Banned from buying from LEGO S@H

LegoFanTexas

I'm not used to getting the middle finger from a large corporation, but it seems like it in this case.

A few weeks ago I placed an order at Shop @ Home, my first order in over a month. Nothing major, just a few of the new items, all qty 1, nothing I had purchased before.

Some of you may recall that I received an e-mail a few months ago from them saying that re-sellers are not allowed to purchase items from them for the purpose of resale. Fine, so I haven't, I stopped placing orders on their site.

What was in this evil order I placed a few weeks ago?

The new Salt & Pepper Set, the Friends Pencil holder, a few Technic sets, a city set, and a few Friends sets.

Qty 1 of everything, total order amount was about $300. When I didn't see a shipping e-mail 2 weeks later, I e-mailed them back for the status since it didn't show on their web site, here is their reply:

--------------------

Thank you for your interest in LEGO® brand toys. We are always delighted to hear from a loyal LEGO enthusiast.

We will be more than happy to explain what happen to your order xxxxxxxxx. Looking into your order we have cancelled it. It seems that the contact information is a known to be a reseller. However we do have good news, you able to contact our Independent Toy Dealer Department who would be happy to discuss purchasing large amounts of LEGO further. You are able to call them at 1-800-673-0360.

Thank you again for contacting us. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email or call one of our friendly Customer Care Advisors at 1-800-835-4386 (from within the US or Canada)

--------------------

Ok, so I did reply, as they asked. That was 11 days ago. Here was my reply:

--------------------

It would have been nice if I had received an e-mail about the cancellation, I was expecting those to arrive.

As for being a reseller, yes, I do resell LEGO, but you'll notice that I did not order 5 of this and 10 of that, I ordered 1 each of a few items for personal use. Since being informed that you don't want me buying items for resale, I have stopped doing it (you'll notice my order history over the past month or two is almost nothing, compared to last year when it was a lot).

Am I no longer welcome to place any order, at all, even for personal consumption?

--------------------

11 days later (very long for LEGO customer service, and no reply at all.

While I might not agree with their rules for their site, I did comply with them, I stopped placing orders for resale. In the past 2 years, I've spent over $100,000 on their site and in their local store, in the past 2 months, this was my first order.

I'm just a bit shocked that they have taken this attitude, that if I resell anything, then I must be banned outright because... I guess I'm evil in their eyes...

Sheesh...

SirKevbags

Considering the new rules that have been handed down to LUG members in recent months re the Showcase rewards and AFOL day I can't say I'm surprised. I think someone high within the structure has a major re selling issue and is using the sledgehammer to crack the nut.

jockosjungle

Why not give the bulk buy number a ring and order yourself a Salt n Pepper set and see what they say?

It seems a little harsh, but I suppose they cannot go through every sale to decide if you want to resell them or not, or indeed have the argument every time you order anything.

Basta

That's full on, especially if you haven't "breached" their some what over the top rules, it always amazes me that companies don't want to sell products to some people. I understand not liking people who get around purchase limits etc as that potentially gives TLG bad press (i.e little Timmy missing out etc.)

Hopefully someone at TLG will come to there senses and lifts your ban, at least for personal use. If not im sure you can find a friend or family member who likes to buy you Lego gifts.

Basta

jockosjungle said:

Why not give the bulk buy number a ring and order yourself a Salt n Pepper set and see what they say?

It seems a little harsh, but I suppose they cannot go through every sale to decide if you want to resell them or not, or indeed have the argument every time you order anything.

I think they want him to register as a seller which requires a whole lot of stuff, and then you get minimum purchase requirements etc.

Also I think the Point LFT is making is that he has followed all their requests and warnings etc, but they still went ahead and banned him.

LostInTranslation

Basta said:

it always amazes me that companies don't want to sell products to some people.

As Kevbags said, TLG are really on a campaign at the moment to stop resellers. Eg AFOLs who go to the discount hour cannot buy more than one copy of an exclusive set. How silly is that?! People who are recognised as fans of Lego, usually LUG members, who support the company, cannot do *what Lego themselves suggest* and buy 2 Horizon Expresses, because Lego thinks that the 15% discount is enough to make all buyers decide to resell.

Hardrada

Even though TLG is wonderful to its customers and has one of the best customer services, all I hear from ITD partners is how they are being bullied around all the time by TLG. Not getting the exact quantities ordered even when they were shown as available, having to order exclusive sets 6 months (!!) in advance, etc. The latter basically means that the toy shop owner has to predict demand 6 months in advance and that he gets stuff half a year later than bigger partners. (For example if an exclusive becomes non-SH exclusive, it shows up on Amazon and so on right away. The toy shop on the other hand has to wait another half a year.)

Also this going after resellers thing is just so pitiful. As most smaller reseller businesses are run by AFOLs this will surely cost TLG goodwill among the fan community. Also it being easier and more profitable to buy your stock on sales in big retail chains just tells how not-so-good conditions and prices they offer to ITDs.

yys4u

minecraft backlash?

cheshirecat

Yes - and understandably so. I remember seeing a UK seller on ebay who'd sold over 180 of them and I'm sure that wasn't the most. With the black Friday scratch cards there were a number buying 5 at a time for the short time I was in the store.

LEGO can't stand by and do nothing. People took the piss with minecraft and now, as LIT says even normal AFOLs are suffering - but to me its an understandable reaction and if the choice is 15% off 1 of each exclusive four times a year or no more AFOL days then I'll happily take the new limitation.

leemcg

Sounds a little Yes Prime Minister @cheshirecat. We must do something, this is something, let's do it. :-)

It's not at all obvious to me that any of the changes they've made recently would stop Minecraft again, which was surely a function of Lego completely underestimating the popularity of the set and not making as many as they could sell.

To be honest, my big frustration with the recent changes is that they seem to be a global edict, for global consistency, but we don't have global consistency of external retailers. If Amazon.co.uk sold exclusives as soon as pretty much all of the other amazon sites, then 15% off would be an irrelevance and Lego Brand stores could be for tourists and PaB.

monkeyhanger

Lego create their own issues, they seriously underestimated the market for minecraft. If they hadn't there wouldn't have been a reseller market for them as the set would have been freely available. Why not sell to anyone but limit the quantities (easily done when you're an online retailer, saving for the most devious of multiple account holders that have a wide variety of postal addresses) so you can't physically do what they don't want you to do (resell in meaningful numbers).

To exclude a customer from buying single quantities of freely available sets that they haven't bought before through the same retail channel is just plain daft. It would imply t me that TLG can't be sure of having a filter that works well enough to flag patterns of buying to resell like cross referencing your intended purchase with your previous purchase to ensure you haven't bought 20x before.

SirKevbags

Despite what we hear from the CEE team and other reputable sources the biggest reason for for this "crackdown" is simply because they can. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to be justified.

To throw AFOL'S who spend a great deal of time and money producing store display models in with re sellers who shifted hundreds of Minecraft sets is rediculous. However both groups are being penalised.

cheshirecat

^ and ^^, I agree, TLG aren't blameless in all this but relatively I wouldn't put too much blame on them. It was the first cuusoo set to go world wide, it was a set like no other. It would have been extremely hard to predict how popular it would be (even though it reached 10,000 votes quickly - votes != sales).

Yet all the downside hit TLG - bad experiences for customers unable to get a set through their own channels compounded by 3x rrp on ebay. Whilst some producers might like the hype I'm certain LEGO aren't that kind of producer and with their increasingly important (online and retail stores) retailer hat on they would hate it.

Im also not sure their response is daft. If we take it for granted that what we're seeing is an anti-reseller stance then why would they care about LFT's occasional 'consumer' purchases. It might seem harsh, it might seem unfair but in terms of sales its totally insignificant and sends a clear message to the more hobbyist resellers who might (especially in the UK/Europe) be seriously put out by not being able to buy from S@H. It also means they just auto-cancel rather than wasting time looking into what has been purchased. You can agree or disagree with their seeming anti-reseller stance, but once they have it it makes much more sense to just block any known reseller than investigate each and every sale. Where do you draw the line - 2 of something, 1 of something purchased before? 1 of something on a special deal that they may have bought from a lego store before or a walmart or toys-r-us. Just cancel them all is much easier and also a simpler position to defend.

Lets also be frank, buying through the retail channel for resale was always against their T&C (at least in UK) even before any letters were sent out.

@leemcg - I hope you are referring to the 80's original not the 2013 revival?

legomatt

Do I dare throw in the 'Mr Gold' grenade to this conversation?

It just seems a bit hypocritical of TLG.

If TLG are going to take a stance on suspected re-seller activities, why oh WHY go make a product that causes whole cases of stock to be bought from stores in one visit, and worse, make him detectable even for people with no interest in lego whatsoever to be able to pick him out in the storeroom and deny the lego fan the fun of the intended hunt.

I mean, come on TLG, you can't have it both ways... creating detectable rare collectables while demanding people stop trading/selling other stuff when you under-produce a hit product?

Ok that was slightly off topic, but was my first thought. (and i don't even sell lego).

cheshirecat

^ Totally agree, they've handled the Mr Gold thing so badly its untrue. All i would say is - they're not demanding people stop trading/selling other stuff, they're just saying - if you are a reseller not a consumer don't use their retail channels (as described in the T&C). I just don't see a major problem with that. And lets be honest, I haven't heard of a mostly consumer, part time reseller being hit with this kind of action. By LFT's own admission he's spent over $100,000 over the last two years so thats clearly primarily a business not a consumer.

leemcg

@cheshirecat, obviously. I managed to bear about 2 minutes of the revival. Terrible.

legomatt

On topic - Having just read the whole thread properly - I'm not sure what to think. But it would seem the simplest way to combat resellers (if that's the idea) would be to put a purchase limit on all items, wouldn't it?

I dunno. It's... just... confusing, i don't know what to think... i need a cup of Tea.

TheLoneTensor

I'm guessing that when they finally put in the thresholds (whatever they may be), you were already above them, meaning that no matter however "good" you acted since the announcement made no difference as you were already mechanically blacklisted.

That said, I think it's ridiculous to do such a hard cutoff. I've said Amazon does it best with restricting sales and others should follow suit. Let a user get a few of a hot and/or discounted set, then make them wait a week and let them get more if there is still stock. This allows most everyone to have fair access to sets.

I think what's happening is Lego doesn't want people making a living off this. They probably don't care (or realize they can't stop) the reseller with a ~$10k inventory, but decide that they are simply losing control to those that operate at the next decimal level.

It'll be interesting to know what exactly the limits are that label you a reseller. Me, I'd not be a bit surprised if the B-wing does end up 50% on 5/4, and a bunch of people end up getting blacklisted when they try to buy a dozen of them.

prevere

That's quite a post LFT.

I wonder what gets one on the "naughty" re-sellers list? Quantity purchased? Or just simply saying yes, if asked about reselling?

LegoFanTexas

legomatt said:

On topic - Having just read the whole thread properly - I'm not sure what to think. But it would seem the simplest way to combat resellers (if that's the idea) would be to put a purchase limit on all items, wouldn't it?

I agree, and I have no problem with that. All my orders in the past two years have gone to a single address, I don't play the "multiple account/address game", trying to bypass limits like on Minecraft. I bought what I could, and moved on.

I may not like purchase limits, but I do understand them, and at the end of the day, it is LEGO's web site and their rules, so I'll play by them.

If LEGO said, "only 1 per item", then ok, fine, that would be that. However as someone else pointed out, that might be a bit harsh, after all, sets like Horizon Express and Joust, LEGO actually encourages you to buy 2x of them to put together.

Also, I have 3 kids, so some smaller items like the pencil holder I might like 3 of just to give 1 to each kid, however in this case I would like 1 of the Friends model and 2 of the regular model since I have 1 girl and 2 boys.

Most LEGO sets I can get cheaper from Amazon, Target, or Walmart... But items like the Salt and Pepper shakers, the pencil holders, and Technic, I might as well buy direct from LEGO since those are hard to find elsewhere (Technic being a TRU exclusive and often marked up).

CurvedRoadPlate

LFT, are you banned from making in store purchases as well? Are you on the Lego no fly list?

LegoFanTexas

tensor said:

I'm guessing that when they finally put in the thresholds (whatever they may be), you were already above them, meaning that no matter however "good" you acted since the announcement made no difference as you were already mechanically blacklisted.

Probably correct...

I'm going to call them this afternoon and talk to them on the phone about this and see if I can't get the block removed. I'll see if I can't get a human to look at my 2 months of order history to see that I've stopped trying to place large orders and assure them I will not do so again.

tensor said:

That said, I think it's ridiculous to do such a hard cutoff. I've said Amazon does it best with restricting sales and others should follow suit. Let a user get a few of a hot and/or discounted set, then make them wait a week and let them get more if there is still stock. This allows most everyone to have fair access to sets.

I completely understand Amazon's approach on this. As a consumer, I'm happy about it because if a set that I want to buy and build, it is easier for me to get when it goes on sale. As a reseller, of course I don't like it, but since I'm not going to stop buying from Amazon over it, Amazon is smart to put the policy in place to not piss off many regular customers.

tensor said:

I think what's happening is Lego doesn't want people making a living off this. They probably don't care (or realize they can't stop) the reseller with a ~$10k inventory, but decide that they are simply losing control to those that operate at the next decimal level.

You may well be right... The problem with that thinking is that this new policy isn't going to stop it. There are enough places to get LEGO from that being cut off from S@H isn't going to prevent me from doing business as a LEGO reseller.

If they want some control over what I do, then make it easier to become a ITD and provide me with decent service, then they would have a measure of control over me.

tensor said:

It'll be interesting to know what exactly the limits are that label you a reseller. Me, I'd not be a bit surprised if the B-wing does end up 50% on 5/4, and a bunch of people end up getting blacklisted when they try to buy a dozen of them.

If it is 50% off, I'd sure like to buy one, as I posted in other threads, I don't yet own this set, so I would buy one for myself. If the rule is no reselling, then fine, I'll just buy the one. But if I can't even do that, I think that is pretty low on LEGO's part. After all, I'm a huge fan of LEGO, I have 2 rooms in my house dedicated just to LEGO, so I'm not just in it for the money, I love building and collecting as well, as do my 3 kids and wife.

But it is their sandbox, so they can do what they want. :)

lulwut

It's what happens you put yourself on their radar. People complaining how they did not get promotional items with every separate order they put in is the least of their problems.

cloaked7

Just taking away that it's LEGOS, reselling of them, etc. I think it's simply wrong for any person, or company, to punish someone for things they did in the past IF in a past the action was OK. If there was a known rule in the past and it was broken that is different. But, that doesn't seem to be the case. Also, it seems like a rule was not broken until they just happened to deem is as such, then mentioned it. I may be missing something. As mentioned, regardless of everything else, that just doesn't seem fair to me.

prevere

Banning someone after dropping $100k with your company just sounds plain dumb.

SiE

I find it amusing that Lego are turning sales of mass quantity down. Resellers are not having a negative effect on current sales, they are basically stockpiling older sets to sell in the future, a market lego dont want to get involved in. The resellers are actually driving a much bigger market as the toy is becoming more and more collectable. By reducing reselling they are actually going to drive ebay prices up and reduce the profit they are making on current sales due to less sales. Minecraft was a one off and completely caused by a lack of stock. The bubble is definately bursting for resellers although I have had that feeling for the past 6 months.

I think Lego's biggest worry is 3d printing. If I was them I would want a big as possible market of collectable sets out there to encourage people to want the real thing. If people suddenly start printing copies of 10179 or the next big discontinued set because there are no MISB sets out there then a worrying trend could begin.

LegoFanTexas

Ahh, they finally replied. Must have read this thread. :)

Here is their reply (shortened to take off top and bottom bits)

-------------------------

I am so sorry that your order was cancelled, due to our new policy with resellers. I know how upsetting and frustrating this must be for you. The only way to purchase any of our product in the future, would need to be done through the number listed below or at your local toy shops.

To purchase large quantities of product please contact our Independent Toy Dealer Department who would be happy to discuss this further with you at 1-800-673-0360.

-------------------------

So that is that then...

LegoFanTexas

prevere said:

Banning someone after dropping $100k with your company just sounds plain dumb.

BTW, I have tried to setup a ITD account last year. Well, first I tried that, then I tried buying an existing one (the one that was posted here).

I offered a $50K opening order and $10K a month minimum, or a $150K annual minimum purchase, they were not interested. I asked if a million a year would be enough, they said no, that wasn't the issue. The issues were:

1. They don't want ITD who earn more than half of their revenue from LEGO. In other words, they want you to sell other toys and have LEGO be just part of your business.

2. They want you to have a brick and mortar store open to the public for regular hours, no Internet only sellers.

They have their large accounts like Amazon and Walmart, those are special, but for me to be a ITD they want my sales to be mostly other items and to have a local toy store.

Yea, like those exist anymore. :)

Oh well...

Hothgar

The ITD in our region is hugely non responsive

TheLoneTensor

SiE said:

I find it amusing that Lego are turning sales of mass quantity down. Resellers are not having a negative effect on current sales, they are basically stockpiling older sets to sell in the future, a market lego dont want to get involved in.

The problem is, when you are talking about hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars of inventory, that's something that Lego has to then "compete" with. As the aftermarket industry grows, it encroaches on the actual market of current Lego sets. I.e. if Joe Blow has money to spend on Lego, he can choose to buy new Lego, which helps the retailers and Lego, or he can buy old Lego, which helps only the reseller. The bigger the aftermarket, the more Lego loses control of their product stream and overall market share. As funny and ironic as it seems, at any given point, we essentially have Lego and the retailers all fighting against themselves from 2-3 years in the past. Of course they want to minimize that and apparently are taking active steps to do so.

SiE said:

I think Lego's biggest worry is 3d printing. If I was them I would want a big as possible market of collectable sets out there to encourage people to want the real thing. If people suddenly start printing copies of 10179 or the next big discontinued set because there are no MISB sets out there then a worrying trend could begin.

No way. Even companies with insanely deep R&D can't match the formula that is Lego which includes (at least) color, texture, opacity and most importantly, clutch. Then there's ink printing, stickers, etc. I highly doubt that a home 3D printer poses any sort of threat in all but the longest-term forecasts.

cheshirecat

The thing is I guess a lot of that 100k was not being kept in storage for a year, two or three but was being turned around pretty fast. At that point its in direct competition with Lego retail. Why would Lego be happy about that?

tamamahm

One thing to consider... if they have suddenly changed there policy to "we won't sell to any reseller, except via this means, even if they aren't putting in a reseller order", then perhaps they have also changed the ITD policies as well. I don't know how they can change the one, without changing the other.

Maybe try that route again, and if it fails, contact Lego again with a
- I can't buy via here
and
- I can't buy via there

As both an AFOL and a reseller, I want to know what my options are, since I should be able to buy sets for my personal use via some mechanism?



I really do think it is pretty insane to ban somebody that is actually playing by the rules. I do 'get' they probably banned based on past sales, instead of current sales, but I think I would rather see reasonable limits put in place, instead of an outright ban.

LegoFanTexas said:

prevere said:

Banning someone after dropping $100k with your company just sounds plain dumb.

BTW, I have tried to setup a ITD account last year. Well, first I tried that, then I tried buying an existing one (the one that was posted here).

I offered a $50K opening order and $10K a month minimum, or a $150K annual minimum purchase, they were not interested. I asked if a million a year would be enough, they said no, that wasn't the issue. The issues were:

1. They don't want ITD who earn more than half of their revenue from LEGO. In other words, they want you to sell other toys and have LEGO be just part of your business.

2. They want you to have a brick and mortar store open to the public for regular hours, no Internet only sellers.

They have their large accounts like Amazon and Walmart, those are special, but for me to be a ITD they want my sales to be mostly other items and to have a local toy store.

Yea, like those exist anymore. :)

Oh well...

yys4u

^Right I think @tamamahm has a good point. Maybe since they have changed their reseller policy recently, maybe the ITD rules have loosened up. I mean they told you to call them, so try again and explain the situation. You still have a potential to spend a lot of money with them, and if they don't find any way for you to do that, then all your money will be spent else were like Amazon or Walmart.

meyerc13

I'm not a reseller, don't particularly like most of them since they grab all the discontinued sets, gold minifigures, etc. before I have a chance at them... but even with that said I've got to say that it seems unfair they they come down so harshly on a guy who is trying to follow the rules, yet there are so many others out there who actively circumvent the rules if not outright break the law (drop shippers, those who steal minifigs from sets, etc.) and they don't seem to do much of anything about it.

I'd rather they spend more time and effort getting rid of the dishonest sellers and less time beating up someone who seems to be trying to play by their rules.

FenrisAkashi

LFT, I've seen a lot of your posts on the board here and agree with a lot of them but this one takes the cake.
considering you have done nothing wrong and are playing by the rules and getting completely shut down here most people would be angry and foaming at the mouth with bag things to say about the party who was in the wrong.
Your handling of this matter is stellar, and sadly for too uncommon. I salute you for it.

Its unfortunately S@H has come to this ; /

wagnerml2

How short a memory Lego has. It was just 7 or 8 years ago that the Batman sets were practically being given away by Lego and other retailers. Those sets became collectable and helped fuel the Lego aftermarket that is thriving today. It is the re-seller that helped get the market for lego where it is today. They need to be careful how they approach this as the aftermarket helps boost their sales. Cutting out or peeving off the AFOLs who do some bulk buying could help accelerate a weakening of their market. @LFT is much more calm than I am. I would be letting them have it right about now.

cloaked7

Yes LFT I feel for you. Just something about being done wrong.

Try to not let it get to you. It will all work out and you'll be better off due to this 'episode'. I'm sure you'll rise above it and it will eventually become a mere hiccup. From your posts I get the impression you're a 'good guy', and I bet you are. In the grand scheme of things this is nothing. Count your blessings, don't dwell on this. Gather some perspective and move on. Which I'm sure you will do. There are a lot people pulling for you! (Not trying to give you an counsel, advice or anything. Just speaking from the heart.)

BrickDancer

Isn't this a good point for the Ambassadors to discuss with TLG? The big players deserve to have their voices heard too, since TLG is not wanting to hear it from the individual themselves. LFT can't be the only one getting sidelined during this crackdown. Resellers are an essential part of the Lego-ecosystem and have a vital part to serve in this big machine of a market.

BigKid

Did they wipe your VIP points? I agree with most that you followed the rules yet they still banned you. IMO the increasing popularity of LEGO has had a lot to do with the secondary market on retired sets. As legomatt stated Mr. Gold just screams resale. Ho hum...


BigKid

LegoFanTexas

Thank you all for your kind words, the support is very welcome, thank you...

To answer a few questions at once...

1. The VIP points are still showing, I do not yet know if I can use them in the store, sometime in the next day or two I'll go over to the mall and try, see what they say. They may or may not care. The manager over there has clearly already been instructed to crack down on resellers based on my last conversation there about a month ago, but that was not a "ban" at the time, it was a lifetime restriction on qty 5 of any one set. But that was then, we'll see what happens when I try.

2. I just placed a single item order tonight for 42000 - Grand Prix Racer, a set that I do want to build and it is marked up at TRU, the only other US location to buy it at. Nothing else in the order, just that (and TMNT keychain they add automatically). Perhaps just a single item might go through, or maybe not, we'll see.

3. I do plan to call both general customer service tomorrow as well as the ITD department and ask what is up. I have no problem not buying for resale from them if they don't want it, it is their site and their rules, but I would like to be able to buy for personal use.

4. Regarding my overall attitude, frankly if this is the worst thing that happens to me all month, I've had a great month. My kids are healthy, my home is safe, this is just a minor road bump. I don't take it personally, I don't think someone at TLG has picked me out to give a hard time to. Life moves on.

Again, the words of support are very nice and appreciated.

samiam391

LegoFanTexas said:

Regarding my overall attitude, frankly if this is the worst thing that happens to me all month, I've had a great month. My kids are healthy, my home is safe, this is just a minor road bump. I don't take it personally, Life moves on.

The correct, and quite frankly wonderful, view of life and the situation. We are incredibly blessed in so many ways, and so often take things for granted. Healthy kids, shelter, etc. are expected by many in today's culture, but are things that many can only dream of having.

Glad to see you are taking the right mindset as well @LegoFanTexas. Even still, I hope TLG takes a little of the pressure off and continues to let you buy regularly from their store, even if only a set or two a month.

legomatt

I know any company has the right to refuse sale, for any reason, but to ban forever? Seems a little vindictive on TLG's part. It seems grossly unfair to have just shut a person out, with no prior warning, AND to offer no means of redemption to even continue the hobby? That plain stinks. If there was never a warning, and never a cancelled order either, how is anyone to know they've crossed a line?
It's just crazy. They'll take your money until, what, we break some unknown trigger-number, or buy one duplicate minifigure/battlepack too many and then bye-bye!?

What next, are they going to send out black chrome 'horse-head' keychains to their enemy customers? :oP

Thank you for being a valued customer... oh by the way, you're banned for eternity for spending too much.

Whaaaaat?!

samiam391

legomatt said:

What next, are they going to send out black chrome 'horse-head' keychains to their enemy customers? :oP

@y2josh- Black chrome keychains? I'd consider it more a blessing :o)

y2josh

^For $100,000 and the right to ban you from my store for any or no reason at all... I'll get you a black chrome keychain. Heck... I'll get you TWO.

bootz

I'm sorry this happened to you, LegoFanTexas. It really is amazing how they view resellers & internet wholesale customers versus B&M specialty retailers. Once they discovered I was internet and not a B&M, their whole attitude changed towards me. And I have been a wholesale customer for 5+ years.

The sad thing is most of those B&M specialty retailers make a large percentage of their revenue selling online. It seems many wholesale industries are still stuck in the 1980s. I know for a fact that many online-only sellers provide superior customer service to B&M stores (large or small).

If you try and explain it to folks who aren't in the industry they can't believe it. Wholesale is the only industry where you have to beg companies to take your money.

HokieJoe99

If LEGO were truly concerned about price gouging from resellers, then they would not have all of these unique or hard to find products such as Mr. Gold, the Comic Con and Toy Fair giveaways or to a lesser extent that one unique minifigure only released in an otherwise marginal set. I'm looking at you, Queen Amidala.

TLG could easily combat the reseller situation by designing and releasing sets that included these exclusives so that everybody would have a chance to get them. They could also re-release older retired sets such as CC, MS, GG, UCS MF, etc. to help drive prices down, but there hasn't even been a hint of this happening.

TLG's actions seem hypocritical to me as what happened to LFT is a direct way to discourage reselling, but their lack of action to drive the market prices down on some exclusives shows that they are fine with resellers selling minifigures for hundreds of dollars.

It seems to me they are only trying to limit the high volume sellers so there will be less product on the market after a set is retired so that TLG will have more control over the product life cycle. The aftermarket prices will be higher, but there will be less supply so consumers will have to make a choice of buying the scarcer retired set for a higher price, or buying the latest set from LEGO.

This seems to be more of a grasp to control the aftermarket supply rather than prices, however we should not rule out that somebody is simply making poor business decisions. I can't believe a company would not want to sell $100k to a single customer especially when the highest priced item that the company carries is $400, but there have been worse decisions made in business before.

dougts

^ it seems to me to be a huge overreaction - and a misplaced one at that - to the late 2012 supply issues. Minecraft was the big one, with Lloyd not far behind. Add in the fact that S@H sold out of many high profile sets early in December and was back-ordered until into January (Winter Cottage, HH, Sopwith, some others). All of this was a huge boon to resellers in December. And all of it was 100% preventable if LEGO had done a halfway decent job of producing and supplying inventory.

The other thing is regional pricing. Hey LEGO, it's 2013, it's a global economy. If you want to gouge buyers in certain locations, don't be surprised if people find their way around it. If someone can buy a $200 set at full retail in the US, ship it to Australia in a box by itself at full USPS rates, pay ebay/paypal fees, make a small profit, and still end up costing the Australian buyer less than LEGO sells it to them for, that's just plain price-gouging. Don't tell me they can't open up a DC in Sydney, ship stuff there by the container, undercut US Ebay sellers and still make a boatload of profit. No one is expecting US prices - economies of scale and all - but 2x US is a bit silly.

VaderX

TLG is getting a bit too big for their britches.

Just a few short years ago they were on the verge of death. Now they are telling fans what they can and can't do with legally obtained product?

Couple that with continued degrading quality and micro managing the secondary market I can only think this will hurt the brand name even more.

Over the last year bricks in new sets have gotten much thinner plastic and a higher p.p.p ratio.

Jabba's Palace has the same "see thru" bricks as the monster fighters sets had.

My only conclusion is all new brick molds will be made to produce the cheapest brick possible. Hello Chinese factory :/

What happened to "Only the best?"

No wounder why my interest in the brick is less and less with each passing month.

tamamahm

It's just crazy. They'll take your money until, what, we break some unknown trigger-number, or buy one duplicate minifigure/battlepack too many and then bye-bye!?

This is why it is so odd to me. It is not the above.

It was
Sure, you can buy from us,
oh wait, we are going to make a new policy,
but it is retro-active,
if you broke it before it was actually a policy, then too bad for you.

It wasn't like LFT actually broke an unknown rule with his order. It was that they are penalizing him for previous actions that actually were considered okay when he did it.

It would be like allowing my child to have a cookie everyday for snack time, and then telling my child, I have decided there is a new cookie rule. I have concluded because you have been eating cookies daily, despite allowing you to previously, you have broken my new rule, and you are never allowed to have cookies again.

LegoFanTexas

HokieJoe99 said:

TLG could easily combat the reseller situation by designing and releasing sets that included these exclusives so that everybody would have a chance to get them. They could also re-release older retired sets such as CC, MS, GG, UCS MF, etc. to help drive prices down, but there hasn't even been a hint of this happening.

This is very insightful actually...

If Cafe Corner was $300, there would be far, far more people willing to buy a copy, but then that $300 would go to a reseller who probably paid LEGO $100 for the set a few years ago.

That $300 now cannot be spent on Pet Shop and Grand Emporium which goes directly to LEGO.

If Cafe Corner is $2,000, there are very few people who will buy a copy, so they ignore it and go buy current LEGO sets.

There is a flaw in this logic however... It works the first time, but not the second or third. Fire Brigade has been kept out way too long for this to continue.

So what happens when FB spends 2 years post retirement at $300? Now that will take sales away from TLG and keep money out of their pocket and put it into mine. So TLG did get the original sale of $150 for FB to me, but will lose out on $300 for Palace Cinima and Pet Shop as that money goes to me instead of them.

HokieJoe99 said:

TLG's actions seem hypocritical to me as what happened to LFT is a direct way to discourage reselling

That is a nice idea, and I'm willing to bet TLG even thinks this might be the case, however it doesn't work that way in the real world.

The only way TLG could prevent this from happening would be to continue to produce sets as long as they are in demand and to do limited edition re-releases to keep the price down and keep those dollars coming in.

If TLG announced tomorrow they were producing 10,000 more limited edition numbered sets of UCS Falcon at a price of $1,000 per set, how long would it take to sell them all out?

I reckon about 30 minutes... $10 Million of revenue for TLG isn't huge, but it would have more of an effect on resellers than what they are currently doing.

Imagine a "special edition" of Cafe Corner and Green Grocer, combined into 1 set, sold online only, 10,000 copies, $499 for both sets. It would crush the value of the current sets in the market and put a lot of people off reselling for fear it would continue.

LegoFanTexas

tamamahm said:

It wasn't like LFT actually broke an unknown rule with his order. It was that they are penalizing him for previous actions that actually were considered okay when he did it.

Exactly...

Black Friday 2012, I had no problem placing 70 orders on LEGO S@H and they shipped every one of them. At my local LEGO store, they were happy to sell me hundreds of sets.

3 months later, I'm told in my local store that I'm limited to 5x lifetime of any set, 2x of hot selling sets, the attitude change is huge.

Now I find I can't buy anything at all, without any further warning or notice. They don't even bother to tell me they have canceled the personal order I placed, they just do it without notice when I'm expecting the stuff to arrive.