Banned from buying from LEGO S@H

Pitfall69

@LegoFanTexas

"People don't like you. Lego doesn't like you either. You better watch yourself. Lego has the reseller death sentence on 7 continents"

LegoFanTexas

:) Thanks, that made me smile...

Legoboy

:-)

y2josh

CCC said:

It may create ill will from you, but it might also create good will from other customers if they know that lego are now doing something about stopping resellers buying huge amounts direct from lego for resale.

It's worth noting that, at least as evinced by this thread, they're actually creating ill will amongst other paying customers that aren't resellers. And that's certainly not a good thing.

LegoFanTexas

Pitfall69 said:

@LegoFanTexas

"People don't like you. Lego doesn't like you either. You better watch yourself. Lego has the reseller death sentence on 7 continents"

"This little one's not worth the effort. Come, let me get you something."

CCC

y2josh said:

CCC said:

It may create ill will from you, but it might also create good will from other customers if they know that lego are now doing something about stopping resellers buying huge amounts direct from lego for resale.

It's worth noting that, at least as evinced by this thread, they're actually creating ill will amongst other paying customers that aren't resellers. And that's certainly not a good thing.

If you'd stop buying from them because of it, then go for it.

kylejohnson11

Hardrada said:

I'm sure they are aware of this. They are building a new plant in Hungary right now after all. Besides cost savings I'm sure they'll also increase capacity in the process. (And the new Chinese plant in a few years might help, too.)

***OFF TOPIC POST COMING***

I hope they are able to get ahead of the demand by a little bit with these plants going in.

A similar example is freeway expansion. I grew up in San Diego, CA. A lot of the freeways have been expanded over the years, by adding a lane or two to each side to meet the increase in traffic. By the time they finish expanding the freeway, there is already for further expansion and the initial traffic problem had not been resolved, although it hadn't been made worse..

Farmer_John

Hmmm...There are many older posts on different brickset threads stating that resellers aren't even a blip on TLG's screen; however, this thread (including some of those previous posters) now seem to be stating the opposite. Very interesting...

Legoboy

^ How right you are, although I'd say an awful lot has happened over recent months to a year. I'd say having an easy-to-follow forum with dedicated threads might have helped demonstrate just how rife it is.

prevere

^That, and how many "brick"-based home-growth websites have popped up? Quite a few. Add to all that, the media coverage on "Lego" as a potential investment.

LegoFanTexas

kylejohnson11 said:

A similar example is freeway expansion. I grew up in San Diego, CA. A lot of the freeways have been expanded over the years, by adding a lane or two to each side to meet the increase in traffic. By the time they finish expanding the freeway, there is already for further expansion and the initial traffic problem had not been resolved, although it hadn't been made worse..

We have the same problem here as well.

In my experience, governments do a lousy job of long term thinking, they invest for the next election cycle, not for the next generation.

In fairness to TLG, getting ahead of production demand is a challenge when you're growing 30% a year. It isn't a money problem, it is a forecasting problem.

They didn't want to start building 3 new factories 3 years ago hoping the demand would be there, what if it wasn't?

So I do get their problem. They want spare capacity, but not too much of it. If you're running at 50% capacity, then you're very inefficient.

LegoFanTexas

CCC said:

If you'd stop buying from them because of it, then go for it.

It isn't that black and white... It is shades of gray...

No, few people are unlikely to directly change their buying habits over this, but it does color opinions and thoughts, perhaps over time it causes people to pickup a second hobby, that becomes a first hobby.

It just takes some of the "glow" off the image of the company, by itself, maybe not too big a deal, but few companies just blow up one day, most fade away over time because of too many sour notes played over time.

HP (the computer company) is a great example of this, Yahoo! is another. How about Microsoft? They were the "it" company in the 90's, fighting off IBM and creating a great shift for the public from DOS to Windows. Then they got a bit full of themselves and few people think the same of them anymore.

Apple had it with Steve Jobs, but is starting to lose it now.

Catching a rainbow is a very hard thing to do, holding onto it, harder still.

Pitfall69

It doesn't make any sense. Most anything can be collectible and many things can be flipped for a profit. I know people who get video games at a considerable discount and flip them for a profit. He did the same thing when the PS3 came out. He stood in line for hours and bought a few and sold them the next day. I'm not going to rehash the pros and cons about resellers, but Lego is cutting their nose off to spite their face. $100,000??? May not be much in the big picture, but if they cut off 1000's of people spending that kind of money...I don't know.

Pitfall69

@LegoFanTexas. Did you have any VIP points left?

dougts

LegoFanTexas said:

kylejohnson11 said:

A similar example is freeway expansion. I grew up in San Diego, CA. A lot of the freeways have been expanded over the years, by adding a lane or two to each side to meet the increase in traffic. By the time they finish expanding the freeway, there is already for further expansion and the initial traffic problem had not been resolved, although it hadn't been made worse..

We have the same problem here as well.

In my experience, governments do a lousy job of long term thinking, they invest for the next election cycle, not for the next generation.

It's like bridges/overpasses. I can't tell you how many freeway overpasses I've seen in the last 5 years get completely torn down, and rebuilt from scratch (i assume for earthquake preparedness) and they build them all to accommodate the same number of lanes they did before. Even if you aren't going to widen the freeway right now, why wouldn't you build the bridge wider to accommodate a freeway widening 10 or 20 years down the line? the incremental cost can't be that much once you already are onsite with all the men and equipment.

gmpirate

^ yes, but you are thinking like a private citizen/business that has to be economically sound. The government thinks in other terms. Another bridge means another tax/bond issue and sustaining its growth by yet another project.

pharmjod

I think you could have just stopped with "yes, but you are thinking." No one in government ever thinks. After all, we must pass the bill so that we can know what is actually in the bill.

LegoFanTexas

Just an update, just got home from the local LEGO store, took my family, tonight was the Star Wars mini build.

They didn't have any problem selling to me, and I was able to use my $5 in VIP points to discount the items (so my VIP account works fine in store). I picked up basically what was in my canceled order from 4 weeks ago, about $300 worth of odds and ends, the sort of stuff I can't get from Amazon (the pencil holder, the salt and pepper shakers, the Technic sets, etc.)

The store employee who checked me out also told me that they expected B-Wing to be 50% off, but it wasn't a manager so take that with a ton of salt. I asked to put a B-Wing on hold, and they said it shouldn't be an issue, they had over 100 of them in back and it would be limited to 1 per person.

I personally still think it will be 20% off, I think the days of 50% LEGO prices in their brand stores are mostly over.

LegoFanTexas

gmpirate said:

^ yes, but you are thinking like a private citizen/business that has to be economically sound. The government thinks in other terms. Another bridge means another tax/bond issue and sustaining its growth by yet another project.

What would it take to get government to think in economically sound terms?

I guess it is hard to do that when they can just print money, but it sure would be nice sometimes.

oldtodd33

The problem with the politicians is that the money they are in charge of spending isn't theirs, they didn't do anything to earn it, so they don't respect it for what it is. They don't respect the constituents who had to go to work and earn it. If they did, they would see their responsibilities in a whole new light.

@LegoFanTexas After all of the orders you placed with S@H, you only had $5 worth of points to spend. I was waiting for you to say you had $10000 worth of points built up. You have burst my bubble.

LegoFanTexas

I never let them build up, why let them keep my money for free? Any time I ordered and had points, I always used them, except for double points days.

oldtodd33

^ I always let mine build up so I can feel like I got a steal when I do turn them in, but my paltry $115 in my account sounds like nothing compared to what I thought you might have. I might be able to get a free B-Wing if my luck holds for May 4th though.

LegoFanTexas

^ Nothing wrong with that if it makes you feel better, but keep in mind that if those $115 in VIP points were to disappear, you have no real recourse.

What if I had $10K in points saved up and LEGO decided to take them all away? There would be little I could do.

Hence, I just use them as I get them. The $15 in points I earned tonight will be spent on the B-Wing on the 4th.

dougts

^ when this whole reseller crackdown started a few months back, the first thing I did was redeem all my VIP points, and now I redeem them every time I buy. Last thing I want is to have my VIP account cancelled and all that money just go *poof*. Only time I don't spend them is during double VIP points

Hardrada

LegoFanTexas said:

I personally still think it will be 20% off, I think the days of 50% LEGO prices in their brand stores are mostly over.

10215 Obi-Wan's Jedi Starfighter last summer?

LegoFanTexas

^ That was 30% off, $69.99 if I recall...

Unless you had a local store special, or my mind is forgetting it.

Hardrada

I'm 99% sure that it was 50% off at least in Europe. Price was 13360 HUF (45 EUR now, probably a bit more back then) on Hungarian S@H which is about half of the European RRP as far as I can see.

samiam391

In any case.. I think everyone was waiting for at least 90% off before purchasing that set... LEGO dropped the ball a bit on that one.

oldtodd33

@LegoFanTexas I know and you are probably right, but I see no reason for Lego to take my points away from me. My wife always tells me I'm too trusting though.

An interesting thing the other day happened to me regarding Lego keeping track of our buying habits. I was talking to a Lego S@H service rep about an order that hasn't showed up yet and they started talking to me about it before I gave my name or any other information. I asked how they knew what I was talking about without me saying anything and was told that my phone number comes through their caller ID and automatically searches their system to find my last order and displays it for the rep before he/she connects to the phone.

Yes, I also remember 10215 being 50% off.

lulwut

10215 gets a lot of bad rep but it's still the reason why I'm buying UCS sets.

LegoFanTexas

Ditto on 10215, I don't know why it is so hated, I paid $75 for the copy I built and am very happy with it. Would have been less so at $99, but I still would have bought it.

It is a nice model and build, IMHO.

I'm planning to pickup the B-Wing Saturday morning and build it over the weekend, figure I need to actually build something that I buy, rather than add it to the closet to collect dust. :)

krklint

Am I wrong, but isn't Amazon an online only store? has Lego banned them from selling Lego? Nope? Oh... oh they haven't?

CCC

^ Amazon is in it's own category. Of course Lego will negotiate with the world's biggest online store to get their products on there.

Basta

krklint said:

Am I wrong, but isn't Amazon an online only store? has Lego banned them from selling Lego? Nope? Oh... oh they haven't?

Amazon is too big for TLG to have any real say on what they do. I'd imagine that Amazon & Walmart make up a very large % of TLG's wholesale purchases.

LegoFanTexas

krklint said:

Am I wrong, but isn't Amazon an online only store? has Lego banned them from selling Lego? Nope? Oh... oh they haven't?

Yes, but Amazon is considered a "national account", it is special.

I have no doubt that while TLG turns its nose up at me now, if I had $100 Million to spend, they would be selling to me.

cloaked7

If the Minecraft knee jerk reaction is correct, and it probably is... Then, LFT got banned as much, or more so, due to the Minecraft debacle than due to his actions? Well now, isn't that interesting, ironic, and sad. LEGO messed up big time and LFT eventually pays for it. They retroactively enact rules due to Minecraft. LFT being a known reseller gets caught in the crossfire, so to speak.

If LEGO ever has another Minecraft meltdown with another set there won't be ANY resellers available to magnify the debacle. Problem solved. Right? :-)

What a tangled web we weave.

CCC

^ No, not right. Because (i) there are always new resellers and (ii) some of the old and less honest ones will set up new accounts with different addresses to get round it.

Also, given the Lego store sold to him even though he was using his VIP points, their account system is pretty poor. Banned from buying stuff on S@H, yet the same account can buy from a store.

prevere

I suppose Lego's real long-term reaction to resellers is lot limits. Let's say B-Wing is 50% off on Saturday, and it's 1 per customer. That is a fair way for quantities to last a little longer otherwise. Amazon already does this for some sets.

Bandit

^ of course, if their goal is to clear out as many of these sets as possible, as has been rumored, setting a limit of 1 might not be very smart. I'm hoping for a limit of at least 2 or 3 or more...

CCC

If it is 50% off, then I'd imagine it would be a limit of 1. A headline discount like that, you want as many people as possible to benefit. I guess it depends on stock levels, but no doubt it would get posted on deals websites and everyone and their dog, even if not into lego, would be buying for resale.

cloaked7

^^ yeah, I agree. I was being sarcastic. Banning a reseller from S@H doesn't solve any problem. I understand that banning LFT doesn't fix the reseller 'problem'. I don't think LEGO understands.

Just look at ammo in the U.S. right now if you want to see resellers gone wild. The only way to rebut resellers is to have lots of inventory available for a long time. As is mentioned, that is contradictory to LEGOS business model.

prevere

cloaked7 said:

...contradictory to LEGOS business model.

And to that, the "retiring soon" label. (If they are going after / trying to reduce reselling).

dragonhawk

CCC said:

...
Also, given the Lego store sold to him even though he was using his VIP points, their account system is pretty poor. Banned from buying stuff on S@H, yet the same account can buy from a store.

This is probably due to the fact that it is pretty embarassing to get refusal of service in store in front of your kids, family, and/or friends. It is quite different than being told no via personal email. It is bad business to embarass anyone (even resellers) in public.

Farmer_John

I was just imagining the discussions in one of TLG's Senior Management meetings:

"Regarding the recent Minecraft debacle, we can quickly resolve all future problems by closing LFT's account...All in favor, say 'aye'...and the aye's have it. Next agenda item...hording of Series 10 CMFs can be dramatically increased by only releasing 5000 Mr. Golds worldwide....All in favor?

Someone pass the schnapps! Burp!"

Canuck42

prevere said:

cloaked7 said:

...contradictory to LEGOS business model.

And to that, the "retiring soon" label. (If they are going after / trying to reduce reselling).

Even more ironic, the admins at the brickpicker site posted that TLG just sent them the official list of sets on sale and what not for the big 4th sale, so their on TLGs 'list'. TLG is actively trying to combat reselling, yet has a site solely devoted to the greedy nature of mass reselling on their privileged list and gives them sensitive information. (face palm)

cloaked7

^ ROTFL....

Ahem....maybe LFT got 'the list' too. That would make it fair, wouldn't it?

Also, the B-Wing is listed as Retiring Soon. Oh wait a minute, it isn't. D0h!

I think we're trapped in a No Logic zone. Scotty beam us outta here! Then, warp something, and be quick about it!

LegoFanTexas

prevere said:

I suppose Lego's real long-term reaction to resellers is lot limits. Let's say B-Wing is 50% off on Saturday, and it's 1 per customer. That is a fair way for quantities to last a little longer otherwise. Amazon already does this for some sets.

And I think that is perfectly reasonable.

The consumer in me wants 1 to build.

The reseller in me wants 50 to resell.

Clearly the consumer should be taken care of first, the reseller comes second. If the needs of the reseller interfere with the needs of the consumer, then the reseller has to take a back seat.

I'm perfectly ok with this and I totally understand it. Just tell me the rules of the game so I can play.

BeardedCastleGuy

I'd say that @legofantexas got a raw deal out of them applying their online ban criteria retroactively. When you follow the rules they supply then it shouldn't turn into a 'we're going to ban you anyways' situation.
Depending upon the State and it's various laws it might be harder to come up with a viable, legal reason to bar in store purchases. If you forgo the VIP card and pay cash it'd be very hard to track purchases as well. Not that I'm saying LFT would do so, just that doing such is very possible. Also because LEGO operates in a number of jurisdictions and they appear to ensure consistency from store to store they may have set policy to the 'lowest common denominator' of laws relevant to where they operate.
So effectively what they're doing is mildly reducing the number of resellers by a few and claiming victory. Sadly the they're only going to stop the one that play by the rules , the others will play the account shell-game and likely still have the same level of negative impact on LEGO.

@oldtodd33 many customer service telephone lines use such software/databases these days, it saves the service rep time. I try to not let VIP points build up too much as who knows when a policy will change, a computer will go boom etc.

CCC

BeardedCastleGuy said:

So effectively what they're doing is mildly reducing the number of resellers by a few and claiming victory.

Where have lego claimed victory?

They probably know that they cannot stop all reselling of current sets, since control of customers from all other stores which they supply is virtually impossible. But what they can do is stop known resellers (to them) buying from them direct, which is what they have done at S@H. There is no victory to be had, all they can do (if they cannot for whatever reason produce more of what is in high demand quickly) is try to make the stocks they have reach consumers rather than resellers.

LegoFanTexas said:

The consumer in me wants 1 to build.

The reseller in me wants 50 to resell.

Clearly the consumer should be taken care of first, the reseller comes second. If the needs of the reseller interfere with the needs of the consumer, then the reseller has to take a back seat.

I'm perfectly ok with this and I totally understand it. Just tell me the rules of the game so I can play.

I think lego S@H have made the rules clear, even if half way through the game. They know you are a reseller and resellers are no longer allowed to play.

cloaked7

BeardedCastleGuy said:

Depending upon the State and it's various laws it might be harder to come up with a viable, legal reason to bar in store purchases.

I'm no legal expert, but I think a retailer or store owner can ban an individual from purchases, or from even entering their store, and don't have to explain or justify it in any way. A seller can't be made to sell to a customer if they don't want to.