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2014 Reseller Challenge

245

Comments

  • legoprodslegoprods Member Posts: 445
    I mean, who cares if they bought a MF form 100$ and sold it for 2000$? All profit is going into Fairy Bricks, so, if they are donating 1900$, let them win the game! ;-)
    FollowsCloselymargotSirKevbagsEKSamLegoFanTexasscrumper
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,543
    edited December 2013
    You could always count the totals separately, perhaps creating two awards.

    Example: A special award for 'unrestricted' competition (i.e. includes items bought prior to 2014), while the standard competition only takes 2014 purchases into account.

    (Whilst not competing, so ignore me if you prefer), it makes better sense competition-wise for everyone to start from the same spot. i.e. zero inventory and equivalent spending money.

    Otherwise you're effectively starting from different spend points, as inventory is basically 'money-in-waiting'. Also, there'd be the problem of someone being able to pick and choose mid-competition, or nearer the end, whether or not previously obtained inventory gets added or not, depending on how advantageous it might be at the time.

    So I would recommend:
    2014 charity seller comp
    Equivalent spending amount, AND zero starting inventory.

    maybe with optional (if people demand it):
    2014 unrestricted award
    Equivalent spending money (as above), plus existing inventory allowed, but inventory confirmed prior to competition begins.

    (that 'confirmed prior to start' would prevent entrants announcing last second additions just to jump ahead in the closing stages).

  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    First up Happy New Year folks. I hope you didn't spend your investment pennies last night ;-)

    We now have number 8! @CupIsHalfEmpty confirmed yesterday that he is in and becomes the first Canadian player :-)

    @legomatt as if I could ignore you. I'm not in agreement to a two trophy approach though. I prefer simplicity and more importantly an all for one approach. It would essentially be two separate contests and it's likely to split competitors between the two.

    12 days to go so we can get these rules nailed down. Hopefully more people will come to play and the portfolio building, discussion and a little bit of mockery can start ;-)

    legomatt
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,543
    I didn't mean to run as two competitions, just that people might have 'X' and 'Y' subtotals, arrived at from their 'in-comp' and 'pre-comp inventory' sales.

    Tracking subtotals would enable people to see where they stand relative to beginnings, and so not be put off if starting from scratch. That subtotal is a personal 'competition' you could try to win (even if that amount is not officially recognised with any prize).

    You'd still just award one single winner to the highest grand total, but I suspect people at the end would be interested to know (out of curiosity) how that total was arrived at. Similar to watching monthly 'winners', its a nominal title, but interesting all the same. Keeping subtotals would enable that element of competition for people with no prior stock.

    However, I also realised it's all a somewhat moot issue, as it's not possible to substantiate purchases. Ultimately if somebody wanted a title badly enough they'd be able to buy it with whatever the extra donation required. I'm not saying anybody would, but they could in theory, which makes everything i said... well, pointless. And so I ignore myself. :oP

    But for what they're worth, it's statistics really. People love statistics, monthly scores, most profitable single sale, most expensive purchase, most items sold, etc. All nominal titles, perhaps, but interesting all the same. The most interesting stat would be 'in-comp sales' for 2014.

    :o)

    Righty-oh, I'm butting out now. Best of luck to all!
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    So far the following have been brave and said yes I'm in....

    @LegoFanTexas USA (Complete with new avatar)
    @Basta Australia
    @simon_ratcliffe_101 South Africa
    @legoprods Spain (I think)
    @leego76 UK
    @wagnerml2 USA
    @rocao USA
    @CupIsHalfEmpty Canada

    Still plenty of time to add yourself to this wall of fame, or is it shame? ;-)

  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    Should we all have some sort of black mark against our avatars? Or a angel on one side ("it's for charity, mate") and a devil on the other (accursed reselling)??!!
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    ^ Just look at mine. You're dancing with the devil already ;-)
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    Actually I think rogues gallery could be the correct name. There is a new addition to. @coachie is joining the fun :-)
    coachie
  • xeeeejxeeeej Member Posts: 71
    I really like the essence of the contest. But I can't help but wonder if the participants will truly compete to 100% of their abilities under the current format.

    I could probably turn an initial $160 investment into $5K profit by the end of the year by turning over inventory quickly. But do I really want to donate $5K to charity? Don't get me wrong, I donate a lot to multiple charitable organizations each year. But not $5K, sorry.

    I think if we really want people to compete 100% and go all out, there should be a cap or percentage on the donation. For example, I would pledge to donate 5% of the profits by year end. 5% of that $5K is still $250.

    Otherwise, I think you'll see people just making an initial investment, sitting on the sets, maybe flipping once or twice, then making the same $250 donation at year end. Yawn.

    If you want people to really compete, go for a donation %.
  • legoprodslegoprods Member Posts: 445
    edited January 2014
    leego76 said:

    Should we all have some sort of black mark against our avatars? Or a angel on one side ("it's for charity, mate") and a devil on the other (accursed reselling)??!!

    Though we also need to have some Sympathy for the Devil. :-)

    @kev South of Spain indeed.

    @xeeeej I might as well give you all my retirement cash. At that rate keeping the 30% it'd be more than what most banks can offer.

    I'm not going all-out 100% effort reselling. Just going to do a couple experiments that I wanted to do... with the excuse that it's for charity (a very good one!).

    ---

    But, do we really need to compete against LFT? Maybe you could start by reselling the amazon bears. ;-)
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    An interesting concept but I think the format is essentially flawed for a true competition. One could show quite big profits by using their quick flip sets for the competition. The question is not the profit one can make but the amount of money one is willing to donate.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Member Posts: 1,376
    @xeeej - If you can turn $160 into 5k, come on in! I think it will be a bit more difficult than that. I usually don't flip something until I can at least double my money. Those types of flips will be more difficult here as you only have 12 months for the set to appreciate. It's more about getting them at a discount and turning them quickly.

    As for me, I look at this as a donation of $160 and then a donation of my time. The money that my time generates in making the flips is what will get donated. The money will be a product of that time spent. Frankly, I'm surprised that the contestant field is not bigger.

    It won't be hard to track mine, I plan on posting everything I do so people can follow along. I also have a few strategies to maybe speed things up a bit to maximize the flips. I'm looking forward to it.
    margot
  • BastaBasta Member Posts: 1,259
    edited January 2014
    xeeeej said:

    I really like the essence of the contest. But I can't help but wonder if the participants will truly compete to 100% of their abilities under the current format.

    I could probably turn an initial $160 investment into $5K profit by the end of the year by turning over inventory quickly. But do I really want to donate $5K to charity? Don't get me wrong, I donate a lot to multiple charitable organizations each year. But not $5K, sorry.

    I think if we really want people to compete 100% and go all out, there should be a cap or percentage on the donation. For example, I would pledge to donate 5% of the profits by year end. 5% of that $5K is still $250.

    Otherwise, I think you'll see people just making an initial investment, sitting on the sets, maybe flipping once or twice, then making the same $250 donation at year end. Yawn.

    Ok, I'm not sure what numbers people are expecting but I think $250 each would be awsome. That's $2250 donated with just the 9 we have now. Sure more would be good but 2k+ is not exactly small change.

    I'm only a hobby seller and use proceeds to fund my hobbies. Most of my Lego sales are quick flips and I do plan to continue that this year in the Challenge. With this kind of reselling the amount I make is dictated somewhat by luck as it depends on what items I find and at what discounts, so yes if I find a great barging that could earn me a quick $100 (doesn't happen very often) I'm going to need to decide if I'm going to buy it with my challenge bankroll or my own as unfortunately 80% off clearance Lego, or finding a retired popular set at RRP or below is normally very limited.

    Basically I don't think it matters if people give 100% or not, just being involved and rasing even a little money is enough IMO.
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited January 2014
    I think starting with a new purchase is in the truest spirit of the structure of the competition so that's what I'll be doing. However, I won't begrudge a participant if they use previous stock and have higher starting capital, because it's all for a good cause.

    I'm fine with crowkillers spending his capital on parts and selling MOCs. I think he'd be among the favorites to win this competition because of the added value of his craftsmanship.

    How do people want to handle the following?
    - (free) promotional items
    - tax considerations
    - indirect discounts not taken from the set (i.e. VIP points, TRU rewards, credit card cashback)

    Promotion items: I'm leaning towards thinking they should be allowed if they are obtained in 2014 AND were obtained during an investment transaction. So if your capital investment is at the LEGO store and yields you a free polybag, you may sell that polybag and the profits go towards the challenge. However, I don't think we should be able to include other freebies at a $0 charge.

    Tax considerations: Some of us are tax-exempt resellers and some are not. Our tax rates differ with our locales. Some of us live in states where tax is not collected on Amazon purchases, and some do not (I know they should be reported at year end, but I think this point still stands). My opinion is that we should count the pre-tax cost of the item against the investment amount to keep the playing field level.

    Indirect discounts: I think factoring most of these into the competition is too complicated. The lone exception I can think of is that "Free gift cards with purchase" should be allowed if that gift card is used to reinvest in LEGO for the compeition, i.e. $150 = Pet Shop + $20 gift card; $20 gift card spent on City vehicle. Both sets are competition inventory. I'm less inclined to say that one can just say that $130 is the cost basis of Pet Shop, though.
  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    Agree on all of those, keeps it fairly straight forward and transparent!
  • legogregorslegogregors Member Posts: 402
    PM sent, this sounds great! Any chance this can be renamed 2014 Fairy Brick Challenge? It sounds more positive!
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    I can let you all know that @legogregors is the latest addition to the fun for position number 10 and as there have been no objections (quite rightly in my opinion) I would love to hear from @Crowkillers to make him number 11.

    The post from @rocao sums things up pretty well. Very much what was in my head and probably everyone else's. I expect competition but let's all still have fun. Without the fun this just becomes work. That could be my British just happy to take part attitude coming through ;-)

    In response to the eye watering numbers quoted by @xeeej well that wasn't what I was expecting. I thought folks might double their money in a year if we were lucky! For now though I'm comfortable with the structure without changing things to a % system.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas Member Posts: 8,404

    Hmm, should I start with Galaxy Squad sets or not? Hmm...

    Why? Don't you have any more #41999? ;-)
    Funny, very funny...

    Actually, no, I sold mine two weeks after they came out.
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,543
    edited January 2014
    xeeeej said:

    I could probably turn an initial $160 investment into $5K profit by the end of the year by turning over inventory quickly.

    Say, Whaaaaaaat?!?
    *cup of tea evacuates via the nostrils and meets computer screen*

    My mind is well and truly boggled. $5K from a $160 investment in one year, just by quick-flipping... Utterly utterly mind-blowing... Are we going to the same stores? Amazing, truly amazing.
    8oO
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited January 2014
    @xeeej: does that mean you'd participate if you were asked to just contribute the higher of: 5% of your profit or $250?
  • xeeeejxeeeej Member Posts: 71
    *Hands @legomatt a tissue*

    @rocoa - Deal. I'm in. I probably won't turn over the sets enough to get to the $5k (as I certainly will net more $ by holding them longer). But sure, I will guarantee at least $250 donated.

    SirKev, shoot me the details. Thanks!
    legomattSirKevbags
  • margotmargot Member Posts: 2,308
    edited January 2014
    ^rocoa rhymes with cocoa, but it's rocao which rhymes with what? cow?
  • xeeeejxeeeej Member Posts: 71
    (He short changed me an "e" in xeeeej, so, turnabout...)
    margot
  • legogregorslegogregors Member Posts: 402
    Welcome xeeeej! Terms and conditions aside this will be big fun and for a great cause!
  • BastaBasta Member Posts: 1,259
    Lets not all get too hung up on the T&C, I don't think we need a Cap. Each of us will make our own decisions on the amount of time we spend on the challenge and that's all it needs to be.

    It's all for a good cause so let's just have some fun.

    legoprodsindigoboxEKSamSirKevbagssidersddlegomattwagnerml2LegoFanTexas
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    @xeeeej: Welcome aboard! :)

    I don't think anyone is going to hold you to a minimum donation. That said, your estimate of a probable $5k profit is so far beyond $250, I figured that you wouldn't bat an eye, so kudos to you.
  • BOBJACK_JACKBOBBOBJACK_JACKBOB Member Posts: 554
    Will there be a thread in the selling category for this competition? I think people would like to buy if they know it's benefiting Fairy Bricks.

    Rather than all the re-sellers having their own selling thread, could they be consolidated into one? Of course this would only apply if this forum is where some sets will be sold. Not being a re-seller, I don't know if there's money to be made on here.

    Bob
  • scrumperscrumper Member Posts: 317
    Ok @SirKevBags, I'm not a reseller but your 'British attitude' comment has done its job. You can add my name to the list of entrants and I'll accept my humiliation at the hands of the experienced resellers with a stiff upper lip.
    SirKevbagsGothamConstructionCo
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    @xeeeej and @scrumper welcome aboard. I think that makes a dirty dozen now :-)
  • 111ins111ins Member Posts: 265
    OK, one more, just sold a bigger set today so I have some money to play with.
    Does this make me lucky 13?
    SirKevbags
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,543
    ^Just don't be the last to leave the dining table... or was it the first? Either way, leave dinner somewhere in the middle, just to be safe. :oP
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    Great to have you @111ins :-) Could we make it to twenty people before the week is out?
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Member Posts: 1,376
    @SirKevBags - When is the official kick off date. I was going to declare my starting stock and get moving, but I certainly don't want to jump the gun.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    @wagnerml2 January 12th is the closing date to get involved. I'll publish the full list then and folks can start the chatter about what they have. Nothing to stop you working as you already have been of course. Same goes for selling.
  • scrumperscrumper Member Posts: 317
    wagnerml2 said:

    @SirKevBags - When is the official kick off date. I was going to declare my starting stock and get moving, but I certainly don't want to jump the gun.

    There's an official kick off date!
    Ha ha! Consider the gun thoroughly jumped.

    wagnerml2
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited January 2014
    Since some people started already, how about we use Jan 1st as the start date?
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    Any date now is just window dressing. So long as I know who is in by the 12th it's all good.
  • ecmo47ecmo47 Member Posts: 2,101
    I'm a little late to this party, but sign me up! I'll see what I can do with the talents entrusted to me.
    SirKevbags
  • ecmo47ecmo47 Member Posts: 2,101
    (Also I was able to round up some good "seed" sets for a TRU Express that is closing on Saturday.)
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    @ecmo47 You're in with loads of time to spare :-) Welcome to the fun.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    Last call today folks. I didn't set a time, just said today. Cut off is likely when I go to bed. If the second NFL playoff game is close I'll be up later. We 14 players now, all working towards taking that trophy, having fun and generating funds for Fairy Bricks :-)

    Still time for 15, 16................
    LostInTranslation
  • flyingpigflyingpig Member Posts: 119
    Oh why not. Do you accept LEGO donations in lieu of cash? Particularly boxed sets with moderate cosmetic damage.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    @flyingpig yes in general we accept sets for distribution. Damage isn't an issue so long as things are still sealed and complete. Some would say after one of our stickers are placed on a box they are all damaged anyway ;-)

  • RedBaronRedBaron Member Posts: 6
    What the heck. I'll throw my hat in the ring. I don't know if I can turn plastic in gold, but maybe fairy dust. Maybe I will learn a thing or two along the way.
  • LegoMom1LegoMom1 Member Posts: 651

    @flyingpig yes in general we accept sets for distribution. Damage isn't an issue so long as things are still sealed and complete. Some would say after one of our stickers are placed on a box they are all damaged anyway ;-)

    And others might say they're made more valuable. ;)
    leego76LostInTranslationSirKevbagscarlqcheshirecat
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Administrator, Moderator Posts: 5,234

    Last call today folks. I didn't set a time, just said today. Cut off is likely when I go to bed. If the second NFL playoff game is close I'll be up later.

    Here's hoping you stay up late! San Diego Super Chargers....
    LostInTranslationSirKevbags
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    Technically my day is done but still watching the game and it's still the 12th somewhere. 3:01 on the game clock.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    And that's that. I'll put everyone on the list in the morning. I suppose you could still sneak in before I post the runners and riders.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Member Posts: 4,027
    edited January 2014
    So this is the final list of people crazy or brave enough to take part in this fun, all for one contest. Well done folks. In my mind I hoped for eight people so we have by far exceeded that :-)

    @LegoFanTexas Mordor
    @Basta Australia
    @simon_ratcliffe_101 South Africa
    @legoprods Spain
    @leego76 UK
    @wagnerml2 USA
    @rocao USA
    @CupIsHalfEmpty Canada
    @xeeeej USA
    @legogregors USA
    @scrumper UK
    @111ins Canada
    @ecmo47 USA?
    @flyingpig USA?
    @RedBaron USA?
    @coachie UK

    The exchange rates are as follows £1/$1.6 USD/$1.8 CAN/$1.85 AUS/17 ZAR

    The leader board will be published on the last Friday of every month. It will be displayed as total PROFIT over and above your initial investment money. So obviously someone could have £40 profit in January but £0 in February if it is re invested and sets not sold. If you can let me have those details via pm by the last Thursday so I can do the conversion and announce the leader board on the Friday. December will run as a shorter month and I'll announce those dates closer to the time.

    Thanks again everyone for taking part in the spirit as intended. Good luck everyone. What are you holding right now? What strategy will you take?

    Game on!
    rocaoGothamConstructionColegomattLegoboyrancorbaitsidersddLegoFanTexasMorkMan
  • BrikingBriking Member Posts: 766
    Did @coachie not make the weigh-in? Or has there been foul play in the stables?
    Legoboy
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