An open discussion on Forum/Brickset Etiquette

MrBerre

The first comment on this news item : http://www.brickset.com/news/article/?ID=7115 was the imaginative exclamation "1st comment!" This is an annoying habit which IMHO should not be tolerated on Brickset.

When I objected to it, someone replied "IMHO that doesn't seem all that worth moaning about. ;)", to which I would reply: So when then? When the first five comments are variations on "first"? The first ten? Me, I think that this nonsense should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly. You see a new post, there's already half a dozen replies, so you think "must be some interesting discussion going on there": nope, it's five posters desperately trying to be "first", as if that means something.

IMHO that first comment should be deleted and the person responsible for it should receive at least a temporary ban.

On a related note: what is it with all the crummy English lately? I bet the first time somebody wrote "should of" someone said "well let's not get too upset at that". And now in the thread for that news item we have people writing "exspensive", "hoe they did the water" (misspelling "how"? seriously?),... In another thread someone used the word "druels". And usually these are native English speakers! Am I without fault? Nope, sure I make typos, and moreover English was the fourth language I acquired, after Dutch, French and German. So it baffles me that someone can type those words and not notice them being so wrong.

LostInTranslation

A lot of those kinds of comments on the home page are made by kids. It's really not worth stressing about. You can't expect 10 year olds to understand how irritating it is.

As for typos and bad English: yes, that's annoying too. But again, not worth getting upset over. My job involves a lot of proofreading and it is impossible for me not to notice each and every error. But I don't have room in my life to get upset over it. People make mistakes because they're in a hurry, on a phone with autocorrect, or genuinely don't realise how a word is correctly spelled or understand a rule of grammar.

I've seen mods here in the forum occasionally point out to people who've made lengthy posts without proper punctuation or with lots of errors how they should take a little more care but other then that, how is it helpful to make people feel bad about making a mistake? This is a community to talk about Lego, not an English language course.

(I'm bound to have made a mistake somewhere in there because a) I'm on my phone, b) in a hurry and c) it is sod's law. Feel free to point it out to me.)

caperberry

Good point, LiT, about front page vs Forum. And if pointless 'firsting' appears on the Forum I'd highly recommend hitting the Abuse button.

And hurrah to you MrBerre for defending your fourth language :O) The twin powers of the interwebs plus auto-correct will render English unrecognisable in a generation, which is fine, so long as the kids know what they're doing. Which I'm sure they don't. ;O)

Matthew

Compared to other sites (LEGO and non-LEGO related) Brickset is actually very good on not having too many '1st comment!!' comments. I have seen many sites where it is nothing short of ridiculous, with several variations of '1st comment!', some then edited when they find out they aren't, and then '2nd comment', '5th comment' etc!

The comment in question is the first I have seen in a good while. Off topic comments are usually deleted very quickly, but the one that you object to was in fact partially on topic, so I really don't think it warrants a measure as severe as a temporary ban.

I quite agree that we do not want Brickset to degrade into the shambles I described above, but I have to say that this really does not seem like a big enough deal to create a major objection to. It's not as if this particular user has been consistently commenting on every article with '1st comment!' or variations.

Please rest assured that if repeat offenders are identified the appropriate action will be taken.

Oh, and @LostInTranslation - it's here:

LostInTranslation said:

...point out to people who've made lengthy posts without proper punctuation or with lots of errors how they should take a little more care but other then that, how is it helpful to make people feel bad about making a mistake?

;-)

LostInTranslation

^ Duh. I did that deliberately, of course ;-)

caperberry

Ah, so Matthew has passed your little test...

Stvoyager04

I can't see how writing 1st comment or whatever is any more annoying than people writing IMO or IMHO.

It's your comment of course it's your opinion!

Yellowcastle

As far as I know, I imagine, It is my understanding, As such, in my opinion...

Without these, I would rarely have anything to say...

LegobrandonCP

Like LIT said, many of the comments on the Brickset homepage are made by young kids.

Saying "first!" is a common thing on the YouTube comments section and various other sites. I personally really dislike the trend, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it other than just ignore it completely.

Too bad once one trend stops, another starts. So there is literally no end to annoying trends.

LegoManiacc

9th!!

Stvoyager04

Yellowcastle said:

As far as I know, I imagine, It is my understanding, As such, I'm my opinion...

Without these, I would rarely have anything to say...

These are all different to "in my opinion", they suggest you are trying to convey a fact without having the full details of a subject. Whereas IMO, is just that, and is based on feeling rather than fact.

E.g Lego Star Wars is the best product line -my opinion
As far as I know/I imagine/it is my understanding that lego city has the most sales - could be backed up by facts

CCC

Less annoying than posts that say "."

Pitfall69

I can't stand it when people mispell words and don't use proper punktuasion.

SirBen

It's all about the proper appreciation of a system, whether it be the grammatical system that allows for effective communication whereby you are able to properly decode the message I have transmitted in these characters formed of various combinations of straight and curves lines, or the construction system that allows the interconnection on one piece in the system to nearly any other piece in the system.

Thank you, @MrBerre.

jdylak

What bothers me more then "first post!" or misspellings are coming to a thread and seeing 75 new posts to it. Then after reading all the new posts, realize that the thread went from talking about discontinued sets to video game systems and politics.

Seriously, that is more "abuse" then anything. I guess an "offtopic" category is not in the realm of possibilities here.

Yellowcastle

jdylak said:

I guess an "offtopic" category is not in the realm of possibilities here.

@rocao will likely correct me, but isn't this ironic?

rocao

Your wish is my command :)
A category where the topics are intended to be off-topic is paradoxical, not ironic.

Yellowcastle

^ I was actually referencing his "offtopic" question about "offtopics."

As to your paradox, if we created an "offtopic" category, wouldn't that just encourage @LegoFanTexas to discuss LEGO?

CaptAPJT

If "First" replies are simply deleted where and when they appear then it will discourage users from such activity. Simple.

As for the use of "proper" English, members should obviously try and communicate as clearly and accurately as possible. I don't think it needs to be policed to the extent that individuals are afraid of posting comments because they're concerned about having the correct SPG (Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar.) If anyone does have real issues with English for whatever reason (Education, Dyslexia etc) then perhaps a quick spell check will make everyone that much happier.
It might also interest you to hear what Steven Fry has to say on this issue.
http://youtu.be/J7E-aoXLZGY

caperberry

CaptAPJT said:

If "First" replies are simply deleted where and when they appear then it will discourage users from such activity. Simple.

Not so simple for Mods, who I'd wager have better things to get on with in life. But I encourage everyone to mark them as Spam/Abuse!

caperberry

Wonderful video, both Stephen's rant and the animation of typography. Thanks

Yellowcastle

This is a Forum for TFOLs and AFOLs from around the world, many for which english is not his/her first language. So long as some effort is put forth to say something well thought out, then I think we should just get over ourselves.

LegoMom1

^Understood, but recently I have noticed a number of comments, wrought with grammatical errors, that don't appear to have had any effort put into them, other than that of the poster seeing his comments in a thread. Often the comment is followed immediately by a second and sometimes a third comment by the poster. This is quite annoying as the comments are usually mindless and often don't seem to add to the discussion. This type of behavior should be addressed and hopefully discouraged.

LostInTranslation

@legomom1 - if you click on "flag" at the top of a comment near the offending poster's name, you can send a message to admins privately saying why you think a comment is inappropriate. I do this occasionally when a comment isn't really spam or abuse, but I think it needs flagging.

LegoMom1

@LostInTranslation- Thanks for the info. I've wondered what that "flag" was for. In this case, I don't feel the comments I am referring to warrant an alert to the admins. The posts I have read are neither vulgar nor offensive, I just find them annoying, pointless and excessive.

Matthew

LegoMom1 said:

I just find them annoying, pointless and excessive.

All of those (combined - don't flag something just because you find it annoying!) are reasons to flag for moderator attention, we do keep tabs on members who continually post off topic, and action is taken for repeat offenders!

Comments which receive 5 or more flags using the abuse or spam at the bottom are automatically hidden and the flags serve as feedback to the original poster, but the staff don't receive a notification. By using the flag at the top (next to the datestamp) it guarantees that your message will be seen and actioned by the staff.

EKSam

Yellowcastle said:

This is a Forum for TFOLs and AFOLs from around the world, many for which english is not his/her first language. So long as some effort is put forth to say something well thought out, then I think we should just get over ourselves.

Well said! :-)

Yellowcastle

Please note that the Flag function is anonymous while the Spam/Abuse check mark is not. And as @Matthew noted, the Flag creates a whole new thread, visible only to the moderators while the check mark does not. Think of it like smacking your sibling as opposed to running and telling Mom. Used with discretion, each is a worthwhile tool to help the community manage itself. Used with abandon, they will result in hurt feelings and/or overworked volunteer staff.

jadedanc

Is the rule still in place of not bumping items in Marketplace daily or even hourly? I thought it was every 3-4 days to bump but I am seeing others doing it to keep their sales post on top daily or even sooner than that.

Joseph

^ I would agree that bumping your marketplace thread every day for a while is annoying, and definitely excessive when it's hourly (if it's intentional). Having said that, as far as I know, there isn't any official marketplace thread bumping rule?

Pitfall69

So, I can't correct a certain someone for using "then" instead of "than"? Darn ;)

Pitfall69

Speaking of the "flags" is there a way to protest an abuse or spam flag? I have never "spammed" and the person who reported me was banned. Also, a certain @samiam391 thought it would be funny to report me for abuse ;)

Yellowcastle

This has been discussed before but I'm not @joseph so I can't tell you where.. Unfortunately, we have little to no control over user dings.

Yellowcastle

There is no bumping guideline or rule, per se. We might have to revisit this, though, and then add it to the rules for Darth Tensile. ;o)

Joseph

^^ Which part were you referring to, flagging, thread bumping, or both?

Pitfall69

^bumping. Yellowcastle has found it better to ignore me to see if I will go away. Roaco has decided to engage me. Let me tell you something; both ways are not going to work ;)

samiam391

Pitfall69 said:

I have never "spammed" and the person who reported me was banned.

^Bumping?.... I'm pretty sure that's spam, isn't it?

Pitfall69

I rarely "bump" my Marketplace threads more than once. I realize everyone wants to sell their "wares", but if someone is looking for something, I'm sure they will read through more than just the posts that show up on the main page.

EKSam

While we are on the "bumping" topic, is there any way to close a very old thread without "bumping" it back into existence?

rocao

Only moderators can close a thread. Occasionally we close them at a member's request. Closing a thread does not bump it. If it's very old thread that isn't active, what is the compelling reason to close it?

Matthew

^^ To add to what @rocao said, if there is a particular reason for an older thread to be closed, the best way to do it is to 'Flag' it using the link next to the datestamp, as that doesn't bump it.

EKSam

^^ No compelling reason whatsoever, sometimes old marketplace threads get bumped while requesting Mods to close it ( people get annoyed) so I was wondering if a pm to a mod might suffice. Glad to know 'Flag' should do the job more discreetly. Thanks @Mathew.

Since its a old thread of mine and pretty insignificant, I'll let the sleeping thread lie. The question was for my own education. Thanks for the answers.

EKSam

Uggh missed the edit timeframe yet again, so pardon this post.

@rocao I was aware that only moderators can close a thread. My initial post might have given you the impression that I wanted members to have thread shutting privileges:-). I can imagine chaos reigning supreme were that the case.:-).

I hope that made sense. :-)

Pitfall69

samiam391 said:

Pitfall69 said:

I have never "spammed" and the person who reported me was banned.

^Bumping?.... I'm pretty sure that's spam, isn't it?

Repeated "bumps" from a user that just created an account to sell their Lego and at one time...Star Wars posters, would be considered smamming. I do not do this Samuel :)

Pitfall69

I also believe that it is poor etiquette to post questions or make comments without reading most or all of a thread. I can understand not reading the Predictions thread, but time and time again, we would discuss a topic and move onto another and someone asks the very same question that was asked a page ago and was already addressed. It annoys me to no end.

Yellowcastle

^ that was clearly pointed out on Page 246 in the Discontinueds thread...

Pitfall69

It was?

CCC

It got moved to page 245 when some earlier posts were moved to another thread.

TheLoneTensor

What are people's feelings about the etiquette of people making comments without reading most or all of a thread? Anyone have any comments on this? Anyone annoyed by this?

LegoMom1

^Yes, it is annoying, but my main grievance is with posters who post several posts, one post after the other, in rapid succession, even though no one else has commented yet. These comments are usually mindless and appear to be posted for no other reason than for the poster to see his comments on the boards.

I'm not talking about adding a second comment (after the 6 minute edit has expired) directly under one's initial comment, something most of us have done when necessary and appropriate, I'm referring to one mindless comment after the previous, mindless comment, and then another and another, and sometimes another after that. One thread had 5 in a row. Even though I am a relatively new member, I've only been here for 3 months, I don't recall having seen this behavior until very recently. I do hope it can be discouraged as it has gone from annoying to very irritating in a very short amount of time. Am I the only one who has noticed this, or are there others who feel the same?

graphite

This thread is funny. Most of the things people don't like are nit picking and cause almost no grief whatsoever to anyone at all, but fixing those problems would cause a lot of grief on the moderators or cause lots of very restrictive rules that will not make the forum experience any better. Things like spammers and comments in poor taste are one thing but most of the other "problems" are just common occurrences on web forums when you're mixing people from all age ranges and backgrounds.

Give the moderators a break from extra work. They already spend all their time renaming threads, creating new ones from off shoot discussions and making content search friendly so that information is easy to find for all those people coming in and making threads asking questions already answered.