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Should we continue the discussion about reselling?

rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,288
edited August 2013 in Buying & Selling Topics
Do you think we are able to continue the discussion about reselling in a constructive (although occasionally contentious) manner, or is it simply too divisive?

Should we continue the discussion about reselling? 199 votes

Yes
50% 101 votes
No
49% 98 votes
«1

Comments

  • BalloonistBalloonist Member Posts: 52
    Oooooo I can leave a comment too
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,288
    I'm not sure if we should have comments, but I'll leave it open for commenting for now.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I voted no, the debate has been made, everyone's viewpoints are clear, at some point we're just running around the pole for no reason. :)

    At the very least, I'd close the current conversation and suggest starting a new one with a different starter topic, maybe discuss reselling in general rather than a "pro-con" debate. That way, resellers have a place to go to talk about reselling and all reselling topics can be put there.

    So we have two master threads, the "retirement" thread and the "reselling" thread.

    Negative comments about it can be kept out, and comments about reselling can be kept out of all other threads.

    Thoughts?
    WesleyBwagnerml2bluemoderntedward
  • tamamahmtamamahm Member Posts: 1,955
    I see no reason not to leave it open, granted I haven't caught up with the most recent 100-200 comments. ;-) I think at times, there are new items that come up that make it pertinent to revisit the reseller thread.

    In addition, despite contention, I find the thread very informative, because I do think there are different ways of viewing things. I like that.

    I do think, though, when things just seem to be circling for days, it is okay for the moderators to say, "Guys/Gals, let us take a week break from this,". There is nothing wrong with a week or a few day hiatus to help people move on... even locking a thread for a week, and then reopening it. Sometimes a cool down period is useful. I would rather not see the discussion go completely, though.

    jasorgifinim
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    You may want to change the title of the poll to ” Should we continue to beat a dead horse?”
    plasmodiummadforLEGOmargotjasorwagnerml2cardgeniusiancam33andhe91stlegotrooper
  • rancorbaitrancorbait Manitoba CanadaMember Posts: 1,850
    edited August 2013
    I don't see the need to continue the tread, it hasn't really gotten anywhere. Besides, I don't hold any anger towards resellers anyway.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    New members, new occasions, new snafus will all be kindling for the "debate" in the future. I don't think the thread should be closed or buried, but perhaps current parties should just call a truce. Until the chrome doodads...
    cheshirecat
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    I voted yes for one reason.

    That thread came back because of actions and posts from other threads. If you decide to dis-allow the convo, then any posts about re-selling outside the reselling thread and any complaints about said posts should be deleted and not moved. That thread and topic for the most part had been dead for 9 months. I also see no reason to not allow the debate as long as it remains in its proper thread. If someone feels it is a dead horse topic, they have the right NOT to read that thread the same way someone who dislikes re-selling has the right to not read that thread.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited August 2013
    Shrug, it'll just come up again in the future. I'd be more for short-term heavy moderation (not like I want to give you guys more work). In other words, take a hard line on keeping it on topic and not go off on personal, insulting tangents. Give out warnings, etc. Perhaps then it'll just complete on its own because there's not much more to say if you take out all the hurtful jabs.

    I'm just not a fan of squelching conversations, especially ones that are divisive.
    Pitfall69jasor
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    Close the thread - nothing new has been added in a while to the conversation.

    I like LFT's idea of a second, perhaps permanent, thread that discusses reselling and reselling tactics, ethics, etc. in a constructive manner. Those who are offended by the idea of reselling or aren't interested in reading the thoughts of resellers can choose to stay away. But just as resellers shouldn't pollute other threads with reselling talk, anti-resellers should not come into this thread with nothing more than inflammatory attacks and anti-reseller diatribes. Debating in a responsible way around specific tactics and points should be allowed and encouraged, attacking the entire concept of reseeling or the character of those who choose to resell should not be tolerated however.
    WesleyB
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    edited August 2013
    I think the discussion should continue for the following reasons:

    1. Censorship: This is generally not a good thing in my opinion. Most or all Lego-related discussions should be permitted. There are going to be differing points of views about anything. Reselling is no different.

    2. Letting the majority dictate the rights of the minority: This, in part, is why the US has the constitution, bill of rights, etc. These (for the most part) ensure the rights of the minority are maintained. Although the "right" to discuss most or all things Lego as it relates to this forum can probably be considered negligible, it nonetheless is something that should ideally be maintained, even if it's only the minority who want it.

    3. Business sense: The objective of the forum and of this site, in addition to providing information as it pertains to Lego, is probably to generate money in one fashion or another. In its current format, that probably means people purchasing from Amazon via product links on Brickset. In the future, that may include advertising. If people are unable to discuss what they want to discuss here, they will go somewhere else to discuss those things. Effectively, that translates into lost revenue. That makes no sense. The people who don't want to read about reselling don't have to. They can simply read/post elsewhere in the forum. Therefore, the forum is probably not losing much traffic due to people leaving because they don't want to read about reselling. In fact, I would venture a guess it's quite the opposite. People love to see a train wreck.
    jon_kMasterBeefyrocaolucian
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,727
    I entirely agree with @LFT.

    It's a shame the conversation escalated the way it did. It started re #41999 of which I was dead interested about, then went to Technic Aftermarket and then merged with Hating Resellers. To be perfectly honest, I would never had ventured in had I known how it was going to turn out. With the number of unread posts there are now, I simply don't have the energy for it.

    @LFT's suggestion of keeping threads separate is how it's been for ages. I have thousands of unread posts for the 'predictions' thread. Really doesn't interest me. And it was sort of accepted by all that that and the 'bragging' threads be used to discuss reselling and showing off their latest hauls. I would vote for that to continue whilst the boards being closely monitored to keep the reseller-free theads free of reseller related comments.
    cheshirecatcollect_that
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^I never took the "Bragging" thread as similar in nature to "Reselling". Most of the posts I see in there are crazy finds in term of discount, hidden treasure (yardsales, Craigslist) and huge bulk part lots. I quite enjoy these posts and would not want that thread heading in the "Bulk Purchase" direction. There should be a new thread created for that purpose.
    cardgeniusBumblepantsjasor
  • timinchicagotiminchicago USAMember Posts: 239
    I voted yes.

    As much as it may pain me to read through every comment, I see no legitimate reason to close a thread simply because there are differences of opinion or a lack of agreement regarding the subject matter.

    A passionate discussion such as this thread offers is a hallmark of a good and vibrant forum. To end a thread because it is contentious or does not reach a consensus of opinion is a potentially harmful precedent that erodes the overall validity of the forum.
    Yellowcastlecheshirecat
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    debate is always healthy and for one if it gets the juices flowing well good news, but as for it getting out of control, well thats has to be down to strong moderation.

    I was always under the impression name calling trolling was for children/facebook/ask.fm

    so moderate and be dammed I say
    Yellowcastle
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    I have yet to vote because I'm torn on the question.

    On one hand, I'd say yes since it's entirely possible to have a constructive discussion on the subject which would hopefully end some of the issues that the community seems to have on that topic.

    However, I'm also tempted to say no for a myriad of reasons included but not limited to the fact that some have irrational positions that they will not deviate from, some have self-serving positions which they will not sacrifice, some are simply not able or willing to discuss rationally (for either of the previous two reasons or merely because it's not within their ability to do so) and some are ignorant as to the entirety of the facts of the discussion and hence jump to conclusions based on partial evidence.

    While it would seem that there are far more reasons to vote "No", it's not that easy a call because ending this discussion will not end the issue being discussed. It would seem a better course of action would be a strong admin policy regarding reselling, resellers and their opponents. Which way the position goes would not be my call obviously but it seems that it comes down to one of these choices:

    1. The ending of reselling and related topics on these forums and a general prohibition against restarting such topics and conducting such activities herein.
    2. The end of criticism of reselling topics and resellers and the acceptance of such practices.
    3. Clearer guidelines regarding behavior of resellers and a code of honor regarding acceptable reselling practices and participation in these forums. Actual policies and punishments may need to be laid out for violators. It would also have to be clearly noted that those who did not violate these guidelines were to be free from harassment by those who dislike reselling as well since the creation of an ethical standard can not hold if those who adhere are subject to ill treatment like those who do not.

    As a note regarding option three, I used to frequent several gaming forums where there were similar actions by the communities regarding two particular people.

    One was an individual who violated the licensing of a game to produce his own, stripping out credit to those who created it and then claiming its origin as his own. He was banned from every forum and on some even typing his name or the name of his game resulted in the forum filters automatically replacing it with "thief" or "asshole" or other such unflattering terms.

    Another was an individual who claimed that an independently-developed code snippet was based on his even though sufficient evidence existed to show that it was not (not to mention the fact that even his claim to his own was shaky since it was actually developed by three people). He also claimed to have invented numerous video games, YouTube and who knows what else (seriously, he tried to claim all of those things). As of a result of his belief that everyone was using his work, regardless of the fact that no one was, he would routinely, once a year or so when he went off his medication or something, make the round of logging into the forums to make his claims and demands for transfer of game rights, royalties, etc. The forums' policies were pretty simply. When he did this, it was open season on him for ridicule without limit. It ranged from mercilessly making fun of his claims, the stability of his code, his name, his face, his sanity, the circumstances of this birth and anything else you can think of until he finally slithered back into the bowels of the earth where he came from.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd throw these thoughts out there. I still haven't voted but may eventually. :-)
  • YpresYpres Member Posts: 200
    How about Brickset give us a third list to log our sets, that way us collectors can have a list of "Owns", "Wants", and "Would've owned had it not been for a reseller coming along and buying all the remaining stock"! *lol*

    I don't care if the majority of people want to discuss reselling, because I don't use the forums anyway. There's too many topics which have hundreds of posts and only have a dozen or so useful ones. So I see far less contructive conversation going on around the forums besides the topic of reselling, and I too believe that's a dead horse. Who cares though?! We can click into or out of whatever topics we want. Just because I have an opinion on reselling doesn't mean I need to go into every topic relating to reselling and say where I stand on the issue, then moniter the number beside my name to argue with people later. This is a problem with the users, not with what the forum allows.
  • chuxtoyboxchuxtoybox Member Posts: 711
    I voted "YES" because so much of that thread has nothing to do with the original topic! I assume we're talking about the thread "Why so much anger towards resellers..."

    I think a lot of threads should be closed once they a) go way off topic or b)are so old that the original question isn't relevant anymore
  • cardgeniuscardgenius Member Posts: 153
    edited August 2013
    If there was ever a thread that needed a "Beating a Dead Horse" meme posted, that is the one.

    I say close it. Seems like its just going in circles now. I keep getting Deja Vu from reading the same arguments over and over.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,242
    Leave it open. Otherwise it will spread even faster into other threads.
    jasorleemcgUKtsumi
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,727

    ^I never took the "Bragging" thread as similar in nature to "Reselling". Most of the posts I see in there are crazy finds in term of discount, hidden treasure (yardsales, Craigslist) and huge bulk part lots. I quite enjoy these posts and would not want that thread heading in the "Bulk Purchase" direction. There should be a new thread created for that purpose.

    You're right, most brags are to do with crazy discounts, but is also the second place nobody minds the reseller hauls being displayed. ;-)
  • JamesJTJamesJT Member Posts: 440
    edited August 2013
    @rocao - All you've done is start another thread about reselling. Just leave them to it.
    FurrysauruscheshirecatYellowcastleLegoMom1
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    The original 41999 thread would have eventually died down if it didn't get chopped up and then 1/2 of it moved to the resellers thread to revive it...
    lucian
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    And now moved to this one, to spread it a tad further....
    Yellowcastle
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    JamesJT said:

    @rocao - All you've done is start another thread about reselling. Just leave them to it.

    Couldn't say it any better. I voted to keep it open. I love a debate. It's fairly interesting to agree with both sides, some of the time.

    I would ask, however, if there is a better title for it? May not be, but there are some gifted with eloquent yet concise venaculars able to express less negativity than the existing thread name.
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark UK / KLMember Posts: 3,532
    I assume the poll means the thread entitled 'Why so much anger towards resellers? an honest question'.

    tbh I stopped reading it a few days ago. I can't be bothered to keep up with a thread that's gaining 200 new comments - many of them not small comments - every day.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    Also the problem with this poll is it's going to get votes from people who are not engaged in the discussion. As long as it stays in that thread, I see no reason why it can not continue. But like re-selling shoudl stay in that thread, the debate for/against it should stay in that thread.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    yes, because at least it contains it. perhaps rename it, but as yellowcastle did it provides a useful place to dump conversations that have gone that way. if its closed in six months time, a year, whenever the issue will arise and well regurgitate the issues again. its a vent, it lasts a few days and then we all return to normal.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    I'm enjoying the bar chart. A nice distraction.
    jasor
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    that said, if resellers want more threads to contain their discussions then they should have them, a predictions thread doesnt really surfice.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,242
    edited August 2013
    It will appear with any exclusive.

    Countdown to the 'I ordered 48 stig key chains using family and friends' thread appearing starts now.
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    I have 60 stig keychains .. any takers .. £1,000000000000 each :)
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    edited August 2013
    I bought 101% of all the Stig keychains ever produced!

    [Edited by prof1515 to make it relevant]

    I think the question that needs to be answered by the admins is what (more?) are you willing to do or put up with in regard to that thread and any others that might result from closing it or not closing it?
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    prof1515 said:

    I bought 101% of all the Stig keychains ever produced!

    [Edited by prof1515 to make it relevant]

    I think the question that needs to be answered by the admins is what (more?) are you willing to do or put up with in regard to that thread and any others that might result from closing it or not closing it?

    I own the factory where they are made !!
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    jon_k said:

    prof1515 said:

    I bought 101% of all the Stig keychains ever produced!

    [Edited by prof1515 to make it relevant]

    I think the question that needs to be answered by the admins is what (more?) are you willing to do or put up with in regard to that thread and any others that might result from closing it or not closing it?

    I own the factory where they are made !!
    I *AM* the Stig!
    jon_k
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    I "AM" your father Stig!!
    caperberry
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    edited August 2013
    No, you're my father's brother's cousin's girlfriend's former roommate which makes you absolutely nothing!
    LegoFanTexas
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,727
    @Pitfall69 - a bit of real humour is required please.
    LegoFanTexas
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    prof1515 said:

    No, you're my father's brother's cousin's girlfriend's former roommate which makes you absolutely nothing!

    so who are you again ?

  • CapnRex101CapnRex101 United KingdomAdministrator Posts: 2,282
    Level pegging now, this is getting exciting!
    jon_k
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Not sure what closing it would do? This 'issue' will still exist and will always exist, you have 2 very conflicting ideals and they will never EVER agree. So the arguments will just start again when the next round of sales/limited edition or whatever hits.

    To me these are not 2 sets of people enjoying separate angles on a hobby, there are the people who collect and the people who want to make money out of the people who collect, yes there is some grey (or Bley) where some resellers like to also collect (but not at the expense of making a buck) and some collectors who will resell (but not at the expense of their collection), but seriously what are you gonna do? Just keep the threads separate and everyone can contribute where they want (I think I am up to a few thousand unread on the predictions thread for instance, after accidentally clicking it some months ago).
  • CurvedRoadPlateCurvedRoadPlate Member Posts: 257
    I wish there was a cap on comments on a discussion. When it reaches that number start a new, similar thread. Otherwise you end up with these monster discussions that are too deep for a new person to wade into.
    chuxtoyboxyys4ulucian
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    jon_k said:

    prof1515 said:

    No, you're my father's brother's cousin's girlfriend's former roommate which makes you absolutely nothing!

    so who are you again ?

    I *AM* the Stig!
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 228
    prof1515 said:

    jon_k said:

    prof1515 said:

    No, you're my father's brother's cousin's girlfriend's former roommate which makes you absolutely nothing!

    so who are you again ?

    I *AM* the Stig!
    image
    orly
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark UK / KLMember Posts: 3,532
    I'm now eagerly awaiting the 'Should we continue the discussion about the discussion about reselling?' poll and thread...
    LegoFanTexasYellowcastlejasor
  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118
    The thread certainly seems to be an ever-expanding source of ammunition that members are using against each other. I've never seen so many private messages shared publicly in a single thread for the sole purpose of trying to prove who is the biggest hypocrite.

    I like lively debates, but some rules/guidelines have to be set otherwise it seems like my garden that is continually being overrun with weeds.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    Holy cow, 49% to 50%....there really are 2 Bricksets. ;o)
    margot
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    ^ I disagree. Bring on anarchy in a civil manner. Who are the weeds? The resellers or the "true fans?" *gets out popcorn, and waits for response.

    I kid. kinda.
    Furrysaurus
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,727

    Holy cow, 49% to 50%....there really are 2 Bricksets. ;o)

    And probably only 2 people voting. IPs need checking. ;o)

    Furrysaurus
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