense. Then look at all the characters who were at the meeting and weren't in the set. I think if they'd put Boromir in instead of Gimli it would have sold better seeing as Boromir remains exclusive to Mines of Moria.

-Battle at the Black Gate - Scene from the extended version which a lot of people won't have seen. looks quite nice on it's own but as soon as you put it next to any other LOTR/Hobbit set in the same price range it just looks a very unimpressive scale. I think they'd have been better going for a bit more height and a bit less width, especially as the instructions suggest you buy a second a stick them together.

-Pirate Ship Ambush - For me this was the highlight of the second wave. It might have been nice to have a second pirate but otherwise and it was a relatively small part of the film, but it's design, exclusive minifigs and playability make up for that.

I think my biggest hand up on this wave was the council of Elrond, I get why they chose it but I would have exchanged it for a similar sized set based either on the halls of Edoras (could have been either Theoden under worm tongues control or The party scene with Eowen), Denator's throne room/Minas Tirith Courtyard (to include a Gondor armour Pipin), Pelanor Field (Witch King vs Eowen/Merry), The Forbidden Pool or Lothlorian

I'm going to carry on hoping for a third wave, i think there is still so much they could draw from. It'd be particularly nice to have a Black Tower with an all seeing eye to go with Orthanc.

Sorry for massive rant but I loved the first wave LOTR so I'm very opinionated on it.

binaryeye

Shib said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, I don't see how seeing Darth Maul get chopped in half is any less violent than Boromir getting shot by multiple arrows.

Sorry, I should have written graphically violent. The violence in Star Wars is more abstracted.

It's been 15 years since I've seen TPM, but I believe Darth Maul looks surprised, falls backward, his body separates, and the halves fall into a pit. The whole sequence takes less than ten seconds. Boromir's death is a much more drawn-out affair. It's made clear that he's going to be shot, then he's shot several times (with arrows protruding from his back), and he's in obvious pain. And most of that is in slow motion. Which scene is more likely to affect a young child?

Beyond that, there are simply more intensely violent and disturbing scenes in LOTR. Even outside of the prevalent combat, there are things like the choking scene at the beginning of ROTK, dismembered heads catapulted into Minas Tirith, and Denethor setting himself and his son on fire and later jumping off a cliff. As dark as Star Wars can be in places (e.g. Lars homestead skeletons, Vader beheading in the cave, Han's torture), the presentation pales in comparison.

madforLEGO

Shib said:

I believe that The Lord of the Rings theme came after the films but before the hobbit films (please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't be bothered to look it up) so I think there might have been a chance of a long run series, much like we still get Star Wars OT sets - I know that everyone slams any attempts at comparisons to the Star Wars franchise but I do think in terms of a medieval/castle type licence that TLotR had the best chance of any film of standing up in the same way. In some ways I think the weakness of the hobbit (definately second film) might have jeopardised any chance of that.

You are right, but those sets were made because of the association to the Hobbit Movie that was released plus the LoTR Video game as well. If I am not mistaken I think the last Potter run was also due to the HP2 video game being released more than HP and deathly hallows movie.

Shib

binaryeye said:

It's been 15 years since I've seen TPM, but I believe Darth Maul looks surprised, falls backward, his body separates, and the halves fall into a pit. The whole sequence takes less than ten seconds. Boromir's death is a much more drawn-out affair. It's made clear that he's going to be shot, then he's shot several times (with arrows protruding from his back), and he's in obvious pain. And most of that is in slow motion. Which scene is more likely to affect a young child?

Beyond that, there are simply more intensely violent and disturbing scenes in LOTR. Even outside of the prevalent combat, there are things like the choking scene at the beginning of ROTK, dismembered heads catapulted into Minas Tirith, and Denethor setting himself and his son on fire and later jumping off a cliff. As dark as Star Wars can be in places (e.g. Lars homestead skeletons, Vader beheading in the cave, Han's torture), the presentation pales in comparison.

How about anakin on fire and with dismembered limbs? I agree there is more what would be considered graphic violence in LOTR but i think that you also have to remember the context of time of release as well. I can see SW OT DVDs on my shelf with a U rating and one of the extended LOTR with a 12 rating, if they were made at the same time I'm sure that LOTR would have a higher age rating but these are regularly relaxed. Or if the SW OT was being made for the first time now we would likely see a bit more of what would be considered graphic violence.

Just to clarify as well I'd say that LOTR is the one of few licence theme in a fantasy setting so far that MIGHT have had the potential to have a long run to rival SW. As it is I thing the only license theme we can expect to see continue long run is the Superheroes theme, which I see as slightly similar to the SW theme in that they are both Sci-Fi genre and heavily based on vehicles.

BrickDancer

^Add to the fact that Lego did release a charred & mutilated Anakin (the most violent scene in all 6 Episodes) and it makes it even more blatantly hypocritical.

And for capacity for a long running series, LotR/Hobbit never had a chance due to the low amount of characters, not locations or vehicles. Which IMO is the main appeal and strength of the SW and SH lines. An endless roster of main, secondary and ancillary characters to plumb from. Heck just look at how many figs have been released for SH so far (>100) in a short period of time. And hasn't even come close to finishing off the rosters for Marvel or DC.

tamamahm

Shib said:

It's a real shame because, like Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings theme has such a wide appeal. It hits all age groups, including the infamously hard for Lego teen audience. Seriously if you go to any comic conventions (or similar events) you see people who clearly don't know the Lego market paying over retail on LOTR sets that are still on the shelves in shops.

Interesting. I disagree that the theme hits all age groups.

Ask a preschool through 2nd grader about Star Wars and you will get an earful. Lots of Star Wars games were played on the playground in Prek and Kindergarden with multiple of my kids.

Ask a preschool through 2nd grader about Lord of the Rings... Watch the difference. I would say at least 50% would be clueless. I can not name a single instance from prek-5th grade that I have seen kids playing LOTR games at recess.

Star Wars, Ninjago, Hunger Games were quite popular by us.
Harry Potter and Doctor Who get far more mention than LOTR. Now that may be regional, but there is just so little mention of LOTR or the Hobbit in that age set.

Now, high school, I could see it playing well to that age group. Adults, I could see it doing well in, but as someone else mentioned the sets really needed to be grand to encompass the novels.
Gender groups...they completely ignored a single female minifig in the first wave.

Really, overall, I felt the implementation of this theme and perhaps the theme in general, did Fairly lousy job of hitting all age groups.

Shib

To be fair the roster for DC and Marvel is constantly changing as well so TLG could bring out a new set every month and never catch up. I'm glad that the DC line is extending to more than Batman but there's still a lot more for them to do! :-)

legodwarf321

I would have to say that too many of the sets inLOTR were made for LOTR fans. If they had first focused on making sets with a wider appeal then they could have had room for the fan sets later (like they did with star wars expanded universe), because the fan would buy the sets no matter what. All they had to do was follow the formula they set up with Star Wars (and used in all of their other lisenced themes, I mean come on even the Lone Ranger got a battle pack) back in 2001 and would have had an extreme top seller. They pretty much ignored this formula with LOTR. Seriously, what FOL wouldn't buy a battle pack of ghost knights?

legodwarf321

For instance, I'm not a Star Wars fan, but i still buy Star Wars sets because they designed the sets to appeal to all FOL's. They didn't really do that with LOTR. But they still have the license so they still have a chance to correct that mistake.

Redbullgivesuwind

I think that there are two reasons for the lack of success of the Hobbit and LotR sets and it's potential end after the final film:

1. As stated by @tamamahm‌ and @binaryeye‌ It's clear lack of support in Lego target demographic of children. While lego has made moves to be more inclusive of TFOL and AFOL. We make up a much smaller percentage of sales for lego. While a line maybe a hit with us. The amount of money that we spend on sets is still a lot smaller than the number of sets lego sell to children. This is not helped by the lack of popularity for the LotR films over Star Wars. This is for two reasons. The first I think is the tone of the films rather than the violence. Aside from the third film the Star Wars brand is marketed as, and seen by parents, as child friendly. The films are mostly rated U and often appear on TV during the middle of the day. Whereas the LotR films are seen as a much darker tone, they are rated PG13/12. The atmosphere is much more gritty grim and realistic. This tends to put parents of younger children off and will influence their film choices.

Secondly, Star Wars is very effective at ensuring it markets itself and stays in the consciousness of children. The success of The Clone Wars and the release of Rebels both on popular children's channels in the prime time Saturday Morning slot means that it is the make believe that children want to play in the playground. This is an area that LotR and the Hobbit are unable to penetrate due to the restriction of the books. So it means that when sets are released there is less demand for these if they are not the in thing for children.
The Star Wars line is able to produce key sets at, to an extend affordable prices. It is also able to simply rehash old sets such as the X-Wing as these will always sell well. However there are only so many ways you can do the LotR sets. Items such as the new Fighter line and the battle packs (done because children love to have armies of things) are well within poker money reach and sell well because of this.

Which leads me on to point 2. The LotR scenes and size also often mean that if you want to recreate something you either have to scale back on what you are given (The Black Gate) or if you want the City of Gondor then except that the price will move that out of children's hands. Yes to get Gondor would be amazing but to get anything impressive it becomes £150+ set. So the market is decreased to AFOL and a few TFOL. The other way then is to scale back on the sets to lower the price point. This leads you to something that looks like the Black Gate. A set which, although cheap, doesn't appeal to children who don't know what it is and is hated by adults as shown by some of the above posts. Whereas you look at the City or Star Wars sets these are small to middle range sets which are made cheaply and will be affordable, and desirable to children. Something that I don't believe LotR could achieve.

Plus it doesn't help that Peter Jackson appears to have gotten rather carried away and ruined the Hobbit films.

legodwarf321

Redbullgivesuwind said:

IThe LotR scenes and size also often mean that if you want to recreate something you either have to scale back on what you are given (The Black Gate) .

@Redbullgivesuwind‌ I agree with you here, but the best way to solve this problem would be to make smaller sets that can combine together to make larger sets. This seemed to be the way they were going with Helms deep an the Uruk-hai army sets, but they didn't keep it up. Worst is that these seem like common sense decisions to make, but they don't seem to be making them.

CCC

tamamahm said:

Shib said:

It's a real shame because, like Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings theme has such a wide appeal. It hits all age groups, including the infamously hard for Lego teen audience. Seriously if you go to any comic conventions (or similar events) you see people who clearly don't know the Lego market paying over retail on LOTR sets that are still on the shelves in shops.

Interesting. I disagree that the theme hits all age groups.

Ask a preschool through 2nd grader about Star Wars and you will get an earful. Lots of Star Wars games were played on the playground in Prek and Kindergarden with multiple of my kids.

Ask a preschool through 2nd grader about Lord of the Rings... Watch the difference. I would say at least 50% would be clueless. I can not name a single instance from prek-5th grade that I have seen kids playing LOTR games at recess.

Star Wars, Ninjago, Hunger Games were quite popular by us.
Harry Potter and Doctor Who get far more mention than LOTR. Now that may be regional, but there is just so little mention of LOTR or the Hobbit in that age set.

Maybe lego need to bring out The Hobbit duplo. Bilbo, Gollum, Gandalf. Get kids used to the characters at the age of 3. Then the regular lego sets will sell even better.

They are doing it with Batman and the Joker. Quite a bit of implied violence there, but marketable to three year olds. And no doubt many two years olds will be playing with it to, given the 3+ is for safety not for story content.

dannyrww

I don't know. Between Lord of the Rings and Hobbit I'm happy with what we got. Obviously I wish there was more, but I got all the minifigure characters I needed. Are their others I wish I had sure, but I would be more devastated if they would never have released the entire fellowship. I am happy with he sets that came out only feeling that Gondor should have been represented in some way. Orthanc was a truly amazing thing and other than Star Wars I can't imagine too many themes that would get a set of that size. And the Hobbit Hole (Unexpected gathering) is my favorite set of all time. Not really much to complain about. Maybe they could end it all with a LOTR chess set and include the missing characters there (Really all I feel needs to be made at this point is Eowyn, Faramir, and Sauron...maybe the witch king in armor....that being with the hope that we will get Galadriel in an upcoming Hobbit set)

Redbullgivesuwind

@legodwarf321‌ i would agree with that would be a good option. However as we discovered with Helms deep and more so with Black Gate it is difficult to come up with anything beyond peice of wall and generic figures set number 3. And even harder to design a way to combine them into something more spectular.

CCC

dannyrww said:

Not really much to complain about. Maybe they could end it all with a LOTR chess set and include the missing characters there (Really all I feel needs to be made at this point is Eowyn, Faramir, and Sauron...maybe the witch king in armor....that being with the hope that we will get Galadriel in an upcoming Hobbit set)

What a great idea. With Gondor soldiers and Orcs as pawns. I'd buy a few of them. The main characters would probably get repeated, but it would be a great army builder.

sonsofsceva

If they aren't going to do another LOTR wave, then I hope that they do another Orthanc sized set for Minas Tirith, which would mostly be a larger, whiter version of Helm's Deep (but with the tree on top), but then add the fell beast and all of the guys we don't have yet, most of whom are there anyway. Put in the Wolf's Head and two trolls to push it and you have a great $250 set that I would purchase.

emilewski

^ That is my hope at this point too. A last LOTR wave to finish it off with Gondor, etc seems like it is not to be at this point. So our best hope is a D2C Minas Tirith to supplement Orthanc that will give us some of what we missed. Then we can be almost complete. I will not hold my breath though.

Hardrada

A D2C Minas Tirith has even less chance than a 3rd LOTR wave imo. It would need at least a few new moulds (like Gondorian helmets) and TLG doesn't like to introduce new ones solely for D2C sets. Not enough sales on those to justify the cost.

dannyrww

CCC said:

dannyrww said:

Not really much to complain about. Maybe they could end it all with a LOTR chess set and include the missing characters there (Really all I feel needs to be made at this point is Eowyn, Faramir, and Sauron...maybe the witch king in armor....that being with the hope that we will get Galadriel in an upcoming Hobbit set)

What a great idea. With Gondor soldiers and Orcs as pawns. I'd buy a few of them. The main characters would probably get repeated, but it would be a great army builder.

I actually started putting one together on the digital creator for Cuusoo but never finished it.

CCC

I'd love them to make a series like this guy's MOCs (from eurobricks http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=99877&st=0).

Pitfall69

These are great, but then I would want Star Wars and Superheroes too :)

mathew

Shib said:

-Battle at the Black Gate - Scene from the extended version which a lot of people won't have seen. looks quite nice on it's own but as soon as you put it next to any other LOTR/Hobbit set in the same price range it just looks a very unimpressive scale. I think they'd have been better going for a bit more height and a bit less width, especially as the instructions suggest you buy a second a stick them together.

Many of the LotR sets are what I call "brick heavy". Heavy on detail and small parts but lack the size and dynamics that are necessary to capture the the scenes from the films. I don't blame the Lego designers for this. They could have either juniorized the sets and made them larger but less detailed or made them larger and charged more. As I've said before, Orthanc is universally praised but it's a $200 set. Not every set can have 2,300 pieces and cost $200..

piratemania7

Overall I believe the minifigures drive these sets - take away those and all you have are some really great, and sometimes glorified Castle MOC'ing pieces. Thats just my opinion and should be taken very lightly - but I do now regret somewhat buying all the Hobbit sets just to obtain the minifigures. Had I waited and thought it out more thoroughly I would have sourced the minifigures and bought Unexpected Gathering as one of the exception sets.

LegoFanTexas

binaryeye said:

Beyond that, there are simply more intensely violent and disturbing scenes in LOTR. Even outside of the prevalent combat, there are things like the choking scene at the beginning of ROTK, dismembered heads catapulted into Minas Tirith, and Denethor setting himself and his son on fire and later jumping off a cliff. As dark as Star Wars can be in places (e.g. Lars homestead skeletons, Vader beheading in the cave, Han's torture), the presentation pales in comparison.

^ This, times 10...

LOTR violence is just ongoing and on a scale of graphic display that Star Wars doesn't even dream of...

The large scale battles in LOTR alone are completely inappropriate for kids of any age...

Of course, I still think the rating system is completely messed up... They are rated PG-13, frankly I think they deserve an R rating... Kids under 17 shouldn't be watching them at all, IMHO...

Pitfall69

^Movie ratings are certainly messed up. The original Jaws has a rating of PG-13. The Avengers rating is PG-13, but did you know that the first couple of submissions of that movie garnered an R rating? Apparently, when Loki stabbed agent Coulson with his sceptre; it was too gruesome. Still, how is The Avengers anywhere close to the gore and violence of LOTR and Jaws?

Shib

^ "Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words!"

Pitfall69

Speaking of Jaws; that would make a great IDEAS set :)

Ok. Back on topic!!! Carry on...

mathew

LegoFanTexas said:

The large scale battles in LOTR alone are completely inappropriate for kids of any age...

Of course, I still think the rating system is completely messed up... They are rated PG-13, frankly I think they deserve an R rating... Kids under 17 shouldn't be watching them at all, IMHO...

Have you watched prime time television lately? LotR is fantasy violence. Should little kids be watching it? Probably not. But anyone over 13 would be fine in my book.

BTW the Lego game of LotR is excellent and probably the best of the series.

Ronyar

Pitfall69 said:

Speaking of Jaws; that would make a great IDEAS set :)

Pretty sure they have multiples ;) (unless you were joking, in which case you should have included this link in your post. It's already half way there!)

devilhead

Pitfall69 said:

^... The original Jaws has a rating of PG-13...

Jaws is PG, PG-13 did not exist at the time of Jaws release.

dougts

Pitfall69 said:

^Movie ratings are certainly messed up. The original Jaws has a rating of PG-13. The Avengers rating is PG-13, but did you know that the first couple of submissions of that movie garnered an R rating? Apparently, when Loki stabbed agent Coulson with his sceptre; it was too gruesome. Still, how is The Avengers anywhere close to the gore and violence of LOTR and Jaws?

Jaws actually has very little gore on the whole. A couple of scenes really is all. the rest is just masterful storytelling and a lot of dramatic buildup. The movie could never be made today - not near enough action to keep our no attention span culture engaged. And the fact that we can't and don't make movies like this anymore is really a shame.

Pitfall69

devilhead said:

Pitfall69 said:

^... The original Jaws has a rating of PG-13...

Jaws is PG, PG-13 did not exist at the time of Jaws release.

Thank you for that. I know there wasn't a PG-13 rating back then. I was born in 1971. The suggested modern rating by MPAA is PG-13. When Jaws was on TV a few weeks ago during Shark Week, my guide said PG-13.

Bumblepants

Did Hobbit sets do as well as expected or hoped? Probably not. Does every line need to sell at Star Wars or City levels to avoid flophood? Certainly not.

LegoFanTexas

mathew said:

Have you watched prime time television lately? LotR is fantasy violence. Should little kids be watching it? Probably not. But anyone over 13 would be fine in my book.

BTW the Lego game of LotR is excellent and probably the best of the series.

No, I don't watch TV anymore except for stuff on Discovery, History, and HGTV.

I probably wouldn't like most of it, to be sure...

The sad thing is, the fastest way to get an R rating is to have naked people in your movie, but I'd much rather my kids see a few naked bodies than to see all that violence.

LegoFanTexas

mathew said:

Have you watched prime time television lately? LotR is fantasy violence. Should little kids be watching it? Probably not. But anyone over 13 would be fine in my book.

BTW the Lego game of LotR is excellent and probably the best of the series.

No, I don't watch TV anymore except for stuff on Discovery, History, and HGTV.

I probably wouldn't like most of it, to be sure...

The sad thing is, the fastest way to get an R rating is to have naked people in your movie, but I'd much rather my kids see a few naked bodies than to see all that violence.

wagnerml2

I think that Gremlins was the first PG-13 movie, but i'm to lazy to google it.

wagnerml2

Nope. I was wrong. Gremlins was PG and parents were mad because it was too graphic, so the ratings were changed. Red Dawn was the first PG13....and probably should have been R.

LegoFanTexas

wagnerml2 said:

Nope. I was wrong. Gremlins was PG and parents were mad because it was too graphic, so the ratings were changed. Red Dawn was the first PG13....and probably should have been R.

The irony of Red Dawn is that it is such a period piece, it says so much about the state of the world in the mid 80s...

It will be a movie I show my kids long before I let them watch LotR, but still not until they are teens.