Banned from buying from LEGO S@H

Yellowcastle

LFT has authorized me to publish his website. Let's keep it civil folks.

Link

momof2boys99

roxio said:

momof2boys99 said:

I just want to know who is hiding in the closet right now?? Who else is banned? It can't only be LFT and I. Come on out....it's a friendly thread.

I've been banned by UK Toysrus

I am sorry. :o(

momof2boys99

LegoFanTexas said:

I have received PMs from other sellers who have been banned, but don't want to be publicly called out here.

So yes, others have been affected. How big that number is I don't know, but I suspect it is in the hundreds if I know of several others here alone.

Yes....it is too bad. I think there are quite a few of us.

DadsAFOL

Yellowcastle said:

LFT has authorized me to publish his website. Let's keep it civil folks.

Link

Are you suggesting everyone needs to mellow out?

Crowkillers

LegoFanTexas said:

Most of what I do is buy and resell in a year or two once the sets are retired. I still have a few Imperial Flagships in stock for example, and I've got a large stack of Imperial Shuttles that I'm waiting for the price to rise on, that sort of thing.

The short term flip does happen, Minecraft and Lloyd are the best two examples, but that isn't the overall business plan, that is just making a few extra dollars when the chance comes along.

If you are paying full price for the sets, I really don't see what the big deal is...

If it wasn't for resellers(or people willing to sell their sets), new people that get into Lego(or into new themes) wouldn't be able to get the sets that are not available anymore..

Now I am sure some people might say "Well it is because of resellers that sets are not available" but that isn't true because it is inevitable that Lego is going to retire sets and clearance them out at some point..

If someone is willing to risk their own money on a possible future profit by paying full price for something, where is the harm being done..?

princedraven

Just another thought that has sprung to mind:
@LegoFanTexas
What was the 'personal order' you placed which got cancelled?

Just thinking if they had on record that you had already bought 200 FB's and 50 Petshops and then your 'personal order' which is within the customer limits is for:
2 x FB's
2 x Petshops
1 x Death Star
etc

Then they are probably within their rights to consider this is in fact to add to your 'company stock'.

JP3804

@princedraven
Read the first post.

princedraven

^ Ooops yes, you are right, I had forgotten that all by now :-)

Sorry was just trying to consider all options.

Crowkillers

Spending $1,500 buying 10 of the same set is forbidden, but is ok to spend $1,500 buying 500 minifigs in hopes of finding a rare Mr Gold...

Lego doesn't want people reselling their product, but what do they expect people to do with quadruples, quintuples, or sextuplets of the same figure that they were forced to buy in hopes of finding one rare figure..?

Here is a situation where I am sure they don't care...

Diggydoes

^On s@h Germany you're only allowed to buy 16 CMF's within one order!

Crowkillers

Diggydoes said:

^On s@h Germany you're only allowed to buy 16 CMF's within one order!

Yeah, within one order, but what is to stop someone from placing multiple orders..? Lego knows the chances of anyone getting one Mr Gold in only 16 minifigs is near impossible, they are counting on people buying 100's of them just to hopefully get one...

A few weeks ago there was a seller on Ebay from Germany that had multiple Mr Gold figures... This same seller also had multiple complete sets of the series 10 minifigs for sale...

y2josh

Crowkillers said:

If it wasn't for resellers(or people willing to sell their sets), new people that get into Lego(or into new themes) wouldn't be able to get the sets that are not available anymore..

Not that there's really anything that can be done about it, but this is a fair point to consider. Though I doubt there's any real means of acquiring data that would be even close to accurate, maybe TLG believes that the continued availability of retired sets... especially en masse... has a significant impact on their bottom line.

Just as a hypothetical, let's say Fire Brigade finally retires and it somehow goes up to $300-ish by the following Christmas. Now let's suppose Joe Consumer comes along and says, "That Fire Brigade is really cool. I think I'll buy that." Yes, TLG has already made its profit off that Fire Brigade, but is Joe Consumer buying that Fire Brigade in addition to or instead of some number of current sets? The latter is likely to be an issue so far as TLG is concerned and, although there's no real way to curb that activity (or to show that's what's happening to begin with), I imagine it's a point they've taken into consideration to some degree.

The_Mack

LegoFanTexas said:

legodork said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there is indeed a clause about a prohibition on reselling merchandise purchased from S@H buried in superfine font where no reasonable person can find.

Actually, no, believe it or not, there isn't... read back to the start of the thread, this issue was discussed. The Europe version of S@H does have that rule, but the USA version does not.

So there is no published rule about it in the USA, it wasn't until S@H customer service sent an e-mail that the "rule" was established.

This is in the LEGO VIP Terms and Conditions..
Misuse of the program includes, but is not limited to, excessive and unnecessary returns or refunding and excessive variations to purchasing or ship to locations. The LEGO Group reserves the right to cancel or remove points which have been issued to a members account by mistake or due to a system or human error. The LEGO Group will not tolerate knowing misuse of the system when/if an error in the number of points occurs, and such misuse can lead to termination of the members account and a ban from future use. Members who refuse requests to return illegitimate product purchases may face legal action.

That's been in there before the banning, because I remember reading it a long time ago.

y2josh

^I don't believe any of that applies to LFT's case... but I could be crazy.

LegoFanTexas

^ No, I think that has more to do with drop shipping and excessive returns. The excessive variations to purchase locations or ship locations, such as having people in different states using the same VIP account with bill to addresses all over the place.

All of my purchases were from the same billing and same ship-to address, from the same account, from the same computer, using all credit cards in my name that also bill to the same address as the ship-to.

I have never once drop shipped anything, to anyone.

Just thought I'd clear that up. :)

tamamahm

Agreed. That is not in reference to volume purchased.

The_Mack

^ The way I read the legalize is that, if you abuse the system, you will be banned. Excessive variations to purchasing. If you're buying a bunch of stuff and turning around to sell it to gain VIP points. We're going to ban you.

LegoFanTexas

The_Mack said:

^ The way I read the legalize is that, if you abuse the system, you will be banned. Excessive variations to purchasing. If you're buying a bunch of stuff and turning around to sell it to gain VIP points. We're going to ban you.

It isn't purchasing that is the issue in that legalize, it is purchase locations.

Either purchase locations
or
ship to locations

What they don't want is the same VIP account to be used by buyers in California, Texas, Florida, New York, etc. They are avoiding "shared VIP accounts" this way.

The_Mack

http://shop.lego.com/en-US/VIP click terms and conditions...

Listed under Expiration and Cancellation..Part 5..

Misuse of the program includes, but is not limited to, excessive and unnecessary returns or refunding and excessive variations to purchasing or ship to locations.

LegoFanTexas

^ You read it one way, I read it another. :)

I'm not a lawyer, but I've read my fair share of legal contracts.

If nothing else, it isn't written very well, even worse, it doesn't actually explain what "excessive" is.

So saying that I broke a rule is pushing it for several reasons. First, it is debatable what that actually means. Second, even if it means what you think it means, then we can debate "excessive".

If it simply said, "no purchasing more than the allowed limit in a single order", then there would be no problem with understanding. :)

Bumblepants

I for one, am just so excited this topic made it back to the first page. I hope people keep saying more things.

The_Mack

^ Sure, and that's why lawyers get paid what they do. Because they argue how laws are interpreted.

But TLG kind of cover the bases with.

4. Failure to meet or observe any of the above terms and conditions, or intentional misuse of this program, may result in membership termination with immediate effect at the sole discretion of the LEGO Group.

It's like TLG saying hey, we don't like the way you're using the system. Sooo we're going to ban you.

Mad_Dog

The_Mack said:

^ Sure, and that's why lawyers get paid what they do. Because they argue how laws are interpreted.

But TLG kind of cover the bases with.

4. Failure to meet or observe any of the above terms and conditions, or intentional misuse of this program, may result in membership termination with immediate effect at the sole discretion of the LEGO Group.

It's like TLG saying hey, we don't like the way you're using the system. Sooo we're going to ban you.

But, if I am not wrong, LFT VIP account has not been cancelled...so...

Rgrds

1265

The_Mack said:

^ Sure, and that's why lawyers get paid what they do. Because they argue how laws are interpreted.

But TLG kind of cover the bases with.

4. Failure to meet or observe any of the above terms and conditions, or intentional misuse of this program, may result in membership termination with immediate effect at the sole discretion of the LEGO Group.

It's like TLG saying hey, we don't like the way you're using the system. Sooo we're going to ban you.

I read and interpret as @LFT does. However, each has their own opinion.

Since this verbiage falls under the LEGO VIP Terms and Condition, what if @LFT cancels his VIP membership, do you think LEGO will allow him to purchase as he did in the past? Or if someone else, without being a VIP, be allowed to make purchases as @LFT did? I think not in both situations.

LegoFanTexas

Mad_Dog said:

But, if I am not wrong, LFT VIP account has not been cancelled...so...

Rgrds

That is correct, I still have it and was able to recently use it in the LEGO store, so that still working. Even the S@H customer service rep said I was still welcome in the store.

Oh well, I think at this point we are unlikely to hear from TLG directly, and while I appreciate the offers to contact the Ambassador program reps, I suspect they aren't even in the same building as the S@H people, huge corporation, left and right hands and all that stuff. :)

Yellowcastle

Yeah, as much as I like to see this conversation continue, the VIP program rules really don't apply here.

ufjason

Wow, this thread is huge. Can't believe it got this far. So, TLG is trying to fight online resellers from purchasing from their consumer website. If you had purchasing habits of a reseller or have an address identified as a business you got a letter sent out asking to stop and go through TLG's independent dealer system. The independent dealer system isn't independent internet dealer friendly. Unfortunately, when these resellers attempt to make a regular personal purchase, they find they've been banned completely.

Unfair, yes. Unreasonable, maybe but that's how policies work. TLG not willing to work in a grey area and take a closer look to make exceptions to personal purchases via phone order, disappointing.

In the end, I'd simply work around their ban. Get your significant other to make orders and have them sent to a different address. If you pay tax anyways, just go to the local store and get your limit of 5. Annoying but a simple solution.

Pitfall69

The_Mack said:

http://shop.lego.com/en-US/VIP click terms and conditions...

Listed under Expiration and Cancellation..Part 5..

Misuse of the program includes, but is not limited to

, excessive and unnecessary returns or refunding and excessive variations to purchasing or ship to locations.

I read excessive variations as using more than one account to circumvent purchasing limits. Had it read excessive purchases, then that would mean something
different.

Pitfall69

ufjason said:

Wow, this thread is huge. Can't believe it got this far. So, TLG is trying to fight online resellers from purchasing from their consumer website. If you had purchasing habits of a reseller or have an address identified as a business you got a letter sent out asking to stop and go through TLG's independent dealer system. The independent dealer system isn't independent internet dealer friendly. Unfortunately, when these resellers attempt to make a regular personal purchase, they find they've been banned completely.

Unfair, yes. Unreasonable, maybe but that's how policies work. TLG not willing to work in a grey area and take a closer look to make exceptions to personal purchases via phone order, disappointing.

In the end, I'd simply work around their ban. Get your significant other to make orders and have them sent to a different address. If you pay tax anyways, just go to the local store and get your limit of 5. Annoying but a simple solution.

I believe LFT buys his Lego tax free, then pays the state back the sales tax on any item that someone purchases from him. I don't know if TLG accepts his tax exempt status though.

LegoFanTexas

Pitfall69 said:

I believe LFT buys his Lego tax free, then pays the state back the sales tax on any item that someone purchases from him. I don't know if TLG accepts his tax exempt status though.

TLG does not accept my tax exempt status, but that is ok, I keep the receipts and the state credits me back.

Pitfall69

Ok. We have gone all over the place in this thread. I didn't mean to comment about tax exemption. I guess, if the state credits you back, you are fine just going into your Lego store to make purchases. Although, I thought I remembered you saying that at one store you are not welcome.

rocao

LegoFanTexas said:

:) And people here say that TLG doesn't pay attention to or care about the aftermarket... :)

Or maybe they don't, perhaps they only care about current set resellers?

I've previously stated my belief that TLG is mindful of the aftermarket but don't actively try to manipulate it.

TLG being very vocal in stating that discounted sets are not for resale is not so much a concern about what effect it will have on the gray market (retired or not). TLG simply wishes that discounted sets offered to fans be used as intended: personal use and offered in recognition of and to help lessen the expense of the hobby. If someone resells the set, it reduces it to a simple monetary gift. I've been similarly disappointed in the past when I sold sets to friends at cost thinking I was helping them with their personal collecting only to find out that their sole intent was to resell them.

Sethro3

I can understand the competition aspect of it to discourage reselling, but how do they actually prove it? I purchased multiple copies of a lot of sets, but I never re-sold anything. I've opened and built or used every copy I've ever purchased. How is that any different from someone buying multiple copies for resale? How do they actually prove it?

That does seem ridiculous to basically be banned from buying more LEGO for the "risk" of reselling, even if you are honest and don't plan to do that on many of your orders.

CCC

^ in the known cases, you either tell them you are selling or you spend $50k.

Bosstone100

When the Alien Conquest stuff was cut to half price, I wanted to purchase 10x #7049 Alien Striker sets at the Lego store but they wouldn't sell me five. Oddly enough, they suggested my wife sign up for a VIP account to buy the other five. When I bought 10x #7050 Alien Defender sets from the Lego site for half price, they had no problem. I'm guessing it was because I had no prior history of buying multiple of the same set.

At that price, they make great army builders.