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azarbille: Looking for input on eBay Transaction

azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
edited February 2014 in Buying & Selling Topics
Hello, I am having some issues with an eBay transaction and just wanted to share my story and get some opinions.

I bought 2 Tower Bridges recently with the description "Heavy storage damage". But the pictures he listed weren't bad at all. Very minor scuffs.

Well, I took the deliveries couple days ago and lo and behold, this guy shipped them in plain paper cover without any packing material. There was a huge rip the size of a baseball and about half of the polybags were missing from one of the TBs, not to mention both boxes were completely beat up.

He is refusing to give me refund because the description stated "heavy storage damage", and he won't take both since one of them has missing polybags. Basically, he told me it's USPS's fault, and because I did not buy (I didn't know it was available) shipping insurance, I am completely out of luck.

My argument is that the item arrived in completely different condition than what was shown in the auction. It isn't Storage damage. It is shipping damage caused by the seller. I am not saying things don't happen during transit, but I feel like he should have made at least minimal effort in trying to protect what he shipped and try to deliver in condition that was shown in the auction

It really hurt me seeing damaged/missing LEGO boxes. I love LEGO and it is hard seeing them all beat up. I sense he is in it for investment purposes after seeing other LEGO sets he has for sale.

Has anyone else experience something like this? How did it go?

Thank you.
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Comments

  • margotmargot Member Posts: 2,310
    Obviously you are in the right and will win. First step, file a claim.

    If you have an issue with an item you bought, contact the seller by opening a case in the eBay Resolution Center. If the seller doesn't make things right, we're here to help. Your purchase price and original shipping may be covered by eBay Buyer Protection.

    rancorbaitdougts
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,794
    edited February 2014
    'Heavy storage damage' is very different to 'incomplete product', you'll win any case you open, and that's even without looking at what appears to be, from your description, misleading photos, which I imagine is good secondary grounds for a claim.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
    margot said:

    Obviously you are in the right and will win. First step, file a claim.

    If you have an issue with an item you bought, contact the seller by opening a case in the eBay Resolution Center. If the seller doesn't make things right, we're here to help. Your purchase price and original shipping may be covered by eBay Buyer Protection.

    richo said:

    'Heavy storage damage' is very different to 'incomplete product', you'll win any case you open, and that's even without looking at what appears to be, from your description, misleading photos, which I imagine is good secondary grounds for a claim.

    Thanks for the kind words. I already opened the case via the Resolution Center but eBay encouraged me to work it out with the seller until the 21st.

    In the mean time, I am just exchanging message with the seller and he is pretty adamant about his position while bragging about his feedback count.

    I took plenty of pictures and posted it on the Resolution Center.
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumMember Posts: 748
    If he's a business seller in the EU then you're covered by the Distance Selling Regulations.
  • rancorbaitrancorbait Manitoba CanadaMember Posts: 1,850
    Seeing more of these kinds of threads all the time it seems...

    The seller should have had an picture of what he's selling. Sounds like this guy deserves a big 'ol NEGATIVE on his feedback page.

    I always avoid eBay if possible, it seems there are problems way too often to be worth the time and money.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
    Aleydita said:

    If he's a business seller in the EU then you're covered by the Distance Selling Regulations.

    That's great how EU covers the buyer via regulations. Sadly, I am in California.

    Seeing more of these kinds of threads all the time it seems...

    The seller should have had an picture of what he's selling. Sounds like this guy deserves a big 'ol NEGATIVE on his feedback page.

    I always avoid eBay if possible, it seems there are problems way too often to be worth the time and money.

    It really is disappointing.

    I try to avoid eBay myself except rare occasions.

    He is getting a big old negative (and a first at that) from me without a question or doubt.
  • KiwiLegoMeisterKiwiLegoMeister New ZealandMember Posts: 212
    Sorry to hear of this experience. It is illegal in pretty well every normal country, to use a photo that is not reasonably representative of the goods being sold. To do so is to mislead and misrepresent. If the photo was of other boxes (sets) altogether, then he won't have too many legs to stand on.
    Unfortunately for you, however, 'caveat emptor' still somewhat applies. He alluded to 'heavy storage damage' (which I would take to mean bad crushing), and you may not have asked a couple of obvious questions regarding completeness of content. To be fair, if the boxes looked not too badly crushed, most people would not think to question loss of contents.
    Do as others suggest and seek ebay resolution. Be wary about negative feedback, because in my experience, sellers often reply will even worst stinging and abusive feedback, which ends up a black mark against you.
    Best wishes
  • margotmargot Member Posts: 2,310
    edited February 2014
    If the boxes had heavy storage damage to begin with then it would only make sense for the seller to have taken extra care in packaging the items, as obviously the boxes were fragile to begin with. Shipping in paper should be an automatic lose..
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,236

    Unfortunately for you, however, 'caveat emptor' still somewhat applies. He alluded to 'heavy storage damage' (which I would take to mean bad crushing), and you may not have asked a couple of obvious questions regarding completeness of content.

    I don't agree with this. This is an ebay sale and the onus for all kinds of things is on the seller, and the seller is all over the place. Ignore the rubbish they're spouting, go through the motions of responding but be firm on the fact that the listing promised a complete Tower Bridge in a sealed LEGO box and that's the only thing that's acceptable to you, work within the framework of the case, keep your comments factual, and don't accept any compromise proposed by the seller that isn't to your complete satisfaction.

    Oh, and if you're minded, do post an update. It could be good to read.
    margotdougtsYellowcastleJP3804pharmjodBuriedinBricks
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25

    Sorry to hear of this experience. It is illegal in pretty well every normal country, to use a photo that is not reasonably representative of the goods being sold. To do so is to mislead and misrepresent. If the photo was of other boxes (sets) altogether, then he won't have too many legs to stand on.
    Unfortunately for you, however, 'caveat emptor' still somewhat applies. He alluded to 'heavy storage damage' (which I would take to mean bad crushing), and you may not have asked a couple of obvious questions regarding completeness of content. To be fair, if the boxes looked not too badly crushed, most people would not think to question loss of contents.
    Do as others suggest and seek ebay resolution. Be wary about negative feedback, because in my experience, sellers often reply will even worst stinging and abusive feedback, which ends up a black mark against you.
    Best wishes

    Thanks for the reply.

    The thing that this seller is repeatedly stating is the fact that he did ship out a complete kit. But because of the damage it suffered during transit, I received an incomplete kit, so he blames the shipping carrier and does not put himself at fault.

    I don't know. I get what he is saying, but if this were to be allowed and eBay decides to stand against me, any seller can post a decent picture of a product that does not match description of "heavy storage damage" luring potential buyers and then ship it using cheapest shipping methods with no packing materials, and then come out as a winner no matter what happens to the package and say "I told you about heavy damage, and you chose not to buy insurance".

    I saw an actual product that I thought was worth certain amount of my money. But the product that I received was in much worse shape than the actual pictures of the product he listed BECAUSE he neglected to give it at least the minimal protection it should have gotten from the seller.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
    edited February 2014
    Just to clarify, the first 4 pictures are what the seller posted on the auction, and the following are the ones I've taken after delivery.

    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image

    I just can't fathom how some people are willing to do business like this. It really blows my mind.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
    margot said:

    If the boxes had heavy storage damage to begin with then it would only make sense for the seller to have taken extra care in packaging the items, as obviously the boxes were fragile to begin with. Shipping in paper should be an automatic lose..

    I definitely agree with you.

    Unfortunately for you, however, 'caveat emptor' still somewhat applies. He alluded to 'heavy storage damage' (which I would take to mean bad crushing), and you may not have asked a couple of obvious questions regarding completeness of content.

    I don't agree with this. This is an ebay sale and the onus for all kinds of things is on the seller, and the seller is all over the place. Ignore the rubbish they're spouting, go through the motions of responding but be firm on the fact that the listing promised a complete Tower Bridge in a sealed LEGO box and that's the only thing that's acceptable to you, work within the framework of the case, keep your comments factual, and don't accept any compromise proposed by the seller that isn't to your complete satisfaction.

    Oh, and if you're minded, do post an update. It could be good to read.
    I will do an update for sure. The case will be escalated on the 21st.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,685
    Try to relax in the meantime. I can't see you losing this.
    margotpharmjod
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumMember Posts: 748
    edited February 2014
    Surely the seller is responsible for ensuring the items arrive with you safely, and if damage occurs in transit then the dispute is between him and his choice of courier. I would argue it's only if you yourself arrange for a courier to pick them up that he wouldn't have to sort it out.

    (a) The contract of sale is between you and him.
    (b) However, the contract of delivery is between him and his choice of courier.

    (a) hasn't happened because of a failure of (b). He is responsible for settling any claim relating to (a), and claiming on any insurance relating to (b).

    This is all mandated by regulation in the EU but surely similar consumer protection regulations exist in the US? How can you be expected to put up with losses relating to a breach of a contract that you didn't sign?
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 940
    edited February 2014
    @azarbillie Is this the auction? goo.gl/z5bMo0

    If so, the seller does give a 14 days money back return. Is the seller offering only a return on one of the sets since the other is missing bags? Also, assuming you paid via Paypal, you do have buyer protection via Paypal.
  • LegowerksLegowerks Member Posts: 12
    Once the case escalates and an actual ebay rep looks at it you'll be in the clear, don't lose any sleep over it. eBay will offer you the option to ship the items back and they will provide the shipping labels (likely) seller will quickly realize he can play ball, or just be out the cash and product.
  • cloaked7cloaked7 Member Posts: 1,448
    I think eBay will side with the buyer. First off it is totally unreasonable to NOT ship a LEGO set in a box. I have sold over 1,400 items on eBay and every one was shipped in a box. I think the rule (who doesn't ship in a box?) is to ship in a box and to do otherwise is an exception. And, exceptions should be noted in the listing. So, if the seller were NOT going to ship in a separate box they should have noted so in the listing.

    eBay states all the time to sellers to be as descriptive as possible about an item. And, they emphasize including a lot of photos too. eBay, and everyone, realizes the best way to convey the condition of something is with photos. The onus is on the seller to be extremely descriptive and to include a lot of photos. I think a seller can now include 8 (maybe 10 or 12) photos free. So, why not include lots of photos?

    Also, it's the seller's responsibility to get the item to you in as good as reasonably possible condition. It's really on the seller to insure the product. I insure everything I ship. The most expensive the item all the more reason to insure it.

    I am not directly saying so, but it seems to me that the seller was trying to be deceptive from the start. Don't include photos, don't ship in a separate box. Then, blame the shipper.
  • KiwiLegoMeisterKiwiLegoMeister New ZealandMember Posts: 212
    Hi there.

    Your photos seem quite clear that the damage occurred in transit. It certainly seems that the seller was not misleading in describing the products or condition (at least, not to any major degree). And whilst the packaging was not totally secure, he did wrap in paper and water-proof(ish) plastic, and it may be that he did enough to pass a 'reasonable' test.
    Unless a seller is a professional trader, he cannot always be expected to know how best to package a product (and I know many sellers on ebay are professional, but equally, many are not). You perhaps could have instructed the seller how to package the goods prior to sending;
    I received a Lego Simpsons from lego.com a week back; even in one of their usual parcel boxes, and with some plastic bag stuffing, it still incurred some minor crush on the way over (the outer box was a bit more crushed).
    Perhaps your main issue is not even through ebay; but with the delivery agents (courier or whatever). But they will probably not be very helpful; Did your seller charge for insurance in transit? If not, you may be tough out of luck.
    Not a palatable position I know; but eBay sellers cannot take total responsibility for what happens to items in transit; that is what insurance is for.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,112
    Ebay buyer protection will side with you, no worries. I am a regular seller on Ebay and the onus to ensure undamaged delivery is 100% on the seller. You will get made whole, just work through the process and be patient. If the seller paid for insurance, then he can collect from them. If he didn't, then he will be out some money, and hopefully he will learn to ship with better protection in the future.
    margotYellowcastleLegoboy
  • jadedancjadedanc USAMember Posts: 1,303
    edited February 2014
    I disagree @KiwiLegoMeister. A seller should take reasonable care to package an item they sell so it arrives at the buyer the same way as it left the seller. Yes things happen in transit but wrapping a $200+ set in brown paper is not reasonable care.

    I had the exact thing happen with a Shuttle Expedition set. Seller just wrapped it in brown paper, shipped it and it arrived with a large hole in it. I didn't even bother to unwrap it as I filed a complaint with eBay. They found in my favor and I shipped it back to him. Got my money back so I hope it goes the same for you.
  • margotmargot Member Posts: 2,310

    You perhaps could have instructed the seller how to package the goods prior to sending;

    Ridiculous...

    ColoradoBrickscloaked7dougtsYellowcastleLegoboyLegoManiaccLegoFanTexasBuriedinBricksmaniac
  • ColoradoBricksColoradoBricks Denver, CO, USAMember Posts: 1,640
    From the eBay website: "Remember, the seller is responsible for the item until it is in the buyer's possession. eBay protects buyers if items arrive damaged, and sellers should consider insuring their items to protect themselves against damage or loss."

    Insurance must be included in the sale price, seller can't ask for it once the item is sold (not an option on eBay) . It does not matter what are the seller terms, eBay terms will prevail. A proper seller would never ship a tower bridge uninsured (well, a proper seller would not ship them in brown bag either...).

    Might be a bit of paper work, but you will eventually going to win your claim make sure you only communicate through eBay.
    margotmonkeyhanger
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumMember Posts: 748
    "Did your seller charge for insurance in transit?"

    ... is the biggest con on eBay/BL/etc. Insurance protects the seller NOT the buyer. As I said above the seller is responsible for ensuring the product arrives safely and is the one to enter into a contract with the courier. If that contract fails it is up to the seller to sort it out.
    YellowcastlemonkeyhangerLegoboyLegoManiacc
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Basically, he told me it's USPS's fault, and because I did not buy (I didn't know it was available) shipping insurance, I am completely out of luck.

    Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. I really wish more people understood this basic point.

    In short, it is up to the seller to get the item to you, they choose the shipping service and they can pick to buy insurance if they wish, but if you don't get what you bought, it is all on them.

    eBay's buyer protection will cover you. Keep in mind that this is also a good reason to pay with an actual credit card via PayPal as well, because on the off chance you run into trouble, your credit card covers you as well.
    YellowcastlemadforLEGOmonkeyhanger
  • adukaduk Member Posts: 153
    In relation to the op I am sure eBay will find in your favour so don't worry. in terms of the more general point that @cloaked7 raised about how Lego should be shipped I find that very few UK ebay sellers ship Lego sets in a outer shipping box. I agree that shipping in an outerbox should be the minimum expected I just haven't found it to be the case. I bought a tower of orthanc and arkham asylum of ebay and both arrived in brown paper. Both turned up damaged. I only tend to buy used sets of ebay now because of this.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    ^ I'd be careful buying currently available and unopened sets from the secondary market. You're just begging for trouble, IMO.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25
    1265 said:

    @azarbillie Is this the auction? goo.gl/z5bMo0

    If so, the seller does give a 14 days money back return. Is the seller offering only a return on one of the sets since the other is missing bags? Also, assuming you paid via Paypal, you do have buyer protection via Paypal.

    Yes, that is the one.

    He offered a money back return, but only for one of the two TB's. (He stated the return can only be made for "complete" item)

    You perhaps could have instructed the seller how to package the goods prior to sending

    I guess I could have, sure but I think it's one of those things that makes sense in theory but not in reality.

    dougts said:

    Ebay buyer protection will side with you, no worries. I am a regular seller on Ebay and the onus to ensure undamaged delivery is 100% on the seller. You will get made whole, just work through the process and be patient. If the seller paid for insurance, then he can collect from them. If he didn't, then he will be out some money, and hopefully he will learn to ship with better protection in the future.

    That's very assuring to hear :)
    jadedanc said:

    I disagree @KiwiLegoMeister. A seller should take reasonable care to package an item they sell so it arrives at the buyer the same way as it left the seller. Yes things happen in transit but wrapping a $200+ set in brown paper is not reasonable care.

    I had the exact thing happen with a Shuttle Expedition set. Seller just wrapped it in brown paper, shipped it and it arrived with a large hole in it. I didn't even bother to unwrap it as I filed a complaint with eBay. They found in my favor and I shipped it back to him. Got my money back so I hope it goes the same for you.

    Ah, so there WAS someone out there who went through what I am going through :)

    That's good to hear and I am glad things went smoothly in your favor.
    Aleydita said:

    "Did your seller charge for insurance in transit?"

    ... is the biggest con on eBay/BL/etc. Insurance protects the seller NOT the buyer. As I said above the seller is responsible for ensuring the product arrives safely and is the one to enter into a contract with the courier. If that contract fails it is up to the seller to sort it out.

    I see. Well, I am feeling much better now! Thanks!
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    Aleydita said:

    "Did your seller charge for insurance in transit?"

    ... is the biggest con on eBay/BL/etc. Insurance protects the seller NOT the buyer. As I said above the seller is responsible for ensuring the product arrives safely and is the one to enter into a contract with the courier. If that contract fails it is up to the seller to sort it out.

    Basically, he told me it's USPS's fault, and because I did not buy (I didn't know it was available) shipping insurance, I am completely out of luck.

    Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. I really wish more people understood this basic point.

    In short, it is up to the seller to get the item to you, they choose the shipping service and they can pick to buy insurance if they wish, but if you don't get what you bought, it is all on them.

    eBay's buyer protection will cover you. Keep in mind that this is also a good reason to pay with an actual credit card via PayPal as well, because on the off chance you run into trouble, your credit card covers you as well.
    It's worth noting that, at least in this case, it wouldn't have mattered if the seller HAD insured the package, as they wouldn't have won the claim with USPS anyway, due to how poorly the sets were packaged to begin with.

    A lot of people have already basically stated this, but the entire crux of the problem here isn't with the buyer or the carrier (the packaging isn't even marked FRAGILE or HANDLE WITH CARE) - it's squarely with the seller and the moronic way they packaged the set.
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 940
    y2josh said:


    It's worth noting that, at least in this case, it wouldn't have mattered if the seller HAD insured the package, as they wouldn't have won the claim with USPS anyway, due to how poorly the sets were packaged to begin with.

    USPS is a third-rate organization run by inapt management who hire..........

    I agree, the USPS would of dismissed this case.

  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    ^It's not just USPS (which I still maintain is the best of the three options, though still certainly flawed) - FedEx and UPS would have dismissed a claim against that kind of packaging as well.
    pharmjod
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,169
    edited February 2014

    Sorry to hear of this experience. It is illegal in pretty well every normal country, to use a photo that is not reasonably representative of the goods being sold. To do so is to mislead and misrepresent. If the photo was of other boxes (sets) altogether, then he won't have too many legs to stand on.
    Unfortunately for you, however, 'caveat emptor' still somewhat applies. He alluded to 'heavy storage damage' (which I would take to mean bad crushing), and you may not have asked a couple of obvious questions regarding completeness of content. To be fair, if the boxes looked not too badly crushed, most people would not think to question loss of contents.
    Do as others suggest and seek ebay resolution. Be wary about negative feedback, because in my experience, sellers often reply will even worst stinging and abusive feedback, which ends up a black mark against you.
    Best wishes

    It is not unfortunate for the buyer. eBay has made it VERY clear that the buyer is usually right in most issues.
    Ebay reports that shipping has to protect the product I believe. Brown wrapping paper does not do this, end of story.
    As for the heavy storage damage. The packaging looks damaged and mirrored what the LEGO box looked like, this 'heavy storage damage' goes right out the window. Dents are one thing, but tears in the box are not see if the first photos

    Also, and I cannot stress this enough... you cannot retaliate on feedback to buyers. If someone tries to do this via a 'positive' feedback to the buyer then eBay will yank it and likely suspend the seller for trying it.
    Do not say something that may intimidate someone to not leave a feedback without knowing the facts.

    I will say that anyone should be leery of someone selling an item with a catalog photo. That is why If I sell something I take a photo of the actual item as it protects me as much as it protects a buyer.
    As for having to tell someone how to ship. I have done this in the past, but it should not be up to the buyer to have to dictate how best a seller should box something up.
    It is in the sellers best interest to pack the item well, as the box is seen in the listing then the Box has to arrive in the shape is was sold in, only a ignorant peopel would not realize wrapping paper would not be enough. Im guessing if this seller has sold two TBs then they likely sell other LEGO which throws the excuse about poor shipping out the window as well IMO.

    Basically, he told me it's USPS's fault, and because I did not buy (I didn't know it was available) shipping insurance, I am completely out of luck.

    Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. I really wish more people understood this basic point.

    In short, it is up to the seller to get the item to you, they choose the shipping service and they can pick to buy insurance if they wish, but if you don't get what you bought, it is all on them.

    eBay's buyer protection will cover you. Keep in mind that this is also a good reason to pay with an actual credit card via PayPal as well, because on the off chance you run into trouble, your credit card covers you as well.
    If I am not mistaken it is up to the sender of the package to make insurance claims via the Post office (correct me if I am wrong) so it stands to reason the seller needs to buy the insurance to protect themselves.
    monkeyhanger
  • legofanfromleedslegofanfromleeds legoland...England Member Posts: 363
    edited February 2014

    margot said:

    Obviously you are in the right and will win. First step, file a claim.

    If you have an issue with an item you bought, contact the seller by opening a case in the eBay Resolution Center. If the seller doesn't make things right, we're here to help. Your purchase price and original shipping may be covered by eBay Buyer Protection.

    richo said:

    'Heavy storage damage' is very different to 'incomplete product', you'll win any case you open, and that's even without looking at what appears to be, from your description, misleading photos, which I imagine is good secondary grounds for a claim.

    Thanks for the kind words. I already opened the case via the Resolution Center but eBay encouraged me to work it out with the seller until the 21st.

    In the mean time, I am just exchanging message with the seller and he is pretty adamant about his position while bragging about his feedback count.

    I took plenty of pictures and posted it on the Resolution Center.
    If you have no luck with the seller and all negotiations have failed then can I suggest you escalate the case in the resolution centre..basically you now have ebay on yoir side and they will decide the outcome much sooner..theres no doubt you'll receive a full refund without any difficulty at all... cases are normal closed within 24hrs..
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,761
    edited February 2014
    This should be a clear cut case with Ebay on the side of the buyer. The seller always takes the risk when they don't insure. The seller is responsible for the condition the box arrives in and if the courier has damaged in transit, it is up to the seller to raise a claim against the courier and recover any compensation due, the buyer needs to be reimbursed through the seller, not the courier.

    There is only one potential sticking point - I do hope the OP raised the issue of large and clearly visible damage with the courier when receiving the items. If you signed to say you received them in good condition and then didn't report the issue shortly after (maybe a family member took them in and just signed for them with no comment etc, then you ring up as soon as you see them), you might be in bother. If those items were signed for "received in good condition", this is the one thing that the seller or courier could get you on because it would appear that you got your items in good condition and damage was sustained later (that is the way it will be seen by the courier when they do what they can do to avoid a payout).
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25

    This should be a clear cut case with Ebay on the side of the buyer. The seller always takes the risk when they don't insure. The seller is responsible for the condition the box arrives in and if the courier has damaged in transit, it is up to the seller to raise a claim against the courier and recover any compensation due, the buyer needs to be reimbursed through the seller, not the courier.

    There is only one potential sticking point - I do hope the OP raised the issue of large and clearly visible damage with the courier when receiving the items. If you signed to say you received them in good condition and then didn't report the issue shortly after (maybe a family member took them in and just signed for them with no comment etc, then you ring up as soon as you see them), you might be in bother. If those items were signed for "received in good condition", this is the one thing that the seller or courier could get you on because it would appear that you got your items in good condition and damage was sustained later (that is the way it will be seen by the courier when they do what they can do to avoid a payout).

    Hello, thanks for the advice.

    It was my family member indeed who signed it upon delivery.
    But I did send a message to the seller immediately, and I also called eBay that day and told the rep about the issue.

    And since courier insurance isn't involved, I think the seller has slim chance.

    Hopefully, everything goes smoothly :)


  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,236
    BTW @azarbillie, do you have clear in your mind what resolution you'd be happy with? If so, what is it? (Asking in the spirit of pure nosiness.)
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,818
    I sell with catalog photos all the time and have never had any problems. I always describe the item. I NEVER list anything as Mint or Near Mint because quite frankly I don't want that type of buyer. I have better things to do with my time than deal with nitpickers. I have never had any problems because I always describe my items and if there are more than one, I tell buyers you will receive the best available from my inventory. If it is a really high dollar set, I do try to take photos of any issues, however I have found that a good description coupled with a slightly discounted price tends to take care of most issues. And as has been stated here, I always use outer shipping boxes and some combination of air packs, bubble wrap and packing peanuts.

    Catalog photos make listing much easier than taking pictures of every single item. Just be responsible and honest with every listing.
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25

    BTW @azarbillie, do you have clear in your mind what resolution you'd be happy with? If so, what is it? (Asking in the spirit of pure nosiness.)

    Hello Mountebank,

    I want full refund for both sets plus shipping cost back.

    Before I contacted the seller, I was willing to keep one box (I was going to build one anyways) but he decided to be a douchebag, so I am going to ship them back exactly the same manner.

  • Brick_ObsessionBrick_Obsession in a "Brick" house - Calgary, AlbertaMember Posts: 654
    Can anyone say Ace Ventura: Pet Detective

    Looks like laces were not facing out when that one box was kicked through the uprights.

    It's always a shame to see things like this happen to buyers. I am perplexed as to why the seller thought that paper was good enough to ship the items in. To a seller, reputation means everything and this person did everything in their own power to tarnish their own reputation.

    One of the biggest reason I got out of selling was always the fear of who the item arrived. Their word versus your word, hassles of dealing with shipping concerns, insuarances claims. Was not worth the worry for me.

    As all have mentioned above, due process will take care of everything and you should be compensated.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,761
    azarbillie: I would not be sending them back in the same manner. I would be boxing them so he cannot counter-accuse you of causing even more damage. I would take pics for ebay, and when you send back, show pics of them getting boxed. I would also insist that he pays for an insured return with proof of postage - don't want him claiming not to have gotten them back. If he refuses to cover shipping costs on those terms, perhaps ebay will intervene and insist on it with their involvement (have you involved ebay yet?).
  • azarbillieazarbillie Member Posts: 25

    azarbillie: I would not be sending them back in the same manner. I would be boxing them so he cannot counter-accuse you of causing even more damage. I would take pics for ebay, and when you send back, show pics of them getting boxed. I would also insist that he pays for an insured return with proof of postage - don't want him claiming not to have gotten them back. If he refuses to cover shipping costs on those terms, perhaps ebay will intervene and insist on it with their involvement (have you involved ebay yet?).

    Hi monkeyhanger

    Thanks for the advice. You are right. I was being emotional. I am going to ship it the correct and proper way with insurance/confirmation and try to have him or eBay cover the cost.

    I have eBay involved, but their policy is to give buyer and the shipper a chance to come to an agreement before I can escalate the claim and have eBay decide who's at fault and what can be done.

    A lot of bricks, I would say close to 80 or 90% are missing for one TB. Many polybags came missing and opened unfortunately. I simply don't know what eBay will want me to do with it but I will just follow their guidance.

    Thank you for all the advices guys!
  • Bluefairy_56Bluefairy_56 Member Posts: 320
    eBay will see this in your favour.

    Unfortunately eBay will not make the seller pay the postage for returning the items to the seller. The end result in a resolution is the buyer has to return the items at your cost. It sucks, and no matter what you will always be out of pocket.
    eBay will refund you original amount you paid and that's it.
    eBay will insist you insure the item for return, costing you more than it did in the first place.

    I bought a doll house kit from eBay. When I received it , it was in a crap box, when I opened it it stank of mouse urine and included mice droppings as well. This was not in the description so was an added bonus. I took photos, checked through it with rubber gloves on, and found the doll house had about 90% of it missing. I contacted the buyer, who said that I got what I paid for...I put in a dispute with eBay! and they sided with me! as the item was not as described.

    I had to return it, even though the post office wanted to refuse because of biohazard reasons. They said I had to place item in several layers of bags first. I also had to insure it. The seller never told eBay or PayPal she received it, so they checked the tracking and she had. I only received the original money I paid, nothing for the return postage. Plus you only get the refund once they receive notification the seller received the item, so if they don't let them know, you have to.

    Also sellers can not leave neutral or negative feedback. They can though reply to your comments, and you can reply back.

    Good luck
  • TheAdiposeTheAdipose Member Posts: 7
    I too feel you have nothing to worry about.

    As another member correctly pointed out above insurance protects the sender not the receiver, to the point the goods belong to the sender until they are received, So any damage in transit is the senders problem.

    If someone is daft enough to send a parcel for expensive goods without proper packaging or insurance then bad luck to them when this type of thing happens.

    I know when we were power sellers on ebay a while back it was a case of deciding what was more economical between not registering and insuring a package and having to replace the item for the buyer or paying for insurance etc.

    We sent items that were under $15Au uninsured as it would be better value for us to replace the item for the buyer should something happen compared to paying $7 insurance on every package sent.

    We figured if you sent 10 parcels that would work out at $70 insurance and if one went missing uninsured it was better to replace a $2 item we had sold for $15 than pay the insurance every single time.

    The seller of these sets to you took a massive risk and the chips have landed badly for him/her.

    Ebay will find in your favor and return your funds paid.

    If you used paypal you would also be covered via buyer protection.

    If you paid via credit card you could also claim a chargeback via your bank as goods received not as described/damaged.

    So relax even if ebay do not play ball you have other options.

    Do not leave any negative feedback until you get your refund as this seller seems to be quite proud of their feedback so save the threat of a neg feedback as your trump card also.

    Good Luck


  • legoprodslegoprods SpainMember Posts: 434
    What I can't seem to understand is how an employee would see big bags falling out of a box and not fix it, but throw them out. I guess it happened in a truck, but then again, a truck doesn't move enough for this to happen. This has had to be human made.

    That, or I don't know how the Postal System works.
  • Bluefairy_56Bluefairy_56 Member Posts: 320
    My husband used to meet a postal truck on the border of our state, he had to make deliveries to the truck while they loaded their truck with parcels from a drop off point. The workers worked it so one picked up a parcel, threw it to his mate, then the mate threw it into the back of the truck. Sometimes to break the boredom they would kick it into the van, each taking turns.

    Hubby said he could always hear some of the parcels with what sounded like broken pieces in them as they were kicked or thrown. They also did this to the ones marked FRAGILE in big letters on the boxes.

    Some postal workers just don't care. I think this goes on all over the world with one or two workers...not good at all.
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumMember Posts: 748
    If eBay won't force the seller to cover the cost of return postage, I personally would go straight to a credit card charge back. If goods are not as described then the buyer is under no obligation to pay to send them back. I'd do the charge back then give them 7 days to arrange collection of their goods before putting them out with the rubbish.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,761
    It does seem universally wrong for the buyer to be obligated to pay, at their own expense, return shipping for a faulty/damaged or not as described item, without possibility of reimbursement.

    That is actually illegal under UK law and in a similar circumstance, Ebay provided me with a pre-paid returns label for a UK ebay purchase when the seller said they would not pay my return purchase on a heavily damaged item.
  • Bluefairy_56Bluefairy_56 Member Posts: 320
    Unfortunately this is what happens here in Australia. The buyer has to pay for the return of the item to the seller.

    Some sellers are great and will reimburse you or you can do what you like with it. But eBay and PayPal make you pay.
  • kekekekekeke united kingdomMember Posts: 33
    Did you pay via paypal and using credit card? if that is the case, you can always dispute a charge with your credit card company if ebay dispute fails.
  • AleyditaAleydita BelgiumMember Posts: 748

    Unfortunately this is what happens here in Australia. The buyer has to pay for the return of the item to the seller.

    Some sellers are great and will reimburse you or you can do what you like with it. But eBay and PayPal make you pay.

    So if you order a book and they send you an elephant, you're responsible for sending the elephant back? Crazy.

    Sure, if you get what you ordered but simply change your mind, then yes it's fair that you pay to return it, but if the seller screws up why should anyone lose out but them?
  • Bluefairy_56Bluefairy_56 Member Posts: 320
    Aleydita said:

    Unfortunately this is what happens here in Australia. The buyer has to pay for the return of the item to the seller.

    Some sellers are great and will reimburse you or you can do what you like with it. But eBay and PayPal make you pay.

    So if you order a book and they send you an elephant, you're responsible for sending the elephant back? Crazy.

    Sure, if you get what you ordered but simply change your mind, then yes it's fair that you pay to return it, but if the seller screws up why should anyone lose out but them?
    Yep as I said when I received the dollhouse, PayPal/eBay sided with me and refunded what I paid for it originally + original postage. But they told me I had to pay for registered or insured postage to return it (I had to have proof I had sent it back).

    It's not fair, and no buyers like it, and I have no idea why it's like is.
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