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Royal Mail

MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
This discussion was created from comments split from: Lego 10216 Winter Village Bakery - £44.99.

Comments

  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    edited October 2013
    Well it turned up, but of course Royal.Mail being the incompetent jobsworths they are drove it all the way into town 30mins away and are only open until 2pm for collections so I can pay them another £1.50 to do their job and take it to the post office 2 secs away that they had to drive past to take it into town or I can do their job for them and pick it up on their only late night on Wednesday or wait until the weekend when I'm home because of course they won't redeliver tomorrow when I'm home.

    Thanks Groupon for fulfilling a great deal when I was skeptical, screw you Royal Mail for being the worst courier company going.
  • joel4motionjoel4motion United KingdomMember Posts: 959
    edited October 2013
    Xefan said:

    Well it turned up, but of course Royal.Mail being the incompetent jobsworths they are....Royal Mail for being the worst courier company going.

    Not really the thread for this but wait until your mail service is privatised before complaining. We'll be lucky if we get mail three times a week, parcels will go to depots that are miles away and the service will be awful. Royal Mail standards have dropped over the last few years but imagine a world where TNT are responsible for your everyday mail....

    On a more thread related note, I missed out due to being out of the country for the last two weeks so if anyone has a spare, I am happy to pay a bit extra for your time and trouble.
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    That's exactly what they have done joel, dropped it somewhere miles away, rather than the local post office. I also do only seem to get mail about 3 times a week, certainly 1st class isn't next day any more and hasn't been for a long long time so it sounds like privatisation will make zero difference.

    If nothing else it'll hopefully mean no more full time contracts with only part time hours so that they're open later than 2pm on weekdays like all other couriers so I can at least collect the parcel myself.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,651
    Xefan said:

    Well it turned up, but of course Royal.Mail being the incompetent jobsworths they are drove it all the way into town 30mins away and are only open until 2pm for collections so I can pay them another £1.50 to do their job and take it to the post office 2 secs away that they had to drive past to take it into town or I can do their job for them and pick it up on their only late night on Wednesday or wait until the weekend when I'm home because of course they won't redeliver tomorrow when I'm home.

    Thanks Groupon for fulfilling a great deal when I was skeptical, screw you Royal Mail for being the worst courier company going.

    I don't see why they are incompetent. They did exactly what their job specifies. Their job is not to deliver to a local post office, it is to deliver to you. Were you in? No. Can you collect it from their office? Yes. Can you rearrange delivery on a day that suits you? Yes. Can you rearrange delivery to the local post office, incurring more work for another person thus get charged a fee for it? Yes.

    First class is normally next day, but there is no guarantee. I posted a first class BL order yesterday, and the buyer has let me know it was delivered today. If you want guaranteed next day delivery, you can of course pay more for it.
    TheCableGuyPaperballpark
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    edited October 2013
    Every other courier leaves it with a neighbour, let's you pick up from their depot at a decent hour, or tries to deliver next day. Even their other courier service ParcelForce manages to drop it at the post office with no problem whatsoever. Royal Mail fails at all of these things, that's why they're incompetent.

    They're the only courier company nowadays that can't get a parcel to someone who works full time or provide a reasonable method for that person to pick it up. That is again, why they are incompetent. Every other company manages this just fine.

    There isn't a single other courier company that fails as badly as Royal Mail at doing the very job you specified - getting the parcel to the recipient.

    The job of a courier is to get a parcel to a recipient, this just seems all too difficult for Royal Mail, yet no one else.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,651
    edited October 2013
    ^ Really? Tell that to the people that have had parcels left on their doorstep in the rain, in bins, chucked over fences, or parcels that have been kicked or dropped and split open.

    They do exactly as they say they will do. They try to deliver during their working hours and if not, they do not give your parcel to someone that has not been authorized to take it for you, but return it to their distribution depot. They will then arrange to deliver it on another day of your choice if you contact them. Or you can pay to upgrade the service so they do deliver it to a local PO, where you can collect it.

    Would you prefer that they charged everyone more so that they included taking it to a PO after a failed delivery, even if that service is not needed in many cases?
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    As I said, I'd have no problem with any of that if they:

    a) Tried again the next day like they used to and like everyone else does rather than forcing you to wait another day again which may not be convenient (I was in today, working from home, so could've taken it, but not tomorrow which is the earliest they'll redeliver)

    b) Worked normal hours like every other courier company so I could pick it up after work any day of the week

    c) Gave a service like DPD that tells you they're coming and lets you rearrange before they even attempt redelivery so you can arrange delivery a day later

    I shouldn't have to pay to upgrade the service to be delivered to a post office that they're passing anyway, that's not an upgrade. Note also that many other courier companies now also allow you to have your parcel deposited at a number of local drop offs for free.

    There's no escaping the fact Royal Mail work stupid hours relative to other companies that make it impossible for working people to collect their parcels at their convenience, and there's no escaping the fact that charging people for delivery to the PO, something their sister company and other courier companies do not for the same/equivalent service. I know you made up an absurd excuse about how it's work for the PO staff but that's really stupid because it's also work for the depot staff, and the PO staff are normally glad of the extra footfall anyway which means they have a chance of selling other products to people going in. It's a money grab and nothing more. It's not even consistent, every once in a while they DO drop it at the post office so it seems to largely depend on how much of a jobsworth the guy driving the van on that particular day is but whatever the reason it's still utterly incompetent as the job of courier is simply to get a parcel to a recipient, making that unnecessarily awkward for the recipient is equal to incompetence, there's no escaping that.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,651
    You do know that the Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd are different companies, and that individual post offices are often franchises, don't you? Would you want to do extra work for a different company for no extra pay? That doesn't seem absurd to me.
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    Yes, that's why ParcelForce make them take it by gunpoint, because they wouldn't do it otherwise.

    The fact is, most post office workers aren't so feeble that simply passing a parcel over to someone is a big deal that requires payment. Certainly the owner of our village post office has no problem with people actually coming into her post office given that it was passed down to her by her parents and the last thing she wants is for people to be going to an RM depot instead losing her custom and sending her bankrupt. Any PO owner that doesn't have plans to go bankrupt will feel the same given the rate that PO's have been closing down. The sensible ones that want to stay in business understand that they need to remain relevant and losing footfall doesn't serve that purpose.

    But there's actually a bigger reason why your argument makes no sense though and that's that the £1.50 charge doesn't go to the Post Office anyway, it goes to Royal Mail, the obligation on the Post Office to hold parcels was determined as part of the 10 year agreement pinned down last year, an agreement formed for precisely the reasons mentioned above - the Post Office needs to remain relevant and working with Royal Mail is a major part of that.

    So regardless, it's obvious you're just being argumentative as usual, trying to make up justifications that make no sense for nothing other than the sake of arguing, but it ultimately doesn't really matter, because the people whose opinion does matter in this particular case have long decided Royal Mail needs to modernise and up it's game precisely because of these sorts of problems that make it second rate relative to it's competitors. If you don't like that then it's not me or anyone here you need to convince that it's just perfect as is and couldn't possibly improve.

    It's probably going to be forced to change one way or another though whether you like it or not, and that's because it needs to.
  • morezonemorezone Member Posts: 207
    I agree with what @CCC has to say. Royal Mail is subsidised and loses millions a year. They could do extra leg work but someone has to pay for it. Royal Mail was never designed to handle parcels and it's only recently they've made significant changes to postage rates and even cap max weights and sizes which then have to go by Parcel Force.

    My local PO won't even accept Parcel Force parcels because they don't actually have the room to store them.

    My City Link driver will leave parcels with neighbours if he can, but never puts a card through my door and I only know when a neighbour knocks to tell me. My CitySprint driver just leaves them in my back garden under the table. Yodel will either throw it over the fence, leave it under my van or even just on my door step. Royal Mail takes mine back to the depot and Parcel Force takes it to a larger PO.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,651
    Xefan said:


    So regardless, it's obvious you're just being argumentative as usual, trying to make up justifications that make no sense for nothing other than the sake of arguing, but it ultimately doesn't really matter, because the people whose opinion does matter in this particular case have long decided Royal Mail needs to modernise and up it's game precisely because of these sorts of problems that make it second rate relative to it's competitors. If you don't like that then it's not me or anyone here you need to convince that it's just perfect as is and couldn't possibly improve.

    It's probably going to be forced to change one way or another though whether you like it or not, and that's because it needs to.

    I'm not being "argumentative as usual", I am pointing out that they do what they say they will do, as part of their service agreement, and that they do not do extra services that you think they should include for free. You have called them incompetent jobsworths for not doing something the way you want it done, yet they have provided the service they say that they will provide. I don't believe that a courier should give a parcel to a neighbour without your consent. I don't agree that they should leave them on the doorstop, without your consent. If you consent to that, and there is a problem (such as the parcel going missing) then by giving consent, you should be liable for the loss, not the courier. I agree, RM does need to modernise. There are more things it can do and it is far from perfect. But that will come at a cost.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton UKMember Posts: 2,966
    Most people's perceptions of courier companies boil down to the decisions made by the individual doing the delivery, which is why opinions vary so massively.

    I've had a Parcel Force guy drop a parcel on my doorstep without even ringing the doorbell. When I checked the online tracking, he'd forged my signature. I expect that was the individual at fault rather than the company as a whole, and I have no doubts that some people elsewhere in the country have had great experiences with Parcel Force.

    HDNL left a parcel in my bin without leaving a note to tell me. I found it a week later.

    Another courier threw a box over a 7ft fence, smashing everything inside it.

    And then there was the courier who tried to deliver to my home while I wasn't in, but he recognised my name and so drove to my workplace to deliver it instead. That's got to have been the best!
    cheshirecatArielaJoseph
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    ^ Spot on. Its almost always about the delivery guy/girl. I'm very lucky with ours they're pretty much all great. My worst experience was a parcel force guy leaving about £1500 worth of kitchen appliance outside the front of the wrong house (half way down our street) and then forging my signature. Other than that, they're friendly, careful, use their head etc. We had a phase of them not leaving notes when left with neighbours but that appears to have stopped now too.

    That said the RM needs to modernise. Depots closing at 2pm is not ok these days - for either collection or arranging redelivery. They need to be open until at least 6pm so that you can collect or even just to arrange next day delivery. Its not as if our post is delivered early enough these days that they can argue that point. Almost always about 1pm weekdays now for us and a bit earilier on Saturdays. We also have suspiciously little post on a Monday now.
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    @CCC you can argue all you want about what you've arbitrarily decided is and isn't part of their service agreement or job but the fact still remains that what you're claiming is and isn't okay is much worse for working people than what their competition offers in terms of getting hold of your parcel.

    No matter how you try and spin it, that's just the way it is.

    I didn't mind when Royal Mail just tried again a day later, I didn't mind when they consistently just dropped it at my local post office, but now it's just a nightmare if something is coming via them because I have to go out my way to get hold of it which defeats the object of a courier. It's a step backwards from the whole point of online shopping - convenience.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,651
    Xefan said:

    @CCC you can argue all you want about what you've arbitrarily decided is and isn't part of their service agreement or job but the fact still remains that what you're claiming is and isn't okay is much worse for working people than what their competition offers in terms of getting hold of your parcel.

    I haven't arbitrarily decided what their service agreement is. If you work and prefer not to go to depot to collect a parcel, then pay the extra and collect local.
  • rchaddrchadd Member Posts: 187
    edited October 2013
    Every package RM allegedly tries to deliver to me ends up going back to the depot for me to go an pick up anyway. The local PO is closer so would prefer having to pick it up from there. The post office is still the only place where you have Russia style queues out the door when you wait to post a package. They are now too busy offering banking/car tax/holiday currency/passport applications rather than their core service. The cashiers appear to be on a constant go slow and probably wouldn't even hold down a job in a real commercial business.

    Having said that they are better than Yodel! at least I can go and pick up rather than make arrangements to stay home hoping they will decide to turn up sometime within a 9 hour time slot!
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited October 2013
    I've never had Royal Mail abandon a package outside my front door. Other delivery companies have done this. Whether it's been raining or not. The most notable occasions have been with a Haunted House (thoroughly soaked) and latterly a #41999 (rescued by neighbours). Or delivery companies dumping a package in the wheely bin outside my house. That package was rescued when I phoned Waitrose and they said "but we delivered this 3 days ago".
  • CaptAPJTCaptAPJT Member Posts: 223
    I do have to agree that some courier companies make it much more difficult for you than others and it may just be down to the individuals involved. Personally I think leaving a parcel with a neighbour and leaving a note should be the "standard" minimum level of service. I think we've all been angered by different firms, RM or otherwise. In the past I've come home to find parcels left in plain view on my porch, fair game for any opportunistic thief. At the same time I've driven 30mins to collect items from a depot only to be informed that they're out for re-delivery!

    Now in Austria I even have one company who I'm certain just deliver "failed delivery" forms, I've been in all day and when I check the mail find that they apparently "tried" to deliver, maybe if they knocked on the door it would help their attempt! (Sorry getting ranty) fortunately their office is just a 10minute walk away, so perhaps that explains their laziness?

    I'm sure there's some form of couriers code of conduct that describes the minimum standards required, some fail to attain that standard while others go the extra mile. I'm sure this is mostly down to the individual and not the company.
  • AySeaAySea Member Posts: 65
    On the subject of offices closing at 1:30pm or 2pm, I agree, that is a stupid time to close for people with full time jobs to be able to collect stuff. However, the office staff usually have to be there to start prepping that days mail at 5am, so they have been there for a full 8 hours or more by the time everyone else is going off to lunch. Unless Royal Mail hire extra staff in to cover the office in the afternoon, then it's unlikely to change.
  • woony2woony2 UKMember Posts: 336
    Both the Royal Mail collection offices in Coventry are open 7am -7pm (8pm on Wed) in the week and 7am -2pm on Saturdays. More than enough time for most people to collect at leisure. There's also plenty of free parking now that they have moved from the city centre. As these are both new sorting offices maybe it's they way the others will go in the future.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited October 2013
    That was the case at the big depot in cardiff too about 15 years ago! - it was when we moved to the burbs the depot was tiny and it shut at 2pm. Now moved to the cheshire countryside its the same here to.
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 816
    ^ I work in between 2 towns and the workforce is primarily from those towns. I have no problem in my town, late openings and Saturday until 2pm. But the other town which is 5 times larger than mine, that shuts 2pm weekdays. It's strange that it's the opposite of your situation @chesirecat. I wonder what basis they are deciding the opening hours on?
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,149
    Strength of CWU membership combined with determination of workers most likely.

    A lot of it is probably historic too. If they've always shut at 2pm you'll probably have a hard time getting staff to accept change to shift patterns and if they have the CWU behind them it's probably a fight no managers want to take up if they can avoid doing so.

    This is largely why governments privatise, so they can let the shareholders have the fight instead because large investment institutions have no care for what the public think of them on that sort of issue. I imagine a good proportion of shares that we're sold by members of the public on Friday are already in these institutions hands as they'll have been the ones doing the bulk of the buying.
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