Quality Lego Sticker Scans

Pitfall69

I didn't know where to put this, but I did want it to be forum specific.

Is there a way where we can have an area to share quality Lego sticker scans? I know they are copyrighted, but so are the bricks themselves and we trade and buy/sell them all the time within this forum.

graphite

Pretty sure it is different when the object of copyright is physical and you are trading/selling it versus distributing digitized copies of a document.

Pitfall69

I'm sure that is true, but I'm just talking about "trading", not selling digital copies. I don't see any difference between that and posting old instructions.

I'm not an expert on these matters, so that is why I posted this for discussion :)

drdavewatford

Pitfall69 said:

I didn't know where to put this, but I did want it to be forum specific.

Is there a way where we can have an area to share quality Lego sticker scans? I know they are copyrighted, but so are the bricks themselves and we trade and buy/sell them all the time within this forum.

I like this idea - @Huw ?

I'm getting into the habit of doing 600 dpi scans of sticker sheets when I crack open a set; it'd be nice to have a repository to systematically collect everybody's scans together.

Agree that from a copyright perspective it doesn't seem any different to posting instructions; on this basis, providing no money changes hands it's hard to see LEGO objecting.

SirKevbags

Licensed stickers could be an issue. They won't even sell them.

graphite

^ Except that it is still distribution of a copyrighted material. Old sets etc I could see them not caring but if it limits the sale of replacement sticker sheets for ones they have piles of in stock they might start to care. Not that they probably do that much in sales of sticker sheets.

Pitfall69

^agreed, but I don't think it is any different than Bricklink stores selling the real thing. We would just be trading scans of the real thing. Think of it as a AC Cobra kit car. It looks like the real thing, but it isn't ;)

Pitfall69

I also think it would be a great way to trade user created Lego stickers like for Minifigure torsos and shields or signage.

drdavewatford

But back to my earlier point; scans of instructions, including those from licensed sets, are freely available all over the internet and I've never seen or heard of any attempts by LEGO to remove them. Why should scans of stickers be any different ?

SirKevbags said:

Licensed stickers could be an issue. They won't even sell them.

I suspect they wouldn't sell instructions from licensed sets either, but there doesn't seem to be any concern about scans of those instructions being hosted on various freely-accessible sites.

Pitfall69

They "may" or "may not" ;) We need to call in our resident legal experts from the Discounts on Exclusives thread :)

graphite

Pitfall69 said:

^agreed, but I don't think it is any different than Bricklink stores selling the real thing. We would just be trading scans of the real thing. Think of it as a AC Cobra kit car. It looks like the real thing, but it isn't ;)

It is actually significantly different, because the Cobra kit cars aren't violating any laws since the cobra body design was never trademarked. Shelby tried to trademark it but was turned down by the courts due to the fact that it had been so long and so many copies had been made that it was too late. The "use it or lose it" policy.

Pitfall69

Ha. Maybe I should have Googled first.

cheshirecat

^^ They "may" well say you "may not" post copyrighted images online.

The instructions argument seems pretty strong to me. They appear to have let that go and however i try I can't differentiate between the two. Stickers include images that belong to the Lucas, marvel, DC etc, but then so do the instructions.

I suspect if you asked LEGO they would say no. If you went ahead and did it, they might not notice/not care.

madforLEGO

I see guys selling licensed names all the time on eBay as well as repro LEGO sticker sheets. Some companies may care and some may not. I know the same guy sells Vesta and Maersk stickers.. not sure if anyone reported him to those companies or not though.
Now if someone was trying to sell these for dear then I could see an issue.
But if the scans were available for people to print out on their own I do not see it being an issue (nevermind I have yet to see a repro that was perfect scale to the original)
I cannot tell you how long I have been looking for repro 1592 stickers sheets after missing them back when a guy was selling them on eBay.

I tihnk if you are simply doing old LEGO sheets that is likely not an issue, especially if not made for the last 10-20 years (though Im guessing that any website should verify this with LEGO before actively allowing posts) but the licensed ones, particularly SW, will likely run into a brick wall.

Huw

Ill add it to the 'think about doing' list for the new site.

Pitfall69

I think selling reproduction stickers is one thing, having them available to copy and use for your own personal use is another as far as Lego is concerned. I buy reproduction stickers for my old G.I. Joe Vehicles. I think the same company sells some Lego stickers as well.

Having a repository on Brickset.com is one thing, but I wanted to keep it within the forum and just have a thread where we can exchange scans. If you can add it to the website; that would be even better.

CCC

I asked for the same here for the Orthanc set.

http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/comment/219109#Comment_219109

If anyone does have a scan, I'd be grateful for a copy.

It would be really good to have this automated, especially if everyone submitting them agrees to a standard for uploads (high-res, and aligned correctly on your scanner first not at some jaunty angle!)

Ra226

I think the difference is the bricks are patented--a patent that ran out long ago (hence megablox). The stickers are copyrighted--which basically never expires. That said, TLG clearly has no problem with the catalog/instruction scans over at Peeron. It would be very nice if Lego offered up scans, or allowed someone else to, or better, provided cheap replacement sheets (or even better, made them of something that didn't decay so quicly) (or even better better, stopped using stickers altogether! ;)

That said, I have also been doing 600dpi scans on any new sticker sheets since about 2010. Fair use should protect your right to do this, which lets you have a personal copy as a backup in case your originals get ruined--which happens naturally over time.

To take a different angle, anyone know if there's a specific type of paper/glue combo one should use when re-printing stickers? I scanned and remastered in Photoshop several of my UCS discription placards but not sure what to re-print them on.

One more thing to consider--color is critical since often, the sticker color needs to match a part color. If there were to be a standard, uploads would need to be in a high-quality format, with some kind of color profile attached to the image. I'm not so sure a simple vollunteer-based catalog of user scans would work, but it's certainly better than nothing.

Pitfall69

Yes, but Lego is on each stud and/or on each part.

As far as paper, color, scale and dpi quality; that can be discussed as well, but maybe not in another thread.

madforLEGO

^-^^-There is another thread about that I believe.. I just cannot find it at the moment

flowerpotgirl

I would love to see a dedicated stickers thread, and would happily contribute.

ColoradoBricks

I like the idea, a good place could be Brickset "set" page, like there is an [Instructions] tab, there could be a [Stickers] tab.

chromedigi

I'm not an attorney, but this strikes me as being very questionable on a legal basis. TLG would probably be within their rights to issue a "cease and desist" order to Brickset, were it to provide a medium for this sort of copyright infringement. While it may well be "fair use" to scan the sticker sheets for your own use, posting those scans for others to download would be an act of piracy, as far as I know. It's probably not worth the potential risks to the site.

There are lots of analogous situations I think most anyone can think of... for example, YouTube perennially having to monitor and remove audio, and so on, from infringing clips. Also photography on the net. Also pirated books (a real problem in the origami community). And so on.

Those of you who collect music may well have noticed a general decline in availability of high-quality cover scans in recent years. This is for the same reason. Even a site like Discogs has to be careful not to overdo the amount and quality of what is available in terms of the scans posted there.

Legoboy

chromedigi said:

I'm not an attorney, but this strikes me as being very questionable on a legal basis. TLG would probably be within their rights to issue a "cease and desist" order to Brickset, were it to provide a medium for this sort of copyright infringement.

I agree, although there's one fast way to find out. @Huw, would it take much to add a tab to a set's page to enable to upload a few of the newer more sensitive ones like #10240 or similar. We could test the water to find out just how sensitive TLG are about it without directly asking the question. If it doesn't take too much to add a tab it wouldn't be a great hardship to lose it if requested to do so. :-)

Pitfall69

I don't think it would be a problem for any Lego set that isn't currently in production and for any sticker sheet that Lego isn't offering for purchase. I don't think they would have a problem with a scanned sticker sheet of #375. To be honest, I don't think the sticker sheet for this set has a copyright logo on it anywhere.

CCC

They could always go in a members only thread. That way they are not available for "public" download, and lego wouldn't even know - unless they are members too.

To keep the thread clean it could have the rules that all posts had to be sticker scans only (no thanks, no requests, etc) and the text should only contain the set number and set name.

chromedigi

Now it's starting to sound like a UUCP binaries newsgroup. Why do it here at all?

madforLEGO

After deciding to search for reproduction LEGO set stickers on the internet, I came across this seller on eBay in the UK offering a lot of what appear to be high quality scans that are pre cut as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEGO-Reproduction-Stickers-Decals-Set-N-s-0-6000-/271391045037?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&var=&hash=item3f302ab5ad
from sets 0-6000

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEGO-Reproduction-Stickers-Decals-Set-N-s-6000-/271392275042?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&var=&hash=item3f303d7a62
from sets 6000+

Never found them before, I guess because I search the titles only for the set numbers.
It appears many have ordered from him in the past, and since paypal transactions are protected, I am going to try to order from them (as I need some stickers, namely 1592, and cannot afford to pay what people on BL are charging for used ones)

Pricey because of the Pound to Dollar conversion but some of these you just cannot find without paying a king's ransom for them.
Has anyone else ordered from this seller?

Pitfall69

I was hoping these guys would start selling Lego reproduction stickers. Their quality is pretty good. I have ordered lots of sticker sheets to customize my G.I. Joe planes and vehicles.

http://cobrastickers.com/

tecjam

I for one am a bit dissapointed that this thread seemed to have died.

I have so far only applied stickers to the VW Camper, but I've only been out of the dark ages since May. All other sticker sheets are kept in the building instructions until I get a chance to scan them and print them so I can place the copied ones onto the sets.

While I agree that it would be nice to have a repository for scanned sticker sheets - even if it is members only - , I can also see that it would allow others to reproduce the stickers and sell them at inflated prices without having to do any set-buying or scanning themselves. *all while humming Dire Straights - Money for nothing*

So i guess leaving every one to their own devices may be the best option, but of course this makes it difficult for someone who has bought a used set and wants to replace the stickers.

plasmodium

That's the way to do it - get your money for nothing and your stickers for free.

datsunrobbie

brickowl has lots of scans of sticker sheets. I have not tried printing any, but it might be worth a shot...

chuckp

DIY replacement stickers is something that is sorely needed. I made the mistake of applying stickers to my early Star Wars sets and they disintegrated within a year or two. No joke, buying the cheapest replacement sheet for my Rebel Blockade Runner off Bricklink would actually cost me more than what I paid for the set new.

I'm all for some sort of sticker scan database. And if some Dire Straights-lovin' reseller wants to make replacements using it, that's even better. I'd much rather pay $10-$20 for replacement sheet than $150 or more. 

bobabricks

Some of the custom stickers now are getting insane. I just bought a set (seller was kind enough to send me a spare as well) of stickers for my BrickLinked #4000014 and wow! Pre-cut, size is exact, print quality is amazing, the stickers are glossed and I doubt you could tell it from the real thing. This is definitely a great alternative for stickers that cost big bucks or stickers that just don't exist on the market like the ones I needed.

madforLEGO

bobabricks said:

Some of the custom stickers now are getting insane. I just bought a set (seller was kind enough to send me a spare as well) of stickers for my BrickLinked #4000014 and wow! Pre-cut, size is exact, print quality is amazing, the stickers are glossed and I doubt you could tell it from the real thing. This is definitely a great alternative for stickers that cost big bucks or stickers that just don't exist on the market like the ones I needed.

Yeah the guy I was referencing above seems to make REALLY good quality sticker sheet replacements for old/classic LEGO minifig sets, complete with being pre-cut like the original sticker sheets (not sure how he does it) but the only issue is the sheets he use (and Im assuming others use) comes off a large roll which means they can 'roll' back to their form if you do not keep them flat. Even still they seem really nice. Full disclosure though, I have not had a chance to apply any yet to brick so I cannot tell how well they stick.

Pitfall69

Well, I tried by starting the discussion :) I think @legoboy caused the thread to die ;)

Pitfall69

I have been scanning the sticker sheets of every set I purchase and I make my own stickers from the scans; keeping the original sticker sheets pristine. The stickers are not the exact same quality, but I don't really care at the moment. 

tecjam

@Pitfall69 Interesting. Exactly how / what do you print them with / on and what do you use to cut them out? Just out of interest - as I said I have yet to print any.

chuckp

@bobabricks Do you have a link for the #4000014 sticker seller? The 4000014 is on my brick link to-do list as well and it would be great to have stickers for it.

Pitfall69

tecjam said:

@Pitfall69 Interesting. Exactly how / what do you print them with / on and what do you use to cut them out? Just out of interest - as I said I have yet to print any.

I use clear sticker paper for ink jet printers for transparent LEGO stickers and just plain white sticker paper for Non-Transparent stickers. I spray a coat of clear coat over the printed area, so the printing doesn't smudge. They turn out ok, but not near the quality of the originals. 

TigerMoth

@Pitfall69,

Um... I can't say that I know too much about G.I. Joe, but in that picture of the Conquest you posted, isn't the star on the side upside down?

bobabricks

@chuckp Here is a link to the stickers I bought, may want to get them soon as they are starting to pick up and sell.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/111786518943

chuckp

^ Thanks for the link. 

Pitfall69

TigerMoth said:

@Pitfall69,

Um... I can't say that I know too much about G.I. Joe, but in that picture of the Conquest you posted, isn't the star on the side upside down?

Yup, you are 100% correct. After I was looking at the picture, I thought the same thing. It was corrected shortly after my post. I just never took anymore pics :) I have done that with a few assorted G.I. Joe and LEGO sets in the past. Drives me crazy and another reason I prefer printed pieces.

Bosstone100

I'd love to find sticker scans for #375 yellow castle. Some of mine are in bad shape.

khmellymel

Pitfall69 said:

I have been scanning the sticker sheets of every set I purchase and I make my own stickers from the scans; keeping the original sticker sheets pristine. The stickers are not the exact same quality, but I don't really care at the moment. 

That's a great idea!  I think I'll start doing that, it would be handy to have a backup... to my backups... Currently when I get a recent set, I Brickowl an extra copy or two of the sticker sheet so I have (at least) one to use and one to keep.  I do this while the set is still available/easy to get.  It's a small extra cost, but the way I figure it would probably be annoyingly expensive or hard to find down the line when I want to replace them!

Legoboy

khmellymel said:

Pitfall69 said:

I have been scanning the sticker sheets of every set I purchase and I make my own stickers from the scans; keeping the original sticker sheets pristine. The stickers are not the exact same quality, but I don't really care at the moment. 

That's a great idea!  I think I'll start doing that, it would be handy to have a backup... to my backups... Currently when I get a recent set, I Brickowl an extra copy or two of the sticker sheet so I have (at least) one to use and one to keep.  I do this while the set is still available/easy to get.  It's a small extra cost, but the way I figure it would probably be annoyingly expensive or hard to find down the line when I want to replace them!


That's a great idea that.

BrickDancer

^It sure is! =) That's my approach as well, especially for the big important sets it's a must.

Legoboy

^ If you only knew.  ;)

Pitfall69

Legoboy said:

^ If you only knew.  ;)

I know and I am surprised men in white coats haven't taken you away by now.

BrickDancer

Oh i do know Legoboy, I do... I've seen pics of your massive sticker hoarding =)