Why so much dislike for Superheroes?

DrLegOBrick

I was curious, why so serious about Superheroes? I realise that DC's become "Bat-Man and super friend slackers" (turning up once a year?) convention, and Marvel's becoming "Pointless useless superfluous Spider-Man vehicle of the month" (I'm not sure Aunt May's not going to notice that multi coloured VTOL in the back yard...), but I see, in addition to this, a large amount of people complaining about how the sets are mini-fig driven. From a Marvel fan view point at least, there's something people seem to forget about the sets, particularly in the case of Marvel, that the very basis of the sets are reversed, that it's not the vehicles but the figures, the super powered characters themselves, who are the main star, while anything else is there to paint the picture, AKA to be thrown around by an angry super villain. That's, IMHO, what will make Superheroes succeed, you've got an unlimited pool of stuff to make, sure you need the necessity's (Such as the Quinjet, Blackbird etc), but apart from that, you can make anything within reason, as long as it fits in with established Marvel/DC law, thus reducing repeatability. I'm just grateful we've got any superhero sets in the first place. Anyway to stay on topic, is there anything I'm missing? Anything from a non subjective view point I've missed? I'd love to hear some views.

TheLoneTensor

What?

scrumper

DrLegOBrick said:

Anyway to stay on topic,

I'm impressed, going off topic in the first post of your own thread. :-)

sweetness34

One missing thing is maybe some line breaks. ;)

Chrisbstm

I love the superhero sets, and will usually just build my own environment to go with the minifigs. I like to think of the instructions as suggestions, or a starting point.

kooz

I like them. I don't like the Marvel sets with the random vehicles, but I am digging the Batman sets, especially the larger ones. The recent Batcave is pretty cool (got it for my 3 year old, he built it and loves it), and Arkham Asylum is amazing. I'd say it's up there with Haunted House (and now, Parisian Restaurant) in the top 3 models I own. So count me as one more fan of the super heroes line.

legomatt

Short Answer: I haven't detected any dislike for the super heroes. It seems a thoroughly popular theme to me.

Long answer: You possibly answered your own question as to where faults might be found. (paraphrased):

DrLegOBrick said:

Marvel's becoming 'Pointless superfluous vehicle of the month'... it's not the vehicles but the super powered characters who are the main star, anything else, bar the necessities such as Quinjet etc, is just there to be thrown around.

The series is indeed minifig driven, making as you say whatever non-essentials they throw in largely superfluous, and who wants to pay £60 for 'pointless superfluous' ballast just to get Mr HeroVillainMan. Who wants a fleet of vehicles parked outside Aunt May's home (if she had one)?

So, the only 'dislike', if you want to call it that, is not for the super heroes theme, but possibly (and this applies equally to any theme) at those high priced sets with superfluous crummy builds taking up a price point (if it must be adhered to) which could have been used for something worth building, such as (in super heroes cases), gothic street scenes of gotham, Wayne Manor, Peter Parker's home, Museum/Bank Vault/Library facades, Justice Departments, Evil Lairs, terrified civilians, whatever.

So as I say, I don't see any dislike for the theme beyond general criticism which is equally applied to any other theme, that being if we're buying 750+ worth of bricks in a set, let's have something thematic and worth building.

nkx1

Admittedly, I'm not really a fan of anything comic-related. However, if Lego makes an impressive-looking large (or even medium-sized) set, I'll buy it regardless of the theme. Arkham Asylum falls into that category, as do some of the Batman sets from 2006-2007. The rest of the recent Super Heroes theme is a little too juniorized for my taste, though I realize I'm not exactly their target demographic.

tamamahm

View? Simple. My son has no interest in super heroes.

legodude

Let me start by prefacing, Superheroes, as the name implies is a theme that comes with grand expectations, many that are far from realistic, but hey we are fans and it is our obligation to demand things that are not within reason. Next let us consider how many fans have wished and dreamed of ever getting minifigs based on their childhood favorites, never in our wildest dreams we imagined LEGO getting Marvel and DC licenses simultaneously based on both Universe's without restrictions. This created immense hype (still going strong), and as soon as it was announced every third rate character was demanded by fans and longed for. Sorry LEGO but it comes with the territory. You can not have a Superheroes theme and not get backlash when you don't give the fans what they want. This is a unique theme and should be treated as such. You are wondering why people rant on it alot, and guess what, this is another of those rants. The simple reason is also why we rant on City/Police/Fire, we want more than Batman and Superman and Spider-man we want our fan favorites and we don't want to hear any "business" excuses either. Next, we don't want imaginary incredibly lame vehicles for Spider-man. Give us Subway Trains, and NY scenery. I don't want to hear the kids excuse, sorry that doesn't fly right. Just because it is for kids, does not mean the design has to be garbage. But But but you might say they have to make them durable for play! Honestly LEGO's aren't ragdolls, you throw them against the wall and they WILL break apart no matter how dumbed down and well built the model is. That is striving for something that doesn't matter in reality. Sorry not interested in justifications. I guess people just want sets that are made with common sense. We don't want 8 of the same ugly USM minifig, give us the different suits already! ASM, Superior, FF etc. I would also say LEGO needs to up their game, I get the feeling they have no clue what they are doing a lot. Every wave there is a lot of hype, only to go unfulfilled and disappointed. Are the fans asking for outlandish things? Not really as I joked earlier. They simply want the Fortress of Solitude and more rogues for Superman, and would it hurt for a Green Arrow set? Also why no Dark World or Winter Soldier sets? One set (and come one everyone can think of once scene that would be a good set) would be sufficient. We are easily pleased fans, I am loving the X-jet and Sentinel set with Cyclops and Storm (even if the designs are weak, but hey I will take what I can get lol). We also want more bases for the heroes, just think how cool those can be! "But our focus groups of kids say they like vehicles". Irrelevant, get back to the AT&T commercial! Lastly, if they want to sell figs and bricks as spare parts they should switch this theme to a CMF only one.

Hope that answered your question. :)

legomatt

Ladies and gentlemen, @legodude appeared in this thread as the Incredible Breathless Man.
;oP

Rast

Peter Parker's his car.

DougTemplar

LEGO's issue is that as we know the majority of their mid range sets are vehicle driven - therefore they have legitimately been trying to match Heroes/Villains and vehicles.

Now in the case of Batman with all the various "Bat Toys" that is relatively simple - Bat Boat, Bat Mobile, Bat Plane etc

But beyond batman (and even in fact Batman Beyond) there are but a handful of Superheroes with special vehicles to get around - because well they are Superheroes. Of DC and Marvel I'm struggling to think of a major signature vehicle that isn't already available or due this year - with the two exceptions of the Fantastic Car and Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet.

There are some other vehicles out there which LEGO could do - The Blue Beetle's Bug for instance for which I would offer my entire collection to get an official one (as long as it's a good build). The Supermobile from the mid 70s - there are a few excellent MOC of that out there as well. But they aren't exactly mainstream heroes or well known designs.

That then leaves two areas, Villain Vehicles - those are few and far between and playsets.

I think we all want more playset and buildings. But the issue here is that to do a good building you need more bricks as we know and that means bigger and more expensive sets. And playsets are actually difficult to do as they would mostly be generic - witness the two Hulk Helicarrier sets and the two (if not 3 with the juniors coming along) batcaves.

So with this in mind LEGO have a dilemma - go big or just wing it with the vehicles. Personally I've got a list of bases/buildings I would want.

JLA Satellite/Watchtower
Titans Tower
Young Justice Happy Harbour Base
Legion of Superheroes Club House
Daily Planet
Gotham Police HQ - with a light brick bat signal.
Wayne Mansion
Kent Farm
OA
Hall of Justice

X-Mansion
Stark Tower (since it's unlikely to be Avengers Mansion if we have X-Mansion)
Baxter Building/Lab

So there in a nutshell is the issue as I can see it. Fans want MORE mini figs and more buildings/playsets. LEGO can't do that without big price points which means Kids won't be the target.

The best solution I can think of is that for DC at least we get the "Death Star I" equivalent which is a JLA Minifig heavy Hall of Justice or JLA Watchtower. Throw in all the missing JLA Minifigs and others and make it a big set and let it sit there for a while. Maybe that is the plan and it just depends on how long LEGO can keep the Superhero Franchise alive and selling well - and that might well depend on the Video Games.

DougTemplar

Argh forgot to add Fortress of Solitude and Paradise Island as sets!

luckyruss

No, wonder woman's invisible jet is included - didn't you spot it?

DrLegOBrick

Well, thanks all, I'll refrain from more stupid questions, it looks like I've got the wrong end of the stick, as it where. On other websites, I'd got the impression that Superheroes was viewed negatively, bad sets, drifting from Lego's ethos bla bla bla, weather that's dislike or criticism, I guess its all shades of grey and all down to opinion, I was curious to see what the Brickseters opinions where.

Well, Captain Breathless "legodude" has answered my question. Just to add my stance, I am a Superheroes fan, Marvel mainly now, and I won't lie, I've bought or am in the process of buying all Marvel sets, and extras, I've bought 4 helicarriers, 5 SHEILD Cars, and 3 SHEILD jeeps separated on eBay, and as long as Lego keep making, I'll keep buying. As much as I want Korvac, Count Nefaria, Super-Adaptoid, classic Thanos, Charlie 27, Vance Astro, and the entirety of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard..., I doubt they'll ever get made except perhaps Thanos, hence my customs. I fully support Lego Superheroes, however I hate the Spidey vehicles, and I hate the focus on Spider-Man, but I've come to realise that won't change anytime soon, if Superheroes is the evergreen theme it's said to be, it'll change, they've just got to secure the Market before branching out, like Star Wars. In the mean time, I can live with getting people like Nick Fury, Dr Doom, Nova, Luke Cage, and a classic Doc Ock while I wait. As for the sets been over priced? I can see that, when I look at a SW Clone Wars ship for £70-£80 I think "What the hell?!", when I see a Quinjet for £65 I think "Bargain!". I guess for people outside of being a Superhero fan, they could say the same thing about the Quinjet.

As for sets? I've lost nearly all interest in DC, but Marvel wise, things I find iconic? Hydra Island, Helicarrier, USS Captain America 2, Castle Von Doom, The Baxter Building, Avengers Mansion (plus any number of the rooms under it), Xavier's School For Gifted Youngsters (Plus any of the rooms under it, "cough" Danger Room), Kree starships, Skrull Starships, Shi'ar Starships, Brood Living Starships (maybe a bit difficult wit the Acanti), The Starjammer, SHEILD vehicles (I'd love a red flying Ferrari)...

I'll work on trying to space my writing out , and I'll try to keep on topic with my own topic when I post possibly further in this topic. Thanks for all the contributions and opinions.

vwong19

I enjoy everything super heroes, especially Lego. I think a good portion of hate towards Lego Super Heroes stems from the ultra rare exclusive mini figures issued at the last 3 SDCC and Toy Fair. Some hardcore collectors love them, but the majority of Lego fans probably find it very annoying... Almost to the point of giving up on the theme entirely.

Personally, Super Heroes is my favorite and I hope they continue for years to come and eventually introduce every character offered in their video games, which are such a tease.

Bumblepants

I think a lot of the dissatisfaction boils down to frustrations with minfigs based off of current cartoons rather than the classic versions most AFOLs grew up loving and sets designed with crappy vehicles like Spider-tricycles and Mandarin Golfcarts. Despite these issues, I think there is a lot to be positive about such as Arkham Asylum getting the 12+ treatment and just the fact that we are getting 10 or more Superheros sets a year and attempts to make new characters.

I am looking forward to seeing the Guardians of the Galaxy sets for this summer and in 2015 we will be getting a large batch of Avengers 2 which ought to get us Ultron, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch alongside the current roster.

tamamahm

Huh. Yes, if there was a Fortress of Solitude or building large enough to haves omere ally cool special feature, my son would be all over that even despite not caringf or super heroes. I think DougTemplar hasa. Good point here. This is a similar issue with LOTR which does not have vehicles and the sets are often too small to truly capture a scene or location.

Paperbackwriter

Huh?

nkx1

^tamamahm's post is generally coherent (you just have to decipher some spacing and punctuation issues).

Paperbackwriter

It was more of a general 'huh'. No specific offense intended.

duilim

I think that the concern about the Superheroes theme is that TLG know that consumers are willing to pay high prices for certain figures and so are less likely to put as much effort into the actual set itself, relying on the figures for sales instead. Just imagine if they released a Green Lantern figure in a $100 set. It wouldn't mattet if the set was rubbish, it would still sell and Lego know this given the SDCC version is going for ten times as much online.