Only 1 VW Camper poly per household via [email protected]

Hardrada

rocao said:

If the buyer is aware of the "1 per household" policy, and they've already placed an order and presumably received one, can they successfully argue that they were enticed?

I think yes. TLG has a very long track record of ignoring their own terms and conditions. So you can easily argue that you thought the cart at checkout overrides the small print. Because it always did before.

Brickarmor

One per order, while supplies last = win/win.

If anyone is making multiple orders and repeatedly returns the items but keeps the promos, they should be immediately and irrevocably banned. That should be easier to enact than anything else, for surely the list of items returned to LBRI is a fraction of those sold.

vwong19

I don't mind Lego placing restrictions on their promos. Rules are rules, but I do not respect Lego's fine print since they do not enforce them. Also even if they did enforce their policy, I would circumvent their ridiculous "1 per household" policy by NOT using my VIP account when I'm at the store or online. The 5% "reward" would not be worth the more valuable promo in some cases.

princedraven

Is there any chance we can drop some of the legal hypotheticals?
If someone takes it legal then great lets discuss, but we all know it will not happen so its a completely fruitless debate.
And @vwong19 are you just trying to wind people up by saying you would circumvent their policy?

dougts

here's how I see it:

1) LEGO has until very recently been very loose and liberal with handing out multiple freebies to users - same purchase, multiple purchases, online, in store - didn't much matter. Over time, this conditioned buyers that this was the norm, and it became what was expected going forward.
2) LEGO decided to tighten up on the enforcement end of the policy. They are certainly well within their rights to do so, and I don't really see anyone seriously suggesting otherwise. No one is entitled to multiple freebies. However, because of the conditioned expectation LEGO has created over time, it is understandable that some people would react unfavorably to this change in enforcement, and that it can reasonably be seen as a negative customer experience, especially in light of:
3) LEGO has done a pretty poor job of keeping it's online shopping cart, order placement, and confirmation software processes up to date with current norms and standards, and has been wildly inconsistent in it's application of the policies.

In my view, a smarter move by LEGO would have been to first update their ordering systems to not add (or to remove) items to the cart that should not be allowed, better handle account limits, and other improvements; and then to start cracking down on enforcement, rather than the other way around. This would result in a better customer experience with clearer consumer expectations.

vwong19

I strongly oppose the "1 per household" policy and am still in disbelief that this was in effect at any point until this thread came up. Now that I know, I will NOT be making multiple orders online during a given promotion with the expectation of getting multiple freebies. However I will go to my Lego Store more often now, until they start cracking down there as well. The only way that I can see them tracking how many freebies that I have received historically is to use my VIP information. When they start to penalize me for being a VIP, then I will simply stop using it.

If Lego is serious about their "1 per household" policy, then they are going to have to enforce it by giving out freebies only to VIP customers and somehow eliminate people with multiple VIP accounts. They could also reduce the period of the promotions to 1-2 days to eliminate repeat buying.

The most times that I take advantage of any promo is 5, but on average, I want 3 copies of the SW or Super Heroes sets (1 for me, 1 for my kid, and the rest to sell/trade or keep unopened).

How about 3 per household limit. I could live with that and I wouldn't have to play games with TLG.

Legoboy

^ You sound really really angry about it all.

vwong19

^ Not pleased about the future prospects of collecting Lego, but not the worst thing that could happen. :)

princedraven

The problem is that everyones needs/wants are different, some people are happy with a limit of 1 as it gives them a better chance of getting 1, others want 2-3 for their kids or collection, some want 10+ either for a big display or resale or whatever.
So what happens is that they don't limit and people moan they couldn't get it because resellers bought them all. They limit it and people moan that they can only get one.
The only answer in my eyes is to honour the limits that Lego put in place and then look elsewhere if I want more.
I have 2 boys and a wife who loves camper vans. I would ideally like 4, one for each of us, but at the end of the day I accept its a limited freebie and they want it to be available to as many as possible.

One thing I learnt recently is that Lego comes apart ;-) So you know what, both my boys and my wife will get a chance to build and play with the Camper.

cheshirecat

dougts said:

Over time, this conditioned buyers that this was the norm, and it became what was expected going forward.

This reminds me of moving in with my girlfriend and then getting married. I had been conditioned yet I still had to change my expectations. And bitching and moaning definately didnt help. ;-)

vwong19

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I also learned that it is good to have a backup (more than I set) and second kids don't like to share minifigures (referring to me and my kid).

Ironically I don't care about the VW set, although my initials are on the vehicle.

If they truly limit freebies to 1 per household, then I can imagine the price of these freebies rising in the secondary market, since there would be more buyers and fewer sellers... isn't that bad also?

cheshirecat

vwong19 said:

... I also learned that it is good to have a backup...

I really hope that was in response to my post!

Being serious though, given we've heard from multiple sources that they want/need to limit this promo, what do you think will be TLGs reaction to running out early, seeing people place 10 orders at just over the amount (which also multiplies up their shipping costs that they've just made free) and having people return parcels because they didnt get a poly. The answer is, as is so often the case, the entire community will loose out.

margot

^It's halfway through September and they haven't run out yet so they don't seem to be particularly limited. There has been plenty of time to get one for anyone that was interested. Not to mention that it's not the first time they've run a promo so pretty sure they know what to expect by now.

Phonebooth

maques said:

Phonebooth said:

^abusing/exploiting... All the same to me. Congrats on scamming the system.

So I will get 100 of my friends to make 1-1 orders with LEGO and then fully comply with their fine print and not abusing their [borked] system.
.

While you're at it, have your friends and family order a few #41999.

princedraven

margot said:

^It's halfway through September and they haven't run out yet

Isn't that a sign that the 1 per household rule is working? ;-)

LegoFanTexas

rocao said:

I'm about to head out of the house so I only have time to respond to this one point right now.

If the buyer is aware of the "1 per household" policy, and they've already placed an order and presumably received one, can they successfully argue that they were enticed?

Can they argue it?

Yes

Will they win that argument?

Maybe, depends on the courtroom, judge, and jury that is involved. :)

Xefan

rocao said:

If the buyer is aware of the "1 per household" policy, and they've already placed an order and presumably received one, can they successfully argue that they were enticed?

Yes because the contents of their basket contradict that policy. The basket tells them it's part of the basket and hence overall price before you confirm payment.

It's not unreasonable to think the policy is wrong and that you will get it given that it's in your basket, that the rule was never enforced before and only selectively enforced even now.

maques

Phonebooth said:

maques said:

Phonebooth said:

^abusing/exploiting... All the same to me. Congrats on scamming the system.

So I will get 100 of my friends to make 1-1 orders with LEGO and then fully comply with their fine print and not abusing their [borked] system.
.

While you're at it, have your friends and family order a few #41999.

Guess I should have. But it's late now. Next time Gadget, next time....

The 41999 having produced in limited number of 20.000, being ~200 USD a piece and being sold out in days (with the limit of 2 per "household") compared to the T1 camper van with less production costs, giving out freely for orders 1/3 of the price of the 41999 and randomly enforcing the limit, still being available in the middle of the month gives me the feeling that was produced like, what, 200.000 or even more pcs?

cheshirecat

If anyone wants extra VW Polys without any worry im auctioning 4 with ALL proceeds going to kevbags brick fairy charity. More details here: http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/12262/charity-auction-4x-vw-camper-vans-in-support-of-brick-fairy

wagnerml2

LegoFanTexas said:

rocao said:

I'm about to head out of the house so I only have time to respond to this one point right now.

If the buyer is aware of the "1 per household" policy, and they've already placed an order and presumably received one, can they successfully argue that they were enticed?

Can they argue it?

Yes

Will they win that argument?

Maybe, depends on the courtroom, judge, and jury that is involved. :)

Just remember that most consumer litigation does not go before a jury. It only is heard by a judge. This is extremely dangerous for companies because good plaintiffs lawyers look for a venue with liberal judges that tend to award big verdicts for plaintiffs. This puts the company at a disadvantage at the start. Lego can be sued anywhere I the US because they sell to all 50 states. All a good plaintiffs lawyer needs to do is find someone in a liberal venue who had a CV on an invoice but didn't receive it.

Again, not advocating it, just stating a fact.

juggles7

The Lego store that I visit never ran out of Volkswagen camper polybags, and had "lots of them" left when the promotion was over. Shame on them for being so stingy.

stevemack

Are stores still giving them out now? I know with the Jor-el polybags they were being given away a week after still as the store had plenty of them!

princedraven

^ So it would have clearly been a much smarter move to run out half way through the month?
Or are you saying they should have managed it so that the very last one they had was given out to the final customer on the final day of the promotion?

legogregors

Did anyone who put in a 2nd, 3rd, etc. order during the VW promotion period NOT receive the polybag even after it showed up in their cart at checkout? I thought I remembered several people who were going to try it even after the initial warning signs but I did not notice any updates. Thanks,

joel4motion

I didn't get a second despite it showing in my cart. Wasn't overly fussed, as long as the rules are enforced across the board I can live with that.

morezone

I made 4 orders last month with the understanding that I wouldn't receive a 2nd VW poly. To my surprise I got one. I also got one with the subsequent orders. I have no idea why since I never receive any promo items after the initial one. They always get manually cancelled and it's been like that for me since late December last year. The only difference this time was that all orders were paid for with points.

luckyruss

The optimal point must have been to run out of campervans, ie they maximised the number of purchases people made with the expectation of getting the camper van.

if they run out too early, they risk that they lose further orders because people decide to go to Amazon instead (cheaper price, no freebie) or at best wait until October when 2x VIP points are on. However, at least they made a given number of sales, at full RRP, to give out all of them. But if they still have some left, they would have been better off promising them earlier on ALL £50+ order with the hope of increasing these (or reducing returns) rather than the likelihood of then giving them away with standard orders.

I don't like the 1 ph rule but if it is the new normal then I can live with it, but like every other restriction they might try to apply the thing that is most annoying is the inconsistency of policy and perceived unfairness if policy is not uniformly applied.

Aleydita

I ended up with 5 of these which is 3 more than I wanted. 2 from Lego shops and 3 from online orders.

juggles7

Stevemack, no, they are not giving them out. princedraven, no and no to your questions, and if these people can do no wrong in your eyes, that's fine with me. joel4motion, the rules are not enforced across the board and the evidence is right here in these comments; some made multiple online orders and got one, some made multiple online orders and got multiple bonus items.

CCC

They seemed to have loads under the desk in Stratford last Saturday.

I have no problem with one per house or per VIP. Just don't add them to subsequent carts, so no confusion.

princedraven

@juggles7 I said nothing about doing no wrong, I in fact am currently very unhappy with my local store (different story!).

However it appears that your argument that they had some left over at the end of the month and therefore didn't handle the promo well is flawed.
It is much better that they stick to the rules and everyone who is entitled to one gets one and they end up with some left over, than dishing them out to all and sundry, ignoring the rules and running out half way through the month, and thus letting down all the people in the second half of the month who would be entitled to one.

CCC

^ Yeah, they should now return those to the warehouse, or if they are allowed to continue the promo then just give them out in store with qualifying purchases. I asked at Stratford if the promo ends at the end of the month. And was told that they don't know yet, that promos normally do, but they are not given very much notice about when to stop giving the promo out.

Aleydita

Given the costs of producing the polys it's reasonable to assume that they could easily give them away with every order over the order value threshold.

Suggesting they're limiting them because they don't want to run out and disappoint those who order towards the end of the month, that's a bit of a weak argument to be honest. TLG will know how many orders they receive during any given month and what tolerance to allow for giveaways given the extra orders that previous popular ones generated. It's far more reasonable that they limited them earlier in the month because their deal with VW only allowed them to make so many, and they wanted to ensure their projected order volumes were accurate enough to subsequently relax the "one per household" limit.

Whatever the reason I think most people are just after consistency. Learning your 2nd and 3rd order didn't include a poly only to see sellers on eBay with 10-20 of them each is what probably annoys all those who missed out on multiples. Placing an order you wouldn't otherwise have placed just to get the 2nd camper you want is surely something they'd want to encourage. I assume they'd rather have your money than you giving it to some lucky chancer with TLG connections on eBay.

CCC

Aleydita said:

Whatever the reason I think most people are just after consistency. Learning your 2nd and 3rd order didn't include a poly only to see sellers on eBay with 10-20 of them each is what probably annoys all those who missed out on multiples. Placing an order you wouldn't otherwise have placed just to get the 2nd camper you want is surely something they'd want to encourage. I assume they'd rather have your money than you giving it to some lucky chancer with TLG connections on eBay.

^ There are course ways to get many of them without having connections to TLG. Just off the top of my head - buy 10x £50 sets instore from different stores, or from different staff in the store, or get relatives / friends to do it. Probably not using VIP card, then ask for the points later so you don't miss out on them.

What would you do with the extra order you wouldn't have otherwise placed? Some of the time, that set will be traded / sold so no real different to a reseller / lucky chancer on ebay.

princedraven

Aleydita said:

Given the costs of producing the polys it's reasonable to assume that they could easily give them away with every order over the order value threshold.

You know what they say about assuming.....
And for the record, I do not believe that is a reasonable assumption.

Aleydita

I don't doubt that that happens but I suspect most AFOLs are not resellers and many would have placed a second order if they wanted a second VW Camper, if only to not have to spend £10-20 on eBay for it.

Xefan

I ended up with 3, two in store, one online.

Sympathise with those who were denied more than one, does seem terribly unfair.

I somewhat wonder if whether you get more is related to this magical metric Lego seem to store that determines whether you get a VIP day invite, whether you got the valentines key ring and so forth. Maybe if you score high on that they're less picky and more willing to please, but score low and they just give you one?

cheshirecat

^Nope, online it was purely random. I had one order (not the second, not the last) enter CS and the camper van was removed from the order (and obviously the delivery) all my other orders came with poly. I got one from each in store purchase too. Did anyone not get them in store?

Aleydita

princedraven said:

Aleydita said:

Given the costs of producing the polys it's reasonable to assume that they could easily give them away with every order over the order value threshold.

You know what they say about assuming.....
And for the record, I do not believe that is a reasonable assumption.

Well not much of a surprise given your argumentative nature I suppose :)

CCC

We aren't given the costs of producing them. I doubt they are as cheap as you think, as there are more to costs than the raw ABS.

Xefan

Well we know that Lego can produce similarly sized products and sell them to a 3rd party retailer who sells them at £3 and still have both of them make a profit.

So at very least we know the absolute most they can cost, and from there it's reasonable to make a determination as to whether even a £3 gift on a £50 order is a problem but realistically when you remove profit margins from the equation as well as the other costs of logistics of dealing with a 3rd party it's going to be way lower.

princedraven

Aleydita said:

princedraven said:

Aleydita said:

Given the costs of producing the polys it's reasonable to assume that they could easily give them away with every order over the order value threshold.

You know what they say about assuming.....
And for the record, I do not believe that is a reasonable assumption.

Well not much of a surprise given your argumentative nature I suppose :)

wow, just wow, how on earth is that argumentative?
Because I don't agree with your assumption that Lego are mismanaging their organisation I am argumentative.
You know zero about what you are 'assuming', you know nothing about the costs to produce, costs to supply or any agreement with VW.

I knew I left this thread for a reason....

Xefan

princedraven said:

You know zero about what you are 'assuming', you know nothing about the costs to produce, costs to supply or any agreement with VW.

I would wager that's exactly the point. You don't have any better idea either, yet you still felt the need to suggest the assumption was not reasonable without bothering to at least explain why.

If you're going to disagree with someone at least justify your point. If you can't justify your point then consider that perhaps your point simply isn't valid. Otherwise it looks like you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, in which case yes, you're being argumentative and it's not constructive.

CCC

Xefan said:

Well we know that Lego can produce similarly sized products and sell them to a 3rd party retailer who sells them at £3 and still have both of them make a profit.

So at very least we know the absolute most they can cost, and from there it's reasonable to make a determination as to whether even a £3 gift on a £50 order is a problem but realistically when you remove profit margins from the equation as well as the other costs of logistics of dealing with a 3rd party it's going to be way lower.

How do you know lego (and presumably WHS) make a profit on them? They could do this with very little or zero profit involved, simply to get people buying lego and to get people into WHS. Sometimes stores use loss leaders to get people in, and sometimes companies sell cheaper products at below retail just to get people hooked on using them.

princedraven

@Xefan
You miss the point, the assumption WAS invalid because they had no facts to base it on. Nothing to do with my opinion.

I didn't need to enter into an argument (even though I accused of it) to say that the assumption was invalid.

And unfortunately for you this is a public forum and my opinion, as well as yours and everyone else here is just as valid.

So many posts on here are utter tripe because they are full of:
"It is clear that", when what they mean is "I think"
"TLG are rubbish because", when what they mean is "I disagree with this"
etc, etc

Seriously so many people here base their 'facts', 'fair assumptions', 'proof that' comments on absolutely no real facts.

paul_merton

Oh, shush. This is achieving nothing (in my opinion) :)

Xefan

CCC said:

How do you know lego (and presumably WHS) make a profit on them? They could do this with very little or zero profit involved, simply to get people buying lego and to get people into WHS. Sometimes stores use loss leaders to get people in, and sometimes companies sell cheaper products at below retail just to get people hooked on using them.

Because last time I asked the WH Smiths store manager "Do you even make any profit off these once Lego have taken their share?" he chuckled and said "Yes, we still make a bit of profit off of them" perhaps?

I suspect it's the same for all polybags across the world apart from those bundled with newspapers and I'd wager even at 20p or whatever it was for the ones in The Sun it wasn't costing them that much to run the promo.

Xefan

@princedraven you're wrong.

princedraven

^ you too! And you WH Smith's manager also!

I bet is was Bob, was it Bob? Compulsive liar that dude, we should have sacked him years ago!

SirKevbags

Knickers to polys. I've packed enough to last me a lifetime this afternoon. Its only a day now till we are travelling to STEAM for plenty of good times, great LEGO, wonderful crack and even a few cheeky drinks.